[Closed] Vets.

Yup, i feel your pain. I think it's £15 just to write a prescription at mine and you have to pay per prescription.

Do you have any idea how much it costs to run a vet's practice? I was chatting to our vet recently (the dog needed a 12,000 mile service) and was staggered at the amount they needed to generate just to break even. Don't get me wrong, they clearly do very well, but it's not quite as profitable as you might think.

I wouldn't mind but I can be half dead covered in bruises and in obvious pain and get told to MTFU.
Dog limps a bit and it's straight down the vet.

I know my place in the pecking order!

took our cat to the vet as it had lost a tooth, apparently it was a neck lesion and although i had never heard of it it isn't that unusual. Well it isn't that normal in a 4year old cat, but generally.

cost £30 for ten minutes and some anti inflammatory jab.

Speaking to a casualty DR once, he said he wanmted to be a vet, more money and freebies, but if an animal dies its the vets fault,if a human dies, its a reason they where in hospital, and they where ill and got complications.

joolsburger - Member
I wouldn't mind but I can be half dead covered in bruises and in obvious pain and get told to MTFU.
Dog limps a bit and it's straight down the vet.

I know my place in the pecking order!

So you've got a problem with your wife, not the vet then. 😉

A couple of years back our cat came back home severely injured in the middle of the night [2am ish].
We called the vets, who quickly returned our call & asked us to bring the cat to his house.

After he'd examined her, it was clear that there wasn't any hope & he put her down - never charged us a penny

You're spot on, I think a chat is in order. I keep telling her that dogs don't get unhappy or look pensive but she is having none of it. "Look at her face she's so sad" It's a dog woman....

Ok, I'll bite on this one (pun intended)

As mentioned above, do you have any idea how much it costs to run a Veterinary practice? As people's expectations increase, the cost of more advanced equipment and drug stores increase with them. The cost of providing obligatory 24hr cover along with premises etc etc etc all add up.
As a locum I see a big variation in costs (higher in specialist, city centre practices; lower in rural mixed practice, as you would expect) but I would say that, with some exceptions, it's the rural practices that massively under charge rather than the other way round.
Whilst £50 does seem a little steep for a quick visit and a few tablets, I'm sure if you actually saw the breakdown of the fees it wouldn't seem quite so bad.

Unfortunately in this NHS culture, people have lost any value they may have had for health care. For those going to a private GP/Doctor I'm sure the costs incured at the vets seem more reasonable.

And FWIW, in a recent Times Salary study, assistant veterinary surgeons were paid, on average, a similar wage to teachers - and we all know how they're rolling in cash!

My old man is a vet in a small market town, he is now retired and sold his practice to the youger guys, they pay him 150 a day 9-5 to do locum work, apparantly the going rate for locums is 250 per 24 hrs. I think this is crap money considering 7 years training. I think in his last few years he took 45k a year from his business before he sold. This isn't much considering how much risk he took to buy in and invest in it over the years.

Jools I know this was more aimed at your missus than your vet so I'm not having a go at you. It boils my bladder contents when people do nto think about what it cost to run a business and provide a facility that is there when you need it.

Mmmm, I'm afraid I don't have a very high opinion. I used to think vets were marvellous, but not since I've had Missy.

She medicine every day. Government rules state she has to be examined every 6 months. One 'examination' consisted of the vet looking at his computer and asking me questions that he had the answers to on his screen (cost - £34). The other 'examinations' have not been much better. I did some research into the drug she's on and now I have to ask the vet to check her heart and blood pressure. That annoys me as I am paying for their (supposed) expertise.

I can get the medicine much more cheaply online. I need a prescription. I am happy to pay for the vet to write that prescription. But, oh boy, they don't like doing it! And I have to insist every single time that they make it a repeat prescription, which they do with a great deal of reluctance.

Government rules

Not nitpicking, but I'd hazard that it's the RCVS that dictates that she needs to be examined every six months. That's right...Vets are regulated by guess who...yep, vets. It's one big closed shop designed to make as much money as possible. This is highly flippant of course and is written for the purposes of my mate Matt who'll be reading it at some stage. [waves to Matt...Yoo hoo!]

However, there is a flip side. Vets work incredibly hard and often unsociable hours...lots of evenings and weekends. There is a very high suicide rate among the profession (one of the highest I believe). Unless you own the practice, you're unlikely to be making a massive amount of money from it. Overheads are huge. You have to have both skill, knowledge (huge amounts about lots of different animals) and follow all this up with compassion when the time to euthanase an animal arrives.

Karinofnine, check the RCVS website. If you have a problem with a vet, you can complain. They do take complaints seriously. Check how thoroughly their hearings are heard (they're all there for the public record).

If you want to have a pop at a profession for making easy money, try dentists

EDIT: Actually, having reread your post K, just tell them next time you're taking your business elsewhere and let the RCVS know if you're not happy.

[i]Government rules state she has to be examined every 6 months.[/i]

Eh? What is she, and what rules?

There is a very high suicide rate among the profession (one of the highest I believe).

You're not mixing up animal vets and Vietnam vets here are you?

We went to Morzine this year with a load of vets (animal, not Vietnam), and they were mad as a box of frogs, worth every penny just for that in my humblest of opinions. Pay vets more, they're funny.

EDIT to my earlier post. I'm withdrawing the statement about suicide...it may be an urban myth 🙂

Dobermann on Propalin. Is it the RCVS who makes the rules? Oh, well, I still have to go every six months. I wouldn't mind at all if she was getting a thorough examination, in fact I'd LOVE her to have a thorough exam, but to be forced to go only to witness the most cursory exam is irritating to say the least.

When I first got her I decided to stick with one vet, Cuffley Vet Centre, so they would have history with her and she with them. What actually happened was that each time I went we saw a different vet, one of which was a man, despite me emphasising to the practice that Missy had been ill-treated by a man/men and was nervous of them. I've given up on the continuity thing now and am just about to try a new vet in New Addington on Saturday. I have, as usual, told the receptionist why I'm coming and what the drug is. Let's see if this time the vet does some homework [u]before[/u] I get there, instead of umming and ahhing through the appointment, and then asking me to come back (so they get to charge me twice).

I'd charge you at least £30 for 15 mins of professional opinion more if it had 7 years of training to back it up. Vets generally undercharge and making a living is not easy. If you think you are in the wrong buissness retrain.

at a minimum of £3k per year I'm sure you can get yourself sorted

Mikewsmith - I would be delighted to pay £30 for 15 minutes of professional opinion - if that was what I got! That is my point, I tell them beforehand what the problem is, yet when I get there they start looking in books because they don't know, then they dissemble through the appointment and ask me to come back. Why am I having to do the research on the drug and its possible side effects and the things the vet should be looking for - and then have to prompt the vet when I get there!

Does that sound like "professional opinion" to you? It doesn't to me.

I don't think I'm in the wrong business, thank you, but if you think vets are undercharging and finding it hard to make a living, perhaps they are?

Sorry, I don't understand your last sentence, could you rephrase please?

I'd say mike's comments were directed at the OP. (but I'm sure he can speak for himself).

Sorry to hear of your travails though K. I know it's been tough with Missy at times but I'm sure you're doing an amazing job. Stick with it and good luck finding a better vet. 🙂

I fully appreciate the costs involved in running a business. I think £50 for 5 minutes is steep. I, happily, can afford it. I wonder how many animals suffer needlessly because the vets bills are prohibitive.

I wonder how many animals suffer needlessly because the owners don't look in to the cost associated with keeping said pet.

our cat had an infection, I took her to the vets and said "our cat has an infection". He said yes, gave her an injection of antibiotics and told me to bring her back in a week, which i did, he gave another injection. Total cost £125.

Now, I know they are trained professionals, and i know they are hugely skilled, but next time I buying drugs off the internet and doing the injection myself. Could of got a new cat for £125, or better yet some bike vying that wouldn't poo on the carpet and eat from my bowl.

Hmm ok - I thought this may run.

Government rules state she has to be examined every 6 months.

This is true. In order for a vet to prescribe a POM (prescription only medicine) the animal in question has to be "under our care" and seen at "reasonable intervals". Whilst this is a grey area, most vets consider 6 months as the maximum period between checks, in order to ensure the drugs continuing suitability and check for problems. Whilst I understand your frustration with such checks in an apparently healthy and stable animal, it [i]is[/i] a legal requirement.
You say you can get the drugs cheaper online, and yet resent paying for a consultation/prescription. Assuming you do actually want veterinary care within easy reach 24/7, how do expect your local practice to survive. The online pharmacy arguement is similar to that of CRC/wiggle vs LBSs and, if more people use that option, the price of professional time (which is what you're paying for) can only go up to compensate.
I am a little baffled as to why you have to do research on what is a commonly used and incredibly safe drug though - obviously I don't know the individual case and may be missing something but, even if you go to another vets, your full history should be passed on to the new vets and continuity of care should be easily achieved.

apparantly the going rate for locums is 250 per 24 hrs

I would say that is the top end of the scale, and would be for just that - ie 24hrs, working a full day then on duty over night.

I'm withdrawing the statement about suicide...it may be an urban myth

Nope - this has been true for a long time. I guess one reason being the relatively easy access to materials to do the deed etc.

The senior partner in my first job used to take anyone seeing practice there aside (from GSCE to final year vet student) and give them a standard lecture on why they should reconsider their career choice and go be a dentist. 😯

Edit - having said all that, there's no other job I'd rather do. Isn't the world a strange place 😕

meehaja - that does sound steep but again, without knowing the case etc etc.

Assuming your cat gets an infection next time and you want to inject her yourself, I'd wonder where you'd get injectables/syringes/needles and what you'd base your antibiotic choice on? Pedantic maybe but that's like me saying the garage charged me £300 to fix my car - I'm doing it myself next time.....

I'm guessing that I may be fighting a losing battle given your comment on a new cat being cheaper though.

£50 for 5 minutes is steep. I, happily, can afford it. I wonder how many animals suffer needlessly because the vets bills are prohibitive.

Yes that is steep but I'm guessing that's in an urban small animal practice with high over heads. As for vets bills being prohibitvely expensive, if cost is that much of a issue the PDSA/Blue cross do fantastic work.
The decision to own a pet should factor in whether you can afford to feed, house and pay for any treatment that may occur. IMHO

You know that screen that faces away from the client where you pretend to write notes and stuff? That's really you googling the symptoms isn't it? 🙂

OK

For those who don't read the news
It will cost you a minimum of £3k per year to study at University

Like any profession there is good and bad, some more and some less experienced.

As a point of reference how much does it cost (The tax payer not you) if you go to see a doctor?

FBK, sorry, I thought I made my position clear.

Regular checks: I didn't say I resent paying for a consultation nor would I be frustrated at having to have Missy checked every six months IF IT WAS A PROPER EXAM, which it has not been. To get the vets to do anything more than look at her and ask if the medicine is working, I have to prompt them. Further, leaving aside the medicine, she is a Dobe, a breed known to have heart problems yet I have had to ask each vet specifically to listen to her heart. In the past one asked for a urine sample, so now I prompt for that too.

Prescription: I made it clear that I am happy to pay for them to write the prescription. I am unhappy that they do so with such bad grace, and that they have to be asked specifically to write a repeat prescription (still coming under the six-month check period).

It's not the money, I knew when I took her on it was going to be expensive. I just object to doing the research myself!

Incidentally, I can get the medicine via the internet with no prescription at all, but I prefer madam to see the vet because I care about her and hope (but that hope is dwindling) that the vet will pick up any early signs of illness or side effects because of all that training (that gets mentioned whenever you bring up the fees or dare to complain about vets).

Up until Missy I had a high opinion of vets, maybe I've just had a run of bad ones. Let's hope Saturday is a more positive experience!

BTW, by your argument, are you saying that vets use the sale of drugs to subsidise the consultation fees?

My dad was a vet, he had his own practice then worked for the MinAg eventually.

The drugs are very expensive, partly because they are very high quality.

They are paid less than their ' human' surgeon equivalents and the suicide rate is the highest of any profession.
A hard job indeed, very lonely too.

As fbk says, for those who whinge about the cost of a visit to the vets, how much do you think a visit to the GP would cost if there was no NHS ..... a tenner ?

Veterinary surgeons are one of the professions which I most admire. In my experience, vets are highly knowledgeable and extremely dedicated. I never cease to be amazed by their diagnostic skills, specially as the feed back from the patient is obviously very minimal, and they often rely on nothing more than feeling and prodding.

I consider it an exceptionally challenging job, and I can well believe the claim of high suicide rates which I have often heard. It requires on the one hand, for the vet to be somewhat detached and unemotional, so that they can put down animals on a daily basis, whilst on the other hand, feel enormous compassion and concern for their patient.

Added to that, they have to be extraordinary sensitive to the feelings of pet owners, when they need to inform them that there is no hope for their pet, and then deal with the consequence of a devastated owner who often emotionally breaks down.

Vets are worth every penny they earn imo. It's an incredibly hard job which deserves to be highly rewarded.

You know that screen that faces away from the client where you pretend to write notes and stuff? That's really you googling the symptoms isn't it?

Busted 😳

by your argument, are you saying that vets use the sale of drugs to subsidise the consultation fees?

Nope, we're not allowed to do that. But there is profit involved in any sale of goods. Internet pharmacies, due to volume of sales, minimal overheads and no provision of 24hour service, can sell drugs for less then we can buy from wholesalers. Logic dictates that, if vets sell less medication but are still required to provide the same service, they will have to charge more for time. Some may argue this is a fairer way to do things but, as this thread highlights, people are reluctant to pay realistic fees for a consultation etc and the last thing vets want to do is put more people off bringing their animal in in the first place. If you speak to any accountant they will be able to show you how the majority of practices lose money during the average conultation, when all out-goings are considered...

You most certainly can't buy Propalin without seeing a vet regularly as it's a POM. Other meds maybe but not propalin.

I have to concede that it does sound like you may have a somewhat "relaxed" vet currently - a full clinical examination is a given at any repeat prescription check. I would have to question the need for a blood pressure check, urine sample etc every time though. As with any business, you are free to use whoever you chose and as I've mentioned above, it should be straight forward to transfer your details over to a different vet if you aren't happy with the service you've received.

Also, whilst Dobermans are indeed over represented when it comes to heart disease, if you have one without a murmur and without any clinical signs of heart failure, I wouldn't stress too much as it sounds like yours is lucky in that respect. You're right though - it wouldn't heart to have a listen 🙂

ernie_lynch - I'm going to leave this thread on a high, thanks 🙂 . I'm off to bed - 12 hour day again tomorrow 😉

part of resposible pet ownership is to look after the little buggers when there ill , if you think its a price to high, take out pet insurance or dont have any pets, its that simple.

NO. 50 quid for 5 minutes work is too much especially as the cost of the drugs was not included.

6 people in an hour at 50 quid a pop is not bad going. Make a day of it and that's the thick end of 2k a day.

I accept a rural practice will be very different to my suburban experience.

I like that idea above of "obligatory 24 hour cover". When we tried to take in an injured stray to ANY of the vets in the local area none answered phones despite repeated calls, if they even displayed 24hr phone numbers on the outside. We tried 6 of them!

Yes, as I stated earlier, £50 does sound steep for a routine consultation, especially if that doesn't include drugs or any other investigation. Still depends on location - would that be in London?

deadlydarcy - Member

You know that screen that faces away from the client where you pretend to write notes and stuff? That's really you googling the symptoms isn't it?

My fiance's GP does this!!

You must have had a faulty phone/wrong number dave_rudabar. I have never had any problem contacting a vet out of hours on the countless of occasions which I have done so. I once had a cat hit by a car at approx. 9.30pm, after a quick phone call, she was being examined by a vet within 15 mins of the accident (obviously the vet wasn't far away) She survived, but probably only because of speed which she received medical attention.

DR - no idea where you live but, if that's genuinely the case, complaints should be made. Any practice by law, currently has to provide some form of emergency cover 24/7. Even if its via an answering service / out if hours clinic. Whether that's a good thing is another argument.

oops. Double post

FBK is right in the online prescription comparison with CRC v LBS.

You can buy stuff without prescription online but supplying it is illegal so it will come from abroad and it may not be the same formulation, probably not have been stored correctly which can have an affect on efficacy. That is assuming it isn't fake in the 1st place.

Drugs are expensive as vets have to use veterinary products and it is costly for drug companies to test and license them. Human drugs can only be used when no veterinary ones are available. Economies of scale means the vet drugs cost more than human ones.

Any practice by law, currently has to provide some form of emergency cover 24/7.

What I'm sure they don't have to do, is provide free professional advice over the phone. And yet I have on numerous urgent occasions, been given free advice over the phone. Who pays for that then ? And try getting free advice over the phone from another profession .... like say a solicitor !

Errr, no I didn't have the wrong number - the only two that did display out-of-hours numbers outside the premises, didn't answer the phones. Another that advertised a 24hr number in the yellow page (i think it was), also didn't answer.