Not very good.
Had some shoplifting on Tuesday. Phoned our local PCSO. No one there , left a message. Told them we had video of the thieves.
Wednesday saw a PCSO on the street , asked him to look at videos,he told me to phone 101.
Phoned 101 , they said they would send PCSOs. Still no visit. 3 other shops were done.
It's a ****ing joke.
I had a punishment pass the other evening, white van man trying to knock me off. So logged on and filled in a form with details etc, expecting not much to happen. 10 mins later, police called me back for more details and said they'd flag him to be pulled and have a word. Very impressed!
Heard lots of horror stories but have to say personal experience (based mostly on burglary which was admittedly a few years back) has been pretty good. Stuff stolen was small beer in scheme of things but they seemed to take seriously and did what seemed to be thorough investigation over a few visits...
Verdict on the police. The 999 variety.
Massively underfunded and under resourced.Do the best they can under increasingly impossible circumstances.
Have to deal with the effects of addiction and mental health issues that should be probably be dealt with by other agencies who also don't have the resources they deserve.
Leaves them little time to deal with petty crime such as shoplifting.
Our work place was broken into a few months ago - police closed the case within 2 weeks despite us having the 2 scrotes on CCTV jogging up the street with my iMac!
PC involved just said that unless the CCTV was 100% perfect image the CPS would throw any case out with only that as evidence. No forensics where done, sod all basically apart from 'here's your crime reference number'.
Tell a lie - the PC did leaflet drop local houses while he was on nights - I then got loads of old folk moaning at me because they thought they were being burgled!!
I would have thought videos of people doing a crime would make an easy tick for their targets.
Maybe they should prioritise theft over people parking for too long.
Have to deal with the effects of addiction
deal with petty crime such as shoplifting
Same thing innit?
Same thing innit?
Not unless all addicts are shoplifters and all shoplifters are addicts.
An awful lot of petty crime - shoplifting etc is done by addicts. 70% in some areas
My interactions with the police I have always been impressed with the coppers - not so much the system they work in
we would be ****ed without em.
My daughter had her phone stolen I rang 101 with the address it was tracking to. An hour later they rang back to day they’d send an officer around but unsurprisingly the phone had since been unreachable. They visited me at work the next day for a statement and to see if I wanted them to continue with looking into it.
They’re massively under resourced thanks to a certain party making cut backs. They’ll get around to life or death issue in time.
Sorry I am an arse
I think they are brilliant, when you can get hold of one of them, and get through the process. Bit like the NHS
When we were burgled, they were very prompt and took things very seriously, possibly as I reckon we had disturbed the burglars so there was a reasonable chance of catching them (they didn't). Also stayed with me longer than I think they should probably have (in hindsight I was probably in quite a lot of shock / taking it badly) and helped arrange someone to come and board up the window for me.
Not unless all addicts are shoplifters and all shoplifters are addicts.
There's a huge overlap, as TJ says.
One of the big benefits of prescribing hard drugs to addicts would be the reduction in petty crime caused by addiction.
Ours were a gang of 3 girls who rendezvoused with a fourth who stashed everything in a shopping trolley.
Not addicts, scumbags.
My wife was in a very nasty car crash just before Christmas. An oncoming lorry turned right because the driver thought he had enough time to nip into the side street. He was wrong and the missus smacked into the side of him at 40mph. Thankfully, she suffered relatively minor injuries, however she was taken to A&E for a check-up and x-rays to her ankle that turned out to be just badly sprained.
Anyway, my point being that we were a good 5 hours waiting in the treatment area at our local, Forth Valley Royal Hospital. While waiting we watched a seemingly endless train of drunks and druggies being brought in by police officers and no matter how belligerent, or out of their face the folk were, the police officers were treating them politely and incredibly professionally.
One guy was absolutely out of his face on something and was getting louder and angrier by the minute until the officer beside him put her hand on his arm and started explaining to him where he was and how unreasonable he was being. It was a remarkable thing to see the way these young officers managed the situation.
Hats off to them I say, it's not a job I could do, or would want to do, but in my experience the people who do that job are heroes.
What Perchy says, 100%.
Long answer, copy and pasted from a bike trade forum about shoplifting:
If you're unfortunate enough to have a shoplifting problem, or be the victim of theft - the police response will very much depend on what you tell the police when you call. Why is why I've outlined a few pointers which might be of help to some.This information is based on criminal law in England, Wales and Northern Ireland - Scotland may be different as will be Republic of Ireland.
1. When phoning the police, never tell them you have a shoplifter.
In police and criminal justice terms, (courts etc) shoplifters are about as interesting as street drinkers. They're seen mostly as a nuisance (to the police...and courts..) as opposed to real criminals. In the early 1990s when Ken Clarke was Home Secretary, he advocated that shops are businesses and as such should be dealing with their own problems of theft without burdening the already (even back then) limited police resources. When Michael Howard took over as HS he was even more determined that shops should pay for policing and the courts time. Obviously this hasn't happened, but I highlight it here to make you aware of why you'll get a mostly lacklustre response. The police aren't really bothered about your shoplifting problem and the public would be behind them with this view, citing they want to see police deal with problems on the streets/roads, not in some for-profit business.
2. Way to get a better police response is to be aware of the different types of theft offences, which may occur in your shop and as opposed to saying you have a 'shoplifter', you could instead stay you've been burgled or robbed - more likely get a better police response.
The 3 main offences you're likely to encounter as follows:
Theft
Burglary
Robbery.Very often retailers aren't the victims of shoplifting, but of the more serious offences of burglary and or, robbery.
Here's why.
Your shop when open is for the purposes of the public order acts, theft acts, etc - is a public place. A public place is described in law (criminal law) as a place to which the public have access to either by payment or otherwise - Your Shop.
Therefore, if someone steals your stock from the shelves, they commit an offence of theft - S1 of the Theft Act 1968. 4 points are needed to prove theft (i can if if anyone wants go into these later in more detail), however for this post, anything out in the public areas of your shop that's taken is theft.
Burglary -
This is an offence the police will be interested in and more likely to attend as a burgarly clear up/arrest & conviction or plea or caution - gets them points on the magical home office scale for police performance, which I'm afraid modern day policing is all about.
A burglary takes place when the thief steals something that isn't on display in the PUBLIC area of your shop (area where the public have automatic right of access to) - for example, behind your counter, in your staff area/toilet/workshop area - in fact anywhere you have a notice that says -PRIVATE - STAFF ONLY - NO PUBLIC ACCESS.
Many shop thefts are taken from these areas - for example, the scrote taking tools from your workshop area, or the thief leaning over and behind your counter or wandering into the part of your shop that they're not allowed to.
When they take anything from these private areas, its a BURGLARY - not a theft.
A good example of a burglary is where a scrote manages to open up a display cabinet and take some expensive gismo inside - this not a theft - it's a burglary as the area is off limits to the public except for browsing through the glass cabinet. The fact that they'd had to break into the cabinet to get at whatever it is they've taken, makes it more than theft, it's now up the ante to burglary.
Police love arresting burglars as they get big points on that all important Home Office performance scale. Lots of Billy Burglar arrested can mean the difference between a chief constable getting to keep his job, or being binned. On the otherhand, shoplifters don't win points....so little interest there.
Another one to remember is that you can withdraw the invitation to anyone at anytime (obviously you have to have reasonable grounds to do so) but if their behaviour is bad, you can simply ask them to leave. This is your legal right. When you do this, you have removed their legal right to stay in your shop and if they do take anything subsequently from your shop, it's now Burglary as they've no right to be in your shop. Worth noting when it comes to gangs/groups of kids/others - ask them to leave. Be polite, assertive etc, but ask them to leave. if they don't, dial 999 and tell them you're being intimidated by a group/gang who are refusing to leave your shop and are behaving badly.
If they now get aggressive and threatening and take things (doesn't matter if the thing is of low value) they're now in the realms of robbery.
And police arrresting robbers, wins even greater points that the burglars. So again, more likely to attend and deal with the scrotes. Particularly in the London boroughs were robbery is still a key Home Office target.
Robbery -
Or attempted robbery - anytime someone uses or threatens violence in the attempt to steal from you, this is robbery.
If they snatch something from you shop and you attempt to take it back and they hit you/push you/grab it back from you/threaten you - it's all robbery offences. Even if they don't get away with the products, it's still attempted robbery.
This can include actions like being shouted at - or anything that could be seen as intimidating behaviour.
3. When phoning the police/reporting a theft, try and use the magic words - burgarly - robbery - etc to get a better response. A good way of getting around to burgarly is to say that you're not sure where the scrote has been in your shop and it may well be, he/she has been in your private staff areas/workshop and taken something there.
Regrettably, we're now living in a society where points really do win prizes. As I said earlier, the authorities are not interested in shoplifters and phoning to say you have a shoplifter is never a good idea. Instead, look at what's acutally happening/happened and see if you can up the ante before you call the police.
Make sure you have adequate notices in your shop clearly setting out what areas are PRIVATE - STAFF ONLY - this is vital. Without these notices, you can never prove the offence of burglary as otherwise all of your shop is actually a public place. Yes, a scrote shouldn't be in your workshop or staff toilets etc, but without the signs, it makes the police's job far more difficult and they will resort to the easier, but lesser offence of theft.
Finally, theft employee -
For the purposes of the UK criminal justice system, theft employee is classified as a major crime as it involves a serious breach of trust in addition to the offence of theft. Therefore, the starting position for Home Office charging guidelines, is that usually theft employee is not permitted as 'cautionable first offence'. Normally, it's straight to court, no ifs and buts.
However, If you have an employee steal from you and you phone the police, the police will expect you to be able to show that the employee is not allowed to take things at random and has clear guidelines in his/her contract of employment. Therefore if you allow your staff to take items from your shop and pay later (many of us do), its unlikely if you ever catch your staff taking items without your consent or knoweldge that they'll ever be prosecuted as their defence will be they're allowed to take stuff and pay later. Under these circumstances, you'll be advised that for police purposes, the matter will be recorded as civil dispute - therefore up to you to try and get recompense via the civil courts.
Thin Blue Line
Pigface
Member
Sorry I am an arse
that's my uncle behind the drums...
Massively underfunded and under resourced.Do the best they can under increasingly impossible circumstances.
Have to deal with the effects of addiction and mental health issues that should be probably be dealt with by other agencies who also don’t have the resources they deserve.
Leaves them little time to deal with petty crime such as shoplifting.
Pretty much this.
Agree with PP. Underfunded, under resourced, too many conflicting demands and political pressures.
See also: prisons, probation services, education, the NHS, social services.
A local village shop had a similar shop lifting story in November, and effectively shamed the Police into taking action by releasing CCTV images on social media when the Police told them they did not have the time or bodies to use the tapes. Not the fault of the officers, but a sad reflection of the way they have to work and prioritise.
I would say though that having democratically elected Police and Crime Commissioners does give us an option to potentially influence what they do. Ours does seem to put himself up in front of the public at meetings and listen to the public's concerns. While I'm not a fan of the introduction of PCCs, I'm looking forward to getting to a meeting and asking why I have to risk my life every time I go out on the roads due to the lack of adequate policing and sentencing
My lad went missing one evening this week. He’s 9 years old, autistic , severely learning disabled and non verbal. But he know which key unlocks the front door. We keep all our keys in a locked safe..... we can only assume he used my mother in laws key, who was visiting at the time.
He left the house in heavy rain, no shoes, no coat....we live 5 mins walk from the coast. I was convinced our very worst fears were going to be realised.
We called 999 and they dispatched two vans , four officers and they were on the scene in 15mins.
He was found just over a mile away safe and well, if a little wet and upset. They gave my little girl a spin the police van to pick her brother up. I can’t fault them...they couldn’t have done any more for us. They were liaising with the coastguard to task a helicopter when they found him.
I don’t know what outcome we’d have had if he’d turned left out of the house towards the sea, instead of right but based on their actions, I’m completely indebted to them.
Underfunded, under resourced, too many conflicting demands and political pressures.
And Teresa May (Cons, Home Sec) decided to cut 20000 jobs... and we wonder why we rarely see any police on the streets, in plod cars or actually doing anything. And the lyinblohard pops up with "I'll create 20000" jobs. Yeah right, thats just an outright lie.. but you knew that all along.
Example:
St Ives, nearest Plod station?
Have a guess, whilst you are at it have a guess at how many police they have at their disposal to cover the area.
Hayling Island/Havant/Portsmouth had 1 Sgt and 4 "bobbys" covering the whole area for 18mths.
So, it's no wonder the police are polite and hard working because they know only too well that whoever we see one we're both surprised and pleased at the same time. Its not their fault they're understaffed, blame this government..
But you voted them back in so expect more of the same.
Not sure the political point needed making as I think we are all aware of it. And I'm ****ing sick of people saying "you voted them back in" because I didn't, and campaigned actively to discourage anyone else from doing it
We called 999 and they dispatched two vans , four officers and they were on the scene in 15mins.
Proper prioritisation working there, a serious case given the proper resources immediately. Very glad he was found safe and sound.
Massively underfunded and under resourced.Do the best they can under increasingly impossible circumstances.
This^
Sad fact of life is that shop lifting is pretty low on the priority list and that's not the fault of the police. They're stretched fairly thin as it is, and as drunks and druggies can get violent pretty quickly, their time inevitably gets taken up babysitting them folks in society that can't behave themselves and everything becomes about them.
Grab a hold of one, phone triple nine and tell them you're going to murder them, they'll send all sorts for that and you can report the shoplifting while they're there*
(*don't do this, unless you give us the heads up and we can all come round and watch)
Individual policemen and women are generally brilliant. It's the fact there aren't nearly enough of them, and they seem to spend a lot of time doing pointless paperwork and hanging around in court.
The ones I've known are just as frustrated by the lack of resources to investigate crimes as the general public. In fact more so in many cases.
Proper prioritisation working there, a serious case given the proper resources immediately. Very glad he was found safe and sound.
Exactly. While it must be frustrating and upsetting for you OP there can be something very serious going on that means your missing chocolates aren’t a high priority.
Another that agrees with PP on this. A close friend quit the force last year due to the stress involved (she worked in a rape unit). The resource issues, lack of funding and bureaucracy involved were the final straw.
Exactly. While it must be frustrating and upsetting for you OP there can be something very serious going on that means your missing chocolates aren’t a high priority.
The shop the has just opened up near us lost £5000 of stock. That could force them to close. These thieves must be on the cop radar. My video would help get them off the streets.
The attitude of the PCSO I spoke to on the street stinks. He's more than happy to give out parking tickets. Surely it's not unreasonable to expect him to do the police bit of his job and get my videos in the system. I'm sure a traffic warden is cheaper than a PCSO.
overstretched and need to prioritise, as others have said they arent just a police officers anymore, and its the usual parento rule 80/20.
my most recent experience, reported some scroats riding noisy motorbikes on a cycleway and public areas with no helmets drinking large cans of caffeine or cider/lager and smoking joints.
with a total disregards to joe public, even to say endangering the life of said joe. (cyclists, walkers, horseriders etc..)
chopper was out, a few pandas, they all got rounded up a few weeks later by the offroad dirtbike police team and i've since heard a few bikes have been scrapped.
the wife was lucky not to be seriously injured, and it was pleasing to see the police response..
As I say it must frustrating and upsetting but there can be many things going on that means they haven’t got around to visiting your shops yet.
The shop the has just opened up near us lost £5000 of stock. That could force them to close.
Yep, low priority, no threat to life nor physical harm to a person.
I realise that the shop keeper may not see it that way, but given the constrained resources its the right call.
My wife was hit by a driver trying to escape the police in October.
It's not an underestimation to say that the first aid they applied at the scene saved her life or at the very least prevented her from being paralysed.
Every interaction we have had with the police subsequently they have been professional, helpful, caring and I have nothing but praise for the job that they do.
Like the vast majority on here I believe they are underfunded and completely overstretched and any gripes I have are seen through those lenses.
Matt
Bunch of idiots. If they're under-resourced, maybe try not to waste so much time on this sort of ****
Ally, so glad your wee star is okay, lump in throat stuff.
Bunch of idiots. If they’re under-resourced, maybe try not to waste so much time on this sort of ****
Don’t worry that’s a different department.
@footflaps - there may be an option to get them to 'have a word' on the prompt of the report. I reported an unsafe close pass (could have held oy arm and touched the car). On phoning 101, they asked me to go to local station to give details, I had the option of 'flag for when they see him' (which might have given them a shock right enough) or to 'phone / call round and have a word'.
I elected for the just phone him now option, and they' did that, phoned me back the next day and had elicited a "sorry, didn't realise was so close, will take better care in future".
Having had first-hand experience recently of dealing with them for the safety of my 15 year old cousin I can safely say that they are brilliant at what they do when they have the resources available to do their job. I occasionally have contact with them through work too and only once have I met a bad copper who was looking for any excuse to not do anything. Thankfully their colleague was much more helpful. Considering the pressure they work under with few resources and the real possibility of being injured or (thankfully rarely) killed while working I'm amazed we have so many willing to do the job.
Massively underfunded and under resourced.Do the best they can under increasingly impossible circumstances.
100% this - also hamstrung by red tape. If I had an emergency situation and needed them, I'd have little faith that they would be there, but ultimately a problem with the system.
24 years in the job next month....
It's comforting to read so many accounts recognising the pressures that policing is under due to years of under funding and neglect.
I think that on the whole we do still get the big stuff right. In fact I think we're getting it right more than we ever did before.
The "small" stuff however, that's what's suffered. Get your business shoplifted, your car damaged or god forbid your bike stolen and we're god damn useless. We've become an administrative process in order to give a crime number to victims so that they can claim on insurance.
I had my own small business before I joined the job shop so I really understand how the o.p feels.
I find it hard to accept that the majority of cops don't care or can't be bothered to deal with thefts etc but the reality is that we are spread so thinly now that there really is little choice.
I’m amazed we have so many willing to do the job.
It’s the donuts...
Totally agree Bregante, not that I'm in a position to have an informed view.
I realised the situation about 5 years back; went to get in my car to go to the gym after work (parked at the side of the road). Strolled up, looked over, it had been completely written off, whole back end caved in. I had a note explaining the make, model and colour and half of their numberplate. Police couldn't do a thing without it being on CCTV.
Do PCSOs give out parking tickets? I thought that was council wardens?
Quite a few years back when I took a break from reality shall we say, they were absolutely professional when they arrested me. Dealt with me fairly, professionally and looked after me in custody until I could be placed somewhere more appropriate. Since that darker period I've had a few professional interactions with them and again, nothing but professional. I have a few former colleagues now in the police, they are top drawer people and are having good second careers.
Huge respect for the job they choose to do and the work they do to keep people safe. Their resource constraints border on criminal.
Do PCSOs give out parking tickets? I thought that was council wardens?
This particular one has a scooter with PCSO written all over it. Previously I've asked him to monitor our crossroad as cars go through on red lights while pedestrians are crossing on the green man. ( a schoolgirl was knocked over while supposedly safe to cross, so there is a real problem. Apparently it's a council problem FFS.)
He always says he doesn't have time. All he ever does is write parking tickets.
Well, just reading a few replies on here to the OP’s situation.. seems like they are happy to accept the current shortage of police and their response to the OP’s situation.
And that my internet friends is what you are up against.
Pointing out the problem with Police resourcing doesn't mean we accept it or are happy about it
Well, just reading a few replies on here to the OP’s situation.. seems like they are happy to accept the current shortage of police and their response to the OP’s situation.
No one has claimed they’re happy with it.
seems like they are happy to accept the current shortage of police and their response to the OP’s situation.
Citation required. If you can smell crap, it's because you're holding the wrong end of the stick.
One of my best mates was a coppoer, he was quite senior in Merseyside police
He's no longer a copper and has a low opinion of the police, tho he blames lack of resources for their problems
But the ultimate reason he left was over some Line Of Duty level corruption that got covered up, depressing stuff
Hes now a crime & rehab consultant or something
Kimbers. Stab in the dark but are your mates initials MB?
It's interesting, for me. I'm a massive capitalist and believe people should be rewarded if they own/lead companies. At the same time I think it's shocking what early stage police/nurses/paramedics/even doctors get paid. Why would you study for 7 years to work a genuinely hard job to get paid less than if you just got a job in finance?
That has to be wrong.
We have friends who own a shop in Epsom (4 miles away) and they were hit by the same people who did us. They must be doing the whole area.
My experience with one of Lincoln's 'finest' has certainly coloured my view.
Being man-handled by an oaf in uniform - for no good reason.
Good news is....it didn't end well for him following complaint to PCC and chief constable.
Definitely sounds like they may be preying on east targets, hopefully they’re caught soon.
seems like they are happy to accept the current shortage of police and their response to the OP’s situation.
No one on this thread has said that.
Shoplifting is rife down here in Torquay. On several occasions , whilst in sports direct ( yeah , yeah I know that’s a crime in itself 😁), I have watched guys stuffing stuff up their tops, in their bags etc. I just told the guy on the door what they had done, and left it up to them to sort out. None of my business ? Perhaps ? It just pisses me off when I see it happening in front of me.
There are tradesman getting their vans broken into and their whole livelihoods stolen , thousands of pounds at a time, and yet it appears the police do not have the “resources” to investigate. Just hand out a crime number and that’s the end of it.
So these gangs are getting more brazen , doing it in broad daylight, attacking people who try to intervene. Clips all over you tube / face book. One particular gang using the same mondeo for getaway, stealing anything from tools , to doing over a courier van . All in broad daylight. Jesus , i had a rear brake light out and I got stopped for that, yet this lot are driving round in a car with a smashed back screen.
I would just post your cctv on social media. If you can get stills of their faces, print off a couple of wanted posters. It would probably put you in the wrong , but it could also highlight the total unjust of the system.
My local police have been brilliant in dealing with an on-going issue I have with an ex with mental health issues (she basically hears voices winding her up that I'm doing various things either against her or people she knows and then pays me a visit).
Even before she started damaging my car and house they insisted I call 999 rather than 101 whenever she showed up and the response has always been quick (I think the longest was about 20 minutes but that was on a Saturday night). I have called 101 instead a couple of times (when she's not done any damage on a visit but I still need to log it officially) and that's sometimes a bit odd (e.g. get a text from them at 2am a few days later asking if it would be convenient for them to call me to discuss) but I guess it's just someone working through a night-shift dealing with a backlog of calls.
The paperwork seems insane but their systems seem to be modernising at least (the last time I was able to upload CCTV to their web-site and they used it in interview a couple of hours later).
Not once have I got the impression they weren't treating this whole mess seriously (even though every time it's been different officers responding) even if I'm a bit embarrassed myself at times with taking up their time when I assume they've got more serious stuff to deal with. I also don't envy them having to deal with so many mental health related cases these days, must take a huge amount of patience and understanding
Had my bike stolen last year under full view of city centre Cctv cameras. The guy who does this is very well known and has been nicked with a shed load several times..
Phone call from plod "when was bike stolen"
"not sure between 9 @ 5"
"Ohhh its policy, we don't have resources to review footage longer than 2 hours"
Me "Well just fast foward till it's not there anymore".
Long mute pause " No sorry it's policy"
It seems to me there is very much a postcode lottery on this sort of stuff.
I had a scooter that some scrote attempted to steal - cop response very good including trying to get fingerprints off it ( apart from they carted it off to their pound and that cost me £105 to get it back!)
I had an attempted theft of bike parts - again good response
3 road rage incidents - good response including review of CCTV
I reported noise in the office below me at 3am that I thought was burglers. cops here within minutes, turned out to be cleaners!