I am absolutely obsessed with these, and considering no-one else will talk to me about it I thought it best that I should start a thread on here lol.
So what do people think? Bernie is currently inching ahead, amazingly enough, which would set up a far left versus far right show down at the US presidential election.
Pete Buttigieg doing so well is also very interesting seeing as his political cv is so thin, as is how Joe Biden's support seems to have collapsed (although he is expected to do much better in South Carolina). And with Michael Bloomberg set to join on super Tuesday at the beginning of March with all of his megabucks ($300 million spent so far) it's all to play for really!
I believe they call them Elementary schools over there.
Spoiler: Trump wins.
Bernie will get screwed out of it again, the Democrats are as self destructive as Labour. Pete B will never be president because nobody knows how to pronounce his surname.
I like Elizabeth Warren, Super Tuesday will be very interesting to see how much ooomph Bloomberg has.
I don’t think it is a given that Trump wins but he has to be favourite which is a tragedy.
I like Elizabeth Warren
She tried a BS smear on Bernie, and it backfired.
Gabbard would probably be my choice, but she seems to be going nowhere, and hasn't been tested in the debates yet.
Hilary has gone full on mental accusing everyone who isn't a corrupt corporate centrist of being Russian assets.
Bernie is currently inching ahead, amazingly enough, which would set up a
far left versus far right show down at the US presidential election.landslide for Trump, in the Corbyn/Johnson fashion
She tried a BS smear on Bernie, and it backfired.
That’s politics for you.
landslide for Trump, in the Corbyn/Johnson fashion
I'm not so sure, Bernie is a match for Trump for when it comes to firey rhetoric and maybe that is what it takes to beat him
They're pretty exciting aren't they!
Bernie will get screwed out of it again, the Democrats are as self destructive as Labour.
Maybe, the 'problem' with Bernie is that, like Corbyn his popularity comes from the fact the opposition has lurched so far to the right, if it comes down to a Bernie v Trump election can he gain the middle ground? His policies are very radical by US standards and believe it or not, Trump has huge or (Yuge) approval ratings with republican voters and republican media outlets. The Democrats can't rely on a low turnout amongst Republicans and certainly not on taking votes from them.
He's given a boost by the likes of Joe Rogan endorsing him, he's no where near Bernie's base but has cited his consistency and honesty. It gives non-Lefties (or insecure American men) an excuse to vote for him. Of course, Lefties being Lefties at lot of them have decided that Joe is a horrible person and they should have never taken his endorsement - that old keeping the ideology pure problem.
Anyway, he's got a much better chance than Corbyn did, the Democrats won the popular vote by millions last time around, they were just in the wrong place, and Bernie, should he be nominated is probably a better candidate than Clinton was
Bernie definitely doesn't represent the mainstream establishment, he's an outsider like Trump, which would nullify Trump's 'drain the swamp' shtick
Which of sanders policies makes him "far left"?
Which of sanders policies makes him “far left”?
The 'Mericans consider him on par with Chairman Mao.
If he wins the nomination, then it will a landslide for Trump.
Fascinated by Andrew Yang after reading his book "war on normal people" as well as Andy Sterns "raising the floor" both advocating a UBI.
Yang has a very progressive and tech focused approach which is a breath of fresh air. Obviously the bulk of Americans dont get the concept...
I don't find it particularly interesting but that's probably cos I've never really understood how it works.
I get that in a Simon Cowell X Factor type process they are working their way through the contestants to find out who the two finalists are but can someone provide a simple guide to how this works e.g. why do they only go to certain states and in which order (and why that order)?
I was surprised that Kamala Harris didn't gain enough traction.
As for who's left in the race - Biden is turning into a no-hoper, Warren isn't getting much support, Buttigieg doing well so far, Gabbard getting praise for coming 3rd in NH, Sanders out in front but would be a dreadful nomination.
So, where from here?
Bloomberg to crash into super tuesday but won't be enough for nomination; Biden, Warren & Gabbard out; two horse race between Buttigieg and Sanders.
If Buttigieg, how long before trump and his acolytes go down the gay hate route?
If Sanders, trump gets another term.
The sooner the caucus system is totally replaced, the better.
If Sanders, trump gets another term.
Known as ‘doing a Corbyn’, I believe.
If Sanders is the candidate then the Democrats might as well pack up and piss off.
If Sanders is the candidate then the Democrats might as well pack up and piss off.
Conventional wisdom would very much be in agreement with you, but it may be worth considering that this was very much the Republican's opinion of Trump, and we all know what happened there. Personally I see Trump and Sanders as being, in many ways, two sides of the same populist coin. Not that Sanders is doing so without integrity, of course, he has that in spades
Fascinated by Andrew Yang after reading his book “war on normal people” as well as Andy Sterns “raising the floor” both advocating a UBI.
Yang has a very progressive and tech focused approach which is a breath of fresh air. Obviously the bulk of Americans dont get the concept…
He was very interesting! Shame he's out already, a victim of a very busy field maybe
Sanders is viewed (as above) as very "left wing" in the US where socialism is a dirty word. Like him or (as most of us do) loathe him, the US economy is doing well under Trump and removing him will require a candidate that unites the democratic party and Sanders is not that. Personally I think that Bloomberg makes a lot of noise and never gets anywhere in the primaries. I suspect Buttigieg will run out of money and Bernie will get the nomination unless the democratic party unites behind another candidate. Lots of democratic party people remember the last time they put up such a "left wing" candidate, McGovern vs Nixon in '72. It was one of the largest landslides in history. Remind anyone of Corbyn vs Johnston....
Personally I see Trump and Sanders as being, in many ways, two sides of the same populist coin. Not that Sanders is doing so without integrity, of course, he has that in spades
The difference being that left wing populism has to try to convince people to ‘love’ people they may have no instinctive reason to.
All that right wing populists have to do is convince people to hate other people that they have no logical reason to.
In the modern world I know which is easier. It was probably always this way.
why do they only go to certain states and in which order (and why that order)?
The order, timing and processes are as random and disordered as you would expect from 50 young nations that were forged at varying times (and with varying degrees of willingness) into a single federation. Recently there has been a push for states to hold their primary as early as possible so that they have more chance of influencing the final nomination- hence so many primaries occurring on the 3rd of March (or 'Super Tuesday'). Some states are allowed to have primaries in March, I'm not sure why, but this is carefully controlled. It's also worth noting that the order tends to change a lot too, so each primary season is a bit different to the one before
The difference being that left wing populism has to try to convince people to ‘love’ people they may have no instinctive reason to.
All that right wing populists have to do is convince people to hate other people that they have no logical reason to.
In the modern world I know which is easier. It was probably always this way.
Populist socialism has never had any difficulty im getting elected in the rest of the Americas, so maybe it's the US's long overdue turn
Populist socialism has never had any difficulty im getting elected in the rest of the Americas, so maybe it’s the US’s long overdue turn
It has had a jolly difficult time staying in power, though.
The leaders usually end up having accidents that often lead back to US agencies or their proxies.
Bernie = Trump Victory
gobuchul
Member
Which of sanders policies makes him “far left”?The ‘Mericans consider him on par with Chairman Mao.
I get that, question still stands though.
American perceptions, much like over here, of left and right, don't really make much sense in reality! 😆
Do you have to be a registered democrat/ republican voting in their primaries? What's to stop a load of republicans voting for a no hope democrat candidate to get them on the ticket?
Go to berniesanders.com/issues/ to see his policies.
Some are "very left wing"*. Medicare for all, eliminating medical debt, tax on extreme wealth...
*for America
The difference being that left wing populism has to try to convince people to ‘love’ people they may have no instinctive reason to.
All that right wing populists have to do is convince people to hate other people that they have no logical reason to.
It's not always the case, the left can stir up hatred with the best of them - Bosses, the Rich, 'cheap foreign labour' etc.
It's possible, if his campaigning and speaking is good enough. But I don't know if it will be.
However, he won't hold back against Trump in the debates as Clinton did. It looked like she was persuaded not to be too aggressive in the debates when she clearly could have torn him apart - presumably because her team thought men didn't like aggressive women.
Gabbard getting praise for coming 3rd in NH,
Klobuchar, not Gabbard.
I'm in the 'Bernie can't beat Trump' camp, although I'd probably vote for him if I were American.
I have a feeling that only Bloomberg or perhaps Warren can do it, the former of which is a sad reflection on the state of US politics.
If the Democrats don't select Bernie then they're making a big mistake.
If they do select Bernie then yeah there are echos of Corbyn vs BoJo but Bernie is a far far more credible politician than Corbyn was (or at least how he acted in the months before and during the GE). Corbyn tried to fluff his way through not taking a decisive stance on things he knew were controversial (or at least what his advisers had said were controversial) but in the end that just gave the public the view he was shifty, hiding something and couldn't be trusted. Played right into Cumming's socialist demon narrative. That and the fact the UK election was essentially fought over a single issue, there's a bit more to the US one.
Bernie on the other-hand is being far more open and IMO has a much better track record
That said I still think he'll likely lose to Trump. It's not just the people that might be worse off under Bernie (paying a bit more tax) that won't vote for him it's the disenfranchised masses swallowing the populist crap that won't vote for him either (even though they'd be much better off with Bernie as President)
If he does manage to win I really hope he gets control of the Senate as well otherwise it will be another wasted opportunity, like the start of Obama's presidency.
I think Bernie Sanders would be great for America - his "far left extreme socialism" as it's been painted is pretty much UK Lib Dems as far as I can tell.
I also think that the distrust of anything vaguely "socialist" in America will make him unelectable. I fear they need to find a Democrat equivalent of Tony Blair to beat Trump, basically something not quite as right wing and mad that the waivering voters can get behind
Which of sanders policies makes him “far left”?
I guess you've got to work out what's central in the US, until recently at least their centre-left (Democrats) were roughly aligned with centre-right (Tories). Bernie is a Democratic Socialist which makes him more Corbyn than Blair which represents a two place move to the left for Democrats (by UK standards of left and right). To a lot of Americans who grew up being fed propaganda that Communism was evil and Socialism is just a step away that's a big leap.
"Socialist" is an insult in the USA. Even with more moderate people.
Bernie has absolutely no chance.
IMO the American system is a joke, Hilary got one million plus votes than Trump and still lost. It’s hardly what you would call democratic. Same as FPTP. It is there system though and I can’t see them changing it soon.
What are the odds on Trump trying to go for a third term by changing the rules?
What are the odds on Trump trying to go for a third term by changing the rules?
I can definitely see him trying to do this!
martin hutch - yeah, meant klobuchar; too many names so thanks for the correction.
martin hutch – yeah, meant klobuchar; too many names so thanks for the correction.
Apparently this year saw in excess of 250 hopefuls putting themselves up as potential presidential material. Crazy!!!
"More than 270 candidates who have not met the criteria to be deemed major candidates have also filed with the Federal Election Commission to run for president in the Democratic Party primary.[28]"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries
I fear they need to find a Democrat equivalent of Tony Blair to beat Trump, basically something not quite as right wing and mad that the waivering voters can get behind
Which is what Labour need here (again) too. But that's a different thread...
Bernie may have a better chance than Corbyn did here. There doesn't seem to be a Brexit type massive issue over there at the moment, Trump somehow failing to start WW3 despite trying. Americans are, as a rule of thumb, better at change than us and the Democrats won the popular vote by some margin - was it a technicality or a brilliant bit strategy than won it for Trump? who knows, but it will be a tough trick to pull off twice.
Challenges, apart from the Obvious, his age - Trump is largely resting easy at the moment, playing Golf, Tweeting shit, getting a cheap spray tan. Bernie and all the other hopefuls are campaigning at full speed. Once whoever gets wins get nominated the big race starts straight away, it's months of long days and lots of travelling. They'll be tired before they start. The Pace started to show on Clinton last time, she fell ill, the US being the US they had to pretend she wasn't, it looked crap, credibility out of the window.
They've lost the 'fear factor' Trump will have served a full term by then, the Democrats have thrown the kitchen sink at him, but he's largely unscathed. Leading up to the last election he was the pantomime baddie, if he got in it would have been WW3, he would have enslaved half the population, and bankrupted them - but none of that happened.
True, the incumbent always has an advantage. It's been quite rare for a president not to get a second term...
if he got in it would have been WW3, he would have enslaved half the population, and bankrupted them – but none of that happened.
I'd go one step further and say that Trump should get a Nobel Peace Prize for sacking John Bolton. 😀
Buttigieg has suspended his campaign! I'm guessing to make way for Joe Biden. I wonder if Bloomberg will do the same?
Warren needs to drop-out to and support Sanders, otherwise the DNC/super-delegates are going to shaft him
The Democrats are going to do a Corbyn and Trump is going to get a second term.
Idiots.
Funny how the Guardian expressed a visceral hatred for Corbyn and yet is forever extolling the virtues of Bernie.
Seems a lot of folk saying that Sanders would have no chance against Trump on here. Inside my leftie social media bubble I'm seeing a lot of 'evidence' that he would stand a good chance (random example here: https://twitter.com/ryanstruyk/status/1231611469667721216?s=20)
I'm genuinely interested to know why people think that it would be a Trump shoo-in against him other than 'he's left wing and America doesn't like left wingers'.
Also please no 'Bernie is USA Corbyn'. Other than both being a bit leftie, they're vastly different characters working in vastly different systems.
I feel Sanders and Biden are just too old,they have missed their chance.
Andrew Neill saying on Twitter that Trump is now the youngest male candidate left in the US Primaries. Eep.
The Democrats are going to do a Corbyn and Trump is going to get a second term.
Idiots.
Very much this.
Also please no ‘Bernie is USA Corbyn’. Other than both being a bit leftie, they’re vastly different characters working in vastly different systems.
When asked if they've learnt anything from the electoral arse-kicking Corbyn just received, Democrats come out with statements exactly like that.
Unfortunately, while they would love that to be the case, it isn't. Far from it. Whatever the delusional, lefty liberals think, the majority of the UK and the US voters would take one look at them, then tell you that Corbyn and Sanders are indistinguishable from each other, and are just a pair of old commies who would be a threat to national security, and they'd never, ever vote for them.
Sanders selection as candidate would be met with the same unbridled jubilation in Trumps campaign team as Corbyns election was greeted in Tory Central Office. Because they'd know full well that the election has just been gift-wrapped for them the same as Joris Bohnsons was gift-wrapped for him by Magic Grandad over here.
Its going to be a huge Trump landslide. The biggliest majority ever.
Inside my leftie social media bubble I’m seeing a lot of ‘evidence’ that he would stand a good chance
The exact same mistake the 'lefties' made here.
‘he’s left wing and America doesn’t like left wingers’
You may want other reasons but that is by far the biggest, most compelling and likely.
The retreat from responsibility and reality by 'the left' in the UK and US is dismal.
The retreat from responsibility and reality by ‘the left’ in the UK and US is dismal.
'The left' concluded after the financial crisis that the electorate would now reject neo-liberal capitalist economics and embrace a more socialist future
The very opposite has happened and instead the electorates have opted for populist nationalism and economic isolationism and protectionism as an answer instead.
The left still refuse to believe this can be the case, so has decided to bury its collective head in the sand, stick its fingers in its ears shouting LA-LA-LAAAAA-WE'RE NOT LISTENING, ignore the huge mountain of evidence that voters simply aren't interested in socialism (as they just don't believe in it or its evangelists) and will just never ever vote for it.
Bernie Sanders selection would just confirm this further and the democrats will get their Corbyn moment, and like Boris, Trump will get his whacking great majority.
Depressing
The left still refuse to believe this can be the case, so has decided to bury its collective head in the sand, stick its fingers in its ears shouting LA-LA-LAAAAA-WE’RE NOT LISTENING, ignore the huge mountain of evidence that voters simply aren’t interested in socialism (as they just don’t believe in it or its evangelists) and will just never ever vote for it.
It brings to mind the USSR in the 1970s and early 80s. Even as their economy was falling apart around them, some of the ridiculous old dinosaurs (Breznev, Andropov, Chernenko) were still trying to convince others (and most likely themselves) that 'just a few more years and the capitalists will start their inevitable war amongst themselves'.
Meanwhile 'the West' just kept a watching brief, got on with their own stuff and said 'told you so' when Gorby had to start dismantling their system.
Sure, the very end 89-91 happened quicker than a lot of people expected, but the writing was on the wall (literally in Berlin) for a decade or more.
The dems are screwed whoever they choose t o be honest,
Sanders = "He's a commie" smear campagin
Anyone else = "Hillary #2" smear campaign
Which is why Trump doesn't care.
I wondered why this thread mattered and now it makes sense
"Public Enemy have fired founder member Flavor Flav following a dispute over the group performing at a Bernie Sanders rally, bringing to an end one of the most colourful partnerships in rap history."
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/mar/02/public-enemy-fire-flavor-flav-clash-bernie-sanders
Noooooooh booooooooooy
