[Closed] US Ambassador Killed in Libya?

Oh dear if this is true!!!

A lot of 'I told you so', I imagine...

http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2011/09/16/usnato-engineered-%E2%80%98regime-change%E2%80%99-libya-brings-radical-islamists-forefront

Perhaps they should do a bit more regime shuffling to see if anything friendlier turns up.

I don't know who to feel more irked with - the stupid people who'll kill for some perceived insult to a dead bloke or the pillocks who make the insult in the first place knowing the reaction previous efforts have had.

Either way, it's desperatly sad that anyone dies as a result really.

So basically a case of protesters protesting against a film that infers that some followers of their religion are prone to intolerance and violence show intolerance and inflict violence on a completely unrelated person to make their case.

Libya now appears to be a failed state with no effective government. I would expect the general lawlessness to continue.

Its telling how blind these fundamentalists are to the concept of independent thought, that they somehow think the entire American nation is collectively responsible for the work of an individual, who happens to be a US citizen, banging something silly on Youtube

Depressing 🙁

[i] they somehow think the entire American nation is collectively responsible for the work of an individual[/i]

I do think in a lot of countries there is the perception that only things that 'the state' approves of are allowed to happen.

The concept that the governement of a country might decide to let its citizens make their own decisions about what they publish on YouTube is anathema.

Whats equally as worrying, when it comes to Islamic nut-jobs, is [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/channel-4-cancels-controversial-screening-of-islam-the-untold-story-documentary-after-presenter-tom-holland-is-threatened-8125641.html ]this[/url], also in this mornings news

Their violent intolerance, which essentially amounts to fascism, is effectively leading to self-censorship, for fear upsetting people who are, at the end of the day, just a bunch of ****ing psychopathic nutters

Or the leaders of the extremists (put into government by the US) are quite cleverly using the simplest method to rabble-rouse against their desired target.
Rabble rousing is quite easy. The pitchforks come out on here often enough.

Next few weeks will be interesting, given that the response will be an election issue in the States.

Just be thankful that there is a Democrat in the White House or they’d be using this as a basis to invade Iran later this week.

Demonstrators say the $5m film, called The Innocence Of Muslims, insults the Prophet Mohammed.

It apparently depicts him as a fraud, showing him having sex and calling for massacres.

Speaking by phone from an undisclosed location, writer and director Sam Bacile remained defiant, saying Islam is a cancer and that the 56-year-old intended his film to be a provocative political statement condemning the religion.

So he appears to have fulfilled his wishes.

As above, Obama under massive pressure from his own right wing loonies, will be many calls for retaliation.

Not sure how you retaliate against an angry mob though...

Lets look forward to some well-informed and well thought-through, objective comment from the Republican party representatives on Fox 'News'.

Should be a gift for Obama this one

Not sure how you retaliate against an angry mob though...

Bomb Libya ?

It's not a gift for Obama. It's a total nightmare. He has to respond ruthlessly or lose the election.

The reports suggest the ambassador died from suffocation. This raises the possibility that he has been strung up from the nearest tree. US public opinion (particularly swing vote opinion) is going to demand one thing and one thing only.

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[i]reports suggest the ambassador died from suffocation[/i]

I understood he was trapped in an armoured car that was on fire 🙁

[s]Bomb[/s] Ban Libya?

Or they could blame Iran and cut the Israelis, with their fingers hovering over the button, loose...

[img] [/img]

Would never have happened under that nice Colonel Gaddafi. The US had been getting on slightly better with him in recent years, before the opportunity to put a load of unknown loons into power and make some money presented itself.

double post

either way...|

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The official said the ambassador and three other staff were killed when gunmen fired rockets at his car."

sadly this comes down to polititcs in the US its a gift to romney and unles obama can appease the baying nutters in his own country then it could cost him dearly in the election

IMO these kind of anti US actions are a symptom of a deeper malaise in the populations of these countries. For joe Muslim public things are probably unchanged for the most part, no jobs, high food prices and now no one to blame but the people they asked for so they go for the easy and obvious target.

Its telling how blind these fundamentalists are to the concept of independent thought, that they somehow think the entire American nation is collectively responsible for the work of an individual, who happens to be a US citizen, banging something silly on Youtube

Or is it the fact that your ordinary member of an angry mob has no access to retaliate against the producer of the video whilst the Embassy was just down the road?

whichever... it essentially amounts to "OI!!! DID YOU CALL MY IMAGINARY FRIEND A PUFF?!!!"

Stupid beyond rational explanantion

Can I just remind everyone of [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/can-social-networking-sites-be-used-to-insite-and-organise-civil-unrest ]this[/url] thread?

No you can't

whichever... it essentially amounts to "OI!!! DID YOU CALL MY IMAGINARY FRIEND A PUFF?!!!"

Stupid beyond rational explanantion

And they have been continuously murdering people in Libya for being black, which has nothing to do with Islam, is equally "stupid beyond rational explanation", and is rarely, if ever, reported by our news providers.

It doesn't take much to get a rag-tag mob of restless, disgruntled blokes to form a posse and carry out acts of violence, whether in the UK or abroad.

Throw in a bit of offence to the surprisingly sensitive followers of an omnipotent deity and it escalates rapidly, with 'taking offence' becoming compulsory. Add a few weapons supplied in the past to these chaps by "the West" and watch it all escalate around the world. (Young lads in other areas seeing it as a good excuse to have a good riot and burn a few flags, no need to have seen or read the source of offence.)

Come to think of it, I'm amazed that such things have never happened in any other countries of strategic benefit to "Western interests" that have had democracy enforced upon them..... Oh hang on on a minute.

Who'd want to be the US President during this mess?

What they will now need is a target that is a [i]threat[/i] to the "Western Way/Free world" that isn't actually [i]too much[/i] of a threat. The US State department and the Republicans will now be browsing wikipedia and Google maps in attempt to find somewhere suitable.

this isnt the first and won't be the last, that Romney guy will be secretly pleased.....

What we need is the overthrow of a previously western-inclined middle eastern government, and the subsequent establishment of an Islamic Regime with access to loads of (real, not imagined) WMD's

But thankfully that could never happen. Oh... erm...

Maybe, due to the disturbances in Libya, Syria (being vaguely in the same region of the world, albeit on a different continent) will now receive the benefit of a visit from Uncle Sam and maybe the donation of some anti-aircraft missiles in an attempt to spread more democracy and act as a [i]calming [/i]influence on the Middle East in this election year? By the time it all kicks off against the liberators somebody else will have to manage the situation.

ps. This is quite an interesting book in places:
[img] https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ2vzl56Ia_VbTg2qsb7uqYKZqMgF7gyxhImhBuXAfkCAlZudyL [/img]

This is one of the side effects of "regime change", instability.

I am personally surprised that the ambassador would travel relatively unprotected, particularly that he would evacuate an embassy which was being attacked and that the embassy itself wasn't more able to withstand such an attack.

So a bloke who identifies himself as an Israeli Jew, albeit a Californian property developer, gets finance from about 100 Jewish donors to make a film that insults the Prophet Mohammed, and the American Embassy gets attacked for it.

I've just popped over to a few rather right-wing US military forums and they are going a bit more mental, but largely they are saying "you shouldn't be using Islamic groups to overthrow dictatorships."

Perhaps one day the US will look at who their long term friends are and how much grief they have caused them, and hop out of their bed.

American foreign policy = my enemies enemy is my friend

It has been for years, yet they appear constantly startled to discover that it might be slightly more complicated than that

Makes me wonder why the Church of England does not take the same approach to being insulted. Nick Clegg would be in trouble today with his bigot comment. I mean it would not be the Arch Bish on his way round to the Liberal Party offices but I reckon a group of old ladies who have come to do the Sunday flowers could hide some seious weaponry amoungst the carnations and roses.
There would be none of that "you can't ware your cross at work" stuff, not when you realise that the cross could be driven into your scull.

And people are amazed that atheists are getting a bit more vocal?

It's looking increasingly like decent, representative liberal democracy has just been a short, happy blip, a convergence of circumstances that may not happen again.
We were the fortunate few to experience it, might as well enjoy it whilst it lasts.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/2012/06/how_to_kill_a_rational_peasant.html ]How to kill a rational peasant[/url]

Good article from Adam Curtis about how the US Military revived the tactics that failed in conflicts from Algeria in the 50s through Indo-China in the 60s until they were finally abandoned in the 80s. It's called 'counter-insurgency'.

Hmmmm. The original theory of "Counterinsurgency" seems very similar to our own "hearts and minds". A strategy which has worked in operations for decades. NOt one which was employed in any form in Libya though, not sure what the connection is?

Is Anokdale still over there?

"hearts and minds". A strategy which has worked in operations for decades

It's worked when broadcast on British and American TV, not sure it's worked in any real way on the ground where its meant to.

Who'd want to be the US President during this mess?

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i can haz oval office kthxbai

wrecker - Member
not sure what the connection is?

Well people have been discussing the wider region and scenarios so thought I'd chuck it in.

Hmmmm. The original theory of "Counterinsurgency" seems very similar to our own "hearts and minds". A strategy which has worked in operations for decades.

eg?

Started in Malaya IIRC. Used extensively by "smaller" units. Very much different to the US heavy handed approach to civilians.

can there be a better sight for humnanity [and god] and a demonstartion of the tolerance of religion that the three children of Abraham [ chrsitain, jew and muslim] doing this ...madness.

Stores for further evidence when told I have to tolerate religion

oh and this is worth repeating

wwaswas - Member
I don't know who to feel more irked with - the stupid people who'll kill for some perceived insult to a dead bloke or the pillocks who make the insult in the first place knowing the reaction previous efforts have had.

Either way, it's desperatly sad that anyone dies as a result really.

wrecker - Member
Started in Malaya IIRC. Used extensively by "smaller" units. Very much different to the US heavy handed approach to civilians.

Lots of debate eg [url= http://www.defenceviewpoints.co.uk/articles-and-analysis/hearts-and-minds-malayan-campaign-re-evaluated ]here[/url] about the effect the 'hearts and minds' campaign actually had on the communist defeat (compared to other tactics), any other examples?

Isn't killing an ambassador and trashing an embassy/consulate technically an act of war under international law? Having said that it wasn't state sponsored.

No. I see where you're going with this and I CBA with an argument.
Well done for finding a link which perpetuates your opinion though.

Nuke the middle east, its a hole anyway....we'd be doing the world a favour.

Then tell African states to get their houses in order or they'll get the same treatment....

....see, international politics is easy.

Having said that it wasn't state sponsored.

You know for a fact that no Benghazi governmental structures were involved in the attack ?

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8861608/Libya-Al-Qaeda-flag-flown-above-Benghazi-courthouse.html ]Libya: Al Qaeda flag flown above Benghazi courthouse[/url]

wrecker - Member
No. I see where you're going with this and I CBA with an argument.
Well done for finding a link which perpetuates your opinion though.

Wasn't difficult to find, just typed 'hearts and minds malaya' into Google and the front page is about 50% articles called things like:

[url= http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/malaya-the-myth-of-hearts-and-minds ]The Myth of Hearts and Minds in Malaya[/url]

Well done for just stating something as fact then running away when asked about it.

It doesn't exactly have a proper state does it? I doubt their government has the wherewithal to carry out such an attack. Funny how a seemingly well planned attack took place on the anniversary of 9/11 though.

It's true that Libya does not appear to have a proper functioning government. But there are structures which the US, UK, etc, recognises as being the legal Libyan government.

Well done for just stating something as fact then running away when asked about it.

I'm not running away, I just can't be bothered with your usual bullshit.
I know you'd love to spend an afternoon frantically googling so that you can win at the internet. Frankly your opinion means less than nothing to me and as such, I CBF to try to prove a point to you. bye.

I'm voting for deviant to replace Kofi Annan.

When are the elections?

I doubt their government has the wherewithal to carry out such an attack.

Wouldn't it just require supplying personnel and weapons ? How complicated was the attack ?

And the people now in power in Benghazi have managed a few previously successful military operations. That's how they managed to achieve power.

Frankly your opinion means less than nothing to me and as such, I CBF to try to prove a point to you. bye.

Oh FFS here we go with conspiracy theories. Ernie give it a rest.

American diplomats die at the hands of a baying mob of religious nuts. This is not the fault of America, still less the people who lost their lives.

And Lifer, what the hell are you on about. Malaya! What?

I dont really see any conspiracy theories even from ernie

the west helped arm the militias, now the war is over the country is full of machine guns and rpgs just like those used in the attack on the embassy

its all depressingly familiar

mcboo - Member

Oh FFS here we go with conspiracy theories. Ernie give it a rest.

WTF are you on about ? Do you even know yourself ?

I haven't made any "conspiracy theories".

I have simply suggested that no one is in a position to be certain who was responsible for the attack. Although apparently you seem to think you know ?

Perhaps you can enlighten us and also let us know who was behind the attacks in Tripoli a few days ago mcboo ? Since you're clearly so well informed.

Like you I've got no idea. I dont go making idle speculation though.

I dont go making idle speculation though.

What, and I have ?

bwaarp claimed : [i]"it wasn't state sponsored"[/i]

To which I responded : [i]"You know for a fact that no Benghazi governmental structures were involved in the attack ?"[/i]

Explain how this constitutes "idle speculation".

I provided a link to the Daily Telegraph which showed Al Qaeda's influence in the Benghazi institutions.

Furthermore a couple of weeks ago Sufi Muslim graves in the centre of Tripoli were bulldozed in a sectarian attack. The Libyan interior ministry has been blamed for this and security forces stood back watching and doing nothing.

No one can say with complete certain whether any attacks in Libya do or do not involve government agencies or members of the security forces. The situation there is extremely chaotic and violence widespread.

Storming a foreign embassy, who'd do that?
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This all seems to be getting a bit silly now

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19602177 ]British and German embassies stormed in Sudan[/url]

What on earth has it got to do with us and the Germans? They're an angry bunch, these Islamist, aren't they? Do you think its something to do with the whole beard thing?

They're like the collective version of those beardy blokes who drink Special Brew and shout at buses. I'm just wondering whether supplying the middle east with loads of Special Brew would calm or inflame the situation.

Might be worth a try

So in retrospect, it seems it was yet another well planned Islamo-Fascist attack on Westerners, on September 11th no less.

I pick a side and I choose America.

[img] [/img]

They're like the collective version of those beardy blokes who drink Special Brew and shout at buses.

singlespeaders?