[Closed] Unreasonable on the classifieds...?

How did you pay?

I wouldn't refund until i'd got them back.

Neither would any online shops.

How did you pay?

PayPal. But I wouldn't go down that route as I'm not worried that I won't get a refund, my point is I've obviously taken an element of risk in this transaction, which has broken down through no fault of my own, so surely it's only fair that the seller reciprocates...?

I've never experienced this before and it seems pretty unreasonable.

Seems fair to me. You wouldn't say to CRC can I have a refund and I'll send you the stuff back after would you?

Loddrik - have posted on your wanted thread. Can help you out if your seller is being a dick. Email me if interested in the tyres.

HoratioHufnagel - Member

I wouldn't refund until i'd got them back.

Neither would any online shops.

I'd only refund upon return of goods personally.

When I've sold stuff on Fleabay that's usually my stated policy. Otherwise you run the risk of refunding and then the goods not being returned.

Sounds quite reasonable to me. Though if the buyer made a fuss about it I'd probably just refund them.

When I've sold stuff on Fleabay that's usually my stated policy. Otherwise you run the risk of refunding and then the goods not being returned.

In the same way that I've paid my money and risked the goods not arriving.

Im the seller here and not just a classifieds one. Been on here for ten years

I was led to believe the tyres, Specialized Eskar Armadillo Elites, were 2Bliss by the bike shop I bought them from, even supplied pics of them. Posted them out after payment on Monday the next morning and recived a email yesterday saying he wasnt happy. Offered full refund on reciept of the tyres back, by paypal and immediate which I still think is reasonable.

I would not expect to be treated any differently if it was the otherway round

Not really sold anything on the classifieds so not sure what the etiquette is. However I'd expect to pay and have the goods sent, then get a refund on return. Same as if I was buying from anywhere else really. Is this not the done thing?

[quote=mrblobby ]However I'd expect to pay and have the goods sent, then get a refund on return. Same as if I was buying from anywhere else really. Is this not the done thing?
You'd have thought so. I can't really see why this is even up for discussion, especially with a long-standing forum contributor.

With me, you'll get a refund when I have the items back in my hand, and I am satisfied they are in the condition I originally sent them to you.

If it's a genuine mistake on my behalf (posting wrong item to you - I have done that before), then I would also refund the postage for the return.

I don't think that's unreasonable?

Im the seller here and not just a classifieds one. Been on here for ten years

I was led to believe the tyres, Specialized Eskar Armadillo Elites, were 2Bliss by the bike shop I bought them from, even supplied pics of them. Posted them out after payment on Monday the next morning and recived a email yesterday saying he wasnt happy. Offered full refund on reciept of the tyres back, by paypal and immediate which I still think is reasonable.

I would not expect to be treated any differently if it was the otherway round

I'll return the tyres and get the refund, but we won't be doing any business again. I've show good faith in you as a seller, which hasn't quite worked out, yet you aren't prepared to return the show of good faith.

Maybe I'm just overly picky but trust should go both ways...

And I was deliberately not naming names.

Given the seller has been on here quite a while and isn't just a classifieds dweller, I'd be inclined to post back and refund the tyres when received.
Although its a fair point of loddricks that he pays on trust, why cant the seller refund on trust. But its like who hangs up first on a lovey dovey phonecall isnt it. 😆

I'd tend to go with the 'refund once they're back with me' approach unless I 'knew' the buyer.

Particularly with anything that could be damaged by the ham fisted trying to fit it...

[i]if your seller is being a dick[/i]

My apologies 😳 😀

Well at least you didnt use the female equivalent to describe them.

Why not meet half way?

You could send one tyre back, but request a full refund, then send the other tyre when the moneys come through?

I don't see this as clear cut as 'refund on return'.

In this case, through no fault of Loddricks - he has been sent something that he didn't buy. Why should he be out of pocket (albeit for a few days) when all he is asking for is the same level of trust that he was prepared to show the sller?

Something similar happened to me with a tent I bought, they refunded immediately and arranged a courier. In fact, Wiggle did the same thing with some shoes I needed for a holiday.

EDIT - as they are both long time forum users, I would definately refund now.

Receipt on return of goods seems sensible to me. Generally, the answer to "don't you trust me?" is, of course, "no." (-:

However, both posters have accounts that are several years' vintage, little reason to believe either are scammers. So assuming both are honest traders, there's more scope for problems arising from the shipping of goods. Wanting to ensure that you've got back exactly what you sent out, in the same state, would seem prudent to me.

Morally / ethically the buyer is probably correct with the 'show of trust' angle. However, does it really matter in the grand scheme of things? Sounds like a point-scoring exercise to me, sorry.

Why not meet half way?

You could send one tyre back, but request a full refund, then send the other tyre when the moneys come through?

Sounds like a point-scoring exercise to me, sorry

I didn't want to name names...

its a grey area, both of you appear to be intransigent. Personally I try to always be on the front foot in the honour karma stakes.
Either of you could be an awesome seller/buyer, or just a normal ok ish one. Does the seller not understand the buyers position?
Does the buyer not understand the seller?

Wouldnt it be better if the tyres an payments just crossed in the post because both of you were honourable?

The seller did not send the item until after they received payment. I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect that they would not refund until after they received the goods.

The fact that paypal was used seems to negate any argument of trust (unless there was no other way of payment). It is not something which is needed if there is trust.

Seems fair to me for seller to wait until goods or returned before releasing cash, just as it's fair for seller to receive the cash before posting.

I'll also go as far to say I'd vouch for Tracey being an honest person, one of the nicest people I've had the pleasure to meet.

The only thing unreasonable here is that you both ruined a potential witch hunt. Much ado about nothing. For the record, I'd give the refund right away - the wrong product was supplied.

However, both posters have accounts that are several years' vintage, little reason to believe either are scammers.

Did WatsonTony ever stump up those refunds?

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm not accusing either of the protagonists on this one of being scammers, just querying the logic of the quoted statement in general, given the WatsonTony and iDave situations.

edlong - Member

However, both posters have accounts that are several years' vintage, little reason to believe either are scammers.

Did WatsonTony ever stump up those refunds?

I assume Loddrik's correct in saying that they're not 2bliss and therefore not the right item (it's not like spesh to go easy on the logos, so I'd expect it to say somewhere)

[b]IF[/b] that's correct, I'd give an immediate refund (to a forum regular) to include return postage. If we're on the "questioning trust" aspect, then that might have to be enough for Lodders to send by a traceable service

(mind, I did once post an item to a regular before receiving the payment to then get shafted with paypal fees and receive less than agreed, so what do I know ?)

loddrik - Member

Bought some tyres from the classifieds

Next time buy from a shop.
HTH.

If it was my mistake and the buyer was known on here i'd refund straight away, including postage.

If it was my mistake and the buyer was known on here i'd refund straight away, including postage.

Ditto, and I have done several times when I've cocked up my descriptions.

😳

Hmm...an honest mistake by the seller and I wouldn't expect a refund until I'd sent back the goods if I'm honest. I might however expect my postage is refunded as well, but that ones up for debate and a risk you take when buying secondhand.

I'm more astounded that Tracey doesn't know the entire specialized product range inside out, given the amount of times i've seen her entire fleet posted up here 😉

And to the OP, if you are after tubless specilized tyres I have an eskar and a ground control i'm looking to get rid of. Definitely tubeless 😀

i think bot positions are reasonable tbh and i would probably refund you

That said if they wanted to wait and they were a long termer then I would post back]]As you used paypal really why do you care you will get your money back whatever you do

I would trust both parties involved here tbh and it seems a genuine error

Put yer pitchforks away and go ride

I'm with Tracey on this but all told with prompt posting this could all be solved with tyres returned and money refunded by tomorrow couldn't it?

no-one's been scammed
no-one's denying responsibility

I'm totally at a loss to why you'd even start a thread about it TBH.

I wouldn't refund you until I had received them back,nor would I expect to be in your scenario.

So no, they are not being unreasonable. It's a few days at most. Mistakes happen sometimes.

I assume Loddrik's correct in saying that they're not 2bliss and therefore not the right item (it's not like spesh to go easy on the logos, so I'd expect it to say somewhere)

IF that's correct, I'd give an immediate refund (to a forum regular) to include return postage. If we're on the "questioning trust" aspect, then that might have to be enough for Lodders to send by a traceable service

This. The onus is on the seller to provide the correct description in the first place and, yes, we all make mistakes. I've done this myself so offered to refund and pay return postage.

Edit: I would refund before receipt of item as a goodwill gesture.

Next time buy from a shop.
HTH.

Eskars aren't the easiest tyre to get hold of since specialized stopped making them.

[i]Next time buy from a shop.[/i]

Wow, a genius in our midst.

Mods: Shut down the classifieds.
Cyclists: Take all your unwanted stuff to the tip.

cheers all.

A few more people to add to "the list" here.

🙂

I think you all need to get out more

I think you all need to get out more

Said the guy on the internet.

Said the guy on the internet.

😉

acidchunks - Member

Eskars aren't the easiest tyre to get hold of since specialized stopped making them.

Considering the OP hasn't managed to get hold of them, I'd say my point still stands. 😉

DezB - Member

Wow, a genius in our midst.

Mods: Shut down the classifieds.
Cyclists: Take all your unwanted stuff to the tip.

cheers all.

Ah, sarcasm. There's a saying about that... 😉

Drac - Moderator

I think you all need to get out more

Said the guy on the internet.

I'm actually on my iphone half way up Ben Nevis. Just stopped for a quick pee and a check of STW (usually I check STW when sitting in the disabled toilet at work having a dump).
Anyway, battery about to die. Tally ho

Just stopped for a quick pee and a check of STW

FFS enjoy the views and step away from the Internet you are outsid eenjoy it and forget about us

I'm actually on my iphone half way up Ben Nevis. Just stopped for a quick pee and a check of STW

That's actually worse.

waaaay worse

Then to check for replies too. 😯

edlong - Member

However, both posters have accounts that are several years' vintage, little reason to believe either are scammers.

Did WatsonTony ever stump up those refunds?

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm not accusing either of the protagonists on this one of being scammers, just querying the logic of the quoted statement in general, given the WatsonTony and iDave situations.

Posted 4 hours ago #Report-Post

I can confirm that Watsontony has not refunded one penny to all three of his good faith 'victims'! 👿 . Did start a thread with updates to warn peeps off dealing with him but it got locked down pretty quick, some children being, well, childish got it locked.

Does it work like this. The buyer can claim money back from paypal if things go wrong, so no risk. But if the seller refunded the money before getting the goods back he's got no come back and can loose money and goods. Is that right ?

Eskars aren't the easiest tyre to get hold of since specialized stopped making them.

I've got a pair.
Folding, 2Bliss ones they are.
Good tyres too.

And for the life of me I can't remember who it was that messed me around when I was selling a pair of wheels a while back....

I think I'll go check my posting history.

Oh yeah. I remember now

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/should-i-have-a-rant/page/2

yossarian - Member
no-one's been scammed
no-one's denying responsibility

I'm totally at a loss to why you'd even start a thread about it TBH.

Yep.

Oh yeah. I remember now
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/should-i-have-a-rant/page/2

Clown alert!!

Lets be honest, we both know I wouldn't deal with you if you were trying to give them to me...

But hey, let's not drag another thread down to your level.

Loddrik, how much did you pay?