Today one of my lecturers issued an in class MCQ examinations, you get four choices of answers.
Out of 26 questions.
1 of her answers was totally wrong.
1 of her questions was so badly worded it didn't make sense.
3 questions were effectively trick questions who's choice of answers were open to interpretation - eg "What's the most important aspect of evidence based medicine..... data or patient care" Errrr data because you can't give patients good care without good evidence. That's the whole point of EBM. Her answer was patient care, apparently I'm on a nursing course not a Med Stats course.
1 question had two answers that were exactly the same.
I was very very close to interrupting her feedback session on the exam with a torrent of abuse, it seems a few felt the same way.
To top this off the exam was negatively marked.
The appeals process is really slow and utterly ridiculous as well, so has anyone else got any advice as to what else I can do? Should I kick up a stink with heads of departments? Vice-chancellor? Or will this work against me?
I'm not surprised you feel this way.
Seriously, I'm starting to really ****ing hate people.
Idiots everywhere.
The lesson to take from it is that everyone, no matter what their position, makes mistakes. That lesson will serve you well in healthcare.
The second lesson to learn is that clubbing people over the head with their mistakes is not going to encourage them to admit their mistakes. Another lesson that will serve you well in healthcare.
If she was actually a nurse or doctor though, this would amount to misconduct. As she's a lecturer who's employed for research and has to teach to fulfill her requirements, she'll get away with being a lazy asshole.
You seem to have a somewhat unrealistic view of how healthcare actually works, and when you get out of university and into the real world, I suspect you will be even more outraged.
Tee Hee.
[s]
The appeals process is really slow and utterly ridiculous as well, so has anyone else got any advice as to what else I can do?
NO
Its like moaning about your boss it is very tempting and they are often wrong but ultimately it is futile.[/s]
EDIT:
If she was actually a nurse or doctor though, this would amount to misconduct.
She really needs to hear this from someone who has yet to gain a medical qualification,probably needs some swear words in it as well.
PS film it so you can show the uni how right you were
She was probably a very good nurse or doctor before going into academia - probably wouldnt have got the research job without being so.
Today one of my lecturers issued an in class MCQ examinations, you get four choices of answers.Out of 26 questions.
[s]1 of her answers was totally wrong.
1 of her questions was so badly worded it didn't make sense.
3 questions were effectively trick questions who's choice of answers were open to interpretation - eg "What's the most important aspect of evidence based medicine..... data or patient care" Errrr data because you can't give patients good care without good evidence. That's the whole point of EBM. Her answer was patient care, apparently I'm on a nursing course not a Med Stats course.
1 question had two answers that were exactly the same.[/s]
I didn't understand 6 of them
Do you have a class or course representative?
I was one for my final year in uni. They usually have the ear of a person that can help. It also is a formal route which you can fall back on if needs be down the line.
Take this one all the way to the VC lad. Sub-par multiple choice test - heads will roll.
You seem to have a somewhat unrealistic view of how healthcare actually works, and when you get out of university and into the real world, I suspect you will be even more outraged.Tee Hee.
It's also the fact that I'm directly paying for a service out of my own choice....I'm a customer here. But hey whatever.... you guys would be annoyed if you had paid for a bike and it came with a giant dent in it.
didn't understand 6 of them
I can tell you that was definitely not the case. The lecturers English, is errrr not exactly very good.
Know your place!
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bwaarp - MemberIt's also the fact that I'm directly paying for a service out of my own choice....[b]I'm a customer here[/b]. But hey whatever.... you guys would be annoyed if you had paid for a bike and it came with a giant dent in it.
Customer? If you are customer then go elsewhere with your money. Customers are always lied to so do you want to be treated as customer?
Yes, if I were buying for a bike I would go elsewhere ... plenty of choices.
I can tell you that was definitely not the case. The lecturers English, is errrr not exactly very good.
Yes, but the top brain surgeon in the world, if I am not mistaken, is a non native English speaker. Are you attending English literature lecture or something else? The latter only English needs to communicate.
The whole point of evidence based medicine is to improve patient care. What's the point in gathering data if you dont use it to improve patient care?
[i]I'm a customer here[/i]
...and the customer is always right... 🙄
The whole point of evidence based medicine is to improve patient care. What's the point in gathering data if you dont use it to improve patient care?
The question wasn't why is evidence based medicine important. It was, whats the most important aspect of evidence based medicine?
Now you can give your patient all of the best fluffy wuffy wuv holistic healthcare in the world but it won't be evidence based if it doesn't have good data to support it. This was a question designed with no other intention than to catch people out.
whats the most important aspect of evidence based medicine?
And patient care is still the answer.
Question is probably designed to see if you focus on the patient or the science.
Question is probably designed to see if you focus on the patient or the science.
You can't give patients the best choice or possible care without knowing what actually does offer them that in the first place.
Evidence based medicine is important in improving patient care. "Aspect" implies what is important in achieving this goal (good patient care is the goal not the underlying important processes).
OK - why are you gathering data?
As I said, that's the goal....the endpoint. Not what is relevant in achieving that outcome using EBM methodology.
It was a semantics question that had no place in the exam.
Not to mention there were then more mistakes in the exam, that were quite clearly mistakes not semantics.
[i]You can't give patients the best choice or possible care without knowing what actually does offer them that in the first place.[/i]
Oh you really are in for a surprise...
Go look up the history of Xigris for a start, and consider that this this was used across the world, at about £5000 a go for a number of years...
It's stuff like this that led to the Staffordshire scandal. 😐
The lecturers English, is errrr not exactly very good.
The lecturer's English is, errr, not exactly very good.
Next you'll be telling me that we shouldn't use techniques for which there is very little evidence after the evidence based techniques have failed.
To go off on a wee tangent. I work in physio - most of the conditions people go to a physio clinic for have strengthening exercises as the technique with the most evidence. But in my experience friction massage and ultrasound is more effective than strengthening - this goes for most of my physio colleagues too. Do we forget about non-evidence based techniques or do we concentrate on techniques that improve the patient's condition?
Drotrecogin alfa was a failure in decent data!
Next you'll be telling me that we shouldn't use techniques for which there is very little evidence after the evidence based techniques have failed.
Yup, that would be correct. If data can't support it, it shouldn't be used - especially if there are significant sides.
To go off on a wee tangent. I work in physio
Oh god. You weren't the Chiro were you?
Paying for education = customer ... 😆
It's stuff like this that led to the Staffordshire scandal.
Data helped uncover the staffordshite scandal.
EBM is a methodological technique, that is all. It's not some fluffy human concept like "care".
I care about patients but me caring doesn't make my EBM techniques any better. Good data does.
Yup, that would be correct. If data can't support it, it shouldn't be used - especially if there are significant sides.
How do you gather data from which to build new evidence without giving patients care?
Data helped uncover the staffordshite scandal.
Maybe if staff hadn't been preoccupied with gathering data they would have had more time to spend on caring for patients.
[i]Drotrecogin alfa was a failure in decent data![/i]
Nope.
The data was excellent, the problem was that the data was inconvenient, and therefore ignored. The world isn't black and white, data isn't simply numbers on a page, healthcare isn't simple and getting grumpy about a test solves nowt.
The world is much more complex...
Treat this as a positive thing. Feeling ignored and maddened with rage will help you develop empathy with what your future clientele are experiencing.
No, the pharma company had good data. Everyone else (Cochrane) realized they didn't, hence why meta-analysis is becoming ever more important in EBM.
That was a failure in EBM....specifically to much credibility being given to RCT's.
[i]No, the pharma company had good data. Everyone else (Cochrane) realized they didn't, hence why meta-analysis is becoming ever more important in EBM. [/i]
But the company used various techniques to sell their product, which ignored the data. I've still got Lilly pens in my locker from the big marketing push...
You will learn that data is much less important than money...
That didn't effect anything to do with EBM did it....EBM is not a physical thing that can be touched. It was a failure in basic human compassion and care.
But the company used various techniques to sell their product, which ignored the data. I've still got Lilly pens in my locker from the big marketing push...You will learn that data is much less important than money...
Lying about/misrepresenting something is a failure in care yes, but it was also a failure in EBM.
RCT's cannot be trusted by themselves, they need rigorous meta-analysis to cut through the bias.....as I said, failure in EBM.
[i]they need rigorous meta-analysis to cut through the bias[/i]
Unfortunately, this seems to occur [i]after[/i] the sale of such things...
No comments on the video?
Unfortunately, this seems to occur after the sale of such things...
Hence why data analysis needs to be improved, not (in this case) patient care.
More rigorous trialing of drugs with data collected from multiple independent labs and a subsequent meta-analysis of this data could have prevented this.
No comments on the video?
Nope, didn't data analysis help to spot the problems at Staffs?
Didnt excessive data gathering cause part of the problem at Staffs?
[i]More rigorous trialing of drugs with data collected from multiple independent labs and a subsequent meta-analysis of this data could have prevented this.[/i]
Indeed.
However, someone has to [b]pay[/b] for this...
The lecturer's English is, errr, not [s]exactly[/s] very good
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Just perhaps if those failed managers at stafford failed hospital had spent more time on patient contact instead of tick box questionaires, then people wouldnt have died or suffered all for the sake of a score on a piece of paper.
Not a massively useful contribution I'm afraid, but I've been at Evidence Live this week.
Big emphasis on patient care being considered as part of EBM.
Pesky double post.