Our latest tents - TN Voyager and TN Solar Photon have both been of the superlite types - the solar photon especially so with what is the thinnest and lightest materials I have seen in a tent. The Voyager has had a very tough time indeed and so far the fabrics have held up - I expect several years service to come despite use outside its brief. The only let downs have been zip failures. We have never used footprints.
The big issue for me is UV degradation which is unavoidable long term. It's lessened by a) only using in scotland 😀 and b) not using superlite tents as basecamps in the alps, for example. An earlier Voyager I owned years ago changed colour dramatically after a sunny fortnight basecamping in Austria, and went very crispy. Nowadays I either suspend a tarp over the tent for shade or use a cheap decathlon type tent in those circumstances
In general I have a number of what used to thought of as unthinkably light and thin shelters and garments, and they have all lasted extremely well and beyond any expectations I had of them. This is especially true of superlite waterproofs but the same applies to tents. Personally I would be more concerned with the quality of manufacture and the warranty/customer service reputation of the manufacturer than with the materials per se
Thing I found is that a 2 man lightweight tent is really a 1.5 man tent.
I had a nallo but that was a four season tent and needed good ventilation.
How about a hilleberg anjan, a three season tent with better ventilation than a nallo? Expensive and not ultralight though.
I personally wouldnt trust an ultralight tent in poor conditions. I once had a terra nova voyager superlight, very lightweight tent but very flimsy ad well. Id prefer the extra weight for better piece of mind.
For roomy solo cycle touring I’m erring towards buying the 1.5 version of this Trekkertent.
Very light.
I've got one and thus far it has been superb. A little fiddly to pitch well to begin with but you soon get the hang of it. I haven't been out in any totally grim weather yet but it feels remarkably stable provided it is pitched sensibly and all the guy points including the additional ones are used.
I chose to get the heavier fabric and the rear zip for venting and with pegs and homemade alloy poles it comes in at bang on 1kg. It's roomy for one and I've used it for 2 at a mountain marathon and a 4 day Tour du Mont Blanc.
dyls - MemberThing I found is that a 2 man lightweight tent is really a 1.5 man tent.
Yup - thats the issue. Its not for one night hit and run raids - its for two of us to live in for weeks on end hence needs to be bigger than the ultralite tents and has to be robust as at times we will be a days walk from alternative shelter
Its the ultralight materials and their longevity I am interested in.
Its all part of our retirement planning when we intend to walk many hundreds of miles over months
But as I said - thanks for the input - I have a few more to look at and we are in no hurry!
I have worked out I can save almost over 2 kilos from our kit going for the lightest options of waterproofs, tents and warm layers. the cost will be a couple of thousand tho to do this.
Very light waterproofs - again any experiences? Even normal weight waterproofs regularly fail due to the use we put them thru. Last "summer" we walked for 14 hours one day in heavy rain - every piece of waterproof clothing - all decent brands and relatively new and well treated - failed after 10 hours of continuous heavy rain - the breathable materials just soaked thru
My current waterproofs are 300g for the trousers and 600g for the jacket - this can be halved but would this be at the expense of durability? I am considering a small poncho for these conditions to add another waterproof layer - I can do this for around 75 grammes.
I wish someone made decent non breathable waterproofs that actually remain waterproof unlike every breathable jacket I have had that simply cannot cope with long exposure to cold rain
TJ - I think you're trying to get too much from a light tent. 2 to 2.4kg's gets you a much more spacious, robust tent that's better suited. For weeks out, I would want either an extended porch or light tarp depending if you're below the treeline. There's a good few models of (proper) two man tunnels /semi geodesic with extended porches.
IME uber light = compromise in durability and function, for everything.
I've also learned to bail out of really grim weather when I can these days....it's retirement man, enjoy it!
Point taken. Bailing out isn't always possible tho if you are a days walk from the nearest shelter! That 14 hr day tho we did walk past a shelter at 6 hrs and should have stopped then with hindsight
I have seen spacious extended porch tents ( which I love) made of the ultralight materials. I don't quite have the bottle to buy this tho which seems to be strong / light and eye wateringly expensive
http://www.lightwave.uk.com/products/tents/vapor?product=product1
Hogan XT ultralight
F10 Xenon XT
Realistically, walking for 12 hours in very heavy rain, you are going to get wet to some point. When you walk you compress the fabrics round the arms, legs, under rucksack straps etc. So after time, along with the sweating inside (even if it's cool) you are going to get damp. IMO that's the time to adapt your plans and take some shelter (tent etc) before you then have to spend two days trying to dry out and get warm.
Personally I gave up on super light waterproofs, I wore through them too quickly. This was 10 years ago so things might have changed (also I put my kit through testing conditions on field work).
Madam and I have been using Hagloff LiM3 jackets for the last 5 years and they have been exceptional and lasted. Trousers berghaus paclites. Our walks don't sound dissimilar to what you are thinking - our longest was a 2500km continuous walk over three and a half months in Autumn and winter across the alps. I fully expected to throw the jackets away at the end but they are still going strong. We used superlite kit and bar our shoes and thermals everything survived, including our (already old) TN Voyager mentioned above. We rough camped most nights IIRC. No footprint!
A poncho is a good idea for very heavy continuous rain and I was on the verge of buying one when I was given an umbrella by a strange man in a village in italy. It was the best thing for November rains and was only traded in when the rain turned to snow and i swapped it for a fleece blanket to boost the sleeping bags. What I realised was that it is mad to try and cover all eventualities but in europe especially it is possible to collect, borrow and swap kit along the way, even if it isn't from 'Tiso's'
As I pointed in my original post on the Vaudé it's made of siliconed fabric which is lighter than any other tent outer I've owned and is so far holding up better than other fabrics I've owned. There's no doubt feedback on other specialist sites so check it out, TJ, whatever the brand of tent.
As for waterproofs I've got a selection from 350 to 800gms. The lightest is PU coated thing from Lidl and it's as waterproof as a plastic bag. - I use it for Compostelle type walks where weight is everything, often draped over my shoulders and pack like a poncho. Slightly heavier are some North Face Gortex jackets that now all leak on the shoulders (znd elsewhere)from carrying a pack, they are used for ski-mountaineering. When I'm going to be out in really horrible cold and wet weather in the mountains the 800gm Shöffel ski jacket which is a thick gortex type fabric (but more waterproof) with a drop liner gets used, it's older than the North Face Gortex lightweights and still waterproof everywhere.
The plan so far is to warm up by walking Edinburgh - Cape wrath and maybe back, the main event being the patagonia trail or something similar - a thousand miles in southern south america
ahsat - MemberRealistically, walking for 12 hours in very heavy rain, you are going to get wet to some point.
this annoys me. When is a waterproof not waterproof - when you are in rain for 12 hours a £250 waterproof jacket should be waterproof not soak thu after 10 hours. Old skool non breathable fabrics don't do this.
this annoys me
I am inclined to agree with you, but all fabrics reach a saturation point, particularly when the fabric is being compressed by movement. If you stayed very still/floated/didn't carry a pack, it might work.
I'd be very happy to find a jacket that lasted for 12 hours of rain after 1-2 years of semi regular use. Have to say my current Goretex Pro is two years old, and kept me dry in some decent Lakeland rain over the New Year, but with current knee injury, I can only walk for an hour or two, so not the same test.
Does sound like some great adventures. Enjoy. Think there is always that age old balance of weight, durability, cost etc etc.
Ive just browsed some - that F10 Xenon looks great. Reasonable room (not huge), light enough, big porch, slightly more robust groundsheet. If I had the money....
Interesting projects, TJ. You are right to be going ultralight. On long walks I take stuff that I know is compromised just because it's the lightest. Decathlon overtrousers are sweaty horrible things but 190gm. The Ferrino tent is 1600gm and barely adequate, the luxurious Vaudé is 1790gm and left in the loft at home because I'm not prepared to carry the weight for the odd night I'd appreciate the better performance.
We've found walking 8 hours a day is all we can do for long periods; 29days and 840km is the most we've done walking every day. And walking more than couple of hours in rain to be avoided. Your feet will get wet, and when they get wet you'll get blisters and if you get blisters you'll lose days of walking. We watched people walk on in the rain when we stopped and passed them a day or two later suffering with blisters from the rainy day.
Never get blisters even with wet feet unless I haven't had the callouses taken off by a podiatrist before I set off when I get the odd blister in the thick pads under the balls of my feet from sheer forces and then I just continue walking anyway as I have the right medical kit to sort them out. Yes we would only usually walk 8 hrs a day - that 14 hr day was because we ended up heading for a bothy as we couldn't find a sheltered spot to pitch up in the high passes we had climbed up into
We cannot have compromises on robustness due to the areas we want to head for.
Yep it's really disappointing int it? You spend huge amounts on the very top end kit and still get wet after more than a few hours in the rain. I've tried every iteration of GoreTex plus eVent, HyVent and a few others and still get wet. For multi day, I pack a dry set of ultra light clothes THAT MUST NOT GET WET. Everything else is sacrificial.
As for losing robustness with lighter weight, it's inevitable especially with clothing if you're carrying loaded packs. Obviously the effects can be minimised by going superlight with all the stuff you carry as well as the stuff you wear but there's still abrasion and this takes its toll over time.
I've a couple of superlight (~200g IIRC, one eVent the other Pacshite) mountain smocks and they're effectively disposable despite their high cost. They also keep me dry for about the same duration as my top specced GoreTex XCR or Pro jackets.
Have you guys tried Paramo (or Cioch)?
They're not superlite but do keep you dry and the recent designs are less fat, bird watcher bin-bag in style and are much more fitted.
@elshalimo - I've a Velez top and salopettes (can't remember the model) from Paramo. Great stuff but for me it's for close to zero and below as it's just too warm.
The other downside is that they don't pack down particularly well.
Have you guys tried Paramo (or Cioch)?
We issued it as staff uniform at the outdoor centre.
Perfect for standing around in (mega warm), for daily damp, for heavy rain etc.
But
It's heavy, even the new ones cut is not great, not as flexible as multiple light layers.
If I had time and money, I would be tempted to try the newer wind shirt + thin fleece things, but then Paramo are open in saying they're not as weather proof as the 1-piece jackets.
For multi day, I pack a dry set of ultra light clothes THAT MUST NOT GET WET. Everything else is sacrificial.
Yup - after that 14 hr day and getting to the bothy a set of dry clothes was almost literally a life saver - I was on the edge of hypothermia and t'missus was already hypothermic
One interesting thing from that day - my rucksac is a lightwave one - it remained totally dry inside although MrsTJ similar rucksac was slightly damp
@tjagain - we always keep clothes in Exped dry bags when we're backpacking/bothying/hut-to-hut etc.
Basically if it [u]must[/u] stay dry, it goes in a dry bag
Yup - I learned a cold and wet lesson on that one a few years ago with soaked kit after another long day in the rain. essential stuff is kept two waterproof layers from the outside world - in a dry bag in a waterproof rucsac
When bikepacking I'll have my sleeping bag/quilt inside a Schnozzle* inflator bag which is inside an Alpkit Hunka bivy bag which is inside an Exped dry bag which is mounted on the handlebar harness. If something pointy and sharp punctures these then I've a problem but in practice unless you actually ride in to a tree or barbed wire fence that's unlikely to happen. I'll also have a set of dry clothes to wear at night stored in the dry bag mounted in the saddle harness.
*Exped inflatable mats can be inflated using a dry bag with a nozzle that fits onto the mat's valve. Prevents moisture from your breath getting inside the mat (important if you've one of the down versions). The material is a lighter version of that used for their main dry bags. Plus Schnozzle is just a great name for a product! 😛
If you're looking for 'week long' waterproofs, give Columbia outdry a whirl. Fit is a bit clunky, and the material is rubbery/crinkly, but doesn't seem to wet out like regular goretex etc
In the usual STW recommend what you own style, i have a North Face Tadpole 2:
https://www.thenorthface.co.uk/shop/tadpole-2
I would ask yourself whether weight is everything, there are some super lightweight tents out there, but no good if every time the wind gets up you are worrying about longevity, plus if you split the poles and pegs for one person and tent itself with the other, them you are carrying less than a kilo each.
Had mine nearly 20 years, i used it for 7 months straight on a Trans-Africa trip (mostly inner only) and still use it now.
I would ask yourself whether weight is everything, there are some super lightweight tents out there, but no good if every time the wind gets up you are worrying about longevity,
Thats why I asked on here for experiences 😉 - to answer exactly that question
I had a Tadpole, it's a bit old hat now and pretty heavy at well over 2kg for not much space. The flysheet taping let go on mine though TNF warrantied it without hassle. I'd already bought a replacement as I discovered the issue mid tour...
