No worries slowoldman!
I think a lot of the conversation around winning/losing is partially irrelevant; he may not be 'winning' militarily, but he has stopped a country functioning as a it ordinarily should, caused a humanitarian crisis and reinforced the division of East vs West to potentially a new level.
I can't help but think he's well happy with that.
I think I'm going to panic fill up the tank. Should last me a while since I am also going to panic not-drive-anywhere.
Reports that Russian demands have softened in talks.
-change constitution to not allow EU or NATO membership
-recognise crimea and Eastern autonomous regions as Russian
The demilitarisation and denazification has been dropped.
I’m thoroughly ashamed to be British at the moment.
I am very proud to be British, with the efforts made to raise funds and send supplies as part of the humanitarian effort.
I am thoroughly ashamed of the British government, but that's been ongoing for most of the last 15 years or more.
Yet again, tarring an entire country with the same brush distorts the reality of the situation.
That's going to be a hard decision ^^
It's got to be a no. Anything else is a Russian win, ie they come out of it better than started which will only give them time to regroup and try again in a few years. They would know that just threatening a nuclear attack will get them (some of) what they want.
As unpleasant as it is the fight has to continue until they either withdraw completely or Putin is toppled and then they withdraw completely.
This is very easy for me to say as I'm not currently being shelled.
"Here's what we do to you if you aren't protected by firm alliances... now, agree not to form firm alliances..." 🧨🙁🔫
The demilitarisation and denazification has been dropped.
Yep, Putin's plan of remilitarization and renazification is well under way.
https://twitter.com/im_PULSE/status/1500217089595957252
The tankies got distracted with fantasies about NATO being neo-imperialist and missed what was right before their eyes.
https://twitter.com/im_PULSE/status/1500226892338798599
Minor point - I've read that it's to recognise DNR and LNR as Independent , not Russian.
Either way, it's unacceptable, and having seen Lukashenko's map which showed a planned 'liberation' of Transnistria, we can be sure it would just be Putin buying time to regroup, resupply and crack on.
But - it is an interesting climb down from what they were demanding about 3 days ago (regime change and demilitarisation of Ukraine...)
Is it really a climb down? Isn't splitting Ukraine into smaller controllable/manageable chunks the aim? I can't realistically see Ukraine coming out of this without being reduced in size, no matter how much we might want otherwise. I suspect the depressing conclusion in Ukraine will be that as well. Even though they know they won't get real peace if they agree, just a halt to current overt troop advances.
Is it really a climb down?
Yep. Putin's aim was to reduce Ukraine to a puppet of Russia like Belarus. Acknowledging Ukraine as a legitimate partner to negotiations is a climb down.
Isn’t splitting Ukraine into smaller controllable/manageable chunks the aim?
Yep. Putin isn't serious about negotiating a peace deal. If he can't destroy Ukraine, he wants to make it unviable.
Ok, maybe climbdown is overstating it. But still less rigid than the initial gambit.
Just saw another good point on Twitter. Russia is the 2nd largest arms exporter in the world. How many nations are going to be watching this, wondering if that's what they want for their army??
I think Zelenskyy will tell them where to stick their new demands.
I think he should agree to a referendum for the eastern regions but also for Crimea. I think at this point Putin would assume it would go his way but I think he'd be unpleasantly surprised.
Not sure who or how it could be overseen though.
Russia is the 2nd largest arms exporter in the world. How many nations are going to be watching this, wondering if that’s what they want for their army??
Yep. Chinese arms merchants will be out there right now promising to supply the same gear as the Russians but cheaper and with new tyres.
I think he should agree to a referendum for the eastern regions but also for Crimea.
Sounds nice. Unless a bunch of Ukrainians have fled the areas over the last few years and a bunch of Russians have moved in. So, sure, do a referendum of the people who lived there in 2014. Assume the ones who were killed by the Russian invasion voted for staying Ukrainian.
I’m thoroughly ashamed to be British at the moment.
I am very proud to be British, with the efforts made to raise funds and send supplies as part of the humanitarian effort.
I am thoroughly ashamed of the British government, but that’s been ongoing for most of the last 15 years or more.
Yet again, tarring an entire country with the same brush distorts the reality of the situation.
I didn't put it very well did I, you express it much more eloquently. I just find Boris and his cronies utterly shameful.
I think he should agree to a referendum
I've gone off referendums of late
It’s got to be a no. Anything else is a Russian win.....
This is very easy for me to say as I’m not currently being shelled.
I hate to agree,but this is probably the "right" answer, poor souls.
I’ve gone off referendums of late
Good point - can you imagine the level of Russian interference?!
you express it much more eloquently
I've been accused of a lot of things on here recently, but eloquence is a new one! 🤣
I just find Boris and his cronies utterly shameful
100%. Just be careful not mix up the the actions of the (awful) government with what the British people want. For an extreme example look at Russia and Putin. Even the limited support for Putin's actions is based on a heavily controlled narrative.
Just watch what you click on in the Wagner twitter thread, there's some pretty gruesome images of a beheaded Syrian deserter. Utter animals.
Just watch what you click on in the Wagner twitter thread, there’s some pretty gruesome images of a beheaded Syrian deserter. Utter animals.
Yes, apologies for that. I should have warned. I didn't get far before it got out of my comfort zone. Sorry.
I’m thoroughly ashamed to be British at the moment.
Being British, but mainly English has been toe-curlingly embarrassing for a good few years now, specifically since 24th June 2016.
But even by the standards of Brexit Britain it's absolutely shameful whats happening at the moment. There was an immigration lawyer on Radio 4 at lunchtime saying that the Home Office is completely unfit for purpose and despite Boris's bullshit words, they have approved a mere 1% of applications for Ukrainians trying to enter the UK.
I absolutely despise this cold-hearted, inhumane shower of ****s, but there is surely a special place in hell for Priti Patel, as the daughter of immigrants who came into this country under similar circumstances. Talk about pulling up the ladder behind yourself. An absolutely despicable human being!
Chinese arms merchants will be out there right now promising to supply the same gear as the Russians but cheaper and with new tyres.
I dunno about that. Those tyres which are falling to bits are apparently Chinese ones so I would be wanting some good evidence it was bad maintenance to blame.
I think he should agree to a referendum for the eastern regions but also for Crimea. I think at this point Putin would assume it would go his way but I think he’d be unpleasantly surprised.
Can you imagine the level of intimidation and even ethnic cleansing in these regions in the run-up to a vote? Would make the type of polite gerrymandering and voter suppression we see in the West look pretty mild.
Meet Dimitry Utkin
Not sure I want to see the rest of that Tinder profile.
Love that picture of Dmitry Utkin - you just wouldn't hire him as a babysitter.
As unpleasant as it is the fight has to continue until they either withdraw completely or Putin is toppled and then they withdraw completely
Spoken like a man safely behind his keyboard. I wonder if you’d feel differently if they were shelling your home?
I agree with your sentiment, but we need to be at least a little pragmatic here.
I know what I WANT to happen, but the Ukranian govt needs to work out what is best for them.
I feel any solution needs to be mediated with outside help.
Yes, apologies for that. I should have warned. I didn’t get far before it got out of my comfort zone. Sorry.
It's fine, I made the mistake of clicking a link assuming a story rather than actual video stills and trophy shots. They certainly have a different level of journalism.
Love that picture of Dmitry Utkin – you just wouldn’t hire him as a babysitter.
Doesnt he push trolleys for Simon Skinner?
Doesnt he push trolleys for Simon Skinner?
yarp
Spoken like a man safely behind his keyboard. I wonder if you’d feel differently if they were shelling your home?
Hence finishing with
This is very easy for me to say as I’m not currently being shelled.
It is very easy for us to come up with what we think is the 'right' answer but we are not in the emotionally charged position of having just lost loved one, or even 'just' our houses, and not in the position of being quite scared while being shot at, I expect those things would change our opinions somewhat.
Chris Bryant gives me hope.
Sadly 95% of U.K. population have never heard of him & have no idea what he does.😒
Sadly 95% of U.K. population have never heard of him & have no idea what he does.😒
Count me in that. What's he doing?
Upsetting John Terry apparently. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Direct action happening in Dublin, as a truck full of communion supplies breached the gate of the Russian embassy.
https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1500841586237845517?s=21
BBC news are just showing the reality of the Home Offices ‘surge of staff’ to Calais to cope with the mass exodus of refugees across Europe
3 people, a box of ready salted crisps and some Kit Kat’s. The 3 people are there to tell them they can’t apply for visa’s there and need to go to Paris or Brussels to apply for one
What an utter and complete shitshow. Not that we should be remotely surprised with Priti Patel and Boris Johnson at the helm
https://twitter.com/carolinelucas/status/1500869400836161538?s=21
There are times I'm embarrassed to be a civil servant. 😕
That’s exactly what I expected “surging” to look like when Johnson used that word.
But let’s ignore that disingenuous waste of flesh, just for one evening, and listen to this girl instead…
https://twitter.com/ankita20200/status/1500496884255051776?s=21
There are times I’m embarrassed to be a civil servant. 😕
I think we all know where the blame lies
Absolute clowns, the lot of them!
