Ukraine

so pilots have to descend to lower altitudes in order to drop free fall bombs with any sort of accuracy

Or gain altitude to get a bombing run in.

Yet more things I learned playing flight sims that I would later be able to use in internet arguments. I amaze myself.

molgrips

But they’re apparently not moving.

Difficult to tell from stills.

There seems to be more than a hint of Milo Minderbinder's syndicate in the Russian war machine.

Difficult to tell from stills.

Still there, aren't they?

It looks to me like that frozen convoy is now a massive liability - stuck there, it’s up taking resources keeping it defended and it’s not contributing to the war effort - probably sapping morale too, with Ukraine doing just enough to keep it sitting there. Just internet speculation, but it’s how I see it.

There seems to be more than a hint of Milo Minderbinder’s syndicate in the Russian war machine.

MM ran an international business consortium. Who do you think the business partners were?

molgrips
Full Member
Difficult to tell from stills.

Still there, aren’t they?

Dunno, even if they are it's more a question of what they are doing that if they are there, I can come up with loads of better theories than mud and no fuel, which seem unlikely to me. And also no pictures of the issue that's meant to be holding them up.

"The syndicate was called "M&M Enterprises", with the two M's standing for his initials and the "&" added to dispel any idea that the enterprise is a one-man operation."

Sounds quite Putin'esque. And of course "everyone gets a share" and "what is good for M&M is good for the country.

I can come up with loads of better theories than mud and no fuel, which seem unlikely to me

Well there are plenty of videos and pictures of Russian trucks stuck and/or abandoned, so either it's happening or it's a serious amount of top level picture staging which they must have at least some Russian gear to be able to do.

I can come up with loads of better theories than mud and no fuel, which seem unlikely to me

Given how comically bad the Russians have performed in this, I really wouldn't be surprised if the accounts department have records of a billion liters of wartime fuel reserves on hand but it's all been stolen over the years and there just isn't any fuel available to ship. Quite likely the armories, catering, etc. have the same problem.

Given how comically bad the Russians have performed in this, I really wouldn’t be surprised if the accounts department have records of a billion liters of wartime fuel reserves on hand but it’s all been stolen over the years and there just isn’t any fuel available to ship.

I saw reports that Russian soldiers sat in Belarus were selling fuel to the locals. They probably didn't know they were going to be invading so why not make some coin off all that fuel they had sitting around.

Listening to some number stations and I like that people out there are trying to sabotage Russian based transmissions (‘Buzzer’ with a siren, quite chilling)

thols2
Free Member
I can come up with loads of better theories than mud and no fuel, which seem unlikely to me

Given how comically bad the Russians have performed in this, I really wouldn’t be surprised if the accounts department have records of a billion liters of wartime fuel reserves on hand but it’s all been stolen over the years and there just isn’t any fuel available to ship. Quite likely the armories, catering, etc. have the same problem.

So A few thousand troops agreed aye lets go to war with a half tank of fuel? hmmm...

I don't think the Russians are performing comically bad either tbh, we're just not privy to their plans, I'm pretty certain they could be many times more vicious than they are being.

molgrips
Full Member
I can come up with loads of better theories than mud and no fuel, which seem unlikely to me

Well there are plenty of videos and pictures of Russian trucks stuck

It's a 2 lane road paved the convoy is on though, not a muddy single track forest road.

Anyhoo, my last comment on the convoy, we are just having a pantomime here.

So A few thousand troops agreed aye lets go to war with a half tank of fuel? hmmm…

I'm not sure how army's work, but doubt there's much of a choice in the matter.

So I just passed the Manchester pro-Ukraine rally and saw what looked like far right flags. Anyone care to explain that? 🤷‍♀️

I don’t think the Russians are performing comically bad either tbh, we’re just not privy to their plans,

Well, they accidentally published their press releases about how they "liberated" Ukraine in three days and were greeted as liberators. That's a good indication of their plans.

The massacres of the Russian paratroopers shows comically bad performance. They were supposed to be the elite of the Russian forces. They rolled up expecting that the Ukrainians would flee in terror but just got destroyed.

This war is not going the way Putin planned and their military is a laughingstock.

https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1500144147709272068

Given that the Guardian is quite popular with some contributors to these columns, here’s a useful piece from Lyndsey German:

I don't disagree with the overall message (nor the facts presented) but the delivery isn't going to win anyone over. If you're not part of Stop The War you're a warmonger? It's still NATO to blame and nothing to do with Russian expansionism that pushed eastern countries into the alliance? They seem to be the easy strawman responses.

A shame because it's actually got a lot of good points that, when you exclude the rhetoric, really should be discussed.

So I just passed the Manchester pro-Ukraine rally and saw what looked like far right flags. Anyone care to explain that? 🤷‍♀️

Not a clue, care to explain why any of us should know?

It’s a 2 lane road paved the convoy is on though, not a muddy single track forest road.

With a load of out of fuel or broken down stuff at the front, and anything that goes off the road sinks up to its axles in mud, and will do for another month or so.

Not to mention all the Twiiterverse evidence of truck hubs leaking oil and tyres perishing from lack of preventative maintenance.

This war is not going the way Putin planned and their military is a laughingstock.

I don't know what to think of it all. The Ukrainians are clearly far ahead in the propaganda war, there's loads of video clips of farmers towing away Russian armour, all very humourous.

But I think it's probably extremely dangerous to start believing that the Russian military makes Dad's Army look like the SAS.

Not a clue, care to explain why any of us should know?

I was asking a simple question. No need to get uppity if you don’t know the answer. I’m not making a point, just genuinely confused as to why they’d be there.

Anyhoo, my last comment on the convoy, we are just having a pantomime here.

Oh no we're not!

A shame because it’s actually got a lot of good points that, when you exclude the rhetoric, really should be discussed.

Preferably on a separate thread, but yes, there's some valid arguments that might make some folk think

I’m not making a point, just genuinely confused as to why they’d be there.

Who knows. Anything from they hate the Russians, through they’re funded by the Russians (whether the rank and file know it or not) and have been asked to turn out to discredit the rally, to they’ve turned up looking for an opportunity for a fight.

It would probably confuse them no end that the Taliban have issued a statement asking for a peaceful solution.

I was asking a simple question. No need to get uppity if you don’t know the answer. I’m not making a point, just genuinely confused as to why they’d be there.

Sorry, I thought you were making some sort of point.

No idea TBH, not like both sides don't have their Ultras. Maybe they're supporting the national guard battalion that was being discussed. Wonder how many will be signing up for the foreign legion?

Preferably on a separate thread, but yes, there’s some valid arguments that might make some folk think

Agreed.

thols2
Free Member

This war is not going the way Putin planned and their military is a laughingstock.

I've no idea what Putin's war aims are. So dunno.

Have the Russians performed comically bad or true to form? Or is it that those two things aren't mutually exclusive for the Russians?

The 3 day plan makes sense but then Ukraine got their hands on some Russian invasion plans 3 years back that outlined a two week campaign.

Could it be that the northern convoy was an occupation force, ready to move in after the Ukranian government had been eliminated but seeing as plan A failed, they've been told to sit there and wait, whilst the invasion proceeds from the South?

Crimea is an arms and fuel dump, the majority of the strategically valuable objectives are in the South and now in Putin's hands. Perhaps he wants to destroy the rest of the country in the next week leaving Kyiv till last?

But I think it’s probably extremely dangerous to start believing that the Russian military makes Dad’s Army look like the SAS.

I just caught the end of piece on the BBC News channel last night looking at some of the weapons systems Russia could use in Ukraine. They were discussing something that looked looked like a massive battleship gun mounted on a truck (codenamed "The Tool" by the Russian army apparently). In addition to conventional shells (designed to take out buildings in a single shot from as far away as 45km) it can also fire nuclear shells (apparently Russia has a number of tactical battlefield nuclear weapons).

Even assuming that they're just going to use the conventional shells it could get pretty hellish and I'm worried what Russia rolls out next.

PJay
Free Member

Even assuming that they’re just going to use the conventional shells it could get pretty hellish and I’m worried what Russia rolls out next.

Yeah, I've no doubt Russia could ramp up the attrition 10 fold tbh.

I’ve no idea what Putin’s war aims are.

Apparently his troops on the ground didn't know either. They were sent out on "exercises", then sent into Ukraine with 3 day's supplies, then surprised that Ukrainians started shooting at them. If the Russians don't know what their plan was, it's quite excusable that you don't either.

thols2
Free Member

Apparently his troops on the ground didn’t know either. They were sent out on “exercises”, then sent into Ukraine with 3 day’s supplies, then surprised that Ukrainians started shooting at them. If the Russians don’t know what their plan was, it’s quite excusable that you don’t either.

How come you seem to be so sure?

The massacres of the Russian paratroopers shows comically bad performance.

I think comical is a bad choice of word. You may not agree with why they were there, but they are still human beings sent to their deaths by Putin and there's nothing funny about that.

I wouldn't be surprised that there was a leak about the parachute regiment mission and the defenders managed to assemble an overwhelming force to meet them? Not necessarily comic...

Have the Russians performed comically bad or true to form? Or is it that those two things aren’t mutually exclusive for the Russians?

For perspective it took the US three weeks to reach Baghdad, so far it's only been ten days

So A few thousand troops agreed aye lets go to war with a half tank of fuel? hmmm…

But we are fairly confident that most Russians don't give a shit about the war -why would they? In that situation wouldn't you engineer a reason to not have to fight or to just walk away?

That could explain why there are so many intelligence leaks too.

"For perspective it took the US three weeks to reach Baghdad, so far it’s only been ten days"

Yep. Another perspective is looking at the map with all the red bits denoting where the invading forces are.

It looks like a claw. A big red claw.

I’ve no idea what Putin’s war aims are.

Apparently his troops on the ground didn’t know either. They were sent out on “exercises”, then sent into Ukraine with 3 day’s supplies, then surprised that Ukrainians started shooting at them. If the Russians don’t know what their plan was, it’s quite excusable that you don’t either.

Putin's aims have always been for nobody to know what's true.

MM ran an international business consortium. Who do you think the business partners were?

Everyone! Everyone has a share!

molgrips
Full Member

But we are fairly confident that most Russians don’t give a shit about the war -why would they?

Can we? We are seeing a one sided view of this war, a heavily pro Ukrainian view point tbh. Quite rightly so, but there's propaganda on all fronts. If the Russian military was as against this as we are told they would have crumbled already. Instead they are making slow and steady progress. Slow? yes. But it's looking methodical to me.

It might have taken coalition forces 4 weeks to take Baghdad but they lost around 200 people in that time/operation.

Russia seem to be doing this differently.

mangoman
Free Member
It might have taken coalition forces 4 weeks to take Baghdad but they lost around 200 people in that time/operation.

Bagdad wasn't getting supplies from Europe and the US though.

Don’t worry everyone. Instagram Liz is on the case and she will defeat Putin with Emoji’s while staring vacantly into the middle distance in an aircraft hanger

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1499788533166481412?s=21

Slow? yes. But it’s looking methodical to me.

I agree. Slow. Bloody. Lethal. But progress.
And let us remember - it is an information war. We only see the few calm, apologetic and confused prisoners. We're not seeing those who are angry or still fighting.
We're seeing overwhelming Ukranian information, or the extreme propoganda that Putin is controlling. We're not party to the Russian generals plans and discussion.
Perhaps another couple of weeks in we can start making more sense of things, but as it stands we are 10 short days in.
And while we pontificate, people die. 🙁

Unfortunately Ukraine is lost, best situation at the moment is for minimum loss of life.

Putin is that deep failures not an option.

We need to calm the nuclear rhetoric down and hope putin with this final victory buggers off somewhere preference is dead but...

In thw current situation I find Liz Truss posts far too close to poking the bear than im comfortable with.