Normal for Lincolnshire.
Thanks Kelvin. What a horrible t%#t he is.
I’m appalled by the Tory government tbh. Absolutely disgusting human beings.
Is this a real person or a Spitting Image puppet?
https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1498410764113256455
Feels like the next phase has begun - terrible, just terrible…
Sir Edward Leigh - the living personification of the word gammon
I in no way endorse this clip
I spent some time in the 2010's helping to set up a multi GP practice and dentist site in the outskirts of Boston. It was a great purpose built building with minor surgery rooms, and a new chemists, really nice and one that had been needed in the area for ages. Boston at the time had quite a large eastern European immigrant population (agricultural pickers) . We recruited dentists (my part of the project) from Romanian, Estonia etc. The reaction from both the local press, the locals themselves was an interesting one. The building completion had just co-insided with the up tick in migration, but it was almost impossible to dissuade local people that it hadn't been built because of that immigration, they almost universally saw themselves as second class citizens in their own town, and this just 'confirmed' their suspicions. The Lloyds bank in the High street had billboards in Polish, people were sent flyers for loans in Romanian regardless of whether that was their language, and there was receptionist with wee badges showing which languages they spoke, as one old pensioner said to me "They don't have a Union Jack on that do they"
Sometimes immigration, refugee or not especially into areas that haven't otherwise changed in decades needs to be handled with just a bit of care and attention.
Sometimes immigration, refugee or not especially into areas that haven’t otherwise changed in decades needs to be handled with just a bit of care and attention.
I assume you mean by educating the ignorant gammons traditional voters on the realities of immigration and not by turning away refugees (unless they want to pick fruit)?
…And 10 years before that the people of Boston were complaining about the Portuguese immigrants.
I worked in educational policy for that area in the early 2000s. Many young people didn’t see the point of education as they saw there parents get easy food factory agency jobs without qualifications and were content to do just the same themselves. I’ve seen the same in Australia with mining work in regional areas. “Why bother, we’ll be loaded anyway.”
… I digress
The point is that I'm pretty sure if you asked people in Boston; they'd welcome Ukrainian refugees as much as the next town, but just "unlimited" immigration isn't always the social good that folks in Westminster see it as. There's probably some education needed and it's easy to mutter about gammon MP under your breath, but having spent some time in places where there's been high immigration, it's not without consequences.
My nephews wife is from Ukraine. They have offered her cousins to come and stay with them in Glasgow until its safe to return. The UK government has refused them a visa as they are not a dependant of the uk citizen. So he has taken leave of his job as a doctor to go and help them out in their country.
Anyway, back to the matter in hand, this morning Ben Wallace said this about a no-fly zone
The Ukrainian armed forces are outnumbered on the ground massively by Russian armour and Russian army. One of the few weapons they have against those soldiers on the ground and forces, like those big armoured columns, is the ability to fly their fast jets and to use UAVs to strike logistical chains and their air defences etc.
Seems to suggest that Ukrainian air force is still operational at some level?
Alan Erasmus, a name all Manchester music fans will know, has gone to Ukraine to do whatever he can. There are brave people appearing in all sorts of places.
I spent some time in the 2010’s helping to set up a multi GP practice and dentist site in the outskirts of Boston. It was a great purpose built building with minor surgery rooms, and a new chemists, really nice and one that had been needed in the area for ages. Boston at the time had quite a large eastern European immigrant population (agricultural pickers) . We recruited dentists (my part of the project) from Romanian, Estonia etc. The reaction from both the local press, the locals themselves was an interesting one. The building completion had just co-insided with the up tick in migration, but it was almost impossible to dissuade local people that it hadn’t been built because of that immigration, they almost universally saw themselves as second class citizens in their own town, and this just ‘confirmed’ their suspicions. The Lloyds bank in the High street had billboards in Polish, people were sent flyers for loans in Romanian regardless of whether that was their language, and there was receptionist with wee badges showing which languages they spoke, as one old pensioner said to me “They don’t have a Union Jack on that do they”
*
Sometimes immigration, refugee or not especially into areas that haven’t otherwise changed in decades needs to be handled with just a bit of care and attention.
I worked in educational policy for that area in the early 2000s. Many young people didn’t see the point of education as they saw there parents get easy food factory agency jobs without qualifications and were content to do just the same themselves. I’ve seen the same in Australia with mining work in regional areas. “Why bother, we’ll be loaded anyway.”
My nephews wife is from Ukraine. They have offered her cousins to come and stay with them in Glasgow until its safe to return. The UK government has refused them a visa as they are not a dependant of the uk citizen. So he has taken leave of his job as a doctor to go and help them out in their country.
We really are a nation of scumbags, governed by scumbags, aren't we?
Seems to suggest that Ukrainian air force is still operational at some level?
Definitely is.
This is a summary from a fairly trustworthy source, it appears to be behind a paywall but you can stick an email address in to get access for free.
PS how long until someone puts a techno (house) track based on those gun shots over that clip? Also, looting already?
We really are a nation of scumbags, governed by scumbags, aren’t we?
We are very flawed as a nation, but we are a nation full of friendly welcoming cooperative people. You’ll meet them every day.
Moscow stock market closed again for the third day. They are just delaying the inevitable freefall carnage when it does. At what point do ordinary Russians start to question why most of the world is unified in condemnation if the Ru government line is true? I know they have have to view the world through a very distorted state controlled lens, but there must also be some epic cognitive dissonance going on too.
My views are definitely tending in that direction.
We really are a nation of scumbags, governed by scumbags, aren’t we?
No, most people are fairly decent but malleable. The government are the scum - they've created the social environment that encourages the negative sentiments because they can then cash in on it.
"@inkster I’m Irish so yes it was."
Fair enough but you didn't provide that context when you posted did you. And without context your comment came across as banal.
MoreCashThanDash
Full Member
Normal for Lincolnshire.
No it's not
Lol at the lone looter. Armed soldier with no-one around and he still fails to gain entry. Doesn't bode well for the house-to-house combat phase.
"Dmitry! Alexi! Secure that building!"
"Sarge, door's locked."
(Yeah I know it won't go like that in reality)
Normal for Lincolnshire.
You would have thought, given Lincolnshire's significant role in WW2, that their MP might show a bit of empathy.
@thols2 - gratifying to see that even the architecture and infrastructure is putting up a stiff resistance!
That actually made me laugh, talk about incompetence.
Fair enough but you didn’t provide that context when you posted did you. And without context your comment came across as banal.
Now you're getting personal.
edward leigh is, and always has been, an ignorant bigot.
His constituency of Gainsborough shares many of the same views referred to above regarding Boston.
His views will certainly be shared by some of his constituency and will empower them in anti-immigration rhetoric.
I lived for a time in Lincoln which is just down the road from Gainsborough so have some knowledge of leigh and his constituency.
He is an odious sac of pus; another bollock-faced foghorn of ignorance to stand alongside farage.
I spent some time in the 2010’s helping to set up a multi GP practice and dentist site in the outskirts of Boston. It was a great purpose built building with minor surgery rooms, and a new chemists, really nice and one that had been needed in the area for ages. Boston at the time had quite a large eastern European immigrant population (agricultural pickers) . We recruited dentists (my part of the project) from Romanian, Estonia etc. The reaction from both the local press, the locals themselves was an interesting one. The building completion had just co-insided with the up tick in migration, but it was almost impossible to dissuade local people that it hadn’t been built because of that immigration, they almost universally saw themselves as second class citizens in their own town, and this just ‘confirmed’ their suspicions. The Lloyds bank in the High street had billboards in Polish, people were sent flyers for loans in Romanian regardless of whether that was their language, and there was receptionist with wee badges showing which languages they spoke, as one old pensioner said to me “They don’t have a Union Jack on that do they”
*
Sometimes immigration, refugee or not especially into areas that haven’t otherwise changed in decades needs to be handled with just a bit of care and attention.
I worked in educational policy for that area in the early 2000s. Many young people didn’t see the point of education as they saw there parents get easy food factory agency jobs without qualifications and were content to do just the same themselves. I’ve seen the same in Australia with mining work in regional areas. “Why bother, we’ll be loaded anyway.”
My nephews wife is from Ukraine. They have offered her cousins to come and stay with them in Glasgow until its safe to return. The UK government has refused them a visa as they are not a dependant of the uk citizen. So he has taken leave of his job as a doctor to go and help them out in their country.
We really are a nation of scumbags, governed by scumbags, aren’t we?
The short answer is many people in Lincolnshire would welcome Ukrainians at this time, given what is happening. I owuld like to think most would.
The longer nuanced answer is that the county is one that has been left behind in many ways - not part of the southern boom, not benefitting form being in the Midlands proper with good transport links, not seen as part of the north that needs levelling up. The county is very insular in many ways with people who haven't seen other parts of the world (or often even of England)! Many people - probably myself included - like the fact that it feels a bit stuck in the 60s in many ways - a real sense of community, low crime, etc etc. The downside is that it is stuck in the 60s in many ways that sometimes aren't so positive...
Economically people have large houses (land is cheap) so aren't seen as poor, but wages are low, employment is hugely seasonal in much of the county, and yet areas such as Lincoln and Stamford are very affluent. Public spending has been reduced so access to services is really poor - you cannot really live here without a car as there is no public transport, and many towns have no schools, GP surgeries, Dentists etc. within a 20 mile radius. My nearerst train station is 12 miles away which takes 25 mintes to drive (country roads) and frankly has so few trains that I tend to drive to Newark (50 miles/1hr10min) to get a train as it is more connected.
So I think people would be welcoming, but the concerns about overstreetched services already and the impact of yet more people is a real one!
johndoh - lincolnshire has more than it's fair share of objectionable MPs
In addition to leigh I give you Lia Nici, Caroline Johnson and Karl McCartney; not one redeeming feature between them all.
I said your comment came across as banal, not you personally.
Though feel free to prove me wrong...
Russians assisting small businesses by making free advert for door lock manufacturing company. (As reported on RT).
From a link in the article up there ^^^^, changing the text of roadsigns to "Russians F*ck Off" is Clarkson level genius.
ji - some areas of Lincoln are relatively affluent but your blanket statement that Lincoln is very affluent is way off the mark.
I don't want to get dragged into a side discussion when the thread is about Ukraine.
You think commenting that people never forget boundaries imposed on them is banal?
The Battle of Techno House is brilliant - he was probably trying to liberate an iPhone as he won’t be able to buy another for a long time.
PCA has posted that his 47 year old friend in Lviv has just messaged to say he’s been called up. He has left his dog with a neighbour and been put on a bus going to Kyiv, which has been blessed by a priest. Neither of them are expecting to see each other again.
Honestly though Pat Robertson was dead. He was an MS-DOS version of Trump from the 80's.
Anyway, feeling slightly heartened that some big hitter corporates are starting to really turn the screws. Exxon, Boeing, Apple, MSC, Maersk for example. Whilst there may be 'some' self-interest, there is no doubt that Russians will be getting a clear message that something is very wrong with what is happening with the special operations in Ukraine.
there is now just complete resignation by everyone that this is just how it is
So those hoping for the solution to the Putin problem to come from inside Russia are just delusional. Its just not going to happen
I get what you’re saying, and I echo those saying about “Russian stoicism” and acceptance of it…
However… Russia is a very corrupt country as we well know. Corruption has only one loyalty… Money! For more than 2 decades now, Putin has made a lot of ostensibly nasty characters very wealthy indeed, and all of a sudden, he has not only made them very un-wealthy in real terms (can’t access their assets, can’t trade them for foreign currency etc), but has shone a light on their I’ll gotten gains to the rest of the world meaning that unless they do something about it, the gravy train is well and truly over…
The best thing about greed is that it is predictable (apply that phrase to Putins tactics right now for instance!). Greed will make a lot of allowances for behaviour it might find reprehensible itself but is willing to turn a blind eye towards if it makes it rich. But greed will also turn on those who cease to be a valuable asset at a moments notice, especially when faced with a newer, more lucrative proposal…
Don’t think so one dimensionally of Russia as Putin/the state and 150m civilians used to putting up and making do. Russia is a hotbed of really ****ing nasty people, especially in Moscow. Ratchet the price up on Putins head (and I’m not saying it would be cheap!), and he’ll fall sooner or later… Especially if the CIA were involved and started offering all sorts of impunity and special terms as per when they usually finance revolutions in dictatorships.
What happens next is potentially almost as big an issue of course, but that’s a matter for another day…
A $100Bn price tag on Putins head, and total impunity for any actions taken to get it would do the trick I’m sure… No messing about with a few $million here or there. Dangle a big carrot, get the nasties of the world to do your dirty work! You could even sell the price to the Russian Oligarchy as a “special wealth tax” before you reinstate their assets and allow them to start buying shitloads of Rubles whilst they’re still cheap, this negating any financial inconvenience in the long term for said individuals…
I’m being deadly serious here!
Vlads Russian Imperialist War wouldn’t last very long against the combined greed and corruption in his own country, let alone if that offer was extended to any of his enemies… Even his own people will turn on him in time with the current economic sanctions imposed (which need to cut deeper still of course, stop any oil or gas leaving Russia now!!!) as the banks repossess their homes in the name of the war effort, they start to go hungry and they can’t get important supplies they might need from the rest of the world. This will take much longer though than merely incentivising the underworld to do the dirty work, so it depends the costs that the US (I say the US cos let’s not beat about the bush here, they’d be organising it!) puts on Ukrainian lives in the meantime… The financial siege tactics will work in the end, but they’re a slow burner to someone who has amassed such a personal and state wealth already!
The short answer is many people in Lincolnshire would welcome Ukrainians at this time, given what is happening. I owuld like to think most would.
The longer nuanced answer is that the county is one that has been left behind in many ways
Brilliantly put - to put my previously flippant answer in context, was brought up in the Fens and covered the area for work in 2016-20, which made the migrant worker/Brexit conversations interesting as I dealt with landlords and agents.
Pretty much all the young people in this country didn’t want Brexit or vote for it. They got Brexit.
Pretty much all the young people in this country didn’t want a Tory government or vote for it. They got a Tory government.Good luck to the young people in deposing a brutal dictatorship
Can someone please pop round and put an extra Valium in Binners' coffee?!?! I'm genuinely worried for him...
Seriously though... I'm the most anti Brexit, Pro EU person around still, and so anti the current Tory Govt that they sicken me to the stomach... You know what happens in democracies though (even pseudo ones, such as ours is currently)...? After a period of time, opinions sway back the other way... We will, in my lifetime, especially after what is going on in Ukraine right now, be fighting to be a member of the EU again I guarantee it. Johnson will be seen for what he is at some point too (albeit too late to really do anything about the damage he has caused), and when those things happen, the staunch Brexiteer right wing Johnson apologists will be up in arms complaining that the "leftists always get their way"...
"You think commenting that people never forget boundaries imposed on them is banal?"
No, but submitting that comment to the forum without any context is.
I'm enjoying the guessing game though, there's obviously something relevant you want to say about Ireland and Ukraine but perhaps you felt the need to fish for an argument first.
Go on, you've got me in the cross hairs of enlightenment, hit me with the truth...
This helps to explain why Evangelical Republicans in America are so keen on Putin. It’s difficult to see, though, how they can justify his invasion of another Christian country.
Well this has all gone a bit surreal
Anyhoo, we had a power cut this morning for about 45 mins, but when it happened , just for a second, I did half seriously think to myself "He hasn't, has he?"
put an extra Valium in Binners’ coffee?!?!
I presume Binners point is that modern day demographics mean that young people do not drive the politics in countries like ours.... never mind in Russia. I can't disagree with him as regards current UK politics at all... but the situation in Russia is not the same as here, and I share the hope others have in the young of Russia... despite everything stacked against them... accepting that is just a hope, a wish, a longing... and I'm desperately clinging to anything that helps give strength to that hope. Mapping UK democracy demographics onto resistance, rebellion and perhaps revolution under a long standing autocratic regime isn't useful, or really possible.
As someone with a geeky interest in Economics, I find the economic war fascinating, it shows how the evil business of money can actually be used for good. The Russian are waging a bloody war, for obvious reasons the rest of the World can’t directly intervene but our economic war will be devastating to Russian without a single shot being fired.
Bingo... It just takes patience and unrelenting dedication to the cause. Something not being shown right now with oil and gas still leaving Russia to the west sadly!
The sanctions need to be as severe as they can be to have an effect as soon as possible, and minimise civilian casualties.
There's a reason why the CIA has financed so many overthrown dictatorships since WW2... It's generally the cheapest and the fastest option, with least civilian casualties (or ones the financier actually care about at least)! 🤭
The SWIFT lockout is the killer blow. Putin, according to Biden, had hundreds of billions in foreign reserves to which he currently has no access. So he has seriously underpredicted the international response.
Switzerlands step off the fence possibly even more influential I would argue. Putin will have counted for Swift being knocked out you would think (or someone would have given him that information at least). Access to Swiss bank accounts being withdrawn to all Russian nationals though (these hundreds of $Bn's aren't in his name of course) is priceless given the context!
Seriously though... Imagine going to war and planning to finance it in a foreign currency (that of your biggest international aggressor) held in bank accounts in another country (albeit they have traditionally shown absolute neutrality, but their central location in the previous Nazi occupation of Europe will have reminded them of the occasional need to get off the fence)... This could ultimately be Putins undoing rather than military tactics!
US revises assessment and believes that Kyiv will likely be encircled within a week and fall in the next 4-6 weeks, with a longer war in Ukraine lasting 10-30 years. Unconfirmed reports that Ukrainian forces have destroyed a large Russian convoy near Bashtanka in the Mykolaiv region. Russian forces advance in the Sumy region, though do not appear to hold the city yet. Reports that paratroopers have landed in Kharkiv with another push to take the city tonight
10 to 30 years, good grief.
Go on Vlad open the stock market.
And congratulations to the Olympic committee for finding balls to kick out Russian athletic teams. OH WAIT....
Really not sure where Europe will go next a no fly zone is sadly a huge risk. But we cannot tolerate bombing like that on civil areas.
Only way out is Putin getting his cards.
It's not even a Russia war it's Putins, Russian people will be hurting on the economical side you have got to feel for them but they are the answer to removing Putin.
