Yes a very sobering thread. I fear it may be more accurate than we would like it to be. I think it may now be a race between the Russians bringing their full force to bear, and the impact of world isolation on Putin’s policy.
Though, a second incomplete airframe does exist, or did.
At the same location? In which case, it's probably also destroyed
I wonder what the impact of the economic sanctions will be on Russia's ability to make and supply weapons, gear, and fuel? I know they have a lot of resources internally including oil, but what if they end up having to print roubles to pay people to do these things and end up in hyperinflation? I'm guessing the people who work producing this stuff will have no choice but to keep doing so. There must be something it needs to buy from outside in this day and age?
There must be something it needs to buy from outside in this day and age?
Pork!!!!!
Liz, Liz get in there now.
Developing pork market.
@molgrips pretty bad I reckon, seems it's not in the best shape on a good day.
Problems in the industry include a high level of debt, inflation and lack of qualified personnel. The consequence is that whereas the age of the average defence industrial scientist or engineer in China is about 30 and around 40 in the US – it is 50 years or more in Russia in 2008, it was reported that only 36% of military-industrial enterprises are solvent, while 23% are on the verge of bankruptcy.
Oof this is really not going to help. I did wonder if the reason the troops on the sidelines haven't been brought in is that they haven't got the fuel or ammo and are there for show.
Hitler largely funded his war effort with stolen art and treasures from various sources don’t forget… And when things were going sour at the end, he ordered as much of it to be destroyed as possible rather than falling back into allied hands!
Really? Don't think either of these statements are true.
I’ve read some stupid stuff on the internet recently, but this takes the biscuit quite frankly!
Dammit...I only just fixed my irony meter!
molgrips
Full Member
I wonder what the impact of the economic sanctions will be on Russia’s ability to make and supply weapons, gear, and fuel? I know they have a lot of resources internally including oil, but what if they end up having to print roubles to pay people to do these things and end up in hyperinflation? I’m guessing the people who work producing this stuff will have no choice but to keep doing so. There must be something it needs to buy from outside in this day and age?
I believe Russia have been stockpiling and also resourcing over the years to support this type of scenario, so will have a window to continue for a while yet.
As for natural resources and supplies, Russia is unfortunately a large percentage of the worlds market for a lot of the required resources, from oil and gas, through to rare earths, imports that they require tend to be specifics, same as every other country.
Lets just hope that this starts levelling down soon, it's still just unbelievable that one man (and potentially his core team) can manage to do something like this, honestly, we are all sat here in the 21st century looking back thinking that history couldn't possibly repeat.
Lots of videos of convoys of trucks smouldering along various Ukrainian roads, not beyond the realms of possibility thats some of their logistics elements getting hammered. Happened in Iraq quite a bit in '03 when the US combat elements punched up to Bagdad, the support troops following behind got hammered.
I've heard that the Ukrainians have captured a Pantsir-S air defence system which had got stuck in the mud and have some Libyan mercenaries who know how to use it.
How accurate this is I don't know, just one source at present which I know nothing about
In Iraq, the basic humble RPG did a lot of damage to the allies. Anybody can fire it and it has a big warhead.
When it gets urban, RPGs distributed amongst the population would be a nightmare for the Russians. Any vehicle below a fully armoured tank is vulnerable.
it’s still just unbelievable that one man (and potentially his core team) can manage to do something like this
Well I don't wish to de-rail the thread, but isn't this what Bush and Blair did?
Lots of videos of convoys of trucks smouldering along various Ukrainian roads, not beyond the realms of possibility thats some of their logistics elements getting hammered. Happened in Iraq quite a bit in ’03 when the US combat elements punched up to Bagdad, the support troops following behind got hammered.
I know little of such things but that does seem a sensible tactic. Let the big scary stuff pass through, come in behind them and cut off their supplies and then take on the tanks when they are low on fuel and ammo and morale is low as they are cut off?
^^Thats a Radar guided missile battery - a whole level up from IR guided missiles. You need serious kit and training to escape that.
I don't know how much ammo they have for it, I guess that would be the limiting factor?
I assume the missiles will be specific to that system?
I wonder what the impact of the economic sanctions will be on Russia’s ability to make and supply weapons, gear, and fuel? I know they have a lot of resources internally including oil, but what if they end up having to print roubles to pay people to do these things and end up in hyperinflation?
This has been 30yrs in the making for Putin, he has almost certainly amassed more money than some of the smaller banks had purely just to finance this war, more money than most countries even. That said... The way things are going, he'll have 150mn hungry and homeless people within weeks that he'll need to stick his hands into his pockets to fund, otherwise they will turn on him!
As for the weapons, gear, fuel...? The way things have gone for the Russian army so far in those respects, I'd be surprised if they haven't run out by next week!
@andrewh yup. That's how Jessica Lynch was captured, they've not often had the depth of training as front line troops, usually to a basic degree, although the US rectified that following a few high profile incidents.
The RLC spent a lot of time training and developed a force protection element for their combat logistics patrols in Afghanistan to prevent such issues.
I just can’t believe how this has even happened, just so glad to see Russia being crippled by sanctions but equally sad that this will affect so many well meaning Russians and its only the minority that even wanted this.
Seeing the humanitarian side of it and the severe loss of life is tragic, also now I’m a home owner and have a career, I cannot imagine what it must be like to leave your life lived home not knowing if you’ll ever go back.... just hope this whole issue de-escalates soon.
Was very pleased to see that Anonymous were doing their bit.... but when will he be tried for these crimes? Nerve agent in UK, multiple assassination attempts on UK soil...just ridiculous.
**** me there's a 17 miles long Russian armoured convoy heading for Kyiv. That's got to be the end of it, hasn't it?!?
Source?
^ BBC
Sadly it appears that we are about to find out if the Russians are really struggling as much as some people on here seem to think.
Take your pick @molgrips they're all leading with it. BBC news front page has it with satellite images.
Here's hoping the city can hold them off.
Or some offensive action can stop or at least hinder them.
The convoy is reported to have embedded logistical supports so that's bad news.
When will the munitions and weaponry promised by EU/NATO/US/UK get to Ukraine?
How long will it then take to move them to where they're most needed?
As I said earlier theres reports of the Ukrainians blowing the bridges across the Dniepr, so that suggests we may be approaching last ditch actions. Having said that urban fighting as already pointed out is notoriously difficult so it might not be over all that quickly. Who knows. I for one am rooting for the Ukrainians though.
**** me there’s a 17 miles long Russian armoured convoy heading for Kyiv. That’s got to be the end of it, hasn’t it?!?
This has been building for some time. If the Ukrainians had the ability to do anything about this, then I can't see why they wouldn't have.
For anyone who needs a little cheering up right now… This is just brilliant!
As well as being the Ukrainian voice of Paddington Bear, he also won their version of Strictly come Dancing back in 2006 too…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xKFSK_9e-g4
This is really interesting. He seems to know what he is talking about and he doesn't think the Russian advance is going as badly as is being portrayed on social media
**** me there’s a 17 miles long Russian armoured convoy heading for Kyiv. That’s got to be the end of it, hasn’t it?!?
What is it with this continual convoy/column theory from Russia…? Have they not seen the mess that was made of the Chechens yesterday?
Saw it posted somewhere earlier… With a convoy all you have to do is take out the first 3 vehicles and the last 3, then everyone in the middle is sitting ducks! 🤦🏻♂️
Have they not seen the mess that was made of the Chechens yesterday
Was that independently verified?
At this time of year they have to stick to the roads or they’ll get bogged down. Also seen some speculation that Russian forces were not issued with maps/ gps as speed of advance meant they wouldn’t need them. Again not sure of truth of this.
As above if the Ukrainians could have hit them earlier I’m surprised they haven’t. Plus Russian Air Force now supposed to be showing up in much greater numbers.
I've a feeling this is about to turn into something more like what people expected that force on the border to achieve, i.e. the place's about to start getting flattened. I expect the convoy will be well-defended.
The Spectator now saying Russia declared that countries sending stuff to Ukraine will be responsible if used against Russian forces.
Was that independently verified?
Feel free to go and verify it for yourself by all means...
There's a number of people on this thread that have already independently verified that you're a bit of a dick though, it would seem... I am yet to be convinced by the overwhelming evidence myself though, if that matters...? 🤷🏻♂️
Anyone been reading the google reviews of Moscow hotels?
Russia declared that countries sending stuff to Ukraine will be responsible if used against Russian forces.
I did wonder whether this would be Russia's response, especially after saying that any involvement from 3rd parties would be punished.
Zelenskyy. the comedy clown who became a statesman, and we have Boris, the wannabe statesman who is just a clown.
I agree with that, however (and correct me if I am wrong) there are competitors for much of that stuff already in the rest of the world, so it would be relatively easy to get our higher tech elsewhere.
mols - if only that were the case I think the west would have looked to scale up; I also stand to be corrected.
mboy, your assertion...
Hitler largely funded his war effort with stolen art and treasures from various sources don’t forget… And when things were going sour at the end, he ordered as much of it to be destroyed as possible rather than falling back into allied hands!
Is not supported by any facts that I'm aware of - and I've been informing myself about WW1 and 2 for 40 years.
What's your source?
Russia declared that countries sending stuff to Ukraine will be responsible if used against Russian forces.
But what can he do, threaten to nuke only these countries? That doesn't work.
Cyber attacks, certainly but he'll be doing that anyway, whether a county supplies arms or not. I'm worried for the NHS systems in this instance.
Cut gas supplies? Possible but it'll screw him over just as much and likely more than it will Europe.
Bio/ chem attack on Europe? Might as well launch nukes as NATO will act.
Putin is in serous danger of giving the West "threat fatigue".
After you play the nuke card, not much else seems that threatening really...
Satellite imagery company Maxar Technology says that earlier reports indicating the column of Russian armour advancing on Kyiv is 17 miles (27km) long are inaccurate.
The convoy actually stretches about 40 miles, according to Maxar.
The company added that new images also show ground troops and attack helicopters in southern Belarus, less than 20 miles from the Ukraine border.
Doesnt sound good for Kyiv
Russian arms supply half of the worlds armies , especially the dodgy ones!
Going to be a tough 24 hours for Kyiv but they have spread the government officials across the country in order to coordinate the inevitable insurgency.
Cut off one head...
But what can he do
Threaten to drag them into a war
Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban reiterated that his government would do everything to stay out of the war in Ukraine and would therefore not send any weapons or military equipment to its eastern neighbour.
https://kafkadesk.org/2022/02/28/hungary-wont-send-weapons-to-ukraine-orban-says/
Although apart from that as a rightwing authoritarian nationalist Viktor Orban quite admires the rightwing authoritarian nationalist in Moscow.
Remember Fiona Hill?
British born, US based long time Putin watcher and acknowledged expert on Russia who testified in trump's first impeachment.
Her thoughts on Putin in a Q&A with Politico...
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/28/world-war-iii-already-there-00012340
Her experience and credentials?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiona_Hill_(presidential_advisor)