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inflation wise not even in the same ballpark chewkw
Any info on the multiple storm shadow hits from yesterday?
Apparently 8 to 10 were used on a single target, which must have been horrific for anyone underneath that amount of firepower
Both sides are now testing their missiles on each others. You know, to see how effective their weapons are and to probe each others.
No, Storm Shadow and ATACMS are not the same things as ICBMs.
This Twitter post shows multiple ICBM strikes:
https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1859585952693313758
They are multiple warhead strikes (so each missile delivers multiple warheads), but the warheads themselves are dummies, there aren't any explosions when they hit the ground. It's quite possible that Russia hasn't been able to fit conventional warheads into the missiles, they are designed to deliver nuclear warheads but won't have the precision needed to deliver small conventional warheads. So, militarily not much use really, an expensive way to make a lot of noise and kill a few random civilians.
Any info on the multiple storm shadow hits from yesterday?
Apparently 8 to 10 were used on a single target, which must have been horrific for anyone underneath that amount of firepower
A lot of missiles for 1 target, how many have we/france given Ukraine?
The target must have been quite important to justify the use of that many
Storm Shadow is a development of a French long range anti runway denial weapon that originally carried cluster munitions. It has a single explosive rather than the small bomblets, but the payload is still only about 450Kgs. You'd probs still need to use multiple weapons to destroy a larger target.
I don't think it will be used in the F-35 fleet, so may as well give them to Ukraine
Hmm looks like the target was Southern Command officers
??? Regarding the strike with Storm Shadow missiles on the command post in the Kursk region, - Dosiye Shpiona
? 18 servicemen were killed,33 were injured, including 3 DPRK soldiers. Most of the victims are officers of the Southern and Eastern Military Districts.<br><br>[image or embed]
— MAKS 24 ??? (@maks23.bsky.social) November 21, 2024 at 2:04 PM
https://embed.bsky.app/static/embed.js
I wonder why the Euro allies don't follow the russian way of dealing with accusations:
Surging Lavatory: Six storm Shadow missiles fired from Ukraine into russia...
MOD and all allies: Really, thats laughable. Nothing to do with us. Fake news!
Why do "we" accurately update?
Yes, we fired them
Yes, no limits to range
Yep, we supplied them
Yes, you can blame us
etc etc. Why?
One thing we could learn, Shirley, is the art of "Dickcraft" which in this case, russia excels.
10 storm shadows on the Kerch bridge - the why not?
10 storm shadows on the Kerch bridge – the why not?
Wrong tool for the job. It might cause some localised damage, including possibly holeing the deck, but nothing that wouldn't be repairable in fairly short order. The warhead simply isn't big enough to cause significant structural damage to such a target. The truck bomb used in the 2022 attack was claimed by the FSB (credibly IMV) to contain around 22 metric tonnes of high explosives, on 22 pallets. Over 50 storm shadows worth. Even that didn't damage the bridge irreparably.
I would have thought the the threat of using these things is as important as using them. Russia now has to disperse and move back from bases and depots 'near' Ukraine....
this new Russian weapon - the Oksana Thunderbastid - is it real or are they just covering up for ineffective ICBMs?
this new Russian weapon – the Oksana Thunderbastid – is it real or are they just covering up for ineffective ICBMs?
There are so many new weapons in the world nobody knows exactly how those weapons work.
Apparently only the West has all the powerful resources. Wait a minute, the media knows?
.... the Oksana Thunderbastid ...
Oh ya, that's a good name for something that is thrown over neighbour's fence.
codename Oreshnik does sound like a rash cream
Thunderbastid
We need to have a word with the northerner that names Putin's war weapons. 😉
this new Russian weapon – the Oksana Thunderbastid – is it real or are they just covering up for ineffective ICBMs?
Stick with Ukraine's first identification, RS-26 Rubezh ICBM, for now. They used to make the Soviet Union's missiles as well as their tanks so if anyone knows...
Russian media refer to it as Oreshnik. US DOD spokesperson Sabrina Singh said that it was based on the R26 and the US was notified before the launch through nuclear risk reduction channels https://www.c-span.org/video/?540165-1/defense-department-briefing
Google R26 Rubezh for more; it isn't new
The whole is it an ICBM or not is a semantic question that changes with possible range; it's a ballistic missile. It may or may not be hypersonic but we've seen Ukraine shoot the hypersonic Kinzhal down with Patriot, which was an unexpected corner of the performance envelope
notified before the launch
Educate me on this; presumably the notification is of a time period where civilians could make a run for it in time, so if both sides know about it, why are we notifying each other - to avoid accidental escalation e.g. ”it’s ok, we know it’s not a Nuke”
i doubt it was for civilian benefit. as i said up there i suspect it would have been so they avoided 'alarm' when NATO spotted a ICBM had been fired and avoid a retalation which will have undoubtably be planned for in the event of a nuke being used
Teports on X that Krasnodar has been hit? Wasn't that where the Russian missile was launched from?
Or to put it another way, where the Bastard launched the Thunderbastid.
Tit for Tat, who’s going to blink first….. ?
@Kryton, there's a vast array of intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance (ISTAR) gathering tools directed at this sort of thing. From human intelligence (HUMINT) sources through signal intelligence (SIGINT) all the way to space-based launch detection and satellites.
As well as all the traditional information on weapon capability, force doctrine, standard operating procedures (SOP's). techniques, tactics and procedures (TTP's) from the strategic level down to unit level readiness and response times.
How's that for a bunch of military jargon!
ElShalimo
Full Member
It allegedly came from a different area on west bank of Caspian Sea
Ah, right. Something unrelated has gone pop then.
to avoid accidental escalation e.g. ”it’s ok, we know it’s not a Nuke”
Bang on (if you'll pardon the phrase 🙂 ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Risk_Reduction_Center
And that ^. Always forget the good old dog and bone option.
Back into day we used to have CFE (Combined Force Europe Treaty) inspections, I remember driving my boss about as part of a team escorting some Russians counting helicopters, tanks and what not. Making sure weren't hiding stuff, then groups of NATO officers would go to Russia and do the same.
It's all one big game really
Something burning in Krasnodar, fuel depot?
https://bsky.app/profile/maks23.bsky.social/post/3lbidzllct22b
The whole is it an ICBM or not is a semantic question that changes with possible range; it’s a ballistic missile. It may or may not be hypersonic
AIUI, the IC part just refers to the maximum range (i.e. intercontinental), so greater than 5,500 km. It can reach any target within that range. Any ICBM could be used as a tactical weapon against much closer targets if wanted, but it's still an ICBM because the maximum range is over 5,500 km. Any missile with that sort of maximum range will be hypersonic on reentry. (Hypersonic is defined as Mach 5+.)
AIUI, the IC part just refers to the maximum range (i.e. intercontinental), so greater than 5,500 km. It can reach any target within that range. Any ICBM could be used as a tactical weapon against much closer targets if wanted, but it’s still an ICBM because the maximum range is over 5,500 km.
Yeah, but...
You'll see the same missile referred to as an IRBM (intermediate-range BM) as well, e.g. "can confirm that Russia did launch an experimental intermediate-range ballistic missile," said Defense Department Deputy Spokesperson Sabrina Singh" (from the C-Span link ^^).
It's semantics that began with the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF Treaty), which stopped ground-launched BM and cruise missiles with ranges between 500km and 5500km. The R26 and a couple of earlier Russian missiles were alleged to violate that and so were designated ICBMs by Russia.
Russia wouldn't stop the developments and China, Iran and N.Korea, who weren't INF Treaty signatories, were also developing IRBMs, so then-President Trump withdrew from the treaty.
Semantics
PS Storm Shadow is normally air-launched and doesn't count. ATACMS is ground-launched, but 300km range and doesn't count either
Any missile with that sort of maximum range will be hypersonic on reentry. (Hypersonic is defined as Mach 5+.)
A truly hypersonic missile needs to manoeuvre for accuracy at hypersonic speeds. Not all Mach 5+ missiles can do that and aren't considered usefully hypersonic
I see Kim Jong has joined the Nuclear rhetoric this morning…..
inflation wise not even in the same ballpark chewkw
Absolutely +1
Detail-wise too:
RPI price for 250g butter in October 2023 was £2.19 and October 2024 it was £2.17 https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/timeseries/kw9b/mm23
I can't be bothered to sort through the tables for different spuds, but loose new potatoes per kg £1.43 to £1.51 in the same period
Russia had an egg crisis during winter 23-24, some cracks in the economy? A dozen eggs here, no change at £3.26
Putin's Plan to Fix Russia's Egg Crisis Backfires https://www.newsweek.com/russia-egg-crisis-nato-turkey-export-backfires-h5n1-bird-flu-1860155
Making sure we weren’t hiding stuff,
I remember hiding stuff (admittedly, not a lot) when the Russian inspectors came round............................
I think it’s well overdue we start hitting the Russians with x10 more… ++++ them.
This is peurile infantile nonsense. It's a bloody good job the western military respone to Ukraine and Putin isn't in the hands of macho idiots on here as millions would already be dead by now and the rest of us would be back in the stone age. 'Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough' might be a valid strategy in a pub argument, but not for nuclear armed geopolitical crises.
macho idiots on here
The post you quoted isn't very measured I'll grant you. Neither is your default setting of slinging insults. You sometimes have good points to make but they get lost because the moment you start with the ad hominems people instantly stop listening. You could post without doing that. Just a thought.
It’s a bloody good job the western military respone to Ukraine and Putin isn’t in the hands of macho idiots on here
arguably standing up to Putin is exactly what we should have done years ago , poisoning dissidents & uk citizens , annexing huge chunks of former USSR countries, undermining elections, we failed utterly, hoovering up oil & gas on the cheap.
appeasement of Putin has failed utterly
This is peurile infantile nonsense.
You missed out the sentence directly before:
Europe has been very carefull so far, and that is a massive mistake…
Who knew that not launching the first ever full-scale war with a nuclear armed country was a "massive mistake"?
Neither is your default setting of slinging insults.
I'll stop when the macho nonsense stops. For the most part this thread is fairly serious and sensible, as it should be for a subject of such gravity. But then every now again we see comments like..
"as for Putlers response, I’m quaking in my boots"
appeasement of Putin has failed utterly
There's that word again. It doesn't apply in this case as it did in the 1930s. The two situations are not at all comparable for the simple fact that Putin has nuclear weapons and is possibly prepared to use them. If Hitler had nukes you can bet the western powers would not have declared war on him and the world would now be very different. Call it what you like, but the cold reality is that avoiding nuclear armageddon makes everything else pale into insignificance.
What you call appeasement I call diplomacy. The alternative to diplomacy is war. Are you seriously suggesting we should go to full scale direct war with Russia? Do you have a death wish? Do you think destroying modern civilization and killing billions is worth it to maintain a point of principle? Because make no mistake, that's exactly what we're talking about here.
but not for nuclear armed geopolitical crises.
Russia are currently only able to carry on with their adventurism in Ukraine becasue they're being directly propped up and aided by countries like Iran, China and North Korea, if anyone is guilty of escalation then the blame can be firmly laid at the feet of those countries.
Oh joy here we go again, our regular antagonist has returned
Whilst I also don't agree with suggesting we go attack russia and I also think its really quite a bad idea, I am able to restrain myself from calling people idiots. I wish you would stop being so insulting to anyone that does not share your view.
if anyone is guilty of escalation then the blame can be firmly laid at the feet of those countries.
I didn't mention blame or talk about who did what first or whatever. All I'm saying is that applying schoolyard male bravado to a situation as complex, delicate and dangerous as this will result in a catastrophe that we will all suffer from. It needs cool heads and pragmatic solutions, not ultimatums and threats, and thankfully that seems to be the approach that the western powers are taking rather than rising to Putin's egotistic petulance.
If Hitler had nukes you can bet the western powers would not have declared war on him and the world would now be very different.
That is a very interesting point. I genuinely do wonder what had happened if he did. At the end of the day, we never wanted to go to war but we drew one too many lines in the sand with the stance about invading Poland as it was – so would he have continued to land-grab? Would England / France have still had to eventually declare war no matter what?
I was aware of the ban on importing Russian oil into the EU but have only just picked up on the fact India are buying massive quantities of Russian oil, refining it into diesel, and selling it to the EU. The thinking is that if India stopped importing Russian oil and bought it on the open market it would cause a spike in oil prices and a knock on increase in inflation.