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Probably rail and trucks.
Russia doesn't have air control or are anywhere near sealing the Ukrainian border so stuff can be shipped across relatively easily
Turkey was quite a different place when it joined NATO I think, still following Ataturk's model - secular, West-looking.
Probably answer my own question after hearing a work colleague has left kiev and is with family just over the border in Slovakia. After a quick Google Earth session to see where she is, at Uzhorod there is a runway that ends 70 metres from the Slovak border...
I might be doing a road trip if she wants to move to Germany.
I see BP and the Norwegian Soveriegn Wealth Fund intend to divest their shares in Russian assets. Who does one sell their multibillion-dollar Russian assets to - given that most other investors are likely to have similar ethical*/legal/financial concerns about such holdings? So are you really only able to sell your dodgy Russian assets to some equally dubious third party - who perhaps are likely to become even more closely aligned to Russia?
Is it feasible to simply "gift" (or sell for £1) to a trust set up for Ukraine, (obviously with safeguards in place). There would be an irony if the wealth to rebuild** came from Russian assets that the "west" had held whilst we greedily tried to profit from Putin.
* I don't really believe this is driven by ethics - it might be driven by a fear of knock-on effects of sanctions on businesses that hold significant Russian assets though.
** I am aware that this is the optimistic outcome; but even if its 50 yrs from now - one day it will happen. Alternatively, or additionally, such a fund could also be used to support things in Russia that would result in greater stability for the world.
* I don’t really believe this is driven by ethics – it might be driven by a fear of knock-on effects of sanctions on businesses that hold significant Russian assets though.
Maybe not ethics, but optics. Those institutions have a public-facing side and they're calculated that the publicity is negative for them. There are plenty of murkier institutions who don't have to worry about public perception and can happily take on that asset at a price slightly less than its pure freemarket value. Although the value of many of those assets has tumbled significantly in the last few days.
BBC says;
Immediately offloading the stake to a potentially inappropriate buyer was not an option.
The company has decided to "divest" - meaning it will sever its financial ties with Rosneft, stop taking a dividend and step back from its two seats on the board.
Company officials say it is too soon to say exactly how this stake will be disposed of.
It could potentially be seized, or sold.
It will mean a significant financial hit, but a price BP had little choice but to pay.
So it sounds like they immediately stop taking part in Rosneft and stop reaping any benefits, then figure out what to do with it later. Probably get sold to some dodgy company later on, someone will be happy to hoover it up cheap.
iirc, Russia doesnt meet the minimum requirements for entry. Basically as a result of being a dictatorship?
Doesn’t seem to be a problem for Turkey.
Whilst the UK is no even in the same league as Russia we are hardly a model of democracy ourselves. Our Head of State and Prime Minister have never been elected in hundreds of years.
Who does one sell their multibillion-dollar Russian assets to – given that most other investors are likely to have similar ethical*/legal/financial concerns about such holdings?
Im sure there are plenty of investors who will buy if the price is right. You will probably find that is all traded through London. At best this is about optics, more likely a straight commercial decision spun for optics.
Not had many political chats but in general they don’t trust the western media.
You can hardly blame them. I think there are plenty of people in the UK who don’t trust the media. The fact that the Daily Mail is one of the most popular sources of new (in the loosest sense of the word) tells you all you need to know about wanting to know the truth.
Speculation was that China or one of the gulf states might buy the BP share. Or that Russia would just seize it
BP share in Rosneft is not, officially, for sale yet; as posted above, it's being taken off the books re T/O and profit contribution.
BP board are yet to decide on how to divest.
As everyone else is sharing their best guesstimate, uneducated view on Global Politics and Warfare, I thought I'd join in.
I find it really interesting to see the social media aspect of this war, we've seen Models holding (airsoft) rifles urging others to join the fight, a Man with a fag hanging out of his mouth carrying a Mine, Russian war ships being told 'where to go' moments before they vaporized those who told them, and on the other side of the border, Protests in Russia with stories of protestors being rounded up, and now a run on Russian Banks. I don't know if it's fact or fiction, but the invasion does seem to be going especially badly for Russia.
I wouldn't even guess how this is all going to end, part of me thinks the safest resolution for the world as a whole, is Russia winning, terrible as that would be, but the alternative is us seeing just how far Putin will go, he's a 69 year old Megalomaniac, how does his Brain work? If the protests at home start to look like his might lose his grip on Power, would he value keeping it above, the lives of thousands, millions or billions? Is he really mad enough to Nuke Kyiv to show how strong he is? And what happens if he does?
Someone mentioned his firing a Nuke into the North Sea to show off? Maybe I've seen too many cold war films, but do they really wait until the Missile explodes before they retaliate? If a Russian ICBM launches towards the West, does Biden wait it out? Terrifying really.
Interesting development about Lithuania filing charges about War crimes. It'll be interesting to see how Putin reacts to a former satellite country behaving like this.
Someone mentioned his firing a Nuke into the North Sea to show off? Maybe I’ve seen too many cold war films, but do they really wait until the Missile explodes before they retaliate? If a Russian ICBM launches towards the West, does Biden wait it out? Terrifying really.
What would you do, personally just one, I wouldn't retaliate, I don't know how many would make me retaliate because it would be the retaliation that really triggers the wiping out of life on earth.
If you retaliate to a small number it guarantees escalation.
If you retaliate to a large number it is too late and is just pointless revenge.
Again unverified, but Russia now mobilising its reserve forces to apply overwhelming force to the cities. I would guess Kyiv would be the no 1 target.
If they have been holding back then I guess we will see in the next 48 hours whether Kyiv can hold out.
@chrismac, that's a pretty pessimistic set of opinions.
Western Media is at least free to peddle shite. For every Daily Mail there is a Financial Times. If you choose, you can get quality independent news when you need to. That's not the case in Russia.
Likewise, democracy. The UK Head of State is now a purely ceremonial role, evolving by convention over hundreds of years. There are no examples of a British Monarch interfering in politics for at least the last 100 years.
The Prime Minister will always be a democratically elected MP, so will have been subject to a genuinely free election within the previous five years. So it's one type of democracy and in practice works better than the Russian 'democracy' where any credible candidates are killed or imprisoned. Context is everything.
Sanctions will make many dubious investors unable to acquire cheap Russian assets. And commercial rationale is pretty obviously nothing to do with the divestment of BPs Rosneft stake. They'll take a huge £ hit and it will impact their balance sheet and operating revenues for years to come. Shareholder dividends will be at least decimated. Wait until next year's financial statements to see just what damage it will do. Maybe they jumped before they were pushed by government, but it's not a commercial decision.
I don't want to oversell the UK, but I believe that Putin and his like have gained huge but unwarranted credibility by denigrating Western values and basically saying 'they're no better than us'. It's BS.
Again unverified, but Russia now mobilising its reserve forces to apply overwhelming force to the cities
The RF doesn't yet have air superiority in Ukraine, and the reserve forces are just more badly trained 17-18 yr old kids who don't know anything...The numbers of RF causalities/dead so far - in the thousands if the reports are to be believed, it's is going to be a bloodbath if it comes down to urban fighting in a city the size of Kyiv (before the conflict started population of 2.9 million) with the numbers of citizens with weaponry, and with a real determination to fight.
Putin's enabling oligarchs have devoted their adult lives to state sponsored industrial scale kleptocracy.
They have a vested interest in retaining as much of their wealth as possible and maintaining their lifestyles.
This is being threatened by Putin's behaviour.
Do they, collectively, want to lose their gilded lifestyles?
That suggests one possible ending for Putin.
The Prime Minister will always be a democratically elected MP,
Unless your name is Sir Alec Douglas Home.
He's dead
Again unverified, but Russia now mobilising its reserve forces to apply overwhelming force to the cities
The RF doesn’t yet have air superiority in Ukraine, and the reserve forces are just more badly trained 17-18 yr old kids who don’t know anything
It's very difficult to know what is going on, but it does seem clear that Putin assumed it would be over by now. The internet is full of theories about what went wrong with Russia's plans. Some are obviously nonsense, some come from people who seem to have solid military experience.
One commentator observed that the Russian forces advance very quickly, but outran their logistics and didn't seem to have a second and third echelon to secure the countryside behind them. What he was saying was that you drive the advance troops in, but you have to keep pouring more troops in to secure the territory that you've captured. If you don't do this, you end up with an insurgency destroying your logistics and your first echelon gets cut off from resupply.
If Russia are going to be rushing reserve troops to the front to try and assault the cities, they will need huge convoys to keep resupplying them with fuel, ammunition, and food. Tanks and heavy equipment will burn through massive amounts of fuel and they are helpless if they run out. Without air superiority, protecting those convoys will be a problem. If Ukrainian special forces target fuel tankers with Javelin missiles or with drone strikes, that will cripple Russian tanks and infantry vehicles. Rushing more troops to the front will just make it worse because there will be more mouths to feed as they sit around waiting for ammunition and fuel deliveries. Air resupply will be very risky without air superiority.
So, yes, Russia could bombard the cities with artillery and rocket fire, but only if they can get fuel and ammunition delivered. Maybe they can, but nobody seems much impressed with their performance so far.
Edit: This for example.
https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1498103708151914498
going to be a bloodbath if it comes down to urban fighting in a city the size of Kyiv (before the conflict started population of 2.9 million) with the numbers of citizens with weaponry, and with a real determination to fight.
This is what worries me - if/when Putin flattens Kyiv with a nuke or carpet bombing or floods of Russian teenagers or whatever, he can say he's not killing innocent civilians because everyone's armed to the teeth and fighting Russians.
It's a bit of a difficult situation really. If the Ukrainian civilians are shooting Russians, then you can't really complain that Russians kill civilians (in response). If the Russians kill innocents, then you can say the Ukrainian fighters shouldn't be hiding amongst innocents.
Note I am not excusing Russia in any way shape or form here! Just pointing out some difficulties when civilians start shooting soldiers.
https://twitter.com/historyengland/status/1498228979395960837?s=21
The Times is behind a paywall, but this morning’s carton hits the spot nicely
If the Ukrainian civilians are shooting Russians, then you can’t really complain that Russians kill civilians (in response).
Yes, you absolutely can. Resistance and invasion are absolutely not the same thing.
Yes, you absolutely can. Resistance and invasion are absolutely not the same thing.
Fair enough. Still different from people running away, schoolchildren, etc etc... Doesn't make it remotely right but does change public perception, which they may use to their advantage.
Well, at least try to. Or fool themselves with it. Don't think anyone will listen to Russian excuses at this point.
According to the Guardian feed, Roman Abramovhic is in Belarus trying to broker a peace deal.
He is 69 year old. I doubt he will live forever.
Ah so you meant die not retire. I'm 68 and like to think I have a good few years left so don't bank on him keeling over through natural causes any time soon.
Assisted dying?
Assisted dying?
Doorknob related contamination?
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<div class="bbp-reply-author d-flex align-items-center flex-wrap"><span class="bbp-author-name">andrewreay</span>
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<div class="bbp-reply-content p-0">@chrismac, that’s a pretty pessimistic set of opinions.
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I prefer realistic and disagree with many of your answers but wont her because it distracts from the theme of the thread
https://twitter.com/scribblercat/status/1498263145650999296?t=wcXEprVUpPkiVMBLUGf6fg&s=19
Oh Lizz...
No you are right, there is no solution in this other than a diplomatic one, but more than likely only if it lists towards what Russia wants.
I think the solution lies internally, within Russia.
I think the solution lies internally, within Russia.
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1498269150543810563?t=-TiBkdH_0jyWevbM1lncyw&s=19
I'm guessing this wasn't part of Russia's plan.
https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1498262444921208832
It appears that the finance director for Gazprom "has been found dead by suicide in St Petersburg"
Can't get a link to work
If you're interested in how Russian state telly is broadcasting the fighting in Ukraine, Francis Scarr's twitter feed is quite revelatory
https://twitter.com/francska1/status/1498271899004157956
I’ve not commented on this thread yet, but have been following it and other sources and I’m as concerned as everyone else. Terrible situation.
However, answer me this. How can idiots like Truss et al, be let anywhere near this world-changing situation? They probably truly believe they are qualified but one slip of the tongue and this sort of nightmare happens. Of course, he was looking to blame someone, but diplomacy skills are subtle and avoid mistakes like this. The muppets in our government don’t know the meaning of subtlety.
This is truly terrifying and the likes of Truss need to have everything they say scripted by skilled, intelligent people.
It appears that the finance director for Gazprom “has been found dead by suicide in St Petersburg”
who knows?
Unfortunately we collectively for them
How can idiots like Truss et al, be let anywhere near this world-changing situation?
With the talk of Belarus joining the war, does anyone know where anything about their military? Doesn't seem like Russian soldiers know what they are fighting for, or even that they are in Ukraine which must be contributing to their lack of success. Will Lukashenko's soldiers do any better?
I wonder what the exit strategy for Putin could be? Based on current events, even if the Russian army could take Kyiv and install a puppet leadership, it would take months to control the whole country and require hundreds of thousands of troops to police the country. Would recognition by Ukraine that Donetsk and Luhansk are independent be enough for Putin to backdown and declare a victory?
In Richard Dannatt's autobiography, he discuses how during the cold war, the consensus was that the Soviet Union's weight of numbers would allow them to overrun conventional NATO forces in almost any scenario. Putin's strategical view, informed by cold war thinking, probably thought that weight of numbers and superior tanks would just roll over opposition. As others have commented, tanks on the modern battlefield are sitting targets for modern anti-tank rockets that can be carried on foot and are particularly vulnerable in urban environments.
Excellent thread on the conundrum that Russian elites are in:
https://twitter.com/ggatehouse/status/1498270841326518272
It you’re wondering whether it is a good idea to have that many vehicles packed together in a single line while Ukraine still has TB2 UCAVs and ground-attack aircraft in operation, the answer is no.
Did they do it?
Seems like a tactical winner for the Ukranians, and low risk politicaly.
Master tactician that i am, i would have been all over that.
Do they have any A10 warthogs?
Brrrrrrrt!
I dont see Putin being able to retreat back into Russia and being left alone by NATO as if nothing had happened, surely?
Win or lose this battle, the Cold war is back?
Sadly no Warthogs and, as much as this type of warfare was what they were designed for, this is probably thirty years too far into the future for them to operate without getting shot to shit. They might have new wings and electronics and fancy bombs with pilots that seem to really like flying super-low, but they still fly slow and would be (I think) easy pickings for the SU-37 and the air defense that the Russians have.
With the Liz Truss thing, the world is actually breathing a sigh of relief now that is revealed that they were just trolling Britain rather than threatening Armageddon.
"This is truly terrifying and the likes of Truss need to have everything they say scripted by skilled, intelligent people."
Because of Brexit the damage she can do is limited. We usually say words have consequences but if nobody's listening then not so much.
I wonder if the Ukranians will offer asylum to any Belarussian troops who want to surrender?
Perhaps offer them citizenship if they join the Ukranian army and help fight the Russians in the East?
This would be Apache Longbow territory. Sit in the weeds with the dome above the trees & take out the lot.
A-10s are great for poor people wars. This is t their theatre anymore. Although saying that, there was footage of a Frogfoot seemingly just shrugging off being hit by a missile the other day
More drone than Apache territory these days, loitering way up there is better than behind some trees. Especially when you might have the same Hellfires
Olly
Free Member
It you’re wondering whether it is a good idea to have that many vehicles packed together in a single line while Ukraine
I was wondering whether it's a sign that the lack of air superiority is a bit of a lie tbh? Russia must mostly control the skies above those columns.
I wonder if the Ukranians will offer asylum to any Belarussian troops who want to surrender?
https://twitter.com/lindakinstler/status/1498290330881384448
This would be Apache Longbow territory.
Sadly no Warthogs
(And endless other NATO country weapons and fighters)
It does make you wonder, if Putin really did hit the nuclear button, would NATO non nuclear weapons simply obliterate the Russian and Belarusian forces and sites within a few days? And I don't just mean in Ukraine - I think they would start there and work East... And NATO capabilities seem so much better - things like an A10 or Apache would wipe-out a dozen vehicles at a time. Reload, go back and repeat until there are no more bullets. A few more planes and all the airfields and air defence systems are gone in southern Russia and Belarus...
It does seem that NATO and European countries are literally 'manning the ramparts' and putting in place all the logistics of a big response. Flight radar is showing so many spy planes and fuel planes, as well as occasional drones. French and US aircraft carriers are nearby. I suspect that there may be a few folk inside Russia and Belarus with various UK, French, Polish (etc) accents with some targets being viewed in the binoculars. Just in case.
The Truss thing is designed to split the Western unity.
Truss suggesting that a few British joining the Ukrainian foreign legion is enough to put the Russians on nuclear readiness - let's not credit that smoke screen - though its a warning rather loose talk costs lives, I guess.
With the Liz Truss thing, the world is actually breathing a sigh of relief now that is revealed that they were just trolling Britain rather than threatening Armageddon.
There's a certain irony there that the Russians, with the help of some obligingly stupid people like Cummings and a bit of time on Facebook, essentially coordinated and delivered Brexit and now they're trolling Britain for not being part of the EU.
It appears that the finance director for Gazprom “has been found dead by suicide in St Petersburg”
That's the trouble with those 'two bullets in the back of the head' suicides, can be hard to identify the person afterwards.
I wonder what the exit strategy for Putin could be?
I wonder if the strategy is simply to annexe a land corridor to Crimea by taking the regions curently in question, rather than the whole of Ukraine.
West could claim victory by preventing the entire counrty being overrun, And Putin would have accomplished a significant land grab. win win.
However the sanctions look like they are going to totaly cripple Russia, in just a day teh Ruble is in free fall and thier central bank has put up interest rates from circa 5% to circa 25% - that's going to be crippling for Russia if it's kept up.
Sun-Tzu paraphrase - why risk open war when you can strangle thier economy and win by not firing a single shot?
If anyone in power had any sense Liz Truss would be locked in a cupboard for the duration.
willard
Full MemberSadly no Warthogs and, as much as this type of warfare was what they were designed for, this is probably thirty years too far into the future for them to operate without getting shot to shit.
My understanding is that both sides are using SU25s- pretty similar role. Though the russians have definitely been losing them.
I wonder if the strategy is simply to annexe a land corridor to Crimea by taking the regions curently in question, rather than the whole of Ukraine.
That's been my completely uneducated guess from the start. Basically, a motorway to Sevastopol. As opposed to, would-you-like-a-game-of-global-thermonuclear-warfare?
Have seen Sun Tzu quoted a lot in the last few days! Mostly in relation to what the Russians aren’t doing, rather than what they are.
I think the current peace talks will achieve nothing, but if the Ukrainians can hold out long enough then there may be another round leading to at least a temporary cease fire.
As others have said I really can’t see his end game here - let’s assume eventually he does take the cities, then what - he will have to police an entirely hostile population which will take many tens, if not hundreds of thousands of troops.
Also the gloves seem to be really coming off now, with reports of mass rocket attacks on civilian districts in Kharkiv.
Perhaps the solution lies within Putin rather than within Russia. He's a power crazed tyrant. Currently the Russians don't seem to be conducting a blanket bombing style assault such as they did in Grozny so relatively low civilian casualties. If their campaign remains bogged down they might turn to that. If they do start to target civilians with bombing campaigns resistance is likely to crumble. However if the resistance remains strong despite high civilian casualties, what does Putin turn to next? It is important to leave Putin with a way out that is acceptable to him or do we just hope he is assassinated?
Regarding the Gazprom suicide, whichever of them it was.
How close to Putin was he?
Was he perhaps the first person to suggest that Mr President might wish to have a bit a rethink?
If so is this
Good because people are finally starting to stand up to, or least question him?
Bad because that's what happens to them and might presumably put others off?
.
Unless it actually was suicide of course
The thing is that he doesn’t actually have a big button on his desk that launches the missiles. All he can do is to send orders to the guys in the missile silos and submarines to launch. They have to confirm that it is a genuine order and then cooperate to actually fire the missiles.
You’ve kinda backed up my point though… There is protocol. The protocol being that one person doesn’t have a big red button! He needs access to launch codes that the other person has in their custody, and they are hundreds of miles away and need to be willing to use them.
Do they have any A10 warthogs?
In the context of this war, think of an A10 as an airborne tank and you will realise just how useful they would be… Impressive as the A10 was in its time, the world has moved on. The last few days have proved just how effective personal anti aircraft and anti tank weapons are. This is not a war for slow moving, lumbering machinery.
It does seem that NATO and European countries are literally ‘manning the ramparts’ and putting in place all the logistics of a big response. Flight radar is showing so many spy planes and fuel planes, as well as occasional drones. French and US aircraft carriers are nearby.
All comes back to the 7P’s and a reinforcement of earlier conversations about logistics… NATO would not make the same mistake!
Was he perhaps the first person to suggest that Mr President might wish to have a bit a rethink?
Unless it actually was suicide of course
Is there a difference?
It is easier for a Russian oligarch to enter the House of Lords than for a Ukrainian refugee to enter the Kingdom of Great Britain! From the first book of Johnson. shamelessly stolen.
It appears that the finance director for Gazprom “has been found dead by suicide in St Petersburg”
Shot 3 times in the chest?
Tripped and fell on his gun? 😉
Shot 3 times in the chest?
Perhaps the solution lies within Putin rather than within Russia.
Maybe, maybe not. He’s done a sterling job of shoring up popular support in Russia over the last 2 decades, but I wonder how long that would last if and when Russian citizens start questioning why the rest of the world is supporting a “Nazi regime” and start seeking the alternative versions of the truth… 🤔
As for Lukashenko… The man is nuts! He’s clinging on to power in Belarus by the end of his fingernails, and only because Putin stepped in to help there. Belarus has overwhelming popular support for any opposition, he is universally hated but only accepted because they can’t get rid of him because of Putin propping him up. If I were a Belorussian solider being sent to war in Ukraine right now (usefully their vehicles are being marked with red squares at least!), I would be finding the first opportunity to surrender myself and my weapons. I can see Poland and many other Eastern European countries offering an olive branch to any Belorussian troops who choose to defect almost immediately!
The world might have moved on but there doesn't seem to have been anything developed that can replace an A10.
BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT!
On Kharkiv, PCA is now saying weapons in use are cluster bombs, illegal under international law to use in civilian areas. Not confirmed yet, but if true a sign of increasing desperation.
Putin’s strategical view, informed by cold war thinking, probably thought that weight of numbers and superior tanks would just roll over opposition.
I think the relatively small numbers of troops that he'd massed at the border only make sense in that scenario - that he wasn't expected to have to fight a war. To add some perspective; Operation Barbarossa was 3.2 million German front line troops...There just hasn't been anything like the numbers of RF troops to do any actual proper war fighting in a country the size of Ukraine. Putin totally expected to roll into town, have the Ukrainians surrender, and install puppet regime by tea-time.
(And endless other NATO country weapons and fighters)
It does make you wonder, if Putin really did hit the nuclear button, would NATO non nuclear weapons simply obliterate the Russian and Belarusian forces and sites within a few days? And I don’t just mean in Ukraine – I think they would start there and work East… And NATO capabilities seem so much better – things like an A10 or Apache would wipe-out a dozen vehicles at a time. Reload, go back and repeat until there are no more bullets. A few more planes and all the airfields and air defence systems are gone in southern Russia and Belarus…
It does seem that NATO and European countries are literally ‘manning the ramparts’ and putting in place all the logistics of a big response. Flight radar is showing so many spy planes and fuel planes, as well as occasional drones. French and US aircraft carriers are nearby. I suspect that there may be a few folk inside Russia and Belarus with various UK, French, Polish (etc) accents with some targets being viewed in the binoculars. Just in case.
Ukraine seem to have access to Drones, there was a video on Sky News of them destroying a Russian Missile battery with one.
It begs the question for me, the US, EU and seemingly every nation west of them are offering 'Lethal Aid' at what point does that become joining in? If the US offers them attack drones, are they handed over to Ukraine, or are they still piloted from Las Vegas?
The thing that worries me is that frustration may see the RF army deploy a low-yield nuke to erase large swathes of the Ukrainian resistance. Even if it is 0.5 kt, the fact that fissile materials caused an explosion could be enough to trigger a nuclear response. Or would NATO ignore a tidgy nuke?
This guy has a popular Youtube channel exploring Russia and former USSR territories. He's just left Kyiv.
The US won't be handing over control of those UCAV's to anyone. They're assets they don't relinquish control of.
If the US offers them attack drones, are they handed over to Ukraine, or are they still piloted from Las Vegas
First the Germans reverse decades of arms policy - now the Swiss agree to impose all EU sanctions...
I've just read that Ukraine is releasing prisoners with military experience to go and fight in the 'hot spots.'
I also read that Putin is shipping in some of his Wagner mercenaries from Africa, presumably to pick up where the Chechens signed out.
I'm sure Ukraine is getting its hands on a lot of shared intelligence and I wonder if they are tracking flights from Africa right now in order to arrange a rendezvous between the two groups?
The drones are Turkish I believe, flown by Ukrainians, and I think I read that they are a Russian design!
Also Switzerland has just rolled and implemented sanctions. They didn’t even do that with Hitler.
@timbog160 Aye, purchased a while back. The Ukrainians sent a load of their personnel to Turkey for training, some phots knocking around the web.
The drones the Ukrainians are using are Turkish designed and mainly Turkish manufactured there may have been some British and Canadian components
Been a lot of talk about how good these TB2 drones are. I just saw this:
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1498306133894832128
Here's the wiki page for the drones. But.... what makes them so good? They don't go fast, they don't go high, and they have a range that would be openly scorned in the electric car thread. Is it that they are small on radar? Quick to launch and land?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baykar_Bayraktar_TB2#Performance
I did jokingly wonder if the US could round up a few Ukrainians in the States, give them a crash course in Drone piloting, then after a bit of paintwork on those Predators get them to work out in Ukraine. In a way doesn't seem much different to giving a Ukrainian a Javelin but I get why it's not going to happen.