Holy Gish Galloping Shit Post Batman
I am certain Russia will agree because they too know it is not an easy war in Ukraine.
I'm sure they will.
They've gained ground on sovereign Ukrainian territory, they've access to warm water port that wasn't theirs, they're on thier knees in many ways.
They can take a break.
And next year decide to have another 'special military operation' over any land or country that fits thier view of the world.
Too early to tell if this is actually it though, we’ll see I guess
It's being reported on the Beeb, who are super cautious about putting anything out so it's a good chance that the offensive has started
Holy Gish Galloping Shit Post Batman
LOL! I know it's over simplification but the fact is that the war has not managed to produce any winner(s) yet.
The question you need to ask is why West/NATO has not stepped in yet if Russia is weak or dated or Russia withdraw if Ukraine is winning?
Ukraine
chewkw
Free Member
Holy Gish Galloping Shit Post BatmanLOL! I know it’s over simplification but the fact is that the war has not managed to produce any winner(s) yet.
The question you need to ask is why West/NATO has not stepped in yet if Russia is weak or dated or Russia withdraw if Ukraine is winning?
very much early days, if this current attack is successful, it's still only the start of a long campaign.
let Ukraine be the buffet zone
Making Moldova the Waffle Station and Belarus the Salad Bar?
Moldova sounds the better choice
I see the Biden the other day also decided it was time to give the Ukraine operation a name, dunno what it is yet. But it seems to be a fairly significant commitment. They've appointed a general to oversee too.
The question you need to ask is why West/NATO has not stepped in yet if Russia is weak
This demonstrates your lack of understanding of global politics.
It's still 'a special operation' to use Russias words.
Ukraine is not in NATO, but are strategically important, long term.
If NATO gets openly involved in defense of a non-NATO country, and likewise if Russsia attacks a NATO country, it ceases to be a 'special operation', and becomes all out international open war, WW3 if you like.
One thing that has occured, that surely can't be lost on the Russians, is thier act of agression has focused the minds of some Scandi countries and some ex-soviet but now soverign countries, to get straight on the phone to NATO asking for application forms.
Russia has no way out of this. They can either:
A) Escalate into all out international open warfare.
B) Quiety de-escalate and sod off back to the motherland.
Making Moldova the Waffle Station and Belarus the Salad Bar?
Finland, Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia are the dessert area.
This demonstrates your lack of understanding of global politics.
The elephant is in the room. LOL!
Even if NATO/US/West are "not" directly involved they are already involved by supplying arms and training to Ukraine.
It’s still ‘a special operation’ to use Russias words.
They can call whatever they wish but the fact is they are killing each others.
Ukraine is not in NATO, but are strategically important, long term.
Yes, that's the problem. i.e. "strategically important". Why strategically important? To encircle Russia? Why?
One thing that has occured, that surely can’t be lost on the Russians, is thier act of agression has focused the minds of some Scandi countries and some ex-soviet but now soverign countries, to get straight on the phone to NATO asking for application forms.
With current Finnish PM I would advice them to join NATO asap because she really lacks experience in the grand scheme of things. She should fire her advisors as they are not any good too.
Russia has no way out of this. They can either:
A) Escalate into all out international open warfare.
B) Quiety de-escalate and sod off back to the motherland.
Not bothered whether they can or cannot get out and if all parties wish to to go war with each others so be it. Pride and ego are very strong on both sides.
let Ukraine be the buffet zone
Making Moldova the Waffle Station and Belarus the Salad Bar?
LOL! Typo! Not deliberate. Should be "buffer zone" not "buffet zone".
But now that you have mentioned it Ukraine sounds like a "buffet zone" for "NATO" and Russia.
Yes, that’s the problem. i.e. “strategically important”. Why strategically important? To encircle Russia? Why?
Again you show your ignorance, Russia attacked Ukraine, un-provoked.
No one is trying to 'encircle' Russia.
Do you realise how huge the agricultural industry is in Ukraine? Many countries rely on them for grain for animal feed and other agricultural products in vast quantities.
If that fell into russian hands, we wouldn't only be worried about gas prices, we'd be worried (even more) about food prices also.
Why do you think pretty much all of the EU, the UK and the US are falling all over each other to arm the Ukrainians to the teeth through the back door?
I'll give you a hint, it's not because of charity.
Yes, that’s the problem. i.e. “strategically important”. Why strategically important? To encircle Russia? Why?
Easy, all the evidence points to them being a massive bunch of untrustworthy, thieving, murdering rapists. Exactly the sort that need encircling.
https://www.youtube.com/c/1420channel/videos
Quite an interesting Channel this yin, just for listening to the opinions of russians on the streets.
Do you realise how huge the agricultural industry is in Ukraine? Many countries rely on them for grain for animal feed and other agricultural products in vast quantities.
This sounds like a case of both parties wanting Ukraine because of their resources? It is always fighting for resources as usual.
In that case you need to fight for it, while the rest of the questions regarding moral, aggressors etc are irrelevant.
If that fell into russian hands, we wouldn’t only be worried about gas prices, we’d be worried (even more) about food prices also.
That never worries anyone in the past until recently and I wonder why? Because Russia is gaining ground in world market and economically?
Why do you think pretty much all of the EU, the UK and the US are falling all over each other to arm the Ukrainians to the teeth through the back door?
Well, that's because they want a piece of the pie too and fearing the fact that they losing control economically on the world stage.
Easy, all the evidence points to them being a massive bunch of untrustworthy, thieving, murdering rapists. Exactly the sort that need encircling.
Who told you the West are trustworthy? Go check history. You have No ground to stand on this at all. LOL! Very simple thieves are thieves and they know each other because they are alike. Also the intelligent thieves will use persuasion while the less capable brute force, either way they are thieves.
Quite an interesting Channel this yin, just for listening to the opinions of russians on the streets.
Yeh, seen a few of those back early on. No idea how representative it really is.
Anyway, back to to purposeful disruption...(not that its having any influence)
This sounds like a case of both parties wanting Ukraine because of their resources?
Well yes but one of the parties is Ukraine and the other is Not Ukraine soooo
I think this thread pretty much nails why Hitchen's is talking utter nonsense. Ukraine won't negotiate unless things go very, very badly for them, but Putin won't negotiate if things are going very, very badly for Ukraine. The only negotiate peace that is possible is if Ukraine inflicts a major defeat on Russia and Russia has no choice but to accept that they cannot win.
https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1564285340084477954
I'm not sure anyone would accept a guarantee of peace from putin.
He wasn't happy just taking crimea..
I think for better or worse the buck needs to stop now.
CNN reporting that Ukraine has retaken several villages near Kherson.
A UA source:
"The main direction of the attack was on Pravdyne. We hit their infantry from the DNR (Donetsk People's Republic) and LNR (Luhansk People's Republic), and they fled. The Russian landing force fled after them," the source told CNN."
Make of it what you will I guess.
I’m not sure anyone would accept a guarantee of peace from putin.
He wasn’t happy just taking crimea..I think for better or worse the buck needs to stop now.
Theyve been taking chunks out of there neighbours for long enough now under Putin why would any neighbour trust any guarantee.
I’m not sure anyone would accept a guarantee of peace from putin.
I'm sure Donald Trump would, but you mean nobody who isn't an utter fool, right?
Reposting because it went unanswered.
Again you show your ignorance, Russia attacked Ukraine, un-provoked.
No one is trying to ‘encircle’ Russia.
Say what?
With current Finnish PM I would advice them to join NATO asap because she really lacks experience in the grand scheme of things.
Not what you said before.
Citation please.
She should fire her advisors as they are not any good too.
I think this thread pretty much nails why Hitchen’s is talking utter nonsense.
He has form, quite a bit in fact.
Can we all just agree hitchens is a dick and move on from him. 😆
Can we all just agree hitchens is a dick and move on from him.
DrJ's the person you need to take that up with.
DrJ
Free Member
I feel a bit unclean saying this, but I think there is some truth in what Peter Hitchens writes here:
Innocent and scared civilians moving out the way of an unjust war that they had no say in.
To call them 'rats' is rather distasteful.
iirc
Early on in this war, some people inside Russia had the belief that Ukraine was going to invade Russia. God knows what horse shit theyre being fed now, probably that the 6th SS Panzer Army is crossing the border.
Thats all assuming theres anything unusual in terms of people movement going on at all.
Wonder if many of those are poor conscripts deserting.
Probably the Russian version of us panic buying toilet roll.
Vladimir Putin has lost confidence in his defence minister and has sidelined him just as Ukraine launches its biggest counter-offensive of the war.
Media reports backed up by Western intelligence said that the Russian president had ordered his military commanders to report to him directly rather than to Sergei Shoigu, whom he blames for the stalled invasion of Ukraine.
Putin and Mr Shoigu had been considered close allies but iStories, a Russian investigative reporting outlet, said that this bond had now fractured.
“Relations between Putin and Shoigu have changed so much that the defence minister does not even dare to promote decisions that the military considers necessary,” it said, quoting sources in the defence ministry
Always good to have well publicised schisms at the top when your army is facing its first major counter-offensive. From the Telegraph
Russia is struggling to find more soldiers to fight in Ukraine and has expanded recruitment efforts by eliminating the upper age limit and by tapping into prisons. “Many of these new recruits have been observed as older, unfit and ill-trained,” a Pentagon official told journalists on Monday. Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin, decreed last week that his army would increase by about 10%, to 1.15 million servicemen, starting January next year
And this from the Grauniad. If they really have scrapped upper age limits entirely, should we now be referring to them as Vlad's army?
If that's true, then the parallels with the last Tsar of Russia are getting bigger. If the war goes badly and he is personally directing it, maybe that will blow back on him.
Sorry, "special operation".
"Don't tell him your name Pyotr Papanpechenko!"
If that’s true, then the parallels with the last Tsar of Russia are getting bigger. If the war goes badly and he is personally directing it, maybe that will blow back on him.Sorry, “special operation”.
Possibly the most dangerous scenario in terms of Tactical Nuclear Weapons being used. A point where a desperation to stop the fighting with the ground still held sways the choices. Although that in turn really forces a hardening on the Wests choices once that Genie is released.
If that (completely guessed at) scenario is anywhere near reality, perhaps that also links in with Chinas comments about the nuclear power plant being a hint of their position. (Also completely guessed at)
And this from the Grauniad. If they really have scrapped upper age limits entirely, should we now be referring to them as Vlad’s army?
For balance, any Ukrainian soldiers we see are probably selected for image management. You’ll be shown the Brick ****house with face tattoos, not Baz the cleaner at the cardboard box factory.
Ukraine mobilised all men 18-60 right from the start
https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-president-orders-general-mobilization/a-60908996
This makes sense to me. I can't see Ukraine wanting to suffer heavy casualties, more likely to probe the Russian defenses and see if they collapse or resist, then decide whether to push further.
https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/1564516123076399104
Can we all just agree hitchens is a dick and move on from him. 😆
Absolutely no doubt that Peter Hitchens is a weapons grade knob, but that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t make a couple of valid points (probably by accident), namely that we don’t choose our allies because of their pretty faces or human rights records (Saddam, Taliban, Israel, Saudi - to name but a few) so our outrage about Putin is somewhat selective, and secondly that despite the pompous pronouncements of armchair experts wars often end in unpleasant compromise so don’t be surprised if this one does too.
despite the pompous pronouncements of armchair experts wars often end in unpleasant compromise so don’t be surprised if this one does too.
1. That doesn't mean that any compromise is worth it.
2. It doesn't mean that wars can never end with the good guys comprehensively beating the bad guys.
The other major problem is the implicit assumption that Ukraine has no agency in all this. Ukraine is fighting because they decided to, not because the West instructed them to. Telling Ukraine that they should accept a deal is pointless - they have made it very clear that they do not trust Putin and will not accept any peace treaty that leaves Russian armies on Ukrainian territory.
namely that we don’t choose our allies because of their pretty faces or human rights records
If it wasnt for the US siding with a bunch of Imperialist nations, wed all be speaking German.
#godwins
https://wartranslated.com/day-187-august-29-summary-of-arestovych-and-feygin-daily-broadcast/
The UAF started small counteroffensive
But who TF knows really
https://twitter.com/navalny/status/1564576533783748609?s=20
Website looks nice, not sure it’s making any difference mind you
I believe the people who started this war are bandits and criminals. The fact that they are bombing people simply to continue stealing means that I’ve done everything right since 2011 — when I created Anti-Corruption Foundation to fight this criminal regime.
Everything has a price, and now, in the spring of 2022, we must pay this price. There's no one to do it for us. Let’s not “be against the war.” Let’s fight against the war.
Aleхei Navalny
I suspect that this is quite likely correct - this is not intended to be a huge breakthrough but just a shaping operation to prepare for a bigger offensive later. Guess we'll know more in a few weeks.
https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/1564870603944955905
I was reading that basically we are looking till about about mid october to see winter conditions start to set it.
I'm not really sure about shaping operations they've been at that for weeks, but I would temper expectation of any quick result. It's still going to be a long long grind to shift the Russians, even if they are backed against the river(Conditions that don't exist elsewhere in the country, so difficult to extrapolate what happens here to the rest of the country). Looking for slow steady progress over the next couple of months, rather than a quick liberation of Kherson. We'll have a better idea mid October rather than in a few weeks I think.
Then I guess we'll be heading for months of speculations over the winter about what happens in the spring, whether that is positive or negative, probably depends on the outcome here over the next 6 weeks/2 months.
Do the rivers freeze enough to move troops, artillery or tanks along them?
