This would seem to pose a problem for the Russian navy.
https://twitter.com/Orion__int/status/1486024618700075009
You would have imagined that with the thousands of missiles and bombs dropped by Russia, that somebody would have thought to destroy the factory that makes anti ship missiles before now!
I think its because they obviously know what actually happened and are insanely furious BUT can’t actually express the true reason for that rage as it goes against the official kremlin lie… so are effectively arguing themselves into some sort of enraged paradox.
It’s really something to witness isn’t it?
I think you're giving them too much credit!
They do something, then throw out as much random shit as they can to muddy the waters.
They attacked because of NATO
They attacked because of the Nazis
They didn't attack, the Ukrainians bombed themselves to make Russia look bad
Nobody attacked anything, it's all propaganda
Etc etc etc
Some of it will be believed by some credulous idiot or other, who cares?
Even trying to find a logical position in their firehose of lies is playing into their game.
According to the official Russian state media, the warship did indeed f*** itself.
Watched Operator Starsky video where they take apart a Russian drone.
The thing that stuck out was how reliant they are, even for something very basic, on foreign kit.
Japanese tech (IR or night vision which is from Honda, Camera Canon EOS D800, motor).
No idea where that stuff is actually manufactured mind you.
Edit, turns out Canon have/had 1 factory in China which is closing/closed. So depending on what happens with the tooling the factory could just carry on making clones/fakes.
Most Russians believe any BS they are fed because that is all they get pumped at them from cradle to grave.
So Russia can devastate vast tracts of Ukraine but dare they attack Russia it's a red flag. Pathetic savage nation.
https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1515077927016222724?s=20&t=mBjOewW83AadBHIcXmPxMQ
(From a Ukrainian source)
I'm a bit dubious about that. The UK had training teams in Ukraine for a long time before the war training on NLAW amongst other things, they withdrew before the war. They will have 'trained the trainers', so the Ukrainians could deliver it themselves. Openly using UK special forces in theatre to conduct low level training seems highly unlikely to me. There would be little value in it and it would be highly provocative to have NATO boots so openly on the ground. If there really was a need for it, it could be delivered in a neighbouring country by regular infantry, it's not an SF specific bit of kit.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are SF advisers in Ukraine, but they will be maintaining a very low profile and doing more strategic stuff than hands on NLAW training IMO.
I agree and this feels like simply internet tittle tattle. If they are there we will never get to know about it - until one of them writes a book that is 😂
I’m a bit dubious about that
Hence the bit in parentheses.
Hard to tell if it’s pure cobblers, misdirection, partly true or whatever.
They don’t seem averse to waving a shiny thing to distract whilst doing something else.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there are SF advisers in Ukraine, but they will be maintaining a very low profile and doing more strategic stuff than hands on NLAW training IMO.
Ant's conspicuous by his absence in the current series of SAS Who Dares Wins, and I've not seen Bear or Lofty for ages. Makes you think.
Notably, now there's a real war on Grant Mitchell's committed to a quiz show every evening on BBC. Typical.
.
If we have got trainers in boots on the ground, as it were, pretty stupid of the Ukranians to be posting about it.
I'm sure all sides probably know about it already, but the Russians donseem to like giving their noses rubbed in it.
Too late to edit, should have said
The Russians don't seem to like having their noses rubbed in it
^ this.
Awful.
Yet there's the same number and more civilians dying in Ukraine in a 'special operation' that makes no sense.
I am old enough to remember when the Belgrano was sunk and over 300 sailors perished*. When I first heard about the Moskva, my thoughts turned to that, and the very mixed feelings I had at the time. I hope most of the sailors on board the Moskva survived, but it seems inevitable that many didn't.
* In terms of the legality and military usefulness of the attack, the situation with the Moskva is of course far more clear-cut.
Greyspoke, aye I remember that also. There are what? 500 or so sailors on the Moscow, and by all accounts there were only 54 survivors. I know there were rough seas which hampered the rescue efforts, but that's still a huge loss of life
I remember the Belgrano too. I was a junior soldier in training and (just) too young to deploy to FI. I did a tour there a few years later in '86. Despite my youth, ignorance and gung ho attitude, I remember being sickened by the loss of life on the Belgrano (and the Sheffield, Galahad etc) and in particular the revolting jingoistic headline in the Sun celebrating it. It created a loathing of that publication that remains to this day.
I have a similar feeling about the Moskva. Naval warfare is brutal and the loss of life can be staggering. In the context of the current war, it was a legitimate target and its loss has made Odessa and the south of Ukraine a lot safer and indirectly saved Ukrainian lives. But the sheer loss of life is awful to contemplate. War is shit. All because of an old man's ego.
and in particular the revolting jingoistic headline in the Sun celebrating it. It created a loathing of that publication that remains to this day.
Snap! I remember exactly when I first saw the headline, I was on the tube going in to college, opposite someone who was reading it. Really, that was an editorial decision so I mainly blame Kelvin Mackenzie. As always, he sunk to the occasion.
and in particular the revolting jingoistic headline in the Sun celebrating it. It created another loathing of that publication that remains to this day.
If there really was a need for it, it could be delivered in a neighbouring country by regular infantry, it’s not an SF specific bit of kit.
As happened for Starstreak where it was stated they were trained in a "Eastern European country"
Aside from anything else it makes sense to do the training in a safe area not likely to be bombed/struck by missiles.
Yeah, but any mention of UKSF and what follows in certain circles is an olympic level ****-fest.
The meeja are the worst for it, they get a sniff and they're a persistent annoyance trying to get deets, disappointing if someone from the Ukrainian side of the fence has been spinning dits in earshot of the wrong people.
and in particular the revolting jingoistic headline in the Sun celebrating it.
A rare statement from me but to be fair to the sun they dont seem to have known what had happened.
The subheading is "hole cruiser" which gives an idea of what they thought happened. Once more reports came in that it had sunk and the likelihood is that a large number of people had died the headline was changed.
Whilst I think most people would know the headline only some might have seen it in the local corner shop. It was only in the northern early edition. In the South printing time was late enough that it was corrected and in the north it got changed later on.
Another horrific chapter of this war: forcibly deported Ukranian citizens being sent the the four corners of Russia. Detention in military facilities, including ex chemical weapons stores:
https://inews.co.uk/news/mariupol-ukraine-russia-war-leonidovka-putin-1579199
So Russia can devastate vast tracts of Ukraine but dare they attack Russia it’s a red flag. Pathetic savage
nationregime.
Its not your Joe public Russian making this happen.
There was a report that the children have been separated from their families and are being forced to learn Russian.
Not sure if it's 100%
Russia really is losing on a global scale now with this bull coming out of the state sponsored news its just way past fanciful. when the 500 odd sailors don't come home from duty they will have to inject mother's with sedatives on live tv just like when the mursk sank and Putin abandoned the poor buggers.
And are they so far out of step that banning Theresa May is a viable sanction?
Even reports of blowing up the 4g masts in Ukraine then not being able to use secure communications as it needs 4g
There appears to be some information about Moskva survivors on this Twitter thread (on the BBC's rolling feed, but no point in linking to that).
Well yes but are they actually Moskva survivors?
It's weird, you just can't believe anything that comes out of Russia, the way it sank, or whatever the story is, just doesn't seem to add up, and now the survivors being wheeled out and on parade like this, again, is it the Moskva crew or another, there is just no belief in what they are peddling.
As for the sinking, again, still no real understanding, just embarrassment for the Russians, if it was a fire in a magazine then it's horrific that it took down the ship, the UK and many others learnt from the HMS Hood disaster on this front, to minimise the risk of an entire ship being taken out by one hit, fire or damage.
is it the Moskva crew or another, there is just no belief in what they are peddling.
Exactly.
There's some proper information war going on.
The truth will out someday.
Its not your Joe public Russian making this happen.
Really? I'm sure the Russian Joe Public do have an Inkling, more so than Nazi Germany.
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/9F9S3kpS/Moskva.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/9F9S3kpS/Moskva.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
Caher
Full MemberIts not your Joe public Russian making this happen.
Really? I’m sure the Russian Joe Public do have an Inkling, more so than Nazi Germany.
It's an interesting question isn't it?
I suspect the younger generations might be a little less accepting of the official kremlin line.
Older generations, relying more on TV for news and also likely to "romanticise" the Soviet era, like Putin, I would think are likely to believe the Kremlin line far more. Though that lady in her 70/80's that is regularly protesting against the war shows how complex it really is over there.
What do I know though is I wouldn't express a dissenting opinion if I was over there, I'm not even close to being that brave. Those anti war protestors are incredibly brave and show that not all hope is lost for the future of Russia.
As I said very early on in this thread, I used to speak daily to colleagues in Russia and they knew what was going in the world. Some of those I spoke to would make Farage wince.
FWIW I've been blocked on Twitter by John Pilger for insinuating that his "unbiased" sources are hippo-shit.
https://twitter.com/wardcarroll/status/1515096747944685568?t=l945rqk7_aEQ1PEoSmdl0w&s=19
Jesus
Literally
https://twitter.com/KarloTakki/status/1515112492753723394?t=gt2G30uqhxbIpcNvTLZeuQ&s=19
Seems to be some doubt it had any nukes onboard?
It did apparently have a bit of wood onboard not sure about the nukes.
It's all getting a bit Indiana Jones
It did apparently have a bit of wood onboard
Bugger. Does that mean it will rise again on Monday?
Stumbled on this on YouTube and thought it was an interesting insight to how Russia sees the world. Usual caveats, it's clearly from a Ukrainian perspective. It's an attempt to explain an ideology translated as "Russian peace, Russian world". Basically a very distorted but all pervading sense of Russian exceptionalism and superiority, which seeps down to all levels of society. It's all a bit 'ein volk ein reich ein führer'. It partially explains, how even Russians living in Western countries and having access to Western media can often still support the war - the Pro Russian demos in Berlin recently for example.
Bugger. Does that mean it will rise again on Monday?
^^ 😂
Re Russian domestic misinformation, there was an interesting bit on Putin in that Adam Curtis 'Hypernormalisation' doc. Basically keep everyone off balance IIRC
@dissonance that genuinely made me LOL, not easy and quite painful with three busted ribs!
