Ukraine

That was the deal offered by Russia.

That was not the deal offered by Russia. Russia's "deal" is that it sees Ukraine as part of Russia and refuses to recognize its sovereignty. Russia's ultimatum to Ukraine back in 2014 was to either reject closer ties with the EU or face invasion. It was not a "deal", it was an ultimatum backed up by threat of war. As a sovereign nation, Ukraine has the right to reject ultimatums like that. Russia then invaded Ukraine in violation of Ukrainian sovereignty. The problem here is Russia, not Ukraine, not NATO, not the EU.

..

The rats are abandoning ship.

https://twitter.com/UkrWarReport/status/1494861368729735172

Do you see England honouring the results of an independence referendum should it go against them ?.

That could well be a question for the future.

Will we see the US siding with England and claiming the Scottish referendum is illegal.

LOL, fantasy stuff

If the referendum is legal and binding then of course it will be respected. The last one would have been respected.

Gas is an internationally traded commodity, so prices are set by the market.Any price pressure just ramps up the speed of decarbonisation. RUK government has Barnett savings, I imagine it will also stop the massive tax subsidies for decommissioning etc. In other words paying Scotland for gas isn't an issue in a web of complexity unless they start territory grabs and threatening to shut the gas off which is fantasy stuff

The rats are abandoning ship

She could just be visiting her mum for the weekend

She could just be visiting her mum for the weekend duration of hostilities.

I'm sure it'll all be over with by Easter and she'll be back home with her hubby.

So, either the Ukrainian leaders are so utterly stupid that they wait years and years until there is a huge Russian army assembled on their borders, then they attack Russia, or Russia is using the exact transparently bullshit excuse for an invasion that everyone knew they would use once they'd finished assembling their invasion force.

https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status/1494956256771063813

Maybe it’s those bastard Americans doing the shelling? I bet it’s another part of their dastardly imperialist plot to discredit Putin and the Russians

We’ve already established that absolutely everything else in the world is their fault, after all

Makes you think…

A friend of mine is married to a Russian whose family live near the Ukrainian border. (30km away) He whatsapped the group saying Ukraine had attacked Russia last night. He's flying her family out.

There are other threads for Scottish Indy discussion. Let’s try and keep it off this one.

This about Ukraine being invaded by Russia. They have asked for assistance from NATO. NATO has not invaded Ukraine and has no plans to.

Having clarified that, what is it about Putin that you guys admire so much?

They've flooded Ukraine with weapons though which could easily be seen as an act of aggression.

Not a fan of Putin myself. What is it about Boris YOU admire so much?

This is not football, it's not about taking sides and cheering them on. I am against war and hope to god there isn't one.

https://twitter.com/eliothiggins/status/1494954072566378502?s=21

I’m sure it’s all the work of the U.S.
…somehow…

dyna-ti
Free Member
I stopped referring to you or anything you had to say 3 pages back.

@dyna-ti

No, you did not. Stop making things up. You're as shameless as the Russian propaganda outlets.

dazh
Full Member
Oh look, Russia is moving troops back to their bases. A lot of people on here are going to be very disappointed.

Was anyone actually naive enough to believe the Russian claim that they were withdrawing rather than repositioning ready to attach Ukraine? If you were, I have a Sick bicycle you might be interested in purchasing.

What was that 😕 Did i hear something there ?,

Nope, nothing that concerns me. Moving along.

I’m sure it’s all the work of the U.S.

Havent the US just delivered a huge cache of weapons to this group ?, so in effect they are somewhat responsible.

Or it could have been British munitions and training, so technically you are correct.

so in effect they are somewhat responsible.

Nope, Putin is entirely responsible for this. He attacked Ukraine in 2014. NATO countries did not supply Ukraine with any weapons until after Russia invaded. Supplying weapons to a country that has been invaded is not a provocation to the invader. The fault lies entirely with the invading country (which is Russia, in case you have forgotten).

You have to grudgingly admire the Russian propagandists. They know that everyone knows they're just making shit up, but they just don't care. That's their whole point, they'll do whatever they want and don't care what anyone thinks.

https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/1494994307614400513

NATO countries did not supply Ukraine with any weapons until after Russia invaded.

Are you sure?

I find it remarkable, that that chap whose name i forget, is now agreeing that Russia supplying Syria is totally legitimate and not a provocation.

What an astounding turn of events 😯

Are you sure?

Ukraine still uses Russian/Warsaw Pact equipment, a lot of the Soviet military factories were in Ukraine so it produces some weapons itself. After Russia invaded in 2014, Ukraine asked NATO countries for help, but they were only offered "non-lethal" assistance, not weapons. This was because there was no hope of Ukraine actually beating Russia in a straight-up fight and the Russian invasion ground to a stalemate so sending weapons would only have escalated it into a bigger stalemate. Once it became clear in recent months that Russia was building up for a large-scale offensive, NATO agreed to supply anti-tank and anti-helicopter missiles. NATO definitely did not supply Ukraine with any heavy or advanced weaponry before Russia invaded in 2014, all of Ukraine's heavy weapons were of Russian or Warsaw Pact origin.

dyna-ti
Free Member
I find it remarkable, that that chap whose name i forget, is now agreeing that Russia supplying Syria is totally legitimate and not a provocation.

What an astounding turn of events

@dyna-ti
Don't make things up, it's pathetic. The problem with Syria is that the government flagrantly ignored human-rights concerns in the civil war. It simply slaughtered thousands of innocent civilians, including using chemical weapons. Russia supported them in this. Supplying weapons to a democratically elected government fighting an invasion is not the same thing as using chemical weapons against helpless civilians.

But you already know that, you just don't care do you? If you have to make up nonsense like that, step back, take a look in the mirror and ask yourself why you have such breathless admiration for murderous tyrants.

I will now state for the record that I am being forced against my will to engage in discussion with the member 'Thols2'

ask yourself why you have such breathless admiration for murderous tyrants.

One could level the same accusation against yourself and your endearing admiration for the US led NATO alliance.

dyna-ti
Free Member
I thought we were discussing the Russia/Nato/Ukrainian thing.

Oh do try to stay on topic 🙄

Why the idea that Putin would back down and not invade was always naive.

https://twitter.com/ProfPaulPoast/status/1495012102418878465

https://twitter.com/ProfPaulPoast/status/1495012650228621312

Is there an echo in here 😕

Oh yes, to continue on topic.

Russia feels its actions are totally justified in taking whatever steps it feels it needs to, in what it views as aggressive expansion by NATO.

Russia feels its actions are totally justified in taking whatever steps it feels it needs to

Yep, that is Russia's position. It can do whatever it wants for whatever reason it wants and no criticism will be tolerated. Ukraine disagrees, it take the view that it's a sovereign nation and Russia does not have any right to invade it.

I agree with Ukraine on this, just in case you were under any illusions.

Is there any other countries with such a massive military budget, who have been starting wars left ,right and center over the last 30 years ?.

And routinely invents pretexts to justify massive and brutal invasions. Like Israel, you mean?

I agree that you have a right to agree.

Or disagree.

@DrJ

I fear we have to invoke Thols2 here to remind you to stay on topic, and Israel is not part of this topic. You know how ranty he gets when faced with opposite debates and points of view.

He'll be accusing you of siding with isis in Somalia or something.

The false flag operation that launched Putin's career.

https://twitter.com/razhael/status/1494738097849962496

You have to grudgingly admire the Russian Tory “partygate” propagandists. They know that everyone knows they’re just making shit up, but they just don’t care. That’s their whole point, they’ll do whatever they want and don’t care what anyone thinks.

FTFY

They’ve flooded Ukraine with weapons though which could easily be seen as an act of aggression deterrence

Seeing as the weapons aren't that much use for offensive operations

There are other threads for Scottish Indy discussion. Let’s try and keep it off this one.

To be fair it was more an insight into the thought processes of the poster.

Seeing as the weapons aren’t that much use for offensive operations

Dude, you're arguing with a guy who thinks that Syrian civilians getting bombed with chemical weapons set them up for the "win". Not much point trying fact based stuff on him, he just doesn't care. If a democratic country is involved, it's bad. If a brutal dictator is involved, it's sticking it to the man.

I would also point out one side of the discussion aligns with what Rod Liddle thinks

The other doesn't

Jesus wept, this is truly pathetic playground level nonsense.

Lalalala can't hear you. Tell him I'm not talking to him

Grow up.

That is a ridiculous statement B'n'D. They are for both offence and defence.

That is a ridiculous statement B’n’D. They are for both offence and defence.

Those are all light infantry weapons. You ain't gonna launch an attack on Moscow driving Humvees. The only country shipping heavy offensive weapons into Ukraine is Russia.

Jesus wept, this is truly pathetic playground level nonsense.

Lalalala can’t hear you. Tell him I’m not talking to him

Grow up.

Sorry Squirrelking, but i cant actually find reference to that quote you've just posted. I mean you went to the trouble of highlighting it as a quote, but it actually appears like you've cobbled it together, added your own interpretation and posted it up as a legitimate quote.

dyna-ti
Free Member
added your own interpretation and posted it up as a legitimate quote.

LOL. Dude, go back and look over your history on this thread of making stuff up.

You're bickering again Thols. You've been previously warned about that haven't you.

But thols you do agree that USA has been messing in countries that it has no business messing in for that last 50 years don't you? Iraq, Libya, all over central America, Vietnam etc. You are not denying that are you?

I'm not denying that Russia has been up to no good.

I’m not denying that Russia has been up to no good.

Obviously. But that isnt important to 'the other individual'  just by you saying the US can be just as bad if not more so, is tantamount to you agreeing with the Putin regime.

You’re bickering again Thols. You’ve been previously warned about that haven’t you.

No. The only person who got warned was you.

My mistake  then. I thought Drac was connected to the moderation team*

.

*

Best group of people you could ever want to be moderated by. Mother Theresa and Gandhi don't have a patch on....

😛