Putin's war
https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220317-war-in-ukraine-sparks-concerns-over-worldwide-food-shortages
Already struggling after last year wheat and grain flowing into Africa is getting costly.
If you go back through history, Russian/Soviet military performance is poor. Their victories are mostly pyrrhic.
“But it’s not just wheat,” Abis said, “the two countries account for 80 percent of the world’s sunflower oil production, and Ukraine is the world’s fourth largest exporter of maize.”
From @PK13 France 24 article. The problem with news sources saying things like this, is that while Ukraine is without doubt one of the biggest exporters of those two, its not one of the biggest producers. For instance Ukraine's exports nearly 80% of it's wheat crop, and that is one of the biggest European exporters but that's still only 0.9% of the worlds wheat crop
Videos of what are reportedly saboteurs, potentially Wagner sent in to ayub getting arrested by Ukr troops.
Brutal. Both a physical and metaphorical blow to Putin.
alpin - any link?
PMC Wagner (from earlier in this thread) have Dimitri Utkin as their founder/leader. He's the one with the SS tattoos and reading on Wiki, they also have form for infamous videos taken of killing people with hammers and burning them to death... so a gentle shoeing barely rates on my nsfw scale.
Anyone posted this from Dr Caddick-Adams, war historian.
https://thecritic.co.uk/is-putins-war-turning-genocidal/
We should pretend to allow a humanitarian convoy to help the Russian Embassy in Dublin, then shell the road outside relentlessly so it can't get through.
NSFW
TBH quite a restrained reaction from soldiers who are only a few km away from the scene of a war crime against helpless civilians, adult and child.
They certainly show a damn site more restraint that I would express.
TBH quite a restrained reaction from soldiers who are only a few km away from the scene of a war crime against helpless civilians, adult and child.
If they are Wagner members on a sabotage mission, then they're lucky not to have been shot on the spot and strung up from the nearest still standing lamp post.
and that is one of the biggest European exporters but that’s still only 0.9% of the worlds wheat crop
Though that big number is mostly feed for animals, their proportion of the global flour milling wheat crop is quite a bit higher plus their share of the Turkish, Egyptian and Bangladeshi markets is high. The restriction on Russian exports will affect those three badly. Source https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/17/infographic-russia-ukraine-and-the-global-wheat-supply-interactive
Potential intelligence gold there. Those chaps will be having a rather uncomfortable time, hopefully the Ukrainians can get some useful and actionable stuff from them.
TBH quite a restrained reaction from soldiers who are only a few km away from the scene of a war crime against helpless civilians, adult and child.
Training and discipline
If they are Wagner members on a sabotage mission, then they’re lucky not to have been shot on the spot and strung up from the nearest still standing lamp post.
Yeah, not sure the Geneva Convention applies to infiltrators dressed in civilian clothing. Fortunately for them, they have some residual value for intelligence purposes.
It doesn't. There are exceptions that remove mercenaries from being treated the same as regular/irregular forces POW.
Although there have been legal challenges to that. Some nations laws specifically remove them from the extension of domestic law to protect them as well.
Sorry, but clueless here… How does it work with groups like the Wagner mob? Who sub-contracts them? How are they paid and do they supply their own weaponry? (If anyone could point me to a documentary somewhere about them…I mean, I know “ish” about them, but no clue how they are deployed, who gives the orders etc. And what would be next for those guys in the video up there?
TBH quite a restrained reaction from soldiers
there are apparently videos of ukranians shooting russian POWs, self -defeating , if not surprising, as more russian war crimes against civillians are uncovered
https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1511236292310413312
especially in light of recent ukranian surrenders
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1511059121067511814
although there have been quite a few prisoner swaps between sides
Training and discipline
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ukrainian soldiers are accused of, or have indeed committed war crimes of a similar nature (murder, or extrajudicial killings) . Their training is pretty much the same as the Russian troops they're facing, and some of the units within the Ukrainian forces are exactly what you'd call "regular" anyway. Plus they've conscripted thousands of civilians who've likely received little to no training in capturing enemy combatants or prisoner handling.
The aftermath of all this is going to be ugly.
I'm not 100% sure that I condone this, Russian POWs calling home.
He added: “Often a Russian mother does not ask her son about his health, but immediately tells us the propaganda she was told on Russian television.
I see Matt le Tissier and a few other notable intellectuals have come out batting for the Kremlin in the matters of whether Russia committed war crimes.
I think the logic goes like this:
'The media' has at times in the past not always been truthful
'The media' is therefore not being truthful now
'The media' is currently saying that Russians committed war crimes in Bucha
...Therefore Russians did not commit war crimes in Bucha.
This aligns neatly with what the Kremlin is saying, which is handy because the Kremlin does not have any record of dishonesty or false statements, nor any recent history of committing war crimes. So there we go.
I’m not 100% sure that I condone this,
There's a fine line, there are rules about exploiting POWs for propaganda.
There's no doubt there will have been crimes committed on both sides - there probably are in all wars. The BBC have footage of Ukrainians shooting prisoners in the leg.
What the Ukranians may be doing to Russian troops is slightly lower down my outrage scale than what the Russians have done to Ukrainian civilians. Both are wrong, obviously.
Eventually it’ll have to come out, because people will ask why they are still fighting. It’ll be interesting when it all comes crashing down, whenever that might be.
Didn't happen with Chechnya.
there are apparently videos of ukranians shooting russian POWs, self -defeating
Likely fake.
Only one guy wears blue arm band.
Not wearing patches correct way up.
That Ukrainian marine surrender video has been getting a bit of push back for being fake - it’s quite a murky pr battle going on.
Matt Le Tissier is a bit of an embarrassment isn’t he. Football’s Neil Oliver - what a title to win!
Twitter is a shortcut to peoples stupidity.
As for the videos, I take most of them with a pinch of salt. Both sides will be up to shithousery, one side is taking it to extreme levels, so a degree of reciprocation isn't exactly surprising. If it's acceptable is a whole other conversation though.
The UN Russian Uncle fester is at it again Trumping out Putin's'Nazi' narrative. How does he look at himself at night.
Jaysus, anyone listening to the Russian guy at the UN?
EDIT: just seen @Caher’s last post on previous.
It’s an utterly staggering testimony.
He's surpassed Comical Ali. Comrade Crackhead is fully puffing on his pipe before those monologues.
War is a nasty business and I’ve no doubt both sides will commit atrocities when their “blood” is up.
That’s completely different to ethnic cleansing, genocide & intentionally deporting 40,000 civilians to work camps.
Jaysus, anyone listening to the Russian guy at the UN?
Have I just heard that right? He's just accused the Ukrainians of being responsible for the Holocaust 😳
He’s just accused the Ukrainians of being responsible for the Holocaust 😳
There were a (fairly large) number of Ukranians who sided with the Germans when they showed up in 1941. This was mainly as a way of getting rid of the Soviets, and who can blame them after the famines of the early 1930s.
It does play nicely into the Nazi storylines and no doubt there was some complicity with the holocaust.
This does not however excuse Russia's current actions in any way.
Surely they can get a spy plane to drop a massive pile of Texan dung from 80,000 on the Kremlin and say it was the Romans.
I saw a video purporting to show Wagner mercs with a Syrian deserter, I have no problem with they ****ers getting a beating, no problem at all.
What do we make of the Western right who still seem to be supporting Putin?
I noticed Tucker Carlson changed his tune as war crimes started to emerge, but I’m still seeing a lot of supportive comments online from what appear to be genuine American right-wingers (rather than Russian bots).
I’m seeing a lot of the usual “media is lying to us; Soros; NWO; trust the plan” etc.
Some crazies would rather have Putin as president than Biden: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMLQSeWvr/
What do we make of the Western right who still seem to be supporting Putin?
There are loonies on both sides - Justin Schlosberg and Steve Howell, both well to the left in Labour, are at it too.
It's ridiculous. Useful idiots, doing Putin's work for him.
What do we make of the Western right who still seem to be supporting Putin?
It really doesn’t matter. If Biden was condemning Idi Amin right now, they’d have a Ugandan flag stuck just over their “Impeach Biden” bumper sticker. I really have no idea - they’re just beyond redemption.
There were a (fairly large) number of Ukranians who sided with the Germans when they showed up in 1941.
The Russian STATE sided with the Nazis from 1939 until 1941! Committing some ****ing horrendous examples of genocide in Poland along the way.
Jaysus, anyone listening to the Russian guy at the UN?
Yeah, it was quite interesting insight into the mindset.
That beating is pretty similar to the typical behaviour of West Yorkshire Police.
There are loonies on both sides
Agreed, I guess I just find it particularly incongruous from the American right, given they are usually bleating on about freedum and lefties being "commies" etc.
It’s ridiculous. Useful idiots, doing Putin’s work for him.
Hard to know which ones are paid "useful idiots" and which ones are just idiots.
I think the ongoing information and social media war could out some of the former, if people are paying attention.
andrewh, RichPenny,
Everyone was slaughtering everyone back in the day, the answer to any accusation levelled at one group or the other is probably; Yes.
Don't know if anyone here has ever seen the 1985 Russian film "Come and See"? Liz Truss probably hasn't because its got subtitles but its the best antidote to all he black hawk down videos fed onto our screens.
Nothing will give greater context to the events occurring in Ukraine right now than spending two and a half hours with that film. It is harrowing in the extreme but also a complete and utter masterpiece.
This covers some the Ukraine involvement in the second world war. Or some of it at least.
Maybe the Russian UN rep has seen that and thinks it's news??
