Ukraine

I think a lot of the U.S. and U.K. warheads are "dial-a-yield" types. They can be adjusted to have yields of sub-1k up to 200k or more. This means that "strategic" warheads can also be used as tactical weapons.

Problem is, kicking off a nuclear war is a really dumb idea. Any thoughts of a first strike to take out Russia's missiles is utter madness. Tactical weapons would leave large areas of Europe uninhabitable. Putin might be desperate enough to use tactical nukes if he thought it was the only way to not lose but no responsible Western leader would think a nuclear conflict was a smart decision.

Russia foreign ministey now saying they are finding proof/documents of chemical weapons in development with USA help in Ukraine

Was it in a box next to the nuclear weapon plans?
Its surprising how crap their propaganda is. I guess they have just got used with sowing confusion and discord to try and drag everything down rather than a targeted propaganda campaign to make them look good vs their enemy.

Russia foreign ministey now saying they are finding proof/documents of chemical weapons in development with USA help in Ukraine. Live on sky news
I’m beginning think we are being pranked

Its surprising how crap their propaganda is. I guess they have just got used with sowing confusion and discord to try and drag everything down rather than a targeted propaganda campaign to make them look good vs their enemy.

I think they just got used to having "useful idiots" in the West amplifying their propaganda. The basic pattern was to point to examples of American/NATO atrocities like Vietnam or Iraq and then claim that Russian atrocities don't count because the West is hypocritical. I agree completely that Vietnam and Iraq (and a whole bunch of other misadventures) were just obscene, but at least people living in liberal democracies can protest and can vote leaders out of power. Now that it's obvious that Putin is much, much worse than Bush, Blair, JBJ, Nixon, etc., the useful idiots have shut up and there's nobody to spread the nonsense.

Even north Korea is better at it Russian state TV needs that woman from north Korea tv she has the best poker face I've seen although she may have good reason to.

FB Loons probably been watching this Netflix documentary - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectral

"When an otherworldly force wreaks havoc on a war-torn European city, an engineer teams up with an elite Special Ops unit to stop it."

North Korea TV news woman is ace. If the regime ever collapses she could make millions doing stints for all the other major news TV programs.

Russia foreign ministey now saying they are finding proof/documents of chemical weapons in development with USA help in Ukraine. Live on sky news
I’m beginning think we are being pranked

I was reading up on this last night.

It's exactly the same BS they used around 10 years ago from memory and totally made up nonsense.

scuttler
Full Member
North Korea TV news woman is ace. If the regime ever collapses she could make millions doing stints for all the other major news TV programs.

Yes, she's interesting isn't she.

To paraphrase a great movie line, you could definitely stick a lump of coal up her butt and get a diamond out a few hours later...

In one day, Poland alone admitted 30,000 refuges.

30,000...

I'm appalled at the UK response.

Oh, the UK now was a Minister for Refuges I see on the news.

Lots of announcements and zero bloody actual action.

Its surprising how crap their propaganda is. I guess they have just got used with sowing confusion and discord to try and drag everything down rather than a targeted propaganda campaign to make them look good vs their enemy.

This is exactly what Putins regime has done for decades. They don't have a single government 'line', as such.

They just constantly throw out contradictory and increasingly wild stories so that it is absolutely impossible for anyone to get a handle on whats actually happening, so people give up trying.

I think that's where a lot of Russians appear to be now. And we all probably would be too if constantly deluged with disinformation for years

They just constantly throw out contradictory and increasingly wild stories so that it is absolutely impossible for anyone to get a handle on whats actually happening, so people give up trying. I think that’s where a lot of Russians appear to be now.

I've often wondered what happens to that approach when the government needs people to believe what it's saying.

"Even north Korea is better at it Russian state TV needs that woman from north Korea tv she has the best poker face I’ve seen although she may have good reason to."

She's sitting on a hand grenade.

Russia promoting the message that sanctions will hurt the West more than them. That's going to be a wake up call for sure when things really bite over there. Add in the immediate effects of Western companies pulling out/ suspending Russian operations and it's going to be interesting seeing Putin try and spin this.

North Korea TV news woman is ace. If the regime ever collapses she could make millions doing stints for all the other major news TV programs.

Tory party spokesperson?

I’ve often wondered what happens to that approach when the government needs people to believe what it’s saying.

You just end up with complete apathy. An acceptance that the regime will just do what it likes anyway, because it doesn't care what the population think. If they do protest, they'll be imprisoned anyway, so why should they worry

I’ve often wondered what happens to that approach when the government needs people to believe what it’s saying.

Being a police state helps there I think. Do this or get thrown into the gulag has a certain ability to make people accept the current line.

Presumably Nato know exactly where Russia’s nuke launch sites are by now? A co-ordinated simultaneous attack to destroy all of these in one strike – Nato could take the Russian nuclear threat off the table and the Russians to heal.

And the ones under the sea?

I know where the ones under the sea are.. they'll be about 500m down under the North Atlantic ice shelf - good luck finding/neutralising them...

Beeb just reporting that Russia has taken Chernobyl off the Ukrainian power grid... So no power to carry out repairs/maintenance to the decommissioned mess.

Nice...

China are sitting on the fence, neither approving nor condemning Russia. AFAIK they do not have a pact between them offering military assistance if either is attacked.

Yes. China are carefully playing a long game and IMO don't want to get into any kind of military conflict. They're watching what's going on with the Russian economic collapse, and waiting for Russia to come to them for a 'bailout'. Which could come in various forms: Russia need someone to buy their gas/oil, they need access to a large banking system to replace SWIFT, and they'll need some big loans soon. They'll be desperate and China will have plenty of leverage to drive a very hard bargain.

If China play their cards right they could end up, at worst, making a shitload of cash, and at best, having Russia as a vassal state for the next few decades, without firing a single shot. It's not surprising they're putting a consoling arm around Russia's shoulder and telling them they're on their side.

The only thing China cares about is preferably control of, or at the very least priority access to, natural resources to fuel their continued economic growth

I think that a lot of Russians know what's coming down the line economically, for younger generations it might be a bit of a shock but just like over here, they are outnumbered. Dissenters will either find themselves in Jail or cowed.

There will be many who don't agree with Putin's decision but have a similar feeling to him with regards Russia's greatness and do not want to see it relegated in the world order. They dodged that one in the 90's remember and consequently voted in a strongman and they probably knew he was an autocrat at heart.

The thought of Russia being crushed will be traumatizing for many Russians and I think that too much talk from our side about defeating or neutering Russia will strengthen their resolve, irrespective of their view on Putin.

From the Beeb...
So cutting the power off from Chernobyl will potentiality stop the cooling of the radioactive site and could get a little nasty.

You just end up with complete apathy. An acceptance that the regime will just do what it likes anyway, because it doesn’t care what the population think. If they do protest, they’ll be imprisoned anyway, so why should they worry

We still talking about Russia right??

This whole mess scares me more than anything I knew about growing up during the late 70s/early 80s. (Not knowing about Able Archer etc. at the time.)

Have we done Russia closing its Forex sales until September yet? Because that’s Putin pretty much tanking the Russian economy.

I mean I know China has stepped in and many Russian banks are reissuing cards backed by the Chinese and those are widely accepted, but to all intents and purposes Ruble convertibility is finished

Reports also coming in from Finland, saying trains from Russia rammed with folks looking to get out before the marshall laws are imposed by Putin that they all think are coming.

I wouldn't stop in Finland if I were them... presence of lots more Russian speakers there could be an excuse for a future invade and flatten mission. Just like Kharkiv.

It’s exactly the same BS they used around 10 years ago from memory and totally made up nonsense.

Isn't that what Blair and Bush did? Make up evidence of WMDs?

I mean you can complain about Putin all you want but B&B managed to sell the same idea to their governments and a large part of the public.

So cutting the power off from Chernobyl will potentiality stop the cooling of the radioactive site and could get a little nasty."

If my old man were still around I'd be asking him a few questions right now as he was a scientist at the National Radiological Protection Board, I imagine he'd be quite busy right now! He'd also done some time in the RAF stationed in Aden when he was younger, fitting radar units to Hawker Hunters.

edit:

Thinking about it? I could have asked all I wanted but he probably wouldn't have told me!

Isn’t that what Blair and Bush did?

And they lost democratic support because of it. Putin...? Doesn't need to worry about that.

Scenes not currently possible in Moscow.

A pop up site in Lille was meant to open today... Except it hasn't and no-one even knew it was meant to be there till they heard it on the news.

Priti... I have no words for her.

Despite having no cooling, isn't the recent upgrade to the Chernobyl Sarcophagus built to be able to cope with such things?

Anyway, what's their reason to do this, divert the power to elsewhere, or is it a link in a chain to cut-off Ukraine's energy supplies?

doris5000
Free Member
China are sitting on the fence, neither approving nor condemning Russia. AFAIK they do not have a pact between them offering military assistance if either is attacked.

Yes. China are carefully playing a long game and IMO don’t want to get into any kind of military conflict. They’re watching what’s going on with the Russian economic collapse, and waiting for Russia to come to them for a ‘bailout’. Which could come in various forms: Russia need someone to buy their gas/oil, they need access to a large banking system to replace SWIFT, and they’ll need some big loans soon. They’ll be desperate and China will have plenty of leverage to drive a very hard bargain.

If China play their cards right they could end up, at worst, making a shitload of cash, and at best, having Russia as a vassal state for the next few decades, without firing a single shot. It’s not surprising they’re putting a consoling arm around Russia’s shoulder and telling them they’re on their side.

binners
Full Member
The only thing China cares about is preferably control of, or at the very least priority access to, natural resources to fuel their continued economic growth

Yeah, I doubt China are too disappointed with the situation at all. I seen a news report on sputnik the other day that Cisco have left Russia, so all the web infrastructure there will be getting replaced with nice shiny chinese stuff.

A chinese vassal state does seem like the likely outcome here tbh. Even if they stopped tomorrow, you can't see much business coming from the 'West' as long as Putin and their style of government continues.

https://twitter.com/hackingbutlegal/status/1500465032966062082?t=3Oec5u1aZsgn5wZ0GWLPbA&s=19

Not your usual POW you see paraded. Hope this kinda message is seeping through to Russia.

A pop up site in Lille was meant to open today… Except it hasn’t and no-one even knew it was meant to be there till they heard it on the news.

Not even any crisps and Kit Kats?

Well, who'd have thunk it?

Its almost as if they don't actually want any Ukrainian refugees, but that couldn't be the case, surely?

This Russian POW has the heart of a lion

And how brave are the Ukrainians telling the armed Russian forces, to their faces, the truth about their “libration” mission. Unbelievably brave. The old woman he talks about. That takes guts I don’t have.

Isn’t that what Blair and Bush did? Make up evidence of WMDs?

Not quite. They used cherrypicked evidence. A lot of the evidence was inconclusive, there were things that were consistent with a WMD programme but could also have other uses. There were intelligence sources of dubious reliability. What they did was cherrypicked the evidence that supported their argument and suppressed the evidence against it. It's still extremely bad practice but it's not the same thing as actually manufacturing fake evidence.

At the time it was obvious that they had decided to invade Iraq and were looking to justify it. It was also obvious that they hadn't thought through the consequences and that the "they will greet us as liberators" claim was delusional. Saddam Hussein was a brutal tyrant and I don't have any sympathy for him. Overthrowing him in itself wasn't a concern for me, the concern at the time was that it was obvious that Iraqi and the region would be destabilized and the Iraqi people were going to pay a terrible price. It was a spectacularly stupid decision made even worse by the utter incompetence of the occupation that followed. Even if the evidence hadn't been cherrypicked, it would still have been a spectacularly stupid decision.

Quick question - with all the western companies pulling out of Russia, McDonald's, coke, apple etc.

What's Russian employment law like - I'm guessing thousands if not millions now left without income?

What’s Russian employment law like – I’m guessing thousands if not millions now left without income?

MacDonalds are going to continue paying their staff. Can't say for the test.

👍 thanks.

Chernobyl now relying on emergency diesel generators for the cooling. Should hold for a couple of days according to an expert in BBC at the mo.

I doubt China are too disappointed with the situation at all.

I think they will be very anxious about it. It has motivated liberal democracies to take security issues seriously. China's neighours are as anxious about Chinese aggressiveness as European countries are about Russia. This is likely to show that alliances with democracies are a better bet than allowing authoritarian countries to dominate you. The last thing China wants is to be surrounded by wealthy democracies that have a defense treaty with the U.S.

Poopscoop
Full Member
Chernobyl now relying on emergency diesel generators for the cooling. Should hold for a couple of days according to an expert in BBC at the mo.

What's going on there, is it Ukrainian sabotage? It makes no sense for Russians to turn off the power there?

^^ I think it's just another way to worry the West.

Putin is scrabbling for any leverage at the moment.

Nor does it make any sense for the Ukrainian's to sabotage it.

Saddam Hussein was a brutal tyrant and I don’t have any sympathy for him. Overthrowing him in itself wasn’t a concern for me

This is problematic logic though. You, based on the information that you have (been presented), feel that deposing someone is justified. I'm sure there are plenty of people in Russia that believe that Zelensky is a tyrant/NATO are oppressors/Ukraine is full of Nazis. This is based on incorrect data, of course, but you can't argue with the logic employed - by which I mean a Russian of reasonable intelligence might come to the conclusion that invading Ukraine is justified.

Obviously, neither of us nor the average Russian citizen are sanctioning invasions so it's moot, and I'd hope that those who were had access to all the information, not just what the government's mouthpieces spout. But when you begin to justify invasions, it feels like a slippery slope.