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Matty. They have multiple options from taxing the rich to creating more money.
This is pure right wing performative dog whistling
Utterly disgusting. Self defeating and wrong
I'm not saying I like it, I'm saying how it is.
Of course we could tax billionaires and offshore companies etc .. And there are plenty of reasons to do that to help with the NHS, social security, education etc etc. For many years now.
It wasn't done for arguably much more deserving cases so what makes you think it will be done to boost the defense budget? Lol.
All depends exactly what the threat is - from who and how.
If it is Russia they are hardly going to invade the UK are they, it will all be cyber interference in which case we can forget tanks and missiles and move the current money to what we actually need to defend against. Increasing in a few years time may be too late with such a pressing matter...
The problem is we're already at war with Russia - we just don't know it yet, we have been since the early 2010s. So far they are ahead.
Preferably before Keir Starmer gets to meet Donald Trump tomorrow.
I think we all know (apart from binners) that the only reason he's boosting defence spending now is because he's off to the states tomorrow to kiss some fascist arse and he wants Trump to be all moist and tumescent before he gets down on his knees. I suppose its no different to any other PM before him but binners et al should at least drop the ridiculous pretence that this is something he absolutely has to do to keep the nation safe.
They’ve not said ‘we’re going to go and buy a load of tanks!’.
We know where it will go, it'll go into the pockets of whichever defence contractor has the most connected and corrupt lobbyists. We'll probably end up with another aircraft carrier which can't carry any planes.
You're arguing a different argument... If the government didn't pay for any projects of any kind on the basis that any contractor would be a rip off, or at best a horrendous overspend, then nothing would ever get done, not just defence but any sector.
I think we all know (apart from binners) that the only reason he's boosting defence spending now is because he's off to the states tomorrow to kiss some fascist arse
We know where it will go
Well you certainly seem to know pretty much everything up there in the Todmorden bunker comrade, so maybe we should leave the countries defence to you 😃
In other news, Labour has accepted every recommendation of the Grenfell Inquiry, is establishing an organisation to enforce it and will be prosecuting the companies responsible
The centrist bastards!
Alex Krainer reckons it's all about resources:Alex Krainer: How Far Has Europe Deceived Itself?
Who? Could you summarise for us please?
I can’t watch YouTube videos as I haven’t got my tinfoil helmet with me 😃
Yep, but the subject was invasion of the UK or invasion of Nato country which I cannot see happening. $53 billion should already be enough without playing with arbitrary % of GDP. A nice headline to state raising by 0.n% by year 20nn but what will it really achieve?
Money going on stuff like this "This increase in defence investment will help us build a modern and resilient Armed Forces. It will accelerate the adoption of cutting-edge capabilities that are vital to retain a decisive edge as threats rapidly evolve. Targeted investment will reverse the hollowing out of recent decades and rebuild stockpiles, munitions, and enablers depleted after a period focused on international terrorism and global crises."
Increasing cyber defense for the UK would come out of the defence budget, no?
Probably not. The primary cyber defence agency is GCHQ which comes out of the intelligence budget.
In other news, Labour has accepted every recommendation of the Grenfell Inquiry, is establishing an organisation to enforce it and will be prosecuting the companies responsible
The centrist bastards!
I reckon that sums up exceptionally well just low you are prepared to set the bar for Starmer binners.
A tragic and totally avoidable fire, caused by criminal incompetence and neglect, kills 72 people, and you want to enthusiastically celebrate the fact that the government accepts the recommendations of an enquiry, and, wait for it........ wants to prosecute those companies responsible!!
Bleedin'ell is there no limit to this government's commitment to the rule of law?!? I'm starting to think that there might not be! It's crazy, I'm telling yer....... whatever else can we expect from this quite remarkable government?!?
Ernesto… really? Get a grip!
Do you think the previous government would be breaking the habit of a lifetime and fully implementing the recommendations of a public inquiry?
Or do you think they’d be doing what they always did and ignoring it completely so as to let there mates off the hook and keeping the gravy train rolling and prosecuting absolutely nobody?
Thats the point I was making
Nothing is currently stopping Labour 'tanking' in the polls.
"Secure at home - Strong Abroad."
What in the name in shit does that mean?
Sun told them a few days ago to cut WOKE foreign-aid to spend more on defence. Centrists definitely have more in common with the right than the left.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/33408783/labour-hike-defence-spending-foreign-aid/
And in other "other news", Keir Starmer castigates Nigel Farage for not turning up to parliament and presumably backing him over the alleged need to increase defence spending and cutting the foreign aid budget.
Asked if he is "Nigel Farage is disguise", given the Reform UK leader has previously vowed to increase defence spending but cut the foreign aid budget, Sir Keir said: "Nigel Farage didn't even turn up to the debate in parliament today. Nigel Farage is fawning over Putin. That's not patriotism.
To be fair Nigel Farage probably quite rightly thinks that patriotic Keir Starmer is doing an excellent job in implementing the Reform UK election manifesto policies and that with the huge majority he has Starmer really doesn't need any help from him.
A lot of selective blindness, if not willful ignorance in this thread, as per usual.
I mean if Starmers government is being criticised for doing the correct thing where previous governments have been at best indifferent to the grenfell/cladding issue, then there is. Just no Pleasing some people.
What would you have him do? Nothing? Or do what he seems to be doing?
so maybe we should leave the countries defence to you
The country's defence was fine as it was. We're in no more danger of Russian invasion today than we were before Jan 26th. Spending tens of billions more on defence is a decision designed only to curry favour with the new US president and placate a load of racist ex-labour voters. It also conveniently gives Starmer the opportunity to play at being an international statesman when everyone at home thinks he's a dishonest, disingenuous, dithering technocrat who's out of his depth.
A lot of selective blindness, if not willful ignorance in this thread, as per usual.
Somewhat ironic considering how badly you strawmanned what Ernie wrote.
so maybe we should leave the countries defence to you
The country's defence was fine as it was.
Just lol... Have you not Been keeping up with current events?
Our military cannot stand on its own.. Yes we have expertise in certain areas and in certain tech.. But we rely heavily on our European friends to fill the gaps in and vice versa.
That's what cooperation is all about... Pooling resources for the benefit of all.
You could even call it socialist.
But socialists be like "no, not like that!"
Sigh.
What would be great to see is the USA kicked out of NATO, but as that's basically impossible, the next best option, IMO, would be for all NATO members to quit and immediately form an identical organisation without the USA.
In fact a lot of European leaders are alluding to something similar, as we all know the USA can no longer be trusted, certainly under the Trump regime.
Thats the point I was making
The point you appear to be making now is that the Tories were according to you total shite but that Starmer's government isn't quite as bad as total shite. That is precisely what I mean by just how low you set the bar for Starmer.
So okay the government shows a commitment to the rule of law but no I am not bowled over by that, although apparently you are.
And I am not the only one who expects a lot more from a government, especially a Labour government, than maintaining the rule of law and prosecuting those guilty of criminality. Which will explain why support for Labour has collapsed in the last 8 months.
Wow, I love that new feature, apparently my post with a link to a Sky News article is "awaiting moderation". Presumably someone hit the report button because they didn't like it. That's quite something!
and will be prosecuting the companies responsible
Have you actually got a link to back up that claim binners? I can't see where it says that any company will be prosecuted. In fact the opposite, it would appear that they won't be prosecuted at all and the London Mayor is simply saying that they "should be barred from future contracts"
London Mayor Sadiq Khan said companies named and shamed in the report "should be barred from future contracts" and "this must now finally happen without further delay".
How does that fit in with this comment you made?
do you think they’d be doing what they always did and ignoring it completely so as to let there mates off the hook and keeping the gravy train rolling and prosecuting absolutely nobody?
It would appear that they will be "prosecuting absolutely nobody" as you put. Remind me again what we should be celebrating?
Increasing defence spending seems a commanding, proportionate and sensible response to recent events.
I also support the funding being moved over from foreign aid, which seems like the right place for the funding to come from, given it's still going towards trying to ensure peace in the world, just much closer to home.
Starmer has shown excellent leadership once again on an important, developing issue. The country is safer in his hands.
It would appear that they will be "prosecuting absolutely nobody
Does the government decide who to prosecute in these cases? We're not the US...
The govt has accepted all the enquiry recs, which is what it is able to do, and is penalising the companies in the way that it can. Let's see what the police, CPS and courts do.
Deputy prime minister Angela Rayner proposes prison time for executives who break the rules in response to Grenfell inquiry recommendations.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-inquiry-companies-ban-rayner-b2704972.html
So what else would you like the government to do?
Does the government decide who to prosecute in these cases? We're not the US...
Dunno, I have no idea what influence the government might have over the Crown Prosecution Service, but binners seemed to think that the current government should take credit for any prosecution of the seven named and shamed companies.
So what else would you like the government to do?
I haven't criticised the government over Grenfell, Angela Rayner's response to the enquiry seems perfectly adequate to me. Although I am not sure if all the Grenfell survivors agree?
Grenfell came up on this thread because binners appears to believe that it is a good example of what a fantastic job the current government are doing.
That won't stop him with cyber interference though, where is NATO when it comes to that?
Not necessarily NATO, but Govs are all over it. Five Eyes, NCSC, GCHQ, DI, etc., and allies equivalents thereof.
Sir Alex Younger, ex Head of MI6 has written and spoken extensively on it, if you're interested to know more.
I mean if Starmers government is being criticised for doing the correct thing where previous governments have been at best indifferent to the grenfell/cladding issue, then there is. Just no Pleasing some people
If Starmer came up with a cure for cancer tonight, then this thread would be full of the usual suspects whining and bitching that he hadn’t found a cure for MS yet.
Let the festival of joyless, humourless lefty miserablism be unrestrained!
And they wonder why the UK will never elect a lefty government? Just imagine this lot in charge? A fascist dictatorship would start to look appealing
, but binners seemed to think
Maybe I should pursue what you think another poster seems to think... Nah, it's making my ears bleed.
I'm just making the point that it's hardly likely that the government is going to announce today that it's going to launch prosecutions which it has no legal power or precedent to do.
By all means express how you feel about this...
, but binners seemed to think
Maybe I should pursue what you think another poster seems to think... Nah, it's making my ears bleed.
I'm just making the point that it's hardly likely that the government is going to announce today that it's going to launch prosecutions which it has no legal power or precedent to do.
By all means express how you feel about this...
Indeed, the government and judiciary in the UK are seperate, at least on paper, for very good reasons... you only have to look at the USA where the Trump regime is riding bare-back over the courts with total impunity as he's stuffed the courts with 'friendly' judges.
If the likes of Farage or the new 'turbo-extreme' version of the conservatives are anything to go by, they would follow the same play book.
What's to stop the same thing happening in the uk if a government has a massive majority? - they can force though laws if they want... just look at boris Johnson, who broke parlimentary precident on an almost daily basis during his tenure.
It would appear that they will be "prosecuting absolutely nobody" as you put. Remind me again what we should be celebrating
2026 before the CPS will make a charging decision
https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/cps-statement-grenfell
“Our team of specialist prosecutors will then carefully review the file but do not expect to be in a position to make any charging decisions until the end of 2026.
It would appear that they will be "prosecuting absolutely nobody" as you put. Remind me again what we should be celebrating
2026 before the CPS will make a charging decision
https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/cps-statement-grenfell
“Our team of specialist prosecutors will then carefully review the file but do not expect to be in a position to make any charging decisions until the end of 2026.
There's a carefull legal process to adhere to, (pesky rules etc.) who would have thunk it? 😉
I mean the UK government could just ignore the law, a-la- Trump?
It's almost as if Starmer was a lawyer in a previous incarnation, so probably has at least some understanding, and respect for the rules, and what needs to be done to change those rules in a correct and sane manner where appropriate.
Good to see Starmers carefully dismissive language over Russia and the US attempting to cut Ukraine and the EU out of thier side show negotiations, and sat down with EU leaders.
If his direction continues and he goes for the 11% cut for public services for arms - he will seal his fate as leader. (Which he doesn't need to do. Money is available - it's the resources that are needed.)
The man is losing the plot and doing desperate things now because his personal ratings are so awful.
Nothing good is coming out of Starmer currently no matter how you dress this up.
This post didn't age well, 🤣 he's (Starmer) cutting dubious foreign aid payments to dodgy countries where the funds are most likely misapropriated anyway..
What say you now?
Let the festival of joyless, humourless lefty miserablism be unrestrained!
Well you seem to want to celebrate the fact that the government is, well, the government.
And in a desperate attempt to talk up just how fantastic Starmer's government is you point to the conclusion of an enquiry which had nothing at all to do with them, saying :
In other news, Labour has accepted every recommendation of the Grenfell Inquiry, is establishing an organisation to enforce it and will be prosecuting the companies responsible
Which it turns out isn't even true. The government has said it is accepting in full 49 of the 58 recommendations, not "every recommendation" as you erroneously claimed
Nor has the government said that it "will be prosecuting the companies responsible".
So what exactly are we supposed to be celebrating ?
And in the meantime in other news the international aid budget has been slashed, Trump and Farage style, by 40%, something that will cost lives as well as the ability to tackle climate change related issues, thanks to joyless humourless centrist miserablism.
Which obviously your nonsense about Grenfell was supposed divert attention away from.
Let the festival of joyless, humourless lefty miserablism be unrestrained!
Well you seem to want to celebrate the fact that the government is, well, the government.
And in a desperate attempt to talk up just how fantastic Starmer's government is you point to the conclusion of an enquiry which had nothing at all to do with them, saying :
In other news, Labour has accepted every recommendation of the Grenfell Inquiry, is establishing an organisation to enforce it and will be prosecuting the companies responsible
Which it turns out isn't even true. The government has said it is accepting in full 49 of the 58 recommendations, not "every recommendation" as you erroneously claimed
Grenfell
So what exactly are we supposed to be celebrating ?
And in the meantime in other news the international aid budget has been slashed, Trump and Farage style, by 40%, something that will cost lives as well as the ability to tackle climate change related issues, thanks to joyless humourless centrist miserablism.
Which obviously your nonsense about Grenfell was supposed divert attention away from.
How about you stick to facts, Ernie don't play the player, play the ball etc?
international aid budget has been slashed, Trump and Farage style, by 40%, something that will cost lives as well as the ability to tackle climate change related issues
Tackle climate change? how on earth is giving a country like India (a country that can afford it's own space programme, and a huge net pollutor) UK tax payers money in the form of 'aid', any sort of tackling anything??
I'll give you a hint - UK foreign aid isn't what it 'says on the tin' - it's essentially legal bribes on a transactional basis -
"I give you this - you give me that."
It's very nieve to think that UK foreign aid paid to other countries trickles down to poor people, it gets hoovered up by their respective governments and sub-contractors to buy boats and fancy cars.
I reckon what this thread teaches us is that Starmer could literally announce the introduction of rationing and the conscription of everyone under 40 into the military and binners et al would be applauding it as entirely rational and pragmatic response to world events.
Every day I hear people tell me how bad everything is and how the world is screwed. Well that’s all happened on the watch of the likes of Starmer and other establishment politicians who prioritise the acquisition and retaining of power over the use of it to effect positive change.
We could do so much better.
It's very nieve to think that UK foreign aid paid to other countries trickles down to poor people, it gets hoovered up by their respective governments and sub-contractors to buy boats and fancy cars.
Ah, so you think that Nigel Farage was right about international aid when he said it should be cut by 50%
It makes you wonder why in Labour's election manifesto only eight months ago there was a clear commitment to increase international aid, not cut it, as there was also in the election manifesto of your favourite political party mattyfez the LibDems.
It also makes you wonder why Starmer described cutting international aid as an "extremely difficult and painful” decision, did he not realise how corrupt it is?
I chinny reckon you are wrong. So there.
FFS are you really using schoolyard jibes now in response to opinions you don’t like? Grow up!
Two weeks ago the Labour Foreign Secretary :
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/07/trumps-international-aid-cuts-usaid-china-lammy
Donald Trump’s plans to make dramatic cuts to the United States’ international aid budget could be a “big strategic mistake” that allows China to step in and further its global influence, the UK foreign secretary has said.
Development remains a very important soft power tool. And in the absence of development … I would be very worried that China and others step into that gap.
“We were hugely critical of the way that the last government handled the decision. So I would caution US friends to look closely at what went wrong in the United Kingdom as they navigate this decision.”
So David Lammy warns the US government that "dramatic cuts" in international aid budget could be a big strategic mistake, and he emphasizes that he was "hugely critical" of the last government's decision to cut the international aid budget (from 0.7% to 0.5%) and then just two weeks later he announces a 40% cut in the UK international aid budget.
They really are totally clueless aren't they, they have no idea what they are doing and they are obviously just making it up as they go along. David Lammy couldn't even convince himself of his own argument never mind convince Donald Trump.
But hey, the great news is that they are going to accept in full 49 of the 58 recommendations in the Grenfell enquiry, ffs.
Are you backtracking from your original statement now?
No not at all. And it wasn't a statement it was a question.... does it necessarily have to be a custodial sentence?
What is there for me to backtrack on?
I would say so... You can nail them to the wall for me...
Meanwhile...
Latest from Starmer:
On his visit to grand lizard Trump,
The prime minister insisted that “there is no issue between us” on Ukraine as he jetted out – attempting to play down disagreements in the past two weeks.
He said: “Of course, the president has been very clear about the peace that he wants. He’s right about that. We all want peace. The question is, how do we make sure it’s a lasting peace? There’s no issue between us on this.”
His words came as it was revealed he plans to host Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelensky and other European leaders for a defence summit this weekend.
Honestly, the rhetoric from the pretend socialists on here is really not helping anyone.
Just apply the Tory test:
If a Tory leader did anything Starmer was doing would there be pages of comments about Johnson and inmates running the asylum?
But back in material reality energy bills are going up and it's accepted as normal.
Especially having gone on about a £300 reduction in bills. GBenergy are you still being totally pointless ?
(There is also the sneaky uptick in EV tax April -Yes it was a Labour government that introduced a tax on green cars.)
You can't have a plan for society by just doing stupid reactionary things that mostly make people's lives hard and expect to be in power.
I see nothing at all for my small business to get excited about either. Business development is shocking currently. Nothing going off.
Just apply the Tory test:
If a Tory leader did anything Starmer was doing would there be pages of comments about Johnson and inmates running the asylum?
But back in material reality energy bills are going up and it's accepted as normal.
Especially having gone on about a £300 reduction in bills. GBenergy are you still being totally pointless ?
(There is also the sneaky uptick in EV tax April -Yes it was a Labour government that introduced a tax on green cars.)
You can't have a plan for society by just doing stupid reactionary things that mostly make people's lives hard and expect to be in power.
I see nothing at all for my small business to get excited about either. Business development is shocking currently. Nothing going off.
Honestly, the rhetoric from the pretend socialists on here is really not helping anyone.
The pretend socialists being the Labour party?
Great let's agree then being right-wing is shit for most things unless you're proper rich.
No problem.