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"The return of Donald Trump to the White House, the war in Ukraine, the threats of big power politics, and conflicts around mineral and hydrocarbon resources, have provided a catalyst for a Labour story about national and economic security.
Ta. Some of that is even more concerning than some current government policy. Populist simplicities about DEI, judges, financial forecasting, the big state etc. Responding to the "sense of" things rather than evidence.
Some of that is even more concerning than some current government policy. Populist simplicities about DEI, judges, financial forecasting, the big state etc.
Oh it's definitely heavily influenced by the Trumpian zeitgeist. Whether we like it or not there is a reaction in the wider public against what they perceive as a focus on the individual rights of minorities over the economic rights of working people. DEI, trans rights and other 'woke' issues are giving way to more material issues such as house/rent prices, energy bills, wages etc. It was inevitable this was going to happen while mainstream - and especially left leaning - politicians neglected the economic wellbeing of working people. Personally I think you can have both economic equality alongside individual rights but the economic stuff must come first otherwise all the people who don't care about minority issues (of which there are very many) will simply vote for Reform and/or other far right parties.
Labour has a simple choice really, ditch the "woke" identity and green* politics stuff and return to bread and butter issues like the cost of living, wage inequality, and rebuilding public services, or face oblivion at the next election.
*They can still do the green/climate change stuff but they're going to have to do it through the back door while not talking about it too much. Fortunately most voters don't care much about the detail of industrial and energy policy as long as they don't end up paying for it through higher bills.
dash
or they could show some leadership and mould public opinion as those sentiments have been moulded and created by the forces of the right
or they could show some leadership and mould public opinion as those sentiments have been moulded and created by the forces of the right
Nice idea but we all know the dog whistle issues used by the far right are far more powerful and resonant with voters than lefty-liberal calls for working class solidarity. You're never going to get white working class people living in the red wall constituencies caring much about minorities while they can't afford their rent and energy bills. I wish it wasn't the case, but it's the tragic reality of our fragmented and increasingly insular society. The only viable option for the Labour party is to fix the bread and butter issues and hope the identity stuff fades away.
The point above about foreign criminal deportation league tables. I'm guessing there have been FOI requests put in by Reform/Tories for this detailed info, not least because the headline figure has ben going up, and the Government is getting on front foot by publishing in a report with their own take which covers that ground and I'm guessing with historic figures showing doing more than Tories. Get on the front foot with the media
Are we pretending we can reform our way around material conditions and expect the working class to benefit?
We need the whole financial system reworking so it works for public purpose. Governments, the BoE, OBR, Markets (if you like) and astonishingly stupid liberal journalists have delivered failure upon failure for the working class.
No wonder they go vote for the right-wing populists.
With Labour we have the worst of all worlds. A party that follows the worst attributes of both the Tories and Reform. (But not the the good stuff such was Water Nationalisation etc.)
That's what should be concerning
Can someone please explain of what possible use that information is to the public?
Nothing at all, except to pander to the likes of the reform voting neanderthals, actually that’s a slur on neanderthals as they were most likely much more open to societal freedom of movement and welcoming of others.
Labour….never knowingly less ignorant than reform
I'm guessing there have been FOI requests put in by Reform/Tories for this detailed info,
"I am guessing" and "I imagine" are phrases that crop up with incredible regularity in defence of the current labour party and it's policies.
Richard Fuller, the Conservative's shadow chief secretary to the Treasury, insisted to Sky News Mr Jenrick was not talking about a coalition, but meant if you divide up "the right" then "you end up with a far left government" and "we want to make sure we don't repeat that mistake".
It really is a chilling reminder of where UK politics is today that Sky News is able to report that the shadow chief secretary to the Treasury has described the current right-wing UK government as "far left".
Obviously Richard Fuller knows that to be complete bollocks but it is the fact that he presumably feels able and confident to push that ludicrous narrative which I find scary.
And Jenrick is of course absolutely right, all the current trends suggest that united Reform and the Tories could likely slaughter Labour in the next general election. Labour's only chance seems to be increasingly a three way spilt. But that's a three way split with two other hard right parties.
Unless of course Labour start pulling rabbits out of the hat. Starmer doesn't seem to have started the magic yet though.
Far left. Jesus.
If only we had got moderately left.
It's amazing that wanting to fully fund the NHS, build some half-decent infrastructure, housing etc is so terrifying these days.
What a mess.
Successive right/centrist governments not pushing back on dismal false narratives and allowing the massive fail of actual far-right economic policies seem apparently sensible - according to the three main parties. (If we cut then things will definitely improve. We just need to cut better.)
Ah well when Starmer does eventually get a good hiding he will be mocked for years.
This guy doesn't have one consistent ethical bone in his body. He really does get behind whatever opinion thinks might lead to more votes. Usually crafted by and for the right-wing.
Reeves trotting off to America to get a trade deal has got to have some centrists that are refusing to buy USA made products in an absolute tizzer.
has got to have some centrists that are refusing to buy USA made products in an absolute tizzer.
Nah, they will just perform their normal mental gymnastics to justify the hypocrisy, then blame anyone to the left of Thatcher.
Ah well when Starmer does eventually get a good hiding he will be mocked for years.
And he won't give a toss, as embarks on his lucrative post-PM career.
I can imagine him phoning Nick Clegg so that they can have a good laugh concerning the generous personal rewards of catastrophic political failure.
You can imagine the punch line........"and then the muppets swallowed austerity hook line and sinker..... hahaha"
Far left. Jesus.
If only we had got moderately left.
It's amazing that wanting to fully fund the NHS, build some half-decent infrastructure, housing etc is so terrifying these days.
What a mess.
Thse ****s won’t be happy till the majority of the population are reduced back to serfdom and doffing our cap for crusts.
Take the fight to them, aka French Revolution style.
Take the fight to them, aka French Revolution style.
That’s what many are going to do, bust sadly in the form of voting for Reform. Mainstream parties need to get their heads round that pretty quickly. Labour need to do all the economic stuff in that Blue Labour manifesto and probably quite a bit more. They won’t though because Reeves is an establishment neo-liberal to the core and Starmer doesn’t understand enough economics to challenge her.
And he won't give a toss, as embarks on his lucrative post-PM career.
I can imagine him phoning Nick Clegg so that they can have a good laugh concerning the generous personal rewards of catastrophic political failure.
You can imagine the punch line........"and then the muppets swallowed austerity hook line and sinker..... hahaha"
Yeah, but whenever they turn up to an exclusive club they'll still have to queue behind the Brexiteers toasting their own success with duping 'muppets'.
Sorry are you suggesting that Sir Keir Starmer doesn't support Brexit Oakwood...... how do figure that out?
He supports it out of political expediency at the expense of personal distaste.
Something you seem very happy to criticise him for when it comes to other things.
It's something that also gets my goat, TBH. I mean, if you conduct your entire tenure of high office with the aim of not upsetting the political applecart, what are you? Mere flotsam on the sea of society.
Starmer is, basically (and unfortunately) a political scaredy-cat running away from confrontation. I had high hopes, but I think this last roll of the dice for political decency is doomed.
SKS's "views" on brexit post the referendum was a scam to win him support from the labour membership, those views were quickly moved on from once he had achieved that objective. Same as gbernergy's 28 billion, which again quickly disappeared once he had convinced everyone of his "environmental" credentials, and then instead became a vehicle for corporate subsidy's that will cost the public far more in the long run as the asset owners ream off their profits.
This is where his supporters are exactly the same as the maga crowd, they buy the initial rhetoric and promises, then ignore the reality that follows.
Sure.
But whichever way you look at it, that extra £100bn-£120bn a year in GDP sure would come in handy.
And it has practically no downsides - particularly not when you consider all the non-financial upsides of freedom of movement for younger folk to experience 'abroad'.
Starmer being a chicken on this issue is particularly daft - the supporters he thinks he's buying are going to desert him for Reform come what may - the measures they would want against immigrants have not happened.
🤷♂️
And it has practically no downsides
I disagree to an extent, rising GDP without more equal distribution just increases the wealth of asset owners against wage growth and takes primary investments like homes and pensions away from the working population. I was a remainer and am a rejoiner, but I am also aware that membership of the EU does not solve the most fundamental issues of economic equality, 99% of the big issues are down to domestic policy, just as they were down to domestic policies when the brexiters sold their lies to the population.
He supports it out of political expediency at the expense of personal distaste.
Something you seem very happy to criticise him for when it comes to other things.
Absolutely. I am always very happy to criticise hypocrisy.
So for clarity.......is better that Sir Keir Starmer now supports Brexit after he has seen the effect of leaving the EU than if he had supported it before?
I am trying to figure out where Starmer's position is in this queue at the exclusive club of brexiteers which you speak of.
Is it just behind that other passionate remainer Liz Truss?
Starmer is, basically (and unfortunately) a political scaredy-cat running away from confrontation.
I am not sure thats true. He is more than happy to pick fights with anyone on the left.
So for clarity.......is better that Sir Keir Starmer now supports Brexit after he has seen the effect of leaving the EU than if he had supported it before?
For the majority of us saddled with the effects of the idiocy of Brexit, it scarcely matters.
On a personal level, well...
You can either take the view that a reluctant Brexiteer is 'morally' better than a rabid one - but morals hardly come into it. Or you can take the view that the primary sin is not greed or prejudic (the dyed in the wool Brexiteer) but cowardice (the along for the ride type like Starmer).
I'm not sure I care either way. The damage to our economy could be reversed relatively simply. I get MSP's point about distribution, but look where the current round of cuts and austerity is aimed. More money in the pot could reduce the temperature by a degree or two.
Liz Truss is an obvious one. She simply took one look at the political zeitgeist and re-modelled herself as Madame Brexity. That was purely for personal gain - either via advancement to high office or her little game of one-sided bets (at arms length) against the economy of her own country. Jenrick is another one.
In any case we're here talking about Starmer. You think he's a coward for not being more left wing. I think he's a coward for selling his principles to keep a few bigots happy. Seems we agree to some extent.
For the majority of us saddled with the effects of the idiocy of Brexit,
Which makes Farage's claim that net-zero is the 'next Brexit' that he's going to fight [and, he thinks, win] just re-enforces that idea that current politics in the UK has no idea of what it's doing, where it's going, or what its purpose is, or what voters want. Apparently millions now regret their Brexit vote, and allowing Farage to sell them a lie, but are now willing to back him despite? because of? his views on climate change. It makes no sense.
net zero needs to be sold as good jobs and cheap energy, and they need to take the private sector out of it, so that the investment belongs to the country as do the benefits, and that corporate profits are not a cost to the nation but we instead get cheap clean energy with good jobs to real people.
I work in outsourcing for public bodies and have done for most of my life, I know that it costs the public purse at least twice as much to employ me through an outsourcer as if I was directly employed for absolutely no better outcome in service (probably worse).
I hope Labour’s/starmer’s bill for house building gets kicked into the long grass when it comes up for a reading, or at the very least a thorough review of the lack of regulations.
Yep, I’m with George on that one. But, but, but GROWTH!
His attack on environmental regulation, he states, has been inspired by “my conversations with leading CEOs”. He seems blissfully unaware that this is the bit you are not supposed to say.
Politicians are meant to sustain the illusion that governments exist to enact the will of the people, not the will of the corporations.
Well not exactly imo, it's "Labour" politicians who are expected to maintain that illusion of not serving corporate interests. It is what is suppose to differentiate them from the Tories.
But Starmer no longer seems interested in maintaining the illusion that Labour are any different to the Tories, just more competent Tories.
Yeah it makes grim reading but sadly it shouldn't come as any surprise. Starmer proudly boasted to Donald Trump during his very first telephone conversation with him after his inauguration how he was going to embark on a deregulation programme, just to let Trump know what a good boy he is.
His attack on environmental regulation, he states, has been inspired by “my conversations with leading CEOs”. He seems blissfully unaware that this is the bit you are not supposed to say.
Politicians are meant to sustain the illusion that governments exist to enact the will of the people, not the will of the corporations.
Well not exactly imo, it's "Labour" politicians who are expected to maintain that illusion of not serving corporate interests. It is what is suppose to differentiate them from the Tories.
But Starmer no longer seems interested in maintaining the illusion that Labour are any different to the Tories, just more competent Tories.
Yeah it makes grim reading but sadly it shouldn't come as any surprise. Starmer proudly boasted to Donald Trump during his very first telephone conversation with him after his inauguration how he was going to embark on a deregulation programme, just to let Trump know what a good boy he is.
It's all very wrong, IMO...
I actually wrote to my (labour) MP reminding him of the fact my vote was only 'on loan', and if Starmer doesn't get off the fence soon, my vote will go back to either the greens or lib-dems, next opportunity.
Labour are riding a wave of 'not as evil as the conservative & reform', whilst seemingly ignoring that most of the majority came from centrists like me, who would rather keep the extreme right out of government...
It wasn't a vote FOR labour, it was a vote AGAINST extremists.
No answer yet, and it's been 8 days..., won't be holding my breath!
The really worrying thing is the rise of reform precictions in the May local elections... will be an interesting one to watch.
And today we have this:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/farage-send-children-autism-reform-b2738961.html
People must really hate immigrants a lot to hurt themselves on purpose, as an ironic act of defiance.
His environmental vandalism was rather predictable, who can forget when the teenagers he thought he could just use as a backdrop, protested for a green deal, and all he could say was he believed in growth (and lied that he would talk to them later).
The very latest opinion poll gives Reform UK its biggest ever lead over Labour, 8%, with the Tories level pegging with Labour
https://findoutnow.co.uk/blog/voting-intention-23rd-april-2025/
This time last year it was debatable whether Reform UK could manage to win a single seat in a general election, if a general was held now all the indications are that Reform UK would become the largest party in Westminster.
So what significant event has occurred in the last year to have caused this sudden change in Reform UK's fortunes?
None really, apart from Sir Keir Starmer becoming Prime Minister and Rachel Reeves his chancellor. That's it.
Edit : To give some sort of context of how dire it is for Labour 20% is about as low as support ever got for the Tories under Liz Truss's very short and ill-fated premiership, iirc the lowest it ever fell under Liz Truss was 19%
The obvious difference in the reactions to these two crises is that the Tories responded by, quite rightly, panicking and getting shot of Liz Truss as quickly as humanly possible, whilst Labour on the other hand seem perfectly relaxed about it all as they gently cruise towards the catastrophic waterfall.
The very latest opinion poll gives Reform UK its biggest ever lead over Labour, 8%, with the Tories level pegging with Labour
https://findoutnow.co.uk/blog/voting-intention-23rd-april-2025/
This time last year it was debatable whether Reform UK could manage to win a single seat in a general election, if a general was held now all the indications are that Reform UK would become the largest party in Westminster.
So what significant event has occurred in the last year to have caused this sudden change in Reform UK's fortunes?
None really, apart from Sir Keir Starmer becoming Prime Minister and Rachel Reeves his chancellor. That's it.
Mixed messages from labour, (no supprise there) they are trying to be progressive, whilst also pandering to extremists. They don't know if they want to follow the reform/trump/russia playbook or not.
They know a huge grass-roots portion of people who vote labour 'no questions asked', are massive biggots/racists etc. and so are desperatly trying to cling onto those votes that have probably already gone to reform, in reality.
They know a huge grass-roots portion of people who vote labour 'no questions asked', are massive biggots/racists etc.
If that is an issue today it would have been an issue this time last year when the polls were suggesting that Reform UK were unlikely to win a single seat in a general election.
The only thing that has changed significantly since then is that Sir Keir Starmer is now Prime Minister.
What do think voters have discovered about Sir Keir Starmer since he became Prime Minister that they didn't know about before?
That he is more left-wing than they expected?
The really worrying thing is the rise of reform precictions in the May local elections... will be an interesting one to watch.
Could go either way. Since they are guaranteed to be a shitshow if they do get power in any local councils and will run into the problem of shouting "immigrants" when people are asking about potholes will start to make those who feel we need a different party from Labour/tories in charge to think that just possibly the answer isnt the tory filled reform party.
Unfortunately though I suspect it will also make Starmer double down on his attempts to appeal to the reform lot and hence alienate everyone else whilst failing to capture their votes. So I think in 2029 we will end up with lots of "who else will you vote for", "not voting for labour is a vote for tory/reform" whilst ignoring that would be the case regardless.
net zero needs to be sold as good jobs and cheap energy, and they need to take the private sector out of it, so that the investment belongs to the country as do the benefits, and that corporate profits are not a cost to the nation but we instead get cheap clean energy with good jobs to real people
Absolutely.
But I reckon it's too late. Net-zero has already been hijacked by the right and weaponised as a terrible thing in the mainstream. People believe net-zero is responsible for big bills and the decay of the Western Civilisation.
The push-back (like anything that is for the good of public purpose) has been non-existent from Labour.
Cost has been attached to it and Labour are openly avoiding anything to do with money. (The money is the easy bit.)
For crying out loud - long term it's the only option.
We absolutely can't afford not to is the only logical answer.
They know a huge grass-roots portion of people who vote labour 'no questions asked', are massive biggots/racists etc.
If that is an issue today it would have been an issue this time last year when the polls were suggesting that Reform UK were unlikely to win a single seat in a general election.
The only thing that has changed significantly since then is that Sir Keir Starmer is now Prime Minister.
What do think voters have discovered about Sir Keir Starmer since he became Prime Minister that they didn't know about before?
That he is more left-wing than they expected?
Your'e cherry picking the stats to suit your angle, yes reform got 4 seats from nothing, but the lib-dems also went up to 72 seats from what, ten or twelve? something like that.
What do think voters have discovered about Sir Keir Starmer since he became Prime Minister that they didn't know about before?
He isn't quite as racist as they hoped for?
The push-back (like anything that is for the good of public purpose) has been non-existent from Labour.
Starmer today
“Some in the UK don’t agree with [net zero]. They think energy security can wait. They think tackling climate change can wait. But do they also think that billpayers can wait? Do they think economic growth can wait? Do they think we can win the race for green jobs and investment by going slow?”
Starmer is, basically (and unfortunately) a political scaredy-cat running away from confrontation.
In any case we're here talking about Starmer. You think he's a coward for not being more left wing. I think he's a coward for selling his principles to keep a few bigots happy.
This goes right back to 15 years ago and Gordon Brown crawling back pathetically to that person he was caught on open mic referring to as a "bigoted old woman". He was right. And rather than go back apologising, he should have stood up and said "nope, I was right, you are a bigoted old bat".
Starmer is in the same situation now, desperate to avoid referring to the bigoted old blue rinse brigade as bigoted, in fact he's trying to pander to them.
Labour were elected on a huge majority, he should have got on with things there and then.
But no, he's picking his way through the easy middle ground as dictated by the Daily Mail comments section. He's also picked up where Sunak left off on the ridiculous culture war stuff of "I'm on the side of drivers". This: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2kv8qw83gpo is more performative nonsense - oh excellent, let's chuck 10,000 more cars on the road per month rather than actually sort out public transport or provide an integrated planning system that means homes are near jobs rather than new builds chucked up on greenfield sites bloody miles from anywhere. 🙄
They know a huge grass-roots portion of people who vote labour 'no questions asked', are massive biggots/racists etc.
If that is an issue today it would have been an issue this time last year when the polls were suggesting that Reform UK were unlikely to win a single seat in a general election.
The only thing that has changed significantly since then is that Sir Keir Starmer is now Prime Minister.
What do think voters have discovered about Sir Keir Starmer since he became Prime Minister that they didn't know about before?
That he is more left-wing than they expected?
Your'e cherry picking the stats to suit your angle, yes reform got 4 seats from nothing, but the lib-dems also went up to 72 seats from what, ten or twelve? something like that.
I haven't used any stats at all in the piece that you quote. Which stats do you think I have cherry picked?
Btw talking of cherry picking stats LibDem did indeed go from 11 MPs to 72 but their share of the vote barely changed. In fact the LibDems actually got fewer votes in the last general election than they received in the 2019 general election
What do think voters have discovered about Sir Keir Starmer since he became Prime Minister that they didn't know about before?
He isn't quite as racist as they hoped for?
Do you actually believe that?
And today we have this:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/farage-send-children-autism-reform-b2738961.html
People must really hate immigrants a lot to hurt themselves on purpose, as an ironic act of defiance.
Surely it simply means that Nigel Farage and Labour are singing from the same hymn sheet?
The health secretary, Wes Streeting, has said he believes there is an “overdiagnosis” of some mental health conditions as well as “too many people being written off” – factors he said were the key drive for the government’s welfare measures.
Both Nigel Farage's and Labour's prognosis seems remarkably similar.