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Weve gone from "the polls will narrow"
to "the polls arent narrowing"
to "I think the polls are widening"
to "craaaap"
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1803372839040409833
The inflation news might help a tiny bit, but if something big doesnt happen I reckon the Tory turnout is going to be at a record low
Some people just want....
Yeah you can normally find "Some People" that want most things at all points along the political spectrum, so what? I think nickc's post on the previous page summarised what Most People now want having been fatigued by ideologues and rhetoric from all sides for far too long.
The majority apparently voted for some sort of aimless "change" in 2019 from the same party that had already been in power for a while, but had just had an internal squabble and switched their mascot. Having carried on along the same trajectory and more internal squabbles and mascot swaps I think it's safe to say they've eroded enough voters patience now, all they've done is make the alternatives more appealing.
Label anyone not a Tory or a Reform loon as "Bolsheviks", "Socialists", "Anarchists", "Marxists" whatever labels you like. It doesn't deflect for the fact that the majority of people want the ****less bastards currently destroying the country gone, even if their replacement's offering seems a little sparse in places and doesn't quite fit everyone's vision of a utopian future.
The 'reverse project fear' from Right leaning people waking up to their evaporating popularity is going to get increasingly hyperbolic the more dire the poles look for them and the closer they come to election day...
The current Tory line seems to be "the only pole that matters is the one on July the 4th" Too ****ing true.
Don't know whether this link will work....
https://twitter.com/iampetmutton/status/1803046367972974864
Many people are happy to go a little bit either way at elections, but not too far. Which is why Starmer is going to win cos the middle don’t like all that “Tory” swing to the right.
Maybe so - but the country's state is in a downward trajectory and at some point - we will be forced to deal with it. There ain't no right wing or even centre party that is remotely tooled up for it.
Right-wing outcomes - will only be fixed by pushing back with coherent policies and good progressive arguments; certainly won't be resolved by who is the best in PMQs or who can lie their way to power by constantly softening the blow to the voters.
Fully costed - blah blah, markets etc. Climate and the NHS doesn't care about this nonsense.
Starmer’s father owned the factory did he not?
Sole trader, I thought.
It’s weird how we don’t run a presidential system, but it’s all about the leader…?
'Twas ever thus. Personally I'd be happy to have a government that isn't made up of a bunch of crooks lining their pockets.
Labour leader unable to define ‘working class’
Here in 2024 I would struggle with that one too despite being from a 1950s solidly working class background.
“the only pole that matters is the one on July the 4th”
I though brexit was supposed to get rid of the Poles?
is that the majority of the electorate are moderates who live in the middle somewhere, a bit centre left or right
Which is why the libdems win every election hands ****ing down.
Oh wait no they dont so just possibly this cry of the non moderate ideologues in the centre is actually the same sort of bollocks trotted out by the gammons about being a silent majority.
What Blair realised was he had to make some effort to keep the core vote voting for him whilst pandering to the centrist nutters. He also knew he had exhausted the patience for this and hence handed it over to Brown so he could walk away a champion despite having trashed the car for the next race.
Cameron also realised this hence why he went in for plenty of culture war bollocks to keep his core vote on side whilst pandering to the centre. He was less talented than Blair at the balancing act hence why we ended up with brexit.
The working class sell their labour power, the bourgeoisie own and\or control the means of production. Starmer’s father owned the factory did he not?
At some point this has to be called trolling.
No he did not. He was a toolmaker in a factory.
🙄. its absolutely amazing how this lie has stuck around!
...and on some quick googling his dad made some offhand reference to "my factory" as I might refer to "my office" as in the place where I work. And this was picked up by the dribble out of one side of the mouth conspiracy nutters as meaning he owned the place, and repeated in a blog by that bastion of truth Ashcroft.
We can argue whether starmer was lower lower middle or upper skilled working class, we are british after all, but really this is nonsense.
Having reverted to the posho nonsense it's only a matter of time until this poster goes back to the alcoholic smears. But why ffs? For attention? (Which is unfortunately what I'm giving. I;'ll stop,)
The working class sell their labour power, the bourgeoisie own and\or control the means of production.
That's not the normal definition, it tends to be focused on the level of skill, pay and education, although i do understand a lot of folk like saying they're working class when they're not, they are more bourgeois 🤣
@dissonance who are these centrist nutters and what qualifies them as such?
IME on the doorstep, most folks, want:
I'd add one thing to your list right at the top. They want the ability to stand on their own two feet and support their families and a level playing field in their efforts to do that. This is what drives most of the anti-immigration sentiment and perceptions about economic performance. Where Corbyn screwed up is too many of his policies were perceived as handouts from the govt to people who either didn't need it or weren't deserving. Same goes for much of the 'benefits' of being in the EU. The UK is much more like the US in this regard than most western European countries.
who are these centrist nutters and what qualifies them as such?
Those who havent reached their positions by any real consideration of their politics and are generally incapable of discussing politics without instantly demonising those who disagree. The sort of person who trots out variants on the "silent majority" and accuses anyone slightly to the left or right as being either communists or fascists.
Often those who pat themselves on the back calling themselves moderates whilst demanding anyone who disagrees gets expelled from the party to maintain its ideological purity.
The "centre" is no more immune to those types than the left or right.
'did he not?' I was asking the question having heard the assertion lots of times. Anyway it matters not one jot what your parents did, it's where you stand now in terms of social class and whose interests you represent.
sweet jesus why can't we vote tomorrow ?
https://twitter.com/PoliticsMoments/status/1802090458958479863
I doubt 5% of the population could tell you what actual party manifesto commitments are. People vote on feel and emotion. If we had a bit of positivity from the media we would all feel a bit happier in The world.
"Those who havent reached their positions by any real consideration of their politics and are generally incapable of discussing politics without instantly demonising those who disagree."
I could say that about people on all parts of the political spectrum, there is nothing about that which is unique or observed only in centrists.
"The sort of person who trots out variants on the “silent majority”"
I don't even know what this means.
"accuses anyone slightly to the left or right as being either communists or fascists."
Can you share any quotes of anywhere you've read this opinion? I haven't come across anyone who thinks this black and white about it but maybe you have.
"Often those who pat themselves on the back calling themselves moderates"
Why shouldn't they if that's what they believe is a sensible viewpoint to have?
Thought of becoming a 'full member'?
Those who havent reached their positions by any real consideration of their politics
Yes I concur. I've had the vote for over 50 years and never once given any real consideration of my politics. I just look for the box that says "centrist nutter" and pop a cross in it.
Or are you saying the "centrist nutters" are a subset of "centrists" and not all "centrists" are "centrist nutters"?
"Labour leader unable to define ‘working class’
What a time to be alive!"
It's quite a difficult concept to pin down in contemporary society though surely - it's almost a meaningless term
Dan Evans book - A Nation of Shopkeepers quite an interesting read
It’s quite a difficult concept to pin down in contemporary society though surely
Yep, the number of varying definitions with a quick Google suggest it is very much open. I would say I was working class (lorry driver dad, part time dinner lady and then home help mum) when under 20 but would now describe myself as middle class due to lifestyle, job, money etc,. I guess it is fluid but could I become working class again now that I have tasted middle class life?
The only thing I definitely cannot become is upper class but we all hate them anyway don't we...
We shouldn't confuse class with status. Educational attainment clearly can make a difference in the workplace in terms of salary, conditions etc but many/most people are only a few salary cheques away from deep doo doo. You might see yourself as 'middle classs' but ultimately your interests are shared with the 'working class' as you are all employees. These divisions can be exploited nicely to divide and rule when people are encouraged to think they are 'a cut above' and they end up voting and acting against their real interests.
im still on the fence between centrist moderate and centrist nutter.
last week i met a moderate nutter.
in other news, anyone catch the SDP party political broadcast last night - it was captivating and hilarious in equal measure
If you want to understand how complex the terms 'working class' or 'middle class' are, try explaining them to a foreigner. How you can be a working class multi-millionaire or be both poor and middle-class tends to confuse them.
It's not really because we're particularly weird about these issues, it's that the words are heavily overloaded here. In the USA they are just categories of income, nothing more. What we would call middle or working class attitudes still exist, they just aren't called that.
In any case, I think in the UK there are still traditional working class people and traditional middle class people; but there are now big areas that don't fall into either definition.
Tory government worst in post war history?
Not sure why it needs the question mark
Here in 2024 I would struggle with that one too despite being from a 1950s solidly working class background.
I remember reading a simple definition along the lines of
"Working class"
If work stopped tomorrow you'd be in trouble by the end of the month, Basically it's hand to mouth with no significant regular savings and you don't regularly spend much on non-essentials. Rents a home.
"Middle Class"
You could take a month off work and nothing much would change. You go on holidays, you have hobbies, life is generally good. If you feel like you're struggling then someone will give you a slap and tell you things could be worse, because they could. Owns a home.
"Upper class"
You'd be in trouble if the people working for you stopped tomorrow. Owns a Buy-to-let.
It's only a problem when people start with the inverse snobbery, or trying to define it by industrial sectors. Someone working on an IT helpdesk is far more "working class" than say a worker on oil rig.
In any case, I think in the UK there are still traditional working class people and traditional middle class people; but there are now big areas that don’t fall into either definition.
I think that's a different matter with entrenched prejudice against regional accents and the like and the idea that class is somehow defined by what you mean by Tea or Dinner and what you call a bread roll.