That picture 🤣

I have to say, this GE campaign has been a real eye opener.  I thought that I was aware of the real depths of just how much of an alien species your standard Tory is; I was catastrophically wrong.

This link is about French politics but I think it's relevant to us too and might be where we end up one day, along with much of Europe.

Effectively, the far right having a taste of power and having to actually implement the policies they scream from the sidelines could be their undoing. It wouldn't be without sorry term pain though, it will have a price.

It's an interesting read, not very long either.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/12/opinions/france-macron-snap-election-far-right-andelman/index.html

Where was that, looks a bit nice? 👍

The biking mecca that is Woburn/Rushmere. That's right, next to Milton Keynes!

Cleverly on Peston just before squirming like an eel when asked about Tory boy's gambling habits, completely deflated

The biking mecca that is Woburn/Rushmere.

Ah, cheers! 👍

I know that binners and ernie are actively campaigning.

Anyone else?

I ask only because the noise and frothing is pointless; as the phrase goes...'actions speak louder than words'.

As a measure - the minimum rate for stuffing leaflets into letter boxes is about 100/hour. No need to engage with punters on the doorstep; just stuff and move on.

21 days until Independence Day; one hour per day x 21 days = 2100 leaflets per person.

IF you want to make a difference, get involved; it's painless.

Alternatively, spend hours on STW and other media where your comments will have ZERO impact.

IF you want a better life for yourself - and family, if applicable - do something about it.

Doesn't need to be active involvement on the doorstep - look at 'phone banking'.

Enough for today; tomorrow, Thursday, will be two sessions of leaflet delivery followed by canvassing.

The tories photo looks like it was taken just outside the bookies a couple of weeks ago

A bit of light relief

Some great insight and observations on the state of politics and public debate here - well worth a watch.

Alternatively, spend hours on STW and other media where your comments will have ZERO impact.

As would stuffing leaflets through doors other than I would be wasting paper and more of my time.  The predicted result where I live is as follows;

Tory 40%

Labour 24%

Reform 16%

LibDem 13%

Green 7%

You are telling me that actively campaigning for Green is a good use of my time.  Just because you like doing it doesn't make it right or are you suggesting I spend even more time and drive to a constituency where the polling is a lot closer?

According to the pisa rankings England did better than the other nations

There could be many reasons for that. Educational achievement is linked to economic background and Wales for example is poorer than England on average.

kerley
Free Member
Alternatively, spend hours on STW and other media where your comments will have ZERO impact.

As would stuffing leaflets through doors other than I would be wasting paper and more of my time. The predicted result where I live is as follows;

I think you've taken frank's generalised comment way to personally kerley. The point he makes is valid but not mandatory.

Just my opinion, I'm not looking to start anyone's day, including mine, with a dollop of poo.😁

Frank, I’m up working at Tweedlove this weekend, but next week I’ll be on leaflet drops. With my youngest now his exams are done. The eldest won’t be joining us this time though sadly … like many young people she’s angry with Starmer for not creating peace in the Middle East.

Also the pisa data was skewed. Which gave inflated pisa score. UK gov report.  Low response rate with a skew towards better performing schools oecd reckon it's about 8 or 9 points worth of inflation.

You are telling me that actively campaigning for Green is a good use of my time.

I’d be actively campaigning for Labour in that seat, even if a Green member. Exactly the kind of seat the Tories are hoping to hold onto thanks to the voting system.

Alternatively, spend hours on STW and other media where your comments will have ZERO impact.

Political parties spend a hell of a lot of money on media campaigns, which rather suggests that online discourse does have some impact.

I'm not leafleting no: I'm a Greenpeace activist and their campaign throughout this year has been door knocking to convince people to become 'climate voters'.  Not my bag at all.

Some early headlines from the Labour manifesto in the grauniad. One key point I want to emphasise

The Labour manifesto will promise to not raise corporation tax, and to launch a new industrial strategy with clean energy at its centre and enact rapid planning reforms to incentivise developers to build new infrastructure.

I was at an industry round table event earlier this week and this was the consensus in the room that we were in dire need for. It doesn't have to be perfect, but we need a strategy to work within so we can do long term planning and seek investment.

Having a strategy to work within, hopefully with a clear roadmap on things like hydrogen and deployment of new technologies gives us more chance of securing funding for major step changes in decarbonisation. It'll also make our parent companies/global leaders happier because they can see how little the Tories have done outside of freeports (which don't help existing assets elsewhere)

Tory 40%

Labour 24%

Reform 16%

LibDem 13%

Green 7%

The sad thing about that data is that the Tory  "easily" be voted out. Instead of that the Libdems/Greens will wake up to a Tory MP in their constituency.

I’d be actively campaigning for Labour in that seat, even if a Green member. Exactly the kind of seat the Tories are hoping to hold onto thanks to the voting system.

I think they are more than hoping to hold it.  I would put a lot of money of them holding it.  You are getting absolutely none of the die hard right wingers in my area to switch to Labour by dropping some leaflets.

Also not sure why I would want to spend my time campaigning for Labour seeing that they are a complete let down.

I would be better served dropping Reform leaflets as that has more chance of dropping tory vote but if you now suggest I should go around dropping Reform leaflets then you can get lost I'm afraid.

Besides, it is actually verifiably, objectively true that the secondary education system in England is better than those in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. Sunak has actually managed to say something true for once!

72% of the English population lives in southern and central England, so…yeah…

with clean energy at its centre

Wasn't there already a big green plan that Labour have dropped/diluted?

Wasn’t there already a big green plan that Labour have u-turned on already?

This is the media trap. The big green plan is actually pretty consistent in goals and mechanisms, the firm commitment for £28bn is the rollback.

While still undecided, stuffing my letterbox (fnarr fnarr) is futile on a par with posting here.   Doubly so if you are a hard brexshit tolerant party.

Presumably the moneybags lot will be hiring agencies to do their stuffing so, no telling the stuffers to get stuffed, they are probably innocent.

Is there a reason why, given the struggling state of the NHS, none of the main parties seems to be talking about well-being and the benefits of improving diet, lifestyle, active transport etc, and reducing the load on the health service that way?

Is it just not 'sexy'? Potentially unpopular? At odds with Big Food and the automotive lobby? Or something else? Is it simply a basic human right to eat lots of ultra-processed food and sit on the sofa that whizzes past me in my middle class STW echo chamber?

It baffles me that the NHS is a major issue in this election, but preventative health policy is barely mentioned.

Call me slightly cynical, or possibly even a conspiracy theorist but was it just coincidental that Craig Williams - one of Sunak's closest aides - announced that he was being investigated for possible gambling irregularities on the evening before the Labour Party manifesto is launched?

Normally this would be all over the front pages of the papers, websites, and new headlines, distracting from the real news.

Don't think it's worked this time, thankfully.

not everyone would agree that pisa rankings are a verifiable objective measure of performance but even if you do, they are a measure of the output not of the system.   It’s entirely possible that if you took the same students and put them through the Scottish of Welsh systems they would have done even better and Jocks and Taffs are just thick!...countries further down the table have a different educational culture that is not about churning out drones who feel under massive parental pressure to perform.

This is a really weird set of assertions to explain poor performance of education systems: that PISA rankings are meaningless, that Scots and Welsh are inherently "thick", and that Scottish and Welsh education systems regard "15-year-olds' [using] heir reading, mathematics and science knowledge and skills to meet real-life challenges" (which is what the OECD PISA survey mentioned measures) as being evidence of "drones" churned out under parental pressure. 😳 Important to note it's a long term decline in Scotland's rankings too.

It would of course be easier to compare the Scottish education system to others within the UK...but the SNP withdrew Scotland from other international benchmarking studies. Still, the education guy at the time (whatever happened to him?) said the SNP "was committed to OECD’s PISA survey which he described as an effective indicator of how the whole Scottish education system was performing".

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16862149.schools-withdrawn-global-surveys-to-save-cash/

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,scotland-falls-behind-england-in-global-education-study

I haven't noticed it among NI and Welsh people (although tbf I've never even been to NI) but in Scotland there is a smug attitude among some that SNP mismanagement or higher taxes or whatever is a price worth paying because the education or health services or social services are "better than down south". But the evidence doesn't show that, and certainly doesn't show that they're good. The state of all these things everywhere in the UK is unacceptable.

but was it just coincidental that Craig Williams – one of Sunak’s closest aides – announced that he was being investigated for possible gambling irregularities on the evening before the Labour Party manifesto is launched?

Nah that's just standard tory corruption /incompetence

Hanlon's razor

It's conceivable that Williams thought he could mention it on a big news day and it would get drowned out, but the Tory party generally isn't capable of a conspiracy to do that atm.

@badlywireddog it's not just the NHS, it's social care full stop that's struggling as demand is rapidly out stripping the increasing spending. We need people as a whole to take a lot more responsibility for their physical and mental health but telling individuals they need to take some responsibility isn't popular or to be honest works. The alternative is restrictions on personal liberties like controls on unhealthy food, LTNs and traffic reduction measures, all of which are about a popular with the masses as a fart in a space suit.

Meh we never had sky tv,(or a vhs player - not sure sky was a thing )but I didn’t get to go to Winchester either.

It baffles me that the NHS is a major issue in this election, but preventative health policy is barely mentioned.

Do they really want to talk about ‘anything’ that is really important  after the lessons learned with Brexit, or that which shall be not named. Reality/Truth is unimportant.

I overheard Rishi saying   that people must have been happy with the tories last time as they voted them back in,I vaguely remember people voted a charismatic bloke specifically to get Brexit done.

Anyway that nice chap also promised 40 new hospitals 🙂

Effectively, the far right having a taste of power and having to actually implement the policies they scream from the sidelines could be their undoing.

I wonder where Macron was looking to make that observation? 🙂

It's lovely to have been living in Europe's petri dish for the last decade or so. Perhaps the Tory slogan needs to be "We make  the mistakes that others learn from"

but the Tory party generally isn’t capable of a conspiracy to do that atm.

And someone thick enough not to realise that the bookies might take a certain interest in a tory mp successfully "guessing" the date of the election is unlikely to plan sufficiently ahead to hide the announcement.

"Not to realise that the bookies might take a certain interest in a tory mp successfully “guessing” the date of the election"

The two interesting things here are that he didn't stick more on (£100 made him £500 - why didn't he put ten times that much on?) and that the bookie succesfully identified him as a politically exposed person AND queried his "novelty" bet.

I know that binners and ernie are actively campaigning.

Anyone else?

I ask only because the noise and frothing is pointless; as the phrase goes…’actions speak louder than words’.

Frank:

I have been very politically engaged most of my life.  However in this election there is no party I can support.  How do you suggest I square that circle?  I'm in Scotland which changes things a bit

tories - obviously beyond the pale 🙂

Labour - I cannot support a party that is pro brexit and lies about it ( no economic case to rejoin) and where they are anti democratic with regard to the devolved bodies and adherence to tory spending limits means no change in Scotland even if they do get in

Lib dems?  No apology for Carmichael the liar nor for the coalition

SNP - tired and too centralising and my MP is a liar

Greens - wasted all their political capital on trans rights and split the party over it

My constituency will only be labour or SNP - it matters not really as neither will support a tory government.  My SNP MP has lied to my face.  Labour candidate seems decent.

It really pains me to be this way about an election but there is no need for a tactical anti tory vote in my constituency and neither of the likely winners can I support.  Scottish greens having no MPs there is no "short money" arguement

So how do I square this circle?

Meh we never had sky tv,(or a vhs player – not sure sky was a thing )but I didn’t get to go to Winchester either.

The gross national average salary in the UK is only slightly more than the annual day pupil fees for Winchester College.

On the basis of your own post, TJ, Labour. Better a decent bloke than a liar to represent you in parliament.

However in this election there is no party I can support.

Only one party has demonstrated themselves to be utterly shit and callous along with it in the last 14years.  The others might be poor, they might be better.  So there is an obvious imperative to get rid of the incumbent; therefore vote the most effective way to do that.

You aren't marrying the leaders, it's just a probability calculation.

So there is an obvious imperative to get rid of the incumbent; therefore vote the most effective way to do that.

In this election it makes zero difference in my constituency.  Tories have zero chance

Charismatic far right libertarian with mad hair elected on simple solutions to complex issues, starts to enact mad policies in Argentina...

Inevitably, buyers remorse. Macron will be watching with interest.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm55yv0g0veo

Frank:

I have been very politically engaged most of my life.  However in this election there is no party I can support

Ahem….

@politecameraaction - I wasn't defending Scotland (or the SNP) - I was challenging the claim that there was an objective measure of how secondary education systems were performing.  PISA is a measure of how smart the output is - but it can't surely be the only measure (and I take your point that people may have chosen to avoid other measures for good or bad reasons), and its not a measure of how good the system is.  IF the system is crap but the starting point was better; or the system is crap but the parents are more engaged; or the system is crap but the parents have more money to pay for private tutors to shore it up then the outcome is likely to be better in spite of the system.  If your sampling approach is biased (and presumably PISA don't have a good way to sample the pupils who just don't turn up!) you are likely to think its better - or looked at another way, if you improve attendance from the less successful but keep the system the same then your results will trend downwards (and the corollary - if you give up on the "slackers" then come test day, you only have better pupils there!).  And then as with all metrics there is the risk that you focus your activity on improving the metric.  e.g. if PISA has an emphasis on STEM then you neglect humanities, if PISA is about the performance of a 15 yr old then you steer towards that learning at 14/15 but do less to embed it for the 16-18 yr olds so they leave having gained less.

My comment about "drones churned out under parental pressure" was because the top countries in PISA are Singapore, Macau, Chinese Taipei, Hong Kong, Japan, South Korea (curiously Ireland does very well in reading).  Is that the model of education we aspire towards?  Is an educational system that measures success on independent academic skills in three subject areas the priority?  If education is assumed to be a tool for economic growth is it important that the "workers" can work well with each other in teams?   Do we look at the German or Norwegian education systems and think - I'm glad my kids don't go to school there (both ranked worse than the UK)?

What the PISA scores tell you nothing about is the disparity in results across the population.  To me that is a much better metric of the system.  I don't know how it varies, people across england seem to go to quite some lengths to get pupils in better schools (and in Scotland pay more for houses because they are close to schools with better reputations) so we at least perceive that the system is not even for all.

Is it just not ‘sexy’?

Breakfasts in schools. I presume/hope that’ll be in the Labour manifesto.

The stuff for adults can wait. Intervention for kids needed yesterday.

TJ - does Robin Harpers defection to Labour affect your decision at all?

Scotroutes - it reinforces my feeling that the greens have lost their way.  I still cannot vote for a party that endorses brexit and lies about it

Uncle Jezza - I can see you in some red trousers and a tweed jacket, so maybe….

Now now binners - I have not gone senile yet 🙂

I am clearly very immature. 🙂

https://twitter.com/MichaelTakeMP/status/1801145726153429489

Watching the local news this morning, there were a couple of fisherman being interviewed regarding the upcoming election.

Both were massively disenfranchised. Both said the Tories had let them down, & they'd been lied to.

& both said that Labour wouldn't have been any better - cos they're the same (not sure how they have been able to view the alternate universe where Labour were in power) but I think it's people like this that will see Reform as their home to bring about change.

They're the people  that Labour need to get onside.

That Argentinian is as useless a tool as his chainless chainsaw.

Is it just me or does this election campaign feel like it’s been going on since the Dawn of time?

If you want to measure the success of an education system then a value-added analysis rather than outcomes would give a more accurate picture.

binners
Full Member
Is it just me or does this election campaign feel like it’s been going on since the Dawn of time?

It already seems an age ago that Sunak risked drowning outside number 10 in the rain!

Only one party has demonstrated themselves to be utterly shit and callous along with it in the last 14years.

As TJ mentioned, he lives in Scotland, where the SNP has been in power for 16 years, and has proven itself to be utterly shit and callous in government. So that's two parties at least.

As TJ mentioned, he lives in Scotland, where the SNP has been in power for 16 years

They've been in power in the Scottish Parliament, but this isn't a Holyrood election it's a Westminster one where the SNP were not in power.  Therefore you need to think about the whole UK (which I appreciate might be tough for some Scots 😉 )

Now thats just not so PCA - the SNP / Green government has done good stuff for the poor the sick and the needy from reduced taxes and increased benefits to better rental protections to free tertiary education

Interestingly Binners there is no sign of an election campaign here at all.  Nothing.

Interestingly Binners there is no sign of an election campaign here at all. Nothing.

Not a lot of effort round here currently either.

Few libdem posters in windows and thats about it. No recycling through the door yet.

Has anyone seen any vote Conservative boards in anyone's gardens? I've seen a few Labour & a few Lib Dem, but not a single Conservative one.
This in a mainly Tory stronghold.

If Starmer compares himself with Thatcher and they're touting trickle down in their manifesto then it's no wonder fishermen and many others see little difference between them. Fortunately, our LP candidate has campaigned for a ceasefire and election calculus gives her a 100% nailed on chance.

I'm on the other side of Edinburgh to TJ and I've not been leafleted at all yet, nor seen any other signs of the election, except for receiving my polling card yesterday.

Yeah this campaign is dragging on. I think partly because it feels like a foregone conclusion, the main contenders and the areas of policy focus are pretty close to each other, so there's mainly wrangling over small details. I was desperate for the election, and will be happy when (hopefully) the Tories are eviscerated. I'll enjoy election night itself, but based on what I've heard so far, i'm not filled with hope for the future, sadly. Maybe the Labour manifesto will unleash interesting ideas, but it doesn't look likely.

I'm more looking forward to watching some football, and the Tour (Divide and de France), and some Olympics. Maybe just need a good sleep and get out on the right side of bed! 🙂

PrinceJohn
Full Member
Has anyone seen any vote Conservative boards in anyone’s gardens? I’ve seen a few Labour & a few Lib Dem, but not a single Conservative one.
This in a mainly Tory stronghold.

Fair amount of labour ones round here, no Tory ones that I've seen (tbh, massive shy Tory syndrome going one I think) and one house with a Reform poster in every window.😁

I think we might just get our Tory MP out. We flipped to a Labour council last year after years of Tory so I'm hopeful.

Is it just me or does this election campaign feel like it’s been going on since the Dawn of time?

For me it's a combination. On the one hand I am enjoying the daily Tory blunders so much that I fear that it is going too fast and all that enjoyment will come to an abrupt halt.

But on the other hand Electoral Armageddon Day for the Tories can't come soon enough for me.

I'm in a safe labour seat.

Only pamphlet is from the green candidate. Said green candidate is someone I've had professional dealings with and he's a smug arsehole, so he'll never get my vote.

Annoyingly there are better green party reps in this area but they never get a look in.

Lib dems, reform and Tories are ghosts

The Labour manifesto will promise to not raise corporation tax

I think they are missing a trick there. "We are not raising personal taxation but raising tax on large corps" is, I reckon, a vote winner with the general population.

Has anyone seen any vote Conservative boards in anyone’s gardens?

Historically a LibDem/Tory swing seat here, usually plenty of both boards out. I haven't seen one Tory board this time.

I saw a Murray (Lab) poster in Morningside yesterday - that is one so far.    What is very striking is that both here in SE Scotland and in Northumberland, I have yet to see one of those traditional big (only they can afford them) Conservative posters in a field.

“We are not raising personal taxation but raising tax on large corps”

Corporation Tax isn’t the only tax you can make corporations pay. Windfall taxes etc can be more targeted, as part of a gov strategy of intervention to change market behaviour not just to claw money back.

Has anyone seen any vote Conservative boards in anyone’s gardens? I’ve seen a few Labour & a few Lib Dem, but not a single Conservative one.

Not in any gardens, but I've seen quite a few big Conservative boards in farmer's fields round here (South Cambs).

A damning indictment of the consequences of a staggeringly cynical Conservative policy decision in 2010

this isn’t a Holyrood election it’s a Westminster one where the SNP were not in power.

Well sure - but you were talking about parties that have or have not shown themselves to be shit in government. It's the same party. Does the SNP get to disclaim its terrible track record in Holyrood when standing for election to Westminster? Do the Tories get to disclaim their track record in Westminster when standing for election to Holyrood?

Interestingly Binners there is no sign of an election campaign here at all.  Nothing.

Same near me. Ive had a couple of leaflets and seen max 3 posters. Obviously evidence of English chauvinism and the elite media echo chamber's tribal hatred of...London? Or maybe elections just aren't won or lost by posters in windows any more.

So, is Starmer channeling Margaret Thatcher or Liz Truss with his 'Wealth creation is all that matters' manifesto launch?

The painful truth is that there is no crock of gold magic money tree.

We can improve our position as a nation only by working together to create greater wealth.

We cannot do it by each fighting for a bigger share of the existing cake.

The cake is too small; the fight too damaging; and the result, impoverishment, cynicism, and conflict.

It will be the job of the next Conservative Labour government to set the economy on a new course of expansion.

Just to be charitable, I'm going to go with Thatcher.

Stolen from the Guardian, btw.

There’s some heavy Lib Dem campaigning here in this Tory stronghold, although a Tory placard appeared last night.

im so angry that anyone in my villiage would suggest voting Tory that I’ve gone to dig out my sharpies… just not sure if that’s a very grown up thing to do.

What the PISA scores tell you nothing about is the disparity in results across the population.

They do, though, if you read them, and in particular they speak about how rich kids do significantly better than poor kids, which is a disgrace all across the UK. They also show that Scotland's secondary education system has been declining steadily against European peers since 2008 - when the SNP took power from Labour in Scotland. Those two facts are not unconnected.

Between that year and 2012, it said, Scottish scores in those two subjects were well above the OECD average, but they have since declined, while reading performance has remained around the same level.

The figures also show a wide gap between the richest and poorest – measuring between 77 and 91 Pisa points – in all three subjects, similar to the average for the UK as a whole.

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/scottish-news/23927117.scottish-education-long-term-decline-since-snp-takeover/

So, is Starmer channeling Margaret Thatcher or Liz Trusswith his ‘Wealth creation is all that matters’ manifesto launch?

This bloke gets less credible every day.

It's clear his brain is programmed by things being shouted at him via focus groups and poor advice, and what he thinks the audience will like - "my dad is a tool maker."

Went down well last night.

I mean wealth creation FFS.  How he's convinced many people who have suffered the arse end of the miserable economic disaster that was Thatcher - somehow is NOW a good idea - is an embarrassment to moderate analysis.

This Labour government, unless they drop something that makes economic sense are totally doomed, probably quicker than we think.

Growth still flat - Labour will inherit this with total disregard to the economic mechanism that would correct it.

Also why is every day - a number new one priority day?

(I tell you why the campaign seems it's dragged on because you all inherently know the big win is not going to be that much of a push back.)

Manifesto is about to drop - probably just finished copying up the Tory version.

Not in any gardens, but I’ve seen quite a few big Conservative boards in farmer’s fields round here (South Cambs).

Yup  then moaning about the government they elected.

massive shy Tory syndrome going one I think

see this I don’t get. The mentality that you are so embarrassed by the party you support that you don’t want to let anyone know you support them. Yet you vote for them anyways. I guess not many people are prepared to stick their hands up and say they are a selfish, self centered twunt, even if they know themselves that they are..

or possibly it’s just because, in Scotland at least, they don’t want to wake up to find an abundance of frozen sausages in their lawn..

The mentality that you are so embarrassed by the party you support that you don’t want to let anyone know you support them. Yet you vote for them anyways.

It's not so much embarassment as a fear of being cancelled in your social circle.

And after the last 14 years it would definitely be embarrassing to openly admit that you think the tory party is the best choice.

Interestingly Binners there is no sign of an election campaign here at all.  Nothing.

We got our first leaflet yesterday (libdem).  She was 4th last time (redrawn boundaries but unlikely to help!). On the one hand - at least she's made an effort, but on the other I did wonder:

As a measure – the minimum rate for stuffing leaflets into letter boxes is about 100/hour. No need to engage with punters on the doorstep; just stuff and move on.

21 days until Independence Day; one hour per day x 21 days = 2100 leaflets per person.

IF you want to make a difference, get involved; it’s painless.

If someone posts 2100 leaflets what impact does that realistically have - ie. how many people receive a leaflet and it swings their indecisiveness to vote, or encourages them to turn up, or is part of 10 bits of messaging that add up to change their mind?   Bearing in mind that probably 1/3rd were always going to vote the way they do no matter what, 1/3rd have probably made up their mind already....  The one leaflet I have says nothing - its says the LibDems are the "only" people who will help Schools and NHS (but all the parties tell you they will do those things - not how; and those things are all devolved issues anyway).  Has anyone ever received a leaflet that made them say, "ah I didn't realise that, tell me more".

Alternatively, spend hours on STW and other media where your comments will have ZERO impact.

I'm not sure thats 100% true.  It was from here that I learned what Short money was.  Now that puts a different perspective on voting for a "no hope" candidate.  Which may at least partly explain why the opposition parties aren't so keen to sacrifice a no-hope seat to keep a worse enemy out.

The sad thing about that data is that the Tory  “easily” be voted out. Instead of that the Libdems/Greens will wake up to a Tory MP in their constituency.

If you were the LibDems in that seat you might well be thinking that Grant Shapps had a point yesterday!  If, along with everyone else in the country, you believe SKS is the next PM then why would a LibDem want to make their party's voice on the opposition bench more dilute?  Its probably also wrong to assume that given a choice between Tory/Labour/Reform that all those who might vote LibDem or Green normally would chose to cast their vote with labour just because the party said it was the least worst.  Play that card wrong and you might get a Reform candidate!

Kramer
Free Member
A damning indictment of the consequences of a staggeringly cynical Conservative policy decision in 2010

A good but torrid read, man we are buggered.

If nothing else the Tories need to be removed at all costs and never trusted again.

What's the alternative to growth?

The cost of borrowing has gone up massively, so that's not the option that it was 15 years ago.