Well listening to Farage, as predicted, he’s gone full Enoch Powell. Or maybe Tommy Robinson. He’s spouting out and out racist rabble-rousing
I expect the Tory party will now willingly follow him yet further right
???????
A quick Google turned up three MPs urging people to vote Tory. There may have been more.
Your private pension will be taxed
And so it should be, like all income over the threashold whether earned or unearned. I would argue it should be taxed more than earned income because there is no cost to earning it.
Pensioners get taxed too little IMO (I'm a pensioner in one country and soon to be in another). Those who are taxed too hard are the young workers who have no savings, no property, pay a fortune in transport to get to work... .
I would argue it should be taxed more than earned income because there is no cost to earning it.
?? Apart from the money I put into my private pension, agreed it should be taxed especially as it didn't get taxed at time of input but extra because I didn't pay for it is completely bonkers.
Pensioners do have other costs that workers don't have though so pitting one group against another is not a good idea.
"Pensioners do have other costs that workers don’t have though so pitting one group against another is not a good idea."
such as? I'll be a pensioner in a couple of years, and I'd hate to see any unexpected costs coming my way...
I am sick of the amount of age related predudice and sterotyping on this thread.
I am a "boomer", and seem to be responsible for all the problems of society. I don't think terms such as boomer, milenials, mamil, etc are helpful terms and only sterotype people.
For the record I helped with minor parts of the first Rock against Racism, took part in demos and other oppostion to the NF,BNP and other racist scum, Have supported other groups of workers by picketing etc.
I voted against Brexit.
I have never voted Tory ever and would saw my own head off before I did.
I will probably vote labour to make sure we keep the Tory scum out but will have top bite my tongue voting for a party led by Starmer.
That's great Bruce but really it's a bit silly to be so oversensitive about generalisations that are obviously meant as statistically relevant summaries rather than a precise description of every single person in that group. It's just pointless pedantry and derailing to insist on adding "not every ..." to every single statement.
Ok, "not every single statement". But a lot of them 🙂
I'm retired myself but have no qualms about blaming retirees for a large part of the country's problems. They (we!) voted for brexit, they voted tory, time after time over the last 14 years. Not me, but most of this group.
"Starmer: I’m a socialist and progressive who will always put country first"
https://twitter.com/GdnPolitics/status/1795152888018370959?t=Y4BWSdYMCocskZOrT7HDjg&s=19
Man sure knows how to just say anything at all without any remotely cohesive meaning.
Add me to the list that gets bored with the constant ageist stereotyping on here. Dress it up how you like, but it's exactly the kind of divisive othering the right wing popularists you would claim to despise revel in. Even if the target group to be othered is different from theirs, the tactic is straight out of their playbook and deserves imo, equal contempt.
That’s great Bruce but really it’s a bit silly to be so oversensitive about generalisations that are obviously meant as statistically relevant summaries rather than a precise description of every single person in that group. It’s just pointless pedantry and derailing to insist on adding “not every …” to every single statement.
I think words are important - if you're using a catch-all term like "boomer", you're including everyone who falls within that definition whether they're guilty of what you accuse them or not. It's just another form of bigotry.
Hopefully we have done the boomer thing to death and they now see the error of their ways.
Following up on Farages' speech, he is 100% aiming at the tories now. Even suggesting that why bother voting for them as it is a lost cause.
I'm a boomer too, born 60. I left school into the Winter of discontent, graduated into 3 million unemployed, worked on temporary contracts for the first five years of my "career" then moved abroad.
As a boomer I recognised how my generation, especially those a few years older did an exceptional job of accumulating wealth which they are now and always have been very reluctant to share. I'm all right Jack prevails even to the detriment of their own kids. I hope I've learned from the mistakes of those a little older than me and been much more supportive of my son in both time and money because like me he's entering active life at a time the odds are stacked against him but with less help from the state than I got, and that's in a country the Americans call "socialist land" in a derisory tone.
As a pensioner, I resent the stereotypers, reductionists, centrists and reactionaries you find amongst the young, all of them!
Ffs we did all this with "not all men", get over it. We're not talking about YOU, stop making it about YOU.
Anyway, I see Farage managed to get a rise out a BBC presenter, disappointed to find out she only said
Nigel Farage with his, erm, customary inflammatory language there at a Reform UK press conference.
Rather than
Nigek Farage with his usual racist contbaggery, how about invoking the white cliffs of Dover and taking a long walk off of them?
if you’re using a catch-all term like “boomer”
Boomer was just a term for people born in a certain period like millennial or Gen-Z. It had no negative connotations for a long time. The voting record of boomers as a group is what has caused it to have negative connotations and therefore to be seen as an insult.
Like it or not, we all get lumped into groups. That's literally what political parties are doing. They don't care about the views of you as an individual. They only care about you as a member of a voting group.
That's why it's so difficult to not talk about groups when you talk about politics. It's baked into the concept.
You can scream, 'I'm not a number, I'm a free man!' all you like but in terms of politics I can 100% guarantee focus groups and political parties have assigned you a number and are targeting you based on that number, whether it applies to you as an individual or not.
Interestingly, this is the first election in 50 years where the boomers aren't the largest voting bloc.
Not while a huge mass of rancid jingoistic pensioners continues to vote tory there isn’t.
They are not a "huge mass". They are not even a majority. They have a disproportionate hold on Tory policy, which is being exposed and ridiculed now, but again, if all you can do is call people names because you disagree with their unpleasant views, that says as much about you as it does about them.
You're setting up to play your part in the next intergenerational battle, not working constructively to reduce division and inequality.
They are not even a majority.
Really?
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/26925-how-britain-voted-2019-general-election
Thanks Bruce.
This arbitrary division into named generations is so annoying. I am so close to fitting an era which has not got a name. There is also a lack of recognition that many of us coming on to the jobs market in the early 1980s may have had something of an "experience". All lives are different and to assume you are a T*** based on DoB is very offensive.
Finally for those older than myself - remember Johnson: take it on the chin, bodies pile up, they have had their lives. This is a group that did not just suffer silly collective names from the 1950s - they were all but culled when the Covid opportunity came round. Our anomalous death rates were not accidental.
All lives are different and to assume you are a T*** based on DoB is very offensive.
No one is doing that.
Once again, it's very difficult (or impossible) to discuss politics without breaking people into voter groups.
Lighten up S K, we weren't all being entirely serious.
People's consciousness can change. It's probably more useful to define people by class in relation to the means of production, buyers and sellers of labour power. That cuts across ages, ethnic groups, regions etc.
It’s probably more useful to define people by class
Maybe once. But when a lot of people doing middle class jobs think they’re working class (presumably because they have a job) it’s less helpful.
It’s probably more useful to define people by class in relation to the means of production, buyers and sellers of labour power. That cuts across ages, ethnic groups, regions etc.
The trouble there is at the last election there wasn't much difference across this classification:
Like it or not, age is the single most reliable indicator* of the way you are likely to vote (again, not you as an individual). Not talking about age is like trying to discuss politics in the 70s without talking about what people did for a living.
*with the possible exception of education level
such as? I’ll be a pensioner in a couple of years, and I’d hate to see any unexpected costs coming my way…
Higher tax if educator gets his way 🤣
As an up and coming pensioner have you factored in having the heating on all day if you can't get out, more dentistry & opticians costs, care costs, travel insurance, travel costs once you are no longer able to cycle or drive - just a few I can think of off the top of my head & yes there are reductions in costs in many areas too but suggesting it's a one way street & old age is a bed of cheaper roses is not the full picture.
I wasn’t far off with Farage. He hasn’t yet advocated carpet bombing the French coast but he has said the Royal Marines should be deployed to intercept and turn back boats
Righto Nige. That’s not remotely mental.
But the senile, racist pensioners of Eastbourne now want that to happen, not whatever Rishi is offering
Can't use the term pensioners now - that's ageist
If she buys say a cheaper £400K property, or even rent somewhere for rest of her life (she is over 80) then she is very well off isn’t she.
Yeah, absolutely, but it requires someone to realise the paper/nominal value of their home by selling it instead of living in it! As long as someone just wants to carry on living in their home, or even if they just want to sell it and buy something similar, then it's fair for them not to feel like they're any "richer" day to day, because they're not. We all need to live somewhere.
Obviously it's better than not to have a bunch of unearned wealth in the equity of the house in which you live - but you can only really "cash it in" once, by moving to live somewhere smaller or moving to live somewhere cheaper or not needing to live anywhere any more...because you're dead.
Would people prefer it if we used the generation's full name?
Babyboomers - rather than just Boomers? Or we could call them Babies? but that might get confusing
You can access home equity via an equity release mortgage, no need to move out your home.
I think it’s deliberate but not for the reasons stated.
There’s nothing left
You might be right. You need Labour back in to rebuild a little bit of the state so you can come back in and strip it out later. The only problem is that I'm not sure Labour are going to do much rebuilding. It seems more like they're going with 'we won't change anything at all' rather than 'we will rebuild', so will there be anything to asset strip when the Tories get back in?
Also I'm very, very wary about the glee in relation to the Tories haemorrhaging votes to Reform. A sharp swing rightwards should be a cause for real alarm, not seen as 'ah, a return to sensible politics, I can't wait for the calm and normal times that are surely ahead'.
As an up and coming pensioner have you factored in having the heating on all day if you can’t get out, more dentistry & opticians costs, care costs, travel insurance, travel costs once you are no longer able to cycle or drive – just a few I can think of off the top of my head & yes there are reductions in costs in many areas too but suggesting it’s a one way street & old age is a bed of cheaper roses is not the full picture.
Just use your free bus pass to get you down to the local ‘spoons.
Just £1.58 will buy you a refillable cup for hot drinks. Spend all day there. Take your laptop for STW browsing . You can easily get 10,000 steps in by simply going to the toilet a few times
The only problem is that I’m not sure Labour are going to do much rebuilding. It seems more like they’re going with ‘we won’t change anything at all’ rather than ‘we will rebuild’
Labour at the moment seem to be going with "marginally less ****y than Tories" rather than anything actually aspirational.
They've already said they'll push that Tory-led Dangerous Cycling bill through in the next parliamentary term.
Way to go Labour, focus on the big issues of the day there.
The thing about stereotypes is that they work. Sure there are exceptions to prove the rule but as a boomer I recognise the traits of my own cohort in those around me . Brexit polling was some of the most interesting I've seen because it broke down voters into groups based on age and declared political leaning. The geography of the final results gave us the rest. The people I know who voted Brexit conform to all of the mainly negative traits attributed to the stereotypical Brexiteer. The Remainers didn't conform to that stereotype.
I had a chat with my middle-aged, Dutch, oil industry neighbour today. As we talked he ticked all the boxes you'd expect a middle-aged, Dutch, oil industry worker to tick. The assumptions I'd made meant I made no major faux pas and we got along fine even though we're at oppposite ends of the political spectrum. He no doubt made assumtions about me too, however he was surprised to find someone with a British background doesn't drink beer or anything alcoholic.
Weighing people up quickly and accurately is useful skill, all the stereotypes you have in your head help. Master them well and you're more likely to suceed, and less likely to get ripped off or punched in the face.
I think a better term for those born 59-65 would be "Thatcher victims".
The thing about stereotypes is that they work.
Weighing people up quickly and accurately is useful skill, all the stereotypes you have in your head help. Master them well and you’re more likely to suceed
Does that apply to stereotypes based on race/ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, as well as those based on age and nationality?
Ffs we did all this with “not all men”, get over it. We’re not talking about YOU, stop making it about YOU.
I didn't realise you were the spokesperson for others here.
Yeah, absolutely, but it requires someone to realise the paper/nominal value of their home by selling it instead of living in it! As long as someone just wants to carry on living in their home, or even if they just want to sell it and buy something similar, then it’s fair for them not to feel like they’re any “richer” day to day, because they’re not. We all need to live somewhere.
You're looking at it form the perspective of someone who has the resultant expensive house. Look at it from everyone else coming through below you point of view. They have all the same outgoings, expenses and earning potential as you, AND they have to pay a £400k mortgage just to be in the same position.
I had to explain to my grandparents why them saving up for 18months in the 60's to buy a house isn't comparable to me having to sign upto a 28 year mortgage and put aside £3k a month to cover it and bills and that was part of the reason why I wasn't really considering having kids.
Gran on the other side gets in through 😂 she quipped that thanks to rapid inflation her last few mortgage payments were the equivalent to about 50p a month.
Never mind the polling, here’s the odds after the first week of campaigning
How far down that list is a Con/Reform coalition?
You've just listed them, you tell me if you apply them in that way, blokeupthe road. Some charateristics trump others. Nationality for example trumps all of those to such an extent that they're irrelevant IMO. Nationality tells you about the education system someone has been through, the political sytem they've familiar with, very often the religious codes they're likely to follow. Jobs trump all those too. Even the car you drive tells me so much more than race/ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation that they just aren't worth considering. The driver of Zoé is less likely to drive like a dick that an BMW Xsomething driver and far less likely to refuse me priority as a cyclist, without knowing their gender, colour or whatever, they chose to drive BMW Xsomething, my neighbours father owns an Xsomething - Madame Edukator realisied it was his and muttered "figures". So race/ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation are useless sterotyping tools unless you're racist, homophobic or whatever in which case you'll probably be really crap at evaluating people.
You’ve just listed them, you tell me if you apply them in that way, blokeupthe road.
I'm not the one defending stereotyping as a useful tool to evaluate others or claiming that it's a useful life skill. You did that, without specifying which ones you were referring to which is why I asked. So just the ones which support your own prejudices then?
You’ve just listed them, you tell me if you apply them in that way, blokeupthe road. Some charateristics trump others. Nationality for example trumps all of those to such an extent that they’re irrelevant IMO. Nationality tells you about the education system someone has been through, the political sytem they’ve familiar with, very often the religious codes they’re likely to follow. Jobs trump all those too. Even the car you drive tells me so much more than race/ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation that they just aren’t worth considering. The driver of Zoé is less likely to drive like a dick that an BMW Xsomething driver and far less likely to refuse me priority as a cyclist, without knowing their gender, colour or whatever, they chose to drive BMW Xsomething, my neighbours father owns an Xsomething – Madame Edukator realisied it was his and muttered “figures”. So race/ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation are useless sterotyping tools unless you’re racist, homophobic or whatever in which case you’ll probably be really crap at evaluating people.
The word you were looking for was "yes".
Craig Murray:
I just heard Rachel Reeves launch Labour's economic policy at Rolls Royce. Not one single word that Thatcher would not have said. And a great many words that Thatcher did say. Specifically the repeated spurious comparison between family finances and state finances.
Can I suggest a new thread on the benefits of stereotyping?
