All this talk of socialist utopias and Trotskyist Soviet blocs (Stalin's agent did murder Trotsky btw) is just word salads and probably best ignored. It is fascinating how Starmerites spew more bile at socialists whilst welcoming Tories into the LP.
susepic
Full Member
I have to say that I am making a mental list of people that I’d love to meet for a beer at some point (and some less so)
Even in political threads, which are noted for their... passion(!?😁)it's a good bunch on here in truth. I really meant it earlier when I mentioned that pretty much every person that contributes to the thread (there is the occasional visiting anomaly!) are genuine and passionate about wanting a better country. We just differ on how we think it should be done or even what "better" is!😁
I'm really just saying that we have far, far more in common than it appears sometimes. Generally, I'm more concerned by people (irl) that seem to have no political opinion at all and are content to be a butterfly in the storm. It's a less stressful life I'm sure but how can you not be political these days? It's almost a moral duty. Lol
I had a conversation with my lad months back, he has two young children now. He's never been into politics and I don't like lecturing him as he's a good lad and very much his own man. That said we got chatting about the GE and I said to him something along the lines of the fact that everything is politics even if it doesn't seem so:
His kids' schooling quality in the years to come? Politics.
That 12 hour wait he now has as a parent in A&E? Politics.
Stuck in the rental trap and worried about no fault evictions? Politics.
Anyway, he and his fiancée are now registered to vote. Id never tell him who to vote for of course, though I'm fairly sure his world view is similar to mine.
Please will someone go and set up a squatters encampment on Farage's lawn. They can then suggest he negotiates away half his land to them...FFS.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/26/farage-urges-zelenskiy-to-seek-ukraine-peace-deal-with-russia
Can I just check - this is suggesting Lib Dem as opposition?
Wow.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html
matt_outandabout
Full Member
Can I just check – this is suggesting Lib Dem as opposition?
Wow.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html/blockquote >
It's possible but depends upon which column turns out to be the more accurate. Large margin of error.
At my 'NHS' Dentist that I've been going to for 50 years - that was recently taken over, they wouldn't offer me a scale and polish under NHS rules - as not clinical.
But I could have had a private one in the same session for 150 apparently.
Markets work so well for us.
But let's not 'spook' the money men (sloshers of public money) with better invested services for its people.
I also see that the Neoliberal shrill special Paul Johnson at the Institute For Shit has pointed his finger at Labour's imaginary financial black-hole.
Doesn't work like that Paul.
But we know why you want to pretend it does - you want to saddle Labour with limited choices, to the detriment of us all.
Which is clearly why investment has fallen off a cliff since brexit.
Can I just check, are you talking about foreign direct investment?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyxx742dgv1o.amp [ Why Waveney Valley is a key election battleground ] https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2024-06-20/waveney-valley-the-green-target-thats-breaking-new-ground [ Why the new Waveney Valley constituency is a top Green target ]
matt_outandabout
Full Member
Please will someone go and set up a squatters encampment on Farage’s lawn. They can then suggest he negotiates away half his land to them…FFS.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/26/farage-urges-zelenskiy-to-seek-ukraine-peace-deal-with-russia/blockquote >
It's pretty incredible that some of his supporters see him as the reincarnation of Churchill, when Churchill would have be appalled at his stance on Ukraine.
Whilst I have been waiting for a steer on how to vote out Cruella in my constituency, that Electoral Calculus polling suggests she will lose ~ to Reform!
How anyone can think she’s not right wing enough for me….
vd
Full Member
Whilst I have been waiting for a steer on how to vote out Cruella in my constituency, that Electoral Calculus polling suggests she will lose ~ to Reform!How anyone can think she’s not right wing enough for me….
That also put you in a moral quandary! ☹️
With one exception only, I have always voted anti-Tory. I resisted the urge to tactical vote when living in Kent, because I thought the Tory was decent, and the Liberal was Bill Pitt, the idiot who won a Croydon by election.
That ‘decent’ Tory ended up serving at Her Majesty’s Pleasure- Jonathan Aitken- although I understand he’s now a prison chaplain and considered a changed man, so maybe I understood him better than he did….?
I think I’d rather take my chance and hope 3rd place Labour squeeze the Libdem vote.
They are offering more of the same with a bit of compassion
That'll do as a starter for ten. Who else do you think can put together a competent government?
The UK is the worlds 6th largest economy
So why is it so shit? Maybe because GDP per capita is about 30th. Or because our incompetent government hasn't put the money to use where it should be.
I'm very lucky. Retired, homeowner, out in the leafy suburbs, can afford to put decent food on the table. Many, far too many, are struggling to make ends meet. That to me is not a good indicator of a civilised nation. High GDP or not.
Plug this Electoral Calculus figures into the FT seat predictor and you get this:
...and that's 6 seats for Reform.
Not only is there a very large spread of percentages in the polls but also in seats resulting from those percentages.
FT's own seat prediction is
matt_outandabout
Full Member
Can I just check – this is suggesting Lib Dem as opposition?
Wow.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.htmlIt’s possible but depends upon which column turns out to be the more accurate. Large margin of error.
There's an interesting thread on twitter about Tory poll numbers, basically sub 25% the collapse in seat numbers accelerates, and a small percentage shift will have a disproportionate change in seats. The same is true for other parties in the opposite direction, hence the lib dem 2nd place projection in some polls. In other words, small change equal big effect at the sub 25% vote share. FPTP weirdness!
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1805937821397524747?t=KlpMN3jpzbYcYmCqhCnDLg&s=19
I’m totally lost, politically homeless with what is on offer. I cannot believe that these are considered the political elite of this country. I still have no idea who to vote for.
Labour - Pretending not to be socialists, but will reveal their true colours and will come for everything they can from you. Very little business acumen and most of the leadership team come from public sector careers so don’t understand how money, business and finance works. Look at the vast majority of Labour run local councils (which are one step away from bankruptcy) then imagine that incompetence on a national level. Frightening. I cannot imagine anyone on the world stage taking Angela Rayner and Kier Starker seriously. Can you imagine him actually standing up to anyone? I also have a fear that they will bankrupt the country in the name of net zero.
Tory - Well it hasn’t been great has it. Cameron took us out of the EU, taxes are absurdly high whilst simultaneously providing crap public services. HS2 would have been great for the North, instead it goes to Birmingham and the North are left with laughable transport. Boris, Liz, Rishi, lies, scandal, incompetence etc etc. They do need to go.
Reform - the low tax pledge is appealing as a business owner. Farage though - Brexit and then promptly resigned. They seem to be listening to peoples concerns about ILLEGAL immigration. They're manifesto doesn't stack up at all.
Greens - mean well, but clueless. A wasted vote.
Lib Dems - Are they still going?
I consider myself to be centre right and a firm believer in traditional conservative values. Completely lost as to who gets my vote as I don’t believe any of the offerings will be good for the country. Tragic really.
Several problems here. Firstly as a self described Blairite its rather easy for you to take this line considering what is being offered is new labour mk2. So no need to adjust your own dogma which leads on to the second problem
Is it dogma or pragmatism tho...show me a government that has objectively made more difference for the underprivileged, for kids, for the NHS etc. Blair made a difference.
You can diss me for that if want, but show me a real alternative on July 4....
My grandparents were miners in the valleys, and made a difference by clubbing together for libraries and healthcare. Aneurin Bevan built on that thinking.
I bought my copy of Das Kapital from the party bookshop on Alexanderplatz in East Berlin in 1986. How did that work out for the Eastern Europeans? Fenced in cos the dogma was flawed.
So dream on that you want a different way of doing things....none of us will get the perfect outcome on July 5, but I know which imperfect outcome I'd like when compared to the Tory alternative.
As poopscoop said up thread, we're probably all broadly on the same side (SRAM vs Hope vs Shimano debates aside), so let's try and work towards the best outcome for the country on July 5. I'm not sure how I'd cope with a tory MP.
Pretending not to be socialists, but will reveal their true colours and will come for everything they can from you.
You what? Have you been listening to anything that's been going on?
Look at the vast majority of Labour run local councils (which are one step away from bankruptcy) then imagine that incompetence on a national level. Frightening.
Ok so 1) councils have nothing to do with the parliamentary party. They're different people, doing different things, run by different people and 2) The reason councils are going bankrupt is because the central Tory government isn't giving them enough money (not all council's money comes from council tax).
I also have a fear that they will bankrupt the country in the name of net zero.
Net Zero means a shitload of investment is needed in alternative technologies. A competent government would attempt to make sure that we are making the stuff that the world needs to reach it - like the USA is doing. It also means loads of solar and wind power which conveniently is sourced here in the UK not in the Middle East or Russia.
Look at the vast majority of Labour run local councils (which are one step away from bankruptcy)
Tory, labour and no doubt councils of other persuasions are on the verge of bankruptcy.
Our Labour council is almost bankrupt... just as it was when It was Tory led last year. It's a central funding issue, it's well documented and directly resulting from Tory austerity.
airvent
Free Member
Are there people shouting in the background of this debate?
Yes, a demo outside but I don't know who?
Lib Dems – Are they still going?
Given that they seem to be having their best election campaign in years, yes. But with limited party resource and some areas where there's not much presence, unless you're in a target seat you might not have noticed.
Very little business acumen and most of the leadership team come from public sector careers so don’t understand how money, business and finance works
Starnmer - barrister and director of public prosecutions
Reeves - worked for the BoE and HBoS
Lammy - barrister and attorney in the US
Thats the 3 top jobs in government covered
Can I just point out that both candidates answered a question about this country being an island and neither mentioned the fact that the UK is not an island, and we have a long unguarded border with Ireland...?
Pro Palestinian apparently.
Good.
Sunak is going to throw a disc in his neck if he keeps on doing the odd Delboy head butting motion.😁
show me a government that has objectively made more difference for the underprivileged, for kids, for the NHS etc. Blair made a difference
You're not allowed to point out the bleeding obvious.
What you have to do is shout IRAQ!!! then soil your petticoats in righteous outrage
… and apparently that immediately cancels out all of that progress, then you go misty-eyed about Jeremy Corbyn and enter the insane tinfoil-helmeted hinterland where 2 electoral defeats are miles better than 3 electoral victories because…. erm… I don’t know… idealogical purity or some other bollocks that trumps everything if you live in Islington
Welcome to their petition-signing, placard-waving, cloud-cuckoo-land of ‘The Left’
Get anything done? Actually take on the responsibility of government? Of course not! Are you mad?
We’re all planning a protest March about Palestine, then we can post it on Instagram and see how many likes we get
EU folk are not going to come here without freedom of movement so thats not going to happen either
People have to want to come here first.
There is absolutely no problem with attracting people to come to the UK after Brexit. Immigration (legal and illegal) has grown massively since B Day. If you specifically want EU citizens rather than non-EU citizens...why?
I understand he’s now a prison chaplain and considered a changed man
Jonathan Aitken's spots didn't change.
Look at the vast majority of Labour run local councils (which are one step away from bankruptcy)
Pretty much every council in the country is on the edge of the same precipice, regardless of the party in control, regardless of the well-reported more generous central funding for Tory-led councils than Labour ones.
Ooooowwwwww! Meeeooowwww!
"I'm sure BBC verify will put that quote on their website!"
I'm watching it with my mum at the moment, she's late 60's, just back from a hike up the Merrick and a fit, feisty highlander.
According to her she'd grab Sunak by the ** and * squeeze till he **** bursts
And she doesn't like nor trust Starmer one bit.....plus a few other choice words for them both so far.
We’re all planning a protest March about Palestine, then we can post it on Instagram and see how many likes we get
Your posts are rather patronising,
Nearly one in 10 English councils expect to go bust in next year, survey finds.
I worry for Sunak.
