No one is going to invest in a UK outside the EU.
That’s a final destination and will take decades
Right now what this country needs (is crying out for!) is the political stability that has been totally absent for the last 5-8 years while the idealogical headbangers have been at the wheel
Nobody is going to invest in a country with a party in charge that gave Liz Truss the keys to the economy
Once the grown ups are back in charge things will change
No one is going to invest in a UK outside the EU.
Of course they will. Centre of the financial planet, rule of law, as good an economy a the rest of the EU currently, speak English, highly educated workforce, good labour laws , good transport links, there's every reason to invest here.
Which is clearly why investment has fallen off a cliff since brexit. Good labour laws? Only if you are a rapacious employer. Our workers protections are rubbish compared to the EU. That was our main attractor for inward investment. In the EU but poor worker protections.
We are not the centre of the financial planet either
The statements I’ve seen from Reeves explicitly say that they’ll only burrow to invest. In fact that’s been her routine line for quite some time now. Same as Gordon Brown’s rules
Yes - so no extra money for NHS or Education budgets then.
In the short term no. There's no free money, and I fully expect Labour to start to say when they get into power "It's much worse than we expected"
But, I expect a Labour government to make better financial decisions about borrowing and spending on things like the NHS and education that the Tories will over the life time of a parliament and beyond. That's the bargain we're making when we vote for them isn't it? I trust them more than I trust the Tories, that's all I can do.
We are not the centre of the financial planet either
I'd bet money that you'd be able to find a study that shows London isn't, and I'd be able to find one that shows t still is. Regardless of whether it's absolute either way, it's still responsible for a huge section of our economic activity.
I do not think some of you realise how much of a right wing party labour has become.
Which is clearly why investment has fallen off a cliff since brexit.
The main reason is because since Brexit, but particularly since 2019, we’ve been governed by incompetent, ideologically rabid, financially illiterate right-wing, nationalist loons!
… admittedly you’re then into chicken and egg territory
Right - so no growth outside the EU, no investment in education or the NHS, ie continueing austerity which as we know is counter productive
I do not trust the current labour front bench an inch because they keep on lying as many of you have admitted. Stsarmer is a technocrat and a weather vane - his main issue is the right wing ( not centerist) cabal he has surrounded himself with. Cooper is "anything for a quid". Streeting is a paid for shill for private healthcare, Reeves is a right wing banker following right wing orthodoxy economically,
I do not think some of you realise how much of a right wing party labour has become.
Form the view from your end of the political spectrum maybe, but there are still huge swathes of the population that either 1. Couldn't tell you if they're left or right wing, or what that actually means or 2. Think the Labour party is run by a Trotskyist cabal hell bent on re-establishing the Soviet block on UK soil.
Given that both parties are talking up social housing, and renationalising the rail and utilities I don't think the Overton window has shifted quite as much as you think it has.
No binners – the main reason is that outside the EU we are not attractive to inward investment.
It's probably best not to try to present what you think as fact.
£2.6 Trillion of outside investment, making it one of the most attractive investment countries
Really? You really think that? Reeves, Streeting and others have been taking bribes from the financial services industry to create policies good for them ie no return to the cap on bankers bonuses etc etc. Reeves is following right wing economics, Streeting wants to privitise the NHS.
Streeting wants to privitise the NHS.
We've had this discussion before and you couldn't find any evidence that this is true the last time either.
Brexit has chilling effect on UK inward investment
https://www.ft.com/content/bdc9f940-bb92-11e9-b350-db00d509634e
Brexit hit UK investment by £29bn, says Bank of England policymaker
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64623488
And a zillion other pages
Nickc - is that link not about management of investment funds rather than actual investment in the UK?
Foreign investment into UK falls to lowest level in six years
Analysts blame Brexit for further decline in the number of projects
https://www.ft.com/content/6416a20a-9805-11e9-8cfb-30c211dcd229
We’ve had this discussion before and you couldn’t find any evidence that this is true the last time either.
He has said it! Multiple times. He is in the pay of private healthcare companies
Wes Streeting has warned that the NHS will get no extra funding from Labour without “major surgery” or reform, including more use of the private sector.
The shadow health secretary insisted he would not be put off by “middle-class lefties” who cry “betrayal” over using the private sector to bring down waiting lists – adding he was “up for the fight” with NHS unions.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/wes-streeting-nhs-labour-private-sector-b2524953.html
Labour will force NHS to use private sector, Wes Streeting says
I don't think Rachel Reeves is a banker in the same way that Sunak is. She turned down Goldman Sachs, and has worked in the BoE. She hasn't made sh1t loads betting against the UK like Sunak. You kind of need some economic competence to avoid the Truss scenarios, and she seems to be quite careful not to spook the markets.
Someone up thread talked about an audit once you get your feet under the desk - I'm sure there will be horrors in that audit, but I also hope that there will be a way forward for them to say that they will have to do things like the EU to fill the hole the Tories made.
It's not nice at the moment, and you can give me a hard time in 6 - 12 months time - but I really hope that the message and the direction of travel will change once they are in govt.
Cos hope is the only thing keeping us afloat at the moment. I'm voting LD cos they will likely unseat the tory (did it in Lewes in 97 too) but I'm really a Blairite. You can flame me for that, but i like to look at the charts of where we were in 2010 vs where we are now and think it wasn't so bad, and hope that Starmer might find some of that within his administration
Your occasional reminder that most high street NHS services that most people use on a routine basis; The GP, the dentist, the chemist, the audiologist the optician etc etc are run as for-profit organisations (private healthcare) most of them are partnerships, or sole traders without whom the NHS doesn't function. In fact from my seat in GP world the bit that needs the most urgent reform, the bit that mostly doesn't work, is the bit that's publicly owned.
In fact I'd go further and say that the bit that does most of the heavy lifting when it comes to the impact we have on the public's healthcare is the bit that currently attracts less funding, it's about time the it was recognised that in bang for buck terms we'd get a better outcome shifting a good percentage of the funding to GPs and dentists.
The thing is that increased use of the private sector is likely to push costs in the NHS up too, at least if the Australian experience is anything to go by, and when Streeting says 'middle class lefties' I think what he means is 'people with a working knowledge of how healthcare staffing works in the UK'.
To sort that needs rejoining the EU. Its the only way. No one is going to invest in a UK outside the EU.
Oh, TJ - you've got to stop spouting nonsense. It's not the only way. It's not even required. You're taking about investment in the form of manufacturing goods for export, which, quite rightly is a way to increase economic output and was highly beneficial to us when in the EU, but it's not the only way.
The UK is the worlds 6th largest economy, has one of the worlds top5 innovation ecosystems, has the worlds 3rd (maybe 4th) best collection of education and research environments, leads the world on impactful science research (SCIE), has some of the lowest wages and lowest taxes in countries with comparable research profiles (why were were an investment target for manufacturing when in the EU). We also have access to the EU research network again and have significant partnerships with Japan, Korea, India (the worlds fastest growing economy) and the US for R&I. Could we be better? Sure, but to say the UK can't attract research and subsequent private investment is utter rubbish. Now, and despite your best efforts to keep a Conservative government, we'll hopefully have less turmoil, more governance, more planning and action, stable policies and thus attract even more investment. We're also easy to engage with (when not being xenophobic) and relatively open.
Yours, a fervent Remainer.
susepic
Full Member
Cooper is “anything for a quid”This Yvette Cooper? I think she’s one of the best things about Labour TJ.
Just watched all of that, even on a purely technical level alone, that's a hugely impressive public speaking performance.
So many opinions; so few facts.
Are you new here?
I have to say that I am making a mental list of people that I'd love to meet for a beer at some point (and some less so)
Let's put our dogmas aside people and vote the Tory/Reform/UKIP fokkers into oblivion.
Together we can make the UK a better place when they have been shown the door.
tjagainFull Member
Foreign investment into UK falls to lowest level in six years
Analysts blame Brexit for further decline in the number of projects
https://www.ft.com/content/6416a20a-9805-11e9-8cfb-30c211dcd229/blockquote >
March - 2019! There's almost no reliable data since then as 2020-2022 was a pandemic and since then the Conservatives have been playing musical chairs with the PM. BUT, the UK's % of European FDI was 15% in 2022, 17.3% in 2023 and is predicted to be 19%+ in 2024. Even outside the EU, we're still taking in almost 20% of total FDI that comes into the Europe!
has some of the lowest wages and lowest taxes in countries
That's really not great for UK workers or attracting qualified foreign talent. Taxes (preferably based on wealth and ability to pay) pay for public services.
It's been very clear that Ireland and other EU countries have greatly benefitted from inward investment that would have almost certainly gone to the UK but for Brexit, lowest wages or not.
The London Labour view
https://www.london.gov.uk/new-report-reveals-uk-economy-almost-ps140billion-smaller-because-brexit
The Tory government view
You can't dress that up as success even if you're a Tory.
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Christ, the endless joyless and spirit-crushingly tedious pessimism and defeatism of the usual suspects is just depressing
After 14 years of this shit you still want your socialist utopia/moon on a ****ing stick that this country will never ever vote for
Anyway… I see this thread has once again, somewhat predictably, descended into ‘that’ thread 🙄
Maybe Starmer is just a bit **** though?
Cooper - totally corrupt, will do anything for a quid. her and Balls became rich off fiddling expenses. She was one of the worst. Go look up her record. She will take money from anywhere and anyone if it lines her pockets
Like Streeting she is in it for riches not for the good of the country. a vile woman and along with Streeting one of the reasons I will find it very hard to vote labour. two bought and paid for poiliticians
Christ, the endless joyless and spirit-crushingly tedious pessimism and defeatism of the usual suspects is just depressing
After 14 years of this shit you still want your socialist utopia/moon on a ****ing stick that this country will never ever vote for
You're on my beer list Binners (you have the right to refuse)
Binners - or conversely I find it depressing how many of you think this current labour party are anything but tory lite and who think their policies will make the UK better when they have ruled out everything needed to improve the lot of the country. That and the corruption. "we are more competent and less corrupt tories" is not really something to inspire
Just to correct a misunderstanding, I think you'll find Trotskyists Max Schachtman in the US and Tony Cliff in the UK defined Russia as 'bureaucratic state capitalist'. They would hardly want to create a Soviet bloc over here.
or conversely I find it depressing how many of you think this current labour party are anything but tory lite and who think their policies will make the UK better when they have ruled out everything needed to improve the lot of the country.
But TJ - there is no focking alternative - unless you're voting SNP - no one standing in Sussex last time i looked. And I'm voting LD. But who else are you voting for - wake the F up.
suspic - its fortunate my constituency makes zero difference to a labour or tory government as its only going to return Labour of SNP. If I was in a labour / tory marginal I would have a difficult decision but I would find it6 very hard to vote for a centre right brexiteer pro austerity party which is what labour are particularly with Streeting as health secretary when he is only interested in doing the bidding of his paymasters - private healthcare companies. What he is proposing "reform and privitisation" will make the NHS worse not better
it’s about time the it was recognised that in bang for buck terms we’d get a better outcome shifting a good percentage of the funding to GPs and dentists.
Hallelujah!
how many of you think this current labour party are anything but tory lite
Would you rather have Tory lite or hardcore rightwing Tory with massive incompetence? Those are your choices.
its fortunate my constituency makes zero difference to a labour or tory government as its only going to return Labour of SNP.
So why generalise. Lots of us on here are having to make tough choices, and know we can't have what we'd really really want, but voting in the here and now for things that are likely to be better than rolling over for some dogma and letting tories have another go.....
suspic – its fortunate my constituency makes zero difference to a labour or tory government as its only going to return Labour of SNP
A luxury most of us don’t have. It’s Labour or Tory here. Full stop. Nobody else in it. The Tory majority in 2019 was 100 votes, so it’s as tight as it gets here and every vote counts
Enjoy your self-indulgence
Ah @binners has broken out his signpost meme. I want to be reasonably diplomatic in saying this, as I really enjoy most of your posts. But that meme, and your general tone on the politics threads are unbelievably arrogant. You're not the thread police, your opinion is no more valid than any other, so wind your neck in a bit eh!
but voting in the here and now for things that are likely to be better than rolling over for some dogma and letting tories have another go…..
Several problems here. Firstly as a self described Blairite its rather easy for you to take this line considering what is being offered is new labour mk2. So no need to adjust your own dogma which leads on to the second problem.
That Starmer and co are doing the traditional new labour "who else will they vote for" approach when it comes to anywhere left of centre.
There is no attempt to win the swing voters by changing their minds but simply by announcing labour has changed to suit them. So again serves people with similar dogmatic positions to you well but not others.
Thirdly we have the issue that we do need to think beyond the here and now and think long term. Triangulation of the votes to target those centrist voters consistently shifts the overton window rightwards so whats going to happen in 2029 especially since the damage caused by the tories is only going to be partially fixed by then. Easy to blame the left and then move further right.
Finally the simple fact is if the left continue to vote unquestioning for Starmer and co they will continue to be ignored. Its only once the risk of withdrawing votes is realised that positions will change.
