There is zero chance of Reform UK pulling out of the general election because frankly it would be of zero advantage to them.
Completely agree. This is their opportunity to get as much money out of their gullible followers until the next election. There is no chance of them not taking full advantage of this sales period.
this feels like it will bite sunak in the arse
he lied to her face, knowing in that just a few hours he'd be announcing an election and the law would never get through
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1793944909893792085
Lib-Dems announcing that they want to give patients the right to see a GP within 7 days, which is fine, I guess. How're you going to achieve that Ed?
Put GPs in glass offices and allow folk to come and see them work through the windows. Solved it.
How’re you going to achieve that Ed?
I don't think he posts on here so let me help you:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy66901gz3po
Lib-Dems announcing that they want to give patients the right to see a GP within 7 days,
7 days!
Pretty low bar to set.
From Ernie's BBC link
Half of the 8,000 extra GPs would come from boosting recruitment, while the rest would be secured by retaining more experienced GPs, the Lib Dems said.
So the "extra" 8000 is 4000 new and 4000 existing that didn't leave, most likely because they moved into partnership / managerial GP areas which means they see less patients... This is just like the Tory "new" hospitals.
I’m genuinely shocked that of the laws they pushed through today won’t include the renters reform bill to put a stop no fault evictions
Who saw that coming?
7 days!
Pretty low bar to set.
If you’ve tried to actually get a GP’s appointment recently, you’ll know that’s actually a pretty ambitious target from where we presently are.
In our local surgery you’ll be looking at a month, minimum
"Half of the 8,000 extra GPs would come from boosting recruitment, while the rest would be secured by retaining more experienced GPs, the Lib Dems said."
"The Lib Dems said" makes it very clear that there would be 4000 new GPs under their plan. I can't see any evidence of the LibDems trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes.
7 days!
Pretty low bar to set.
Yep, that was my immediate reaction, and as binners points out, a sad reflection of our times.
binnersFull Member
I’m genuinely shocked that of the laws they pushed through today won’t include the renters reform bill to put a stop no fault evictions
wow Im pretty sure I heard on R4 yesterday they definitely were going to put it through!
Everyone assumes the polls will narrow over the course of the campaign
But what if Sunak standing brolly-less & dead eyed in the pouring rain, u-turning on a GE with D-Ream/Steve Bray drowning him out, was actually the high point?
A complete Tory campaign collapse is underpriced
Pretty low bar to set.
GP: Not an urgent care service. If you're that poorly, that you need to see someone quickly; hi thee to A&E.
“Half of the 8,000 extra GPs would come from boosting recruitment, while the rest would be secured by retaining more experienced GPs, the Lib Dems said.”
It takes 7 years minimum to train a GP, and then another 5-10 to actually know what you're doing. Giving patients "legal rights" to see a GP is just asking for trouble for some patients IMO. I can see managing that wouldn't be hugely fun times for my staff. Retaining more experienced GPs? Is that code for paying them more?
But what if Sunak standing brolly-less & dead eyed in the pouring rain, u-turning on a GE with D-Ream/Steve Bray drowning him out, was actually the high point?
It's a clever strategy........ Labour voters are renowned for wanting to help the weak and disadvantaged.
It takes 7 years minimum to train a GP
You do realise that this is not a new LibDem policy and one which they will have previously debated and discussed, and that there are undoubtedly some LibDem members with medical qualifications who know how long it takes to train a GP, don't you?
Boosting recruitment can simply refer to the Tory/Labour long established policy of poaching underpaid medical staff from poor third world countries.
20% VAT on private schools, I thought Labour's far left class hatred was expunged during the 'New Labour' years?
So all those ordinary, average earning families who's only hope of a decent school for the kids was scrimping, no holidays, no new car, make do and mend, to get them in a fee paying school will now be priced out of the sector and will have to find places in state schools (funded by taxes)
Geniuses.
It takes 7 years minimum to train a GP, and then another 5-10 to actually know what you’re doing. Giving patients “legal rights” to see a GP is just asking for trouble for some patients IMO.
This. It also has the effect of “induced demand” which makes the problem worse not better.
It’s like building bypasses to relieve traffic. A short term fix that makes the problem worse in the long run.
You can’t fix a demand problem just by increasing supply, the demand needs to be managed as well.
there are undoubtedly some LibDem members with medical qualifications who undoubtedly know how long it takes to train a GP, don’t you?
Actually I doubt that there are. Part of the problem with General Practice is that we are woefully under-represented in the higher echelons of government compared to our prevalence in medicine. Also most managerial/political GPs are part timers with very little insight into the profession.
20% VAT on private schools, I thought Labour’s far left class hatred was expunged during the ‘New Labour’ years?
Nothing to do with class, just treating them like the business they are and subjecting them to the same taxes. I would also remove their charitable status as none of them do ore than a token gesture to justify being a charity.
20% VAT on private schools, I thought Labour’s far left class hatred was expunged during the ‘New Labour’ years?
So all those ordinary, average earning families who’s only hope of a decent school for the kids was scrimping, no holidays, no new car, make do and mend, to get them in a fee paying school will now be priced out of the sector and will have to find places in state schools (funded by taxes)
Geniuses.
are you on crack.
Actually I doubt that there are.
Are you actually being serious or was that intended as casual hyperbole?
https://twitter.com/drevanharris?lang=en
The Natalie Elphick thing was just to inflict max embarrassment on Sunak i think. They knew she wouldn't be standing next GE, and already had a candidate in place. Suspect they had no idea it would be only a month. Makes that decision to bring her onboard even more ridiculous
The Natalie Elphick thing was just to inflict max embarrassment on Sunak i think.
Defecting to Reform UK would have done far more damage. Rishi Sunak, along with everyone else, was able to just shrug his shoulders and look bemused.
So all those ordinary, average earning families who’s only hope of a decent school for the kids was scrimping, no holidays, no new car, make do and mend, to get them in a fee paying school will now be priced out of the sector and will have to find places in state schools (funded by taxes)
Are you a parody account or have you "started early"?
#edit: Joe-m beat me to it...
binnersFull Member
7 days!Pretty low bar to set.
If you’ve tried to actually get a GP’s appointment recently, you’ll know that’s actually a pretty ambitious target from where we presently are.In our local surgery you’ll be looking at a month, minimum
Had the occasion to need the GP for myself this week for the first time in a while. Called receptionist at 8am. Had appointment at 09:20 same day and the meds dispensed by pharmacy by 10am.
Pleasantly surprised. Not sure if that was just luck or the Scottish surgeries are fairing better than down south.
who know how long it takes to train a GP, don’t you?
I don't doubt. On the issues facing GPs currently? I doubt it if giving pats 'legal rights' to demand appts is what they have in mind.
I heard it as some leasehold reform was going through but not the ban om no fault evictions, but I was haf asleep at the time and it was a bit drowned out by a purring cat.
Nothing to do with class, just treating them like the business they are and subjecting them to the same taxes. I would also remove their charitable status as none of them do ore than a token gesture to justify being a charity.
I 90% agree with Labour's policy but in fairness...aren't there lots of things that are 0% or 5% VAT rated even when provided by for-profit businesses cause they're in a special category of Good Things e.g. healthcare (physios, GP services, dentistry...) and other forms of private education (music lessons, Kumon clubs, special education tuition), tampons...
VAT is much more about what the product is than who manufactures it, isn't it...?
Charitable status is a different one obvs. But it seems like the main difference is 80% business rates exemption. Is that a big deal or not? I don't know how this stuff works
Are you actually being serious or was that intended as casual hyperbole?
I am being serious.
Evan Harris, to use your example, has never completed his training, and so has no real experience of being a doctor in the NHS other than as a trainee. And he’s definitely not a GP, so is unlikely to have any insight into what it takes to be a GP.
heard it as some leasehold reform was going through but not the ban om no fault evictions
No fault eviction will remain. There are going to be a lot of Tory rental investments with tenants to be evicted and sold
are you on crack.
Have you seen the prices these days? Crack is VAT-rated at 20%.
It’s an exception, but one of 650 constituencies is hardly a large one.
Farage only ever one one seat, and look where that got us.
So all those ordinary, average earning families who’s only hope of a decent school for the kids was scrimping, no holidays, no new car, make do and mend, to get them in a fee paying school will now be priced out of the sector and will have to find places in state schools (funded by taxes)
How "average earning" do you need to be to have £30k* to spare?
£30k is more than the average UK net full time wage!
*assuming 2 kids and you're not picking a favorite.
GP: Not an urgent care service. If you’re that poorly, that you need to see someone quickly; hi thee to A&E.
Sort of.
But A&E aren't setup to deal with someone coming in with some random symptoms that need a blood test to rule out cancer and a week could be a long time in a cancer diagnosis.
Or even something relatively minor that's keeping you off work. Your employer might pay you sick pay to be at home with a bad back until you get some painkillers and a chiropractor. But that's a huge economic cost when you consider the GP is seeing hundreds of patients a week.
The tax breaks for kids at public schools are greater than the per capita spend on kids at state schools and ofcourse many of those benefits are bestowed on the kids of foreign plutocrats. Sending all kids to their local schools would benefit everyone.
a week could be a long time in a cancer diagnosis.
Honestly, not really. And if it were they’d be sick enough to need admission to hospital anyway.
This is part of the problem of people not really understanding the role of a GP.
Or even something relatively minor that’s keeping you off work. Your employer might pay you sick pay to be at home with a bad back until you get some painkillers and a chiropractor. But that’s a huge economic cost when you consider the GP is seeing hundreds of patients a week.
There are very few, if any, things like that. Most things just need time to get better.
ofcourse many of those benefits are bestowed on the kids of foreign plutocrats.
There would be an argument for keeping the VAT exemption for private education provided to foreigners by UK businesses: it's effectively an export of services. Come to think of it, universities don't charge VAT either...
Sort of.
There's a subtle difference between being seen urgently and urgent care. If a GP needs to see you urgently then that's probs a triage/symptom decision, and most GPs will have a same day appt set aside for it. If you need urgent care, a GP will probs send you down to A&E/minor injuries anyway, so you may as well cut out the middleman.
If you have a droopy face, if you've had a seizure, chest pains, shortness of breath/can't breathe, bleeding enough to make a puddle. Go directly to A&E. You'd probs be surprised how many times a week I have to tell patients that.
I heard it as some leasehold reform was going through but not the ban om no fault evictions
Yes, that's what I heard at stupid o'clock this morning, too.
So they're still pandering to the owners of properties but those who rent from them can do one as there are less votes in it, is how I translate that.
I doubt it if giving pats ‘legal rights’ to demand appts is what they have in mind.
I have to confess that I haven't studied the details of the LibDem policy but is there any evidence that the right to a GP appointment within 7 days would be specific to a surgery?
There is currently a legal right to see a GP and/or access NHS care but as far as I am aware no one has the right to be seen by a specific GP surgery.
As I understand it the LibDem policy seeks simply to put a timeframe on an existing legal right. Which to most people probably sounds reasonable. We are after all talking about 7 days ffs, pre-thatcher you didn't even need to make an appointment to see your GP.
Pleasantly surprised. Not sure if that was just luck or the Scottish surgeries are fairing better than down south.
Pretty much my/our experience down here, using a surgery that also gets a lot of grief from the local muppets on SM. Phone them, they decide what kind of priority you are, phone or face to face appointment, you get seen or directed to pharmacy/more appropriate service.
I don't know if my expectations are low, or if other people don't understand that GPs operate a different approach to 20-30 years ago, or maybe I'm incredibly fortunate.
There are going to be a lot of Tory rental investments with tenants to be evicted and sold
Probably so they can emigrate 😉
I 90% agree with Labour’s policy but in fairness…aren’t there lots of things that are 0% or 5% VAT rated even when provided by for-profit businesses cause they’re in a special category of Good Things e.g. healthcare (physios, GP services, dentistry…) and other forms of private education (music lessons, Kumon clubs, special education tuition), tampons…
I think the logic was "essential" things rather than "good" things (although cake is 0 rated!). VAT on medicines/healthcare/medical devices is properly complicated and confusing!
Charitable status is a different one obvs. But it seems like the main difference is 80% business rates exemption. Is that a big deal or not? I don’t know how this stuff works
Its a huge issue. The rates for a typical private school would be eye watering. But it will also impact on stuff they buy - shiny new kit bought by a charity school will potentially be cheaper than the same stuff bought by a local authority school!
BUT there's probably a bigger issue in terms of the scope of charities too. e.g. if your local "council" gym is outsourced to an "arm length organisation" it is probably because it is a charity and benefits exactly the same as private schools do where as a council running it would not! Probably be better to let local council be vat registerred with similar beneifts to being a charity!
