Help please kind, knowledgeable people of stw. I'm now middle aged and for the 1st time will be spending most of my hard earned savings on a completely new bathroom instead of clubbing and drugs.
I really want to get this right as we're spending what is to me a fortune.
The builder has been found and the quote is for a complete new bathroom putting in (shower over bath, toilet and sink) new towel rad, all pipe work buried in walls, walls and ceiling skimmed, new lighting, room completely tiled and a hole put in the wall for an extractor fan as it's a downstairs bathroom with no external window or ventilation currently. Room 1610mmx2455mm. Just over 9k including everything except tiles and the bathroom furniture. Brighton so expensive place to get trades.
So if you have experience and a spare moment advice much appreciated please on sourcing decent bathroom furniture and other tips.
I'm liking the look of some of the higher end stuff from an online company called bellabathrooms such as for example https://www.bellabathrooms.co.uk/april-nuie-shower-bath-with-optional-front-panel-and-4-fold-bath-screen.html
Also i think the quote includes a cheapish extractor fan but i really don't want to scrimp on this so I want to come back to the builder with a recommendation. It will vent straight through the external wall to outside.
Anything else i need to consider/ask the builder?
Thanks so much.
Is a walk in shower definitely not happening, even with a shorter deeper bath?
If you squeeze one in I'd recommend it.
I prefer extractor fans with humidity sensors rather than the ones that go on with the light. I also find the little inline ones not very powerful. Can you find enough space for a remote fan? In the ceiling?
Edit - i also prefer a bigger bath - mines 1800 x 800.
Just my 2 cents, but I’ve been looking into getting our downstairs bathroom done, size is 1450 x 2800. No way is a bath going in there, decent sized walk in shower, toilet, basin with decent storage and mirror storage wall unit with inbuilt front light.
Overall cost is 4.5k - surrey so also expensive. I’ve already done the lights, first fix and have an extractor fan built in though. On the fan, get the quietest you can that works off condensation / humidity levels - they’re not cheap. Builders always specify the £4 fans that make a racket.
9k sounds quite top end, I may be wrong though.
i also prefer a bigger bath
He isn't building it for you though TJ 😀
Edit – i also prefer a bigger bath – mines 1800 x 800.
After he's fitted the bath to the
Room 1610mmx2455mm.
Does he put the toilet in the hall or the kitchen?
Just to say that I spec'd the best fan I could find at a previous house as I hate the noise and inefficiency, but it was still loud and rubbish at clearing the room.
Fit a window, at least it won't need electric. 😄
Yes bath has to be 1600mm due to the room size/layout and bath is a must for me as a manual labourer for 20 years for soaking achy muscles. Current bathroom is a weird corner bath with a seat cut out where you hold the shower attachment over your head whilst sitting down. Had that setup for 6 years so a decent shower over the bath will be luxury in comparison.
Ok humidity sensing extractor sounds good. Any brands/models that will clear that size room well? Only 2 people in the household so max 2 showers a day and we also have PIV unit upstairs.
Yes i think 9k may be top end but i did specify i wanted a really good finish and i thought burying all the pipes in the walls is a big job plus fully tiled room, making a hole in the wall and a new ceiling and lights plus new waste for the bath as the run off is poor and it doesn't drain well sounds like pretty big job. Also not easy even finding people to quote in Brighton. It's a tradepersons market just now and the company seems super reliable in terms of communication anyway.
If you are getting the whole thing skimmed no need to tile the whole thing. Tiles can be expensive, just tile round the bath and behind the sink.
Envirovent Silent 100t. Quite simply amazing bits of kit for the price. If you need a fan get one.
if its going to be fully tiled don't skim the walls, any tiles other than ceramics will probably be to heavy for a skimmed wall.
i would say about 10k is average cost of bathrooms i'm involed with(i'm a tiler)
if i had to pay for labour and full price for other trades thats a little less than mine would have cost.
tiles i got a bit cheaper as i use the shop a lot(and the very expensive even after discount towel rail my wife liked). for all the other stuff i found what i liked on the internet and then went local to a builders merchant that does bathrooms(jt atkinson) and they vertually priced matched the cheapest internet prices, saves delivey hasle and any other problems are easier to sort. its worth making sure you get a nice solid bath, mines a cleargreen, a lot of the cheaper ones are really flimsy and thin.
9k! That seems a bit spendy. We took out and moved a stud wall to put in a larger bath, relocated all our pipework, fitted a high spec bath, overhead rainfall shower and handheld hobbie for washing your bits plus an overflow bath filler all controlled by a single thermostatic valve, a sink, loo, column radiator with towel rail, bathroom cabinet with light, skimmed the ceilings / walls, and tiled half height plus full height around the bath and had change from 3.5k.
Have a look at Ergonomic Designs. If you shop smart and know what you need you can save a fortune on very nice kit.
https://www.ergonomicdesigns.co.uk/
I fit bathrooms...spec is everything thing...last year I massively under priced a bathroom
The job
Remove a single wall to join toilet to bathroom
Move toilet to different position and put a shower in its place.
Move sink to different position and put free standing bath.
Bath had to be placed on a raised platform to allow waste run.
Anyway I lost about £4k fitting this...but the customer was one of the good ones and added extras so I could make most of it back in the end I was only about £1k down I labour costs...but to me it wasn't about the money because it was a challenging bathroom to fit...and I won
The customer was very happy and I got a lot of work off the back of it.
But my av price for labour is £3k for bathrooms....that covers my just labour for everything except electrics and heating..London/Surrey area
Another thing I just thought of - "tank" the bath so you re not just relying on the tiles for waterproofing
@scruffythefirst it's 14m2 of tiling and we'll go with larger tiles so the actual tile cost isn't going to be that big and we want to do this well. The whole bath/shower area would need to be full height anyway so for a clean look and easy maintenance I want this smallish room fully tiled. It will look much less fussy than having different tile heights on different walls and i hate how dust sits on the edges of half height tiling and dog/cat hair always manages to stick to damp bathroom walls so it's just easier to clean tiled walls and they'll never need repainting.
Fair enough, in which case do you need it skimming?
So the quote is to skim the ceiling but he has also allowed for skimming the walls if required as he doesn't know the state of the walls underneath the old tiles and will be burying a fair bit of pipework that currently runs around the room and also up the wall into the ceiling where we had an upstairs loo put in. So i assumed the skimming is just to make good where needed to tile onto but i know nothing about this sort of thing. Interested in what @bigfoot said about tiles being too heavy. Should I ask my builder about this? Good tip on going to builders merchants with Internet price. Will look into that but does the bath i linked to look decent or flimsy just as a guide?
@sas78 thanks for the recommendation. We have an Envirovent piv system that works really well and has been faultless for 7 years so will definitely look into that.
@rockandrollmark wow that sounds amazing value! It's really hard to find trades people in Brighton and it's second only to London for prices with many months wait for decent people so I have come to terms with the cost.
I just really want to make sure we do it right so it's quality and lasts to make the high labour costs worthwhile.
I appreciate people's help on this. Will have a look at your link today.
@cheekyget you sound like one of the good guys and 3k for an average bathroom sounds amazingly good value for the SE! You must be seriously booked up?! Our quote does include everything except the tiles and bathroom bits so all sundries, towel rad, pipes, electrician etc and i know we do pay more having a building company to it all rather than getting the individual trades in ourselves but it's so hard getting people in it just seemed the easiest way.
@tjagain sorry to be dense but what do you mean by tanking the bath? I'm guessing that's unlikely to be included as standard then? Is it spendy? It's ground floor bathroom by the way if that makes a difference.
Can you see this? What would have been the external window now only opens an inch as the boiler is the other side in the extension (utility area) so a hole is going in the wall to the side passage of the house for the vent.
Tanking the bath - its adding a waterproof layer under the tiles so if the grout cracks the wall is still waterproof. especially important with plasterboard walls. Also the bath should be properly supported on all 4 sides with a timber frame - many fitters do not do this and the bath can move thus breaking the waterproof seal. IIRC tanking is now a requirement under building regs but rarely done
Its an expensive thing having a bathroom done - make sure it will last
this is what I used - two layers all round the bath, 2 part seal between the bath and wall, tiled over then the final silicone seal
https://www.rubberduckbathrooms.co.uk/tanking-kits
https://www.rubberduckbathrooms.co.uk/info/tanking-a-tiled-bathroom-is-now-mandatory
by tanking he means applying a tanking paste to waterproof the wall behind the tiles, tiles and grout aren't completley waterproof especially if you ever have an issue with the grout that you don't spot for a while. it's only needed in wet arears.
it's better to board the walls with a waterproof tilebacker board like marmox etc. which i ussually try and do but if that's not possible it gets tanked, a tanking kit isn't that expensive.
regaurding tile weight, i can't remember exact figures but sound plaster will support just over 20kg/sqm, plasterboard about 30kg/sqm and tilebacker board is somewhere higher than that. those weights inculde adhesive and grout. most porcilian tiles i use are about 25kg/sqm just for the tile so can't go on plaster, natural stone generally needs tilebacker board.
are all the walls solid? any stud walls i would just strip the boards of as well when removing the tiles and reboard, it's a better job for not much more work. on the solid walls more often than not i end up taking them back to bare block, by the time the tiles are removed, pipes etc. chased in they're often not in a good state plus there then can be the weight issue.
my own main bathroom at home total materials cost was about 5k which included new floorboards, new lowered ceiling, boarding of all 4 walls, new casing and door, tiles and all electrical and plumbing stuff. that was for good quality middle of the road stuff seaching for the best prices
Can you see the photo? The 2 walls on the right side are external so definitely solid. I think the others are too but not sure. There's £220 of tile backer in the quote if that sheds any light?
like tjagain says above but not sure which way he did it but it's best to tank the wall first, fit the bath and seal that to the wall, tile then seal again.
1 coat and fast drying, i used a differant one last week the customer had got and it was a pain as it needed 2 coats and was very slow drying.
yes thats what I did. Walls tanked. bath seal in place, bath fitted on a full wooden frame, tiled, final seal round the bath
yes, can see photo, like you say the 2 external walls will be solid, others could be as well, you can tell by tapping them and see if they sound solid or hollow. is the floor getting tiled, backerboard could be for that but wouldn't think that would be £220 so maybe they've allowed some for walls.
and as tjagain says definatly put a wooden batton solidly fixed supporting the bath edge, it;s still worth doing on a solid reinforced bath like the cleargreen i fitted
image on there shows the differance between that and a cheaper bath although thats not the best site for prices.
Shop around for baths- we found one with steeper ends compared to the slope you often get. You can get a better area for soaking in that way.
Alternatively, just go for proper shower in there and hot tub to soak in!
We have what is pretty spectacular bathroom. Built by the last owners. Has lovely Italian Catalano sink and toilet and a huge bath, with a walk I shower. The downsides; bath is enormous, can easily take two. We barely use it. Total waste of space. The shower however is in constant use. Under NO circumstance should you conceal the cistern inside a wall with no access. It hasn’t failed (yet) but removal of tiling to get to it will be a huge headache. Build a false wall I’d you just.
In the other en-suite they’d done the same. That cistern developed a leak and this saturated the wall slowly oVer two years. It was a massive job to repair and the house insurance paid (phew)!
I'd say price is about right, here's the breakdown for ours which I would say is on a similar scale (but was start of covid as opposed to post-covid prices);
Plumber and Decorator were Dads from school, don't think I really got mates rates but were hopefully not ripping us off! The plumber arranged for all the trades (bar decorator), but we paid them separately. We got furniture (bath, walk in shower, loo, sink, cabinet) from Sanctuary Bathrooms online and was high-ish end for most stuff. There was a fair amount of rejigging of layout/pipework.
EDIT; Just re-read and realised your £9k doesn't not include the furniture - so I'd say it's rather over the top.
If you're worried about fan noise fit a 150mm LV one (can go into the wet zone).It will move more air and need to run for a shorter time period. Fit one with a run-on timer as humidistats can activate in hot humid weather conditions if badly adjusted.
We were only getting a new shower enclosure. This is where it starts! The shower we liked was bigger, makti qt or so. Quite a nice thing TBF.
The wall tiles had to come off. If the walls are getting done, should get the floor done, no point doing half a job...
Ceiling down
Floor up, joists reinforced to fix previous butchering.
Back to brick, reboarded with elements board.
Porcelanosa had a 40% sale on (maybe they always do?)
New loo
Just shy of 10k. We don't have a bath.
That'll be it for 20 years.
@Sandwich not worried about fan noise. It's a downstairs bathroom and there is an upstairs toilet so won't be going off at night. I now realise after a bit of looking what we need is a motion activated fan so that it will come on when people (visiting guests) use the toilet during the day but might not put the light on. The extractor is needed for smells as well as moisture.
@timmys hard to compare pre covid with now though and where are you based this makes a huge difference. No electrics in your quote? As I've said I'm not really concerned about the price that is all agreed. I just want to make sure we get a quality finish for the outlay.
Right will look into baths a bit more. It won't be huge due to the space and don't want to waste water. Only 5 ft 6 so will be able to a have a relaxing soak after a hard day's gardening.
Right will look into baths a bit more. It won't be huge due to the space and don't want to waste water. Only 5 ft 6 so will be able to a have a relaxing soak after a hard day's gardening.
How about this extractor?
https://www.extractorfanworld.co.uk/envirovent-sil100pir-silent-extractor-fan--pir-3195-p.asp
@timmys hard to compare pre covid with now though and where are you based this makes a huge difference. No electrics in your quote?
Fair point on pre versus post covid. Work on mine was due to start the week of the first lockdown but was then postponed until August.
Location - near Cambridge, so anything property-ish is about as high as you can find outside of London.
Electrics - wasn’t masses to do but the plumber did it so is included in his cost, as was anything else not detailed separately (eg. skip hire).
I would like to recommend Storm Walls for your shower and bath area (and other areas too if you like them). In short they are in effect great big tiles! We used laminate ply ones but loads of materials and styles available. We fist saw them in a posh hotel that we stayed at and having previously had a difficult to trace bathroom leak from the shower liked the idea and look. Google Mermaid Panels for the ones we used and Toolstation have them reasonably priced too (I am sure other types brands and deals are available but it is what we used and where we got them from). They are a bit different but similar price wise to tiles and installation was a cheap addon rather that following a quote from a tile fitter less cost overall - but not by a life changing amount in the scheme of things!
We’ve just recently done the same, having renovated our forever home.
So one bit of advice DON’T PAY UNTIL THEY’VE FINISHED! This may have been worse through lockdown but we learned the hard way, held off money to the plumber u til the job was done, but for example for the kitchen the wood worktop was fitted and we paid, he said he’d come back and seal it…..never came back, never picked up the phone or answered voicemails! Luckily not a big job but still annoying!
Also do not assume they’ll do what you think they will, we found out mainly as ours was a full layout change we had to literally tell them everything and give detailed plans so there was no way anything could be misunderstood!
Here’s the before and after!
That's stunning!
I think knowing that we're paying top end and that there are several ways of doing things will give me confidence to talk things through with the builder and ask for details of what he's planning.
We’re very pleased with it now, I think overall it cost about £4K to do. But for example we don’t have a vanity unit just a small dresser that we had the plumber fit a sink into and plumb in with the pipes hidden so that saved a chunk of money.
Another useful tip : check all parts when they arrive! When we came to have the toilet fitted the company had sent the wrong toilet seat and it was out of its return time, so had to buy the right one.
Only expenses really were bath, shower, toilet (again 2nd toilet seat lid) tiles, sink, plumbing and tiler. Plumber came to about £2k I think and tiler was around £400. We did all the painting ourselves as well as all the finishing like mitreing and fitting the floor trims which aren’t in that pic.
I will say we were very surprised though… bought a shower tray, over £100 I think from Victoria plum and it was absolute garbage. Plastic and flexy! That one there is a stone resin one, which is the second as the first stone resin one was faulty… so each time that bottom row of tiles had to be removed!
The bath was a bargain as should’ve been over £1000 and we got it for £300 in the sale so definitely pays to shop around.
Will keep an eye on this thread too!
Had my bathroom done around 3 years ago - was £11.5k in the end (Bristol area) but I'm happy with it (apart from one thing, which is the wall hung toilet).
I went with a plumber to do the work (who'd previously done a good job replacing a boiler) and one thing I liked was he sub-contracted various bits to people he'd worked with a lot before so it was a specialist grouter, specialist tiler, specialist painter etc. all doing their bits rather than the plumber cobbling it all together. There were definitely cheaper options though :p
Best decision was when he offered to go with me to the local plumbing supplies showroom he uses, I end up with a few ex-showroom bargains but mostly it gave me peace of mind everything was correct and decent quality. I did request a specific Grohe shower (£1k) and toilet (£350) but the other bits I just selected on the day walking through the showroom.
The tiling cost a fortune but looks great (I spent a fair few hours visiting show rooms to select what I wanted, the plumber tried to steer me to a place he had an account + discount with but only ended up getting one type of tile there as they didn't have what I wanted for the floor tiles + some walls).
Highlights:
Switching from a weak through-wall extractor to a decent in-line ceiling one - makes a big difference. It doesn't quite keep up with the steam on a cold morning but it's gone in the few minutes it takes to dry off and comb my hair so I don't think I'd have got any use from a humidity sensing one.
The only place I had for a towel radiator that wasn't right next to the toilet was behind the bathroom door but that wasn't ideal so I decided to try under-wall heating instead (basically under-floor heating mounted in the wall :p ), worked out really well - although normally it only heats the wall to about 23c behind a towel it gets to more like 40c so dries them pretty fast. I used stick on towel hooks to avoid the risk of drilling into the heating coils...
Tanking - following advice on here I insisted on tanking behind the wall sections likely to get sprayed when showering, only added about £50 I think but gave me peace of mind (despite the plumber and tiler saying it wasn't necessary and that they usually only tank enclosed shower units)
Issues:
Worst decision was the wall hung toilet, even though the plumber recommended I get a normal floor mount one I wanted to be fancy :p Unfortunately I hadn't realised my house was as shonkily built as it was - what I thought were stud walls were actually just 3 sheets of plasterboard bonded to each other so he had to get a carpenter in to build a frame to mount the toilet to (along with the hidden cistern). All looked great in the end but it soon started flexing a bit and a tile cracked on the wall it's mounted into, I ended up bodging wedging something under the toilet in the end - not what you want after spending a load of money...
Cistern drip - I haven't got to the bottom of it but there's often a drip within the enclosed cistern (so it sounds much louder), whenever I've stuck an inspection camera in though I can't see any evidence of it. The only issue it causes is I need to keep the bathroom door closed at night as a result (otherwise I can hear it from my bedroom), which means the bathroom doesn't get passively heated (see underfloor heating below)
Under-floor heating - it's OK in that it takes the cold out of the tiles (so I just have it on for a couple of hours starting at 4am) but it needs to be on constantly to actually properly heat the room (and was costing about £80 a month electricity) but I soon got used to the room being a bit chilly first thing and just have it on to warm the tiles
and a tile cracked on the wall it’s mounted into
seen that happen before, i always make sure the joiner has solidly fixed timber below thw waste outlet where the toilet will push against the wall.
seen that happen before, i always make sure the joiner has solidly fixed timber below thw waste outlet where the toilet will push against the wall.
Shouldn’t really need that if a good built in frame/cistern. I always use Geberit ones, not the cheapest by a long shot but solidly built and have a steel bar across the bottom of the pan. Any failures I see are usually down to installation failures. I always double board the wall over the top of the frame to stiffen everything up.
