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Here's a thought...if, as reported, trump has decided not to attempt a self-pardon and not issue pardons to family/close associates why would he pardon anyone else?
His power has almost disappeared and he faces significant potential problems - mainly financial and legal.
He is known to be transactional so what could any of those who might be hoping for a pardon do for him when the debts become due, lawsuits land and melania starts divorce proceedings?
"He can give pre-emptive blanket pardons"
I know that but at the moment the ball is in the corridor of uncertainty. The prime suspects are probably tying themselves in knots, wondering wether to ask for a pardon or not. Wondering what charges may or may not be coming.
When do his powers run out, is it at midnight tonight or when Joe signs on the dotted line?
When Joe is sworn in. Midday tomorrow in DC, 5pm here iirc
seems to me like Mitch McConnell is sending out a thinly veiled threat, don't pardon yourself, your family, snowdon or Assange and keep your head down until tomorrow or I'll whip the senate republicans to pass the impeachment when you are gone.
has he pardoned Tiger King yet?
He’ll go for a last minute self pardon, it’ll be the last thing he does as a president, timed perfectly to try and distract news coverage from Biden being sworn in
He’ll go for a last minute self pardon
he probably can't afford it.
Ep. 4 of the excellent Trump Show entitled ‘Downfall’
The Trump Show, Downfall: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p093rzhd via @bbciplayer
Was expecting rent a rant anytime now! (8/10 - mostly for ‘lame duck a l’orange’) 🤣
The prime suspects are probably tying themselves in knots, wondering wether to ask for a pardon or not. Wondering what charges may or may not be coming.
The catch with a pardon this late in the day is theres more to the process than the President announcing the pardon - until the process has been enacted and finalised 'The President' can change his mind and retract it Today the president is Trump, tomorrow its Biden - it can be a different president that revokes the pardon if it hasn't yet been enacted.
So a pardon is potentially worthless - however you can't pardon someone who's innocent. Giving pre-emptive pardons out this late in the day basically attributes guilt to them moments before the protection the pardon was supposed to offer gets taken away.
A pre-emptive pardon can pre-empt a conviction and be issued before or even during a prosecution. They would be issued in circumstances where a trial and conviction would inevitably be followed by a pardon but they don't contest the outcome of that trial - the pardon doesn't overturn guilt it just overturns or reduces the sentence served by the guilty. It can't pre-empt a 'crime yet to be committed' or a charge or prosecution yet to be made - so a pardon in itself reveals a 'Crime against the United States' has been committed by that person - as those are the only kinds of crime a President can pardon.
Don’t forget, Trump is a spoiled manbaby. As such, he knows that ‘a pardon’ is the grownup word for a ‘bottom-burp’
Appellant: ‘President Trump Sir, have you thought about issuing a pardon?’
If he is dumb enough to attempt a self-pardon that will go straight to the courts.
Isn’t trump pardoning himself late on just tee-ing up Biden to tear it up, thus giving him more ammo to feed to the baying hoards?
It was reported that he would charge $2m for a pardon... I expect that's why he's planning to issue loads of them.
Neb, the reporting was that some of those seeking pardons were offering chunky payments to lobbyists - not to trump.
Journos and various Dems will undoubtedly be looking for evidence of any payments getting to trump or close associates as that would be another legal stick to beat him with.
Trump won't pardon anybody close accused of misdeeds, as it points to his own associated guilt. he will hang the world out to dry to defend himself.
Won’t his argument be ‘I have to Pardon myself/those close to me to to protect me/them from the radical left issuing bogus charges, in order to bankrupt me/them’?
So, he's pardoning Steve Bannon eh!
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/19/politics/steve-bannon-pardoned-by-trump/index.html
So, he’s pardoning Steve Bannon eh!
The list of pardons is an interesting read - for each one issued theres a dialogue with things like who has supported or reccommended the pardon - details of the crime pardoned, the remorse shown. exemplary behaviour since the event, the efforts made to turn their life around, good deeds done. Theres the odd amusing one - "a guy done a crime but it was like ages ago and is no an OK kinda a guy and if he gets a pardon then he can buy a gun"
But Steve Bannon's is just "he's been investigated for some fraud stuff - he's a conservative'
Stephen K. Bannon – President Trump granted a full pardon to Stephen Bannon. Prosecutors pursued Mr. Bannon with charges related to fraud stemming from his involvement in a political project. Mr. Bannon has been an important leader in the conservative movement and is known for his political acumen.
How can you be pardoned for a crime you haven't been convicted of? 🤔
Didn't recognise many names there, although Michael Ashley sounds familiar? 🤔
Pardoning rappers to show he is down with the black community and BLM is just fake mews.
Steven Samuel Grantham - He now seeks a pardon for forgiveness and to restore his gun rights.
At least he's honest about it!
Didn’t recognise many names there, although Michael Ashley sounds familiar?
Mainly corrupt state and local politicians, by the looks of it. Tiger King seems to have missed the last limo to Pardonpalooza though.
Drain the swamp I hear him say...
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/20/trump-revokes-rule-lobbying-by-white-house-staff-460608
the ball is in the corridor of uncertainty.
this deserves greater appreciation than it received. I’m storing this for deployment in dull meetings.
How can you be pardoned for a crime you haven’t been convicted of? 🤔
Well, it leaves Bannon in the position of implied guilt, and I think removes his right to silence if asked to give evidence?
Which could be interesting in an investigation into Trump himself? (Leaving aside Bannon would just lie)
I don’t think Bannon holds any loyalty to Trump. He saw him as a useful idiot. In many ways I think Bannon would love to be the man who’s evidence convicted Trump.
Also didn't someone say he was charging for a pardon? Not sure how accurate this is, or even if it's legal but if true it would explain why he was firing out so many pardons.
would explain why he was firing out so many pardons.
I don't think that he has upped the game for numbers of pardons issued, just for pardons of close friends and allies. And even then a few previous presidents have issued a few dodgy pardons for friends and allies, Trump has just expanded that sector.
TBF there are a lot of pardons in there for non-violent marijuana offences etc that have received some incredibly long sentences.
https://www.thoughtco.com/number-of-pardons-by-president-3367600
Presidential Pardons Through the Years
President Years in Office Pardons
Franklin D. Roosevelt 1933-1945 2,819
Harry S. Truman 1945-1953 1,913
Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953-1961 1,110
Woodrow Wilson 1913-1921 1,087
Lyndon B. Johnson 1963-1969 960
Richard Nixon 1969-1974 863
Calvin Coolidge 1923-1929 773
Herbert Hoover 1929-1933 672
Theodore Roosevelt 1901-1909 668
Jimmy Carter 1977-1981 534
John F. Kennedy 1961-1963 472
Bill Clinton 1993-2001 396
Ronald Reagan 1981-1989 393
William H. Taft 1909-1913 383
Gerald Ford 1974-1977 382
Warren G. Harding 1921-1923 383
William McKinley 1897-1901 291
Barack Obama 2009-2017 212
George W. Bush 2001-2009 189
George H.W. Bush 1989-1993 74
Donald J. Trump 2017-2021 70*
it's always worth seeing Mr Pies analysis in print form 😀
Trump is nothing more than a brattish, sub-literate, braggart, ill-informed privileged, self-righteous, entitled, Mummy’s boy. He is a gurning slug who mistakes brash for charisma who thinks popularity matters more than integrity, that diplomacy has no place in politics. A bloated, incandescent lobotomised sexual predator. A paranoid and supremely unqualified demagogue. A massive 70 year old cheese puff Wotsit with tiny wandering hands. An arrogant ill-informed, oversized Oompa Loompa. A whinging, braying, misogynistic know nothing. A ****-headed egomaniac with a skull full of fetid shit.
Concise. I like it
90% of that could equally apply to Bojo
Quite the rallying cry from Bernie here. If only we had someone like him in the UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/20/joe-biden-action-bernie-sanders
Boarded AF1 to ‘YMCA’, for it to take off to ‘My Way’
Real classy like.
The bawbag has left the building!
A massive 70 year old cheese puff Wotsit with tiny wandering hands.
Around this point I lost my coffee.
Does anyone know the significance of the US flag with vertical stripes? They have one in the field of flags. A mixture of stuff on Google, peacetime flag?
US flag with vertical stripes?
Chinese knock off?
This idea of a civil or peacetime United States flag, such as the one your neighbor is flying, is pretty much an urban myth. It also seems to be a favorite of various conspiracy or anti-tax groups.
Here's the deal: In 1799 the U.S. Treasury Department had something called the Revenue Cutter Service, charged with enforcing custom rules and stopping smugglers. It was the forerunner of today's Coast Guard.
Congress authorized the service to fly a flag of 16 vertical red and white stripes. Sixteen stripes because there were 16 states at the time. The idea was to distinguish customers-enforcement ships from military ships. That's where people today somehow got the idea there is an official civil flag separate from the military Stars and Stripes.
There were a couple different versions of the first customs flag, mostly involving the arrangements of an eagle and stars. Of course, there were also various versions of the U.S. flag until the design we use today (plus two more stars) was specified by executive order in 1912.
And something very similar to that original Revenue Cutter Service Ensign is used today by the U.S. Coast Guard.