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Again that is unfair on rural communities that *have* to do some miles just to get around and do life.
+1
And I'm already paying +£500 in 'road tax' for my family-sized saloon as it was >£40k new, whereas my wife's SUV's 'road tax' is about a 1/3 of that, because it was <£40k.
As there is very little co2 in the earths atmosphere I don’t get all the push on reduction? If the climate is changing it can’t be down to co2. It is estimated that co2 accounts for 0.04% of the earths atmosphere.
Not sure if stupid or trolling...
"and"
We all need to do more and the standard British exceptionalism clause is just bullshit. We are all hypocrites. None of us is doing enough
This is the most important statement in this thread for me.
Of particular distaste I think the posters that state it's for the government to put regs place before they will be changing their ways. Like the religious who require a missive from a book or a head god bother before they understand what the right thing to do is.
It is conceivable that coming out of your house to find your tyres have been let down could actually be the difference between life and death (miniscule probability, sure, but possible).
In the West End of Glasgow? Yeah, I would say zero probability.
Like I said, if there was ever a place where you absolutely do not need to own an SUV it's the West End of Glasgow and the protestors picked their location well.
Hence the fact the biggest 'victim' story the BBC could find was a pharmacist who was late for work.
As there is very little co2 in the earths atmosphere I don’t get all the push on reduction? If the climate is changing it can’t be down to co2. It is estimated that co2 accounts for 0.04% of the earths atmosphere.
But when I was at school everyone knew it was 300ppm hence it has increased by 1/3 in that time, which is a helluva lot and quite scary.
( discounting rounding errors)
Edit to say that its even more weird that due to the change we've now got a total of 100.001% of constituent gasses in the atmosphere..... go figure 😉
Yup – when my wife was 8 months pregnant with twins and started to bleed I would have been more than mildly annoyed or inconvenienced had I found our car to have had all its tyres deflated. I even exceeded speed limits (by some margin) and ran red lights that day. Thankfully all way okay.
Yes, thankfully you didn't kill anyone.
Unless your car is fitted with blue flashing lights I would say what you did put far more lives in danger than this protest did.
Wait until everyone catches on that electric cars are not that sustainable either.
@matt_outandabout did you read the article or just the clickbait headline?
"The Swedish car maker said that over a car's lifetime the electric version will become greener overall, though this will only be achieved after covering between 30,000 and 68,400 miles" and that's also using figures for the global energy mix.
The EU-28 energy mix is greener and rapidly getting greener still. And this graph is only for 120k miles which isn't that much these days.
As there is very little co2 in the earths atmosphere I don’t get all the push on reduction? If the climate is changing it can’t be down to co2. It is estimated that co2 accounts for 0.04% of the earths atmosphere.
It might not sound like a lot but it's enough to cause a lot of problems. Let the scientists do the science, and listen to what they say.
Two things.
Lots of the new Defender 90 in Surrey. I look at them, and even with one estate agent driving it, they look big but small inside. I looked it up - the boot is 176 litres. Really?
Surrey again. Friends are directors of companies. No problem with that. 2 year car cycle, this year get a leccie one, save the environment! "What do you use it for?" Oh nothing really, it's useful to drive to the airport once a week."
It's all greenwashing isn't it?
Of particular distaste I think the posters that state it’s for the government to put regs place before they will be changing their ways.
@Convert - totally agree with this.
statements like "I wanted it and it's not against the law" and "until the government..." are utterly pathetic and really show the level of social responsibility felt by the people who make them.
Self entitled, self centred, self aggrandising idiots.
I also love all the people complaining about tyres being deflated because ONCE in your life you had an emergency that required access to a car, but the millions of others times you used the car, it would've been an inconvenience at most.
Also LOL at the person who thinks a car tyre is ruined when the car has been sat on a flat tyre for a few hours.
If you can afford the £40k saloon you can afford the wealth tax it comes with. Further punitive taxation may be part of the solution here.
So Molgrips, what they are really saying is that buying a brand new electric car is slightly less bad than buying a brand new petrol car?
That doesn't make it good at all.
Best options are, in order
Have no car
Have old car, use it a lot less
Have old car
Have new electric car
Have new fossil fuel car.
Those last two are way, way worse than any of the others
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I'm in the Have old car and use it less group, some journeys cannot be done on foot or by bike and for a significant part of the country there is just no public transport. Its not ideal, I am still part of the problem.
There are laws about mandatory wearing of masks....
That’s going well (great example shown by our PM!).
Everybody agrees something has to be done (just not by them...).
Net****ed by 2050 here we come.
Love the juxtaposition of Davos'[almost] username and his view 🙂
Mr MacConnacher, who drives 25 miles to Aberfoyle, Stirlingshire, each day for work, said he needs a large car as he often faces "challenging conditions" on the road in winter.
But also has summer tyres on a car in Scotland in November. Do these "challenging conditions" involve not being able to get a parking space close to the Ubiquitous Chip?
I think it’s more nuanced than this. You say ‘wider public’ but I’d suggest you mean primarily those who own property. Those people are more likely to feel the way you describe, but those without property (cars, houses whatever) may feel differently. Inequality in our society creates these two camps, and age is a significant indicator. In short, younger people are less likely to agree with your view IMO.
I take your point about younger people supporting this kind of direct action, but it's not really them that need convincing is it? The older, property owning, SUV drivers are likely to have the gas boilers and meat based diets etc. are not exactly a minority. It's those that have a lot that need to be convinced it's in their interest to do with a bit less.
Yes, thankfully you didn’t kill anyone.
Unless your car is fitted with blue flashing lights I would say what you did put far more lives in danger than this protest did.
Given the situation at the time I felt that I had no other option, I stand by what I did 100% and will not apologise for it. What would you have done in the situation?
Interesting that (mild) vandalism to a vehicle is seen by some as a terrible crime worthy of being met with violence, yet vandalism against the environment is not something to be called up on at all (particularly, as long as there's at least one other person on the planet who can be pointed out as being slightly worse). In fact - as mentioned out - some people seem to think it's their right to inflict as much environmental damage as they want, up until the point it's actually made illegal?
The main problem is IMO that, although we've probably reached the tipping point where we're already ****ed anyway (barring some huge planet-saving technological advance) the time where it'll actually impact people in a big way is still years off and in fact, most of us will probably be dead or close by that point. So why [I]would[/I] the averagely selfish person really care? Even though I do try hard to be as eco as possible these days, not sure [I]I[/I] really care if I'm quite honest, as it does rather seem like pissing in the wind!
Also LOL at the person who thinks a car tyre is ruined when the car has been sat on a flat tyre for a few hours.
whys that then ? pretty big leap to assum a car is used every few hours......
HAve seen the results of a flat tire left for 3 days and the rim had cut into the rubber so ill stand by my original statement thanks even if you find it funny.
Given the situation at the time I felt that I had no other option, I stand by what I did 100% and will not apologise for it. What would you have done in the situation?
If I felt that breaking the speed limit and jumping red lights was necessary then I would have called an ambulance.
This thread has changed my opinion on the protestors actions. I was pretty neutral about it before but reading the responses has made me realise that humans are completely incapable of judging risks and really shouldn't be allowed to drive any type of motorised vehicle.
I now think the protestors should let down the tyres on all cars.
I’m struggling to think of pharmacies that are off a main road
Perhaps his patients might be. Home deliveries are a thing, especially in winter. You don't win hearts and minds with this action. Nor blocking the M25 junctions.
If I felt that breaking the speed limit and jumping red lights was necessary then I would have called an ambulance.
You mean the ambulance that would have to drive from the hospital to our house then drive back again. Even assuming it set off immediately that would double the journey time and we were very concerned we were about to lose our unborn babies - at that point every second counted.
If you can afford the £40k saloon you can afford the wealth tax it comes with. Further punitive taxation may be part of the solution here.
1 I didn't buy it new
2 My car is about 33% more fuel-efficient than my wifes' SUV
And your point is, jealousy?
You don’t win hearts and minds with this action.
Absolutely. But then again, relying on politicians to solve the problem facing the planet is going swimmingly...
Do nothing <hyperbole> and let your children die </hyperbole> or make a fuss on the way out?
You mean the ambulance that would have to drive from the hospital to our house then drive back again. Even assuming it set off immediately that would double the journey time and we were very concerned we were about to lose our unborn babies – at that point every second counted.
So when you called 999 they told you not to bother waiting for an ambulance and just jump in your car and drive to the hospital as quickly as possible and to ignore red lights?
I mean, it was life or death so obviously the first thing you did was call 999, right?
Right decision johndoh.
You don’t win hearts and minds with this action.
It's too late for that. We've had 60+ years trying to gently persuade people to do the right thing and we are still heading in the wrong direction. Times up. We need to be far more punitive to those that choose to be part of the problem.
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I can only imagine the rage of some forum members when they are ready to go for a bike ride only to find a flat tyre on their bike...
Right decision johndoh.
Without knowing all the details, maybe (but I'd still like to know what they told him when he called 999).
However, I'm still struggling to understand how putting your own and other's lives at risk demonstrates that having access to your car at all times is essential because sometimes it can save lives.
Maybe it sums up the selfishness of car owners perfectly. I don't care if I risk other's lives, the only thing that is important is the safety of me and my family.
These protesters are being Dicks, Nothing more, nothing less. They are achieving nothing from this action. If it was my tyres they let down I would be more that a little pi$$ed off. Hey lets go to pointless for the environment trail centres and let down all the tyres on T5’s on the grounds no one needs one to go and ride a bike. See how that goes down
The problem with these protestors is they seem to think that the normal rules of society such as respect for each other and different views and opinions don’t apply to them and they can do what they like, be as hypocritical as they like, because they are on the ‘right’ side of their cause.
Haha no I'm not jealous of people who own luxury cars. I totally understand why people want to own nice cars, it's a reward for working hard. Gotta spend it on something and people love cars. I'd have a nice car if I could justify it. But thankfully I do very low miles so have a cheaper older car. Bikes are my irrational luxury spend.
I'm not against the wealth tax on luxury cars, it's a sensible cash grab. My point was that if SUVs are a significant environmental problem, then additional punitive taxes may be required to change consumer behaviour. But the industry seems to be going the other way, with more SUVs of all flavours, so I doubt the government would dare do anything drastic that may damage their sales. Looks like we'll have to get used to seeing more and more of them.
These protestersPeople who live in the West End of Glasgow and own SUVs are being Dicks, Nothing more, nothing less.
FTFY
Two wrongs don't make a right and all that but let's not let the glitterati of Hyndland off the hook too easily.
So when you called 999 they told you not to bother waiting for an ambulance and just jump in your car and drive to the hospital as quickly as possible and to ignore red lights?
I mean, it was life or death so obviously the first thing you did was call 999, right?
We didn't know what it was (at that time we had no idea if it was serious or not as it was our first pregnancy). We called the maternity department (we had their direct number as we were already at the stage of planning for the due date - to be honest we thought it could be the onset of labour but they said the symptoms didn't sound like that). It was them that said it was potentially serious and told us to come in straight away. So right then we had a choice of hanging up and ringing 999 to ask for an ambulance or getting in the car that was sat outside the house (with four fully inflated tyres).
The problem with these protestors is they seem to think that the normal rules of society such as respect for each other
Oh the ironing.
Times up. We need to be far more punitive to those that choose to be part of the problem.
Do you drive, fly, heat your home with fossil fuels, have children, eat meat, eat plastic wrapped vegan ready meals, own a mountain bike or any items solely for leisure/fun? Then you've chosen to be part of the problem too. Or is it just people who drive a different car? We are all guilty, every single one of us. Hypocritical finger wagging at those we perceive to be marginally worse than us serves no purpose. We all need to look at our own impact before we berate others.
Reading this thread this quote keeps spring to mind:
When you're accustomed to privilege equality feels like oppression.
Hypocritical finger wagging at those we perceive to be marginally worse than us serves no purpose. We all need to look at our own impact before we berate others.
Good point, well made.
Hypocritical finger wagging at those we perceive to be marginally worse than us serves no purpose. We all need to look at our own impact before we berate others.
Good point, well made.
No its not. Its a terrible point (unless you were being sarcastic, that doesn't come across in type 🙂 )
It needs to be a collective effort. One person changing for the better makes naff all difference over all, we need everyone heading in the right direction
It was them that said it was potentially serious and told us to come in straight away. So right then we had a choice of hanging up and ringing 999 to ask for an ambulance or getting in the car that was sat outside the house (with four fully inflated tyres).
You asked what I would have done and, having had sudden scares during pregnancy ourselves, I may have acted the same way. Our judgement is not always what it should be, especially with the first pregnancy.
However, if I did what you did (risked my own, my family's, and other's lives by greatly exceeding the speed limit and jumping red lights) I would at least have had a good long think about whether my actions were correct or not which you don't seem to have done.
In your case I would be asking myself if I got enough information from the maternity department. Should I have asked them if we should drive in ourselves (obviously sticking to the speed limits and not jumping red lights) or if they were going to send an ambulance?
You don't even seem to realise that what you did was dangerous. It was certainly more dangerous than letting down tyres.
It's this lack of awareness (or lack of interest) in how what we do can adversely affect others is at the core of this argument.
I can only imagine the rage of some forum members when they are ready to go for a bike ride only to find a flat tyre on their bike…
Can you imagine the rage on STW if it was discovered that someone from the local anti-cycling group was letting down the tyres on all the bikes in the office carpark to teach them a lesson about riding two abreast on the road?
Hypocritical finger wagging at those we perceive to be marginally worse than us serves no purpose. We all need to look at our own impact before we berate others.
This is why we are where we are!
If there's no berating then there's no impetus to change anything! If no-one makes a fuss why would anything change?
As for this idea that "the government needs to enact change" - HELLO?!??! You have not been paying attention. The bad guys are in charge! They don't want to do anything!
Do you think these people believe their own fairy stories? FFS man, if you just want a big car because you like them and think having one’s fine because climate change is someone else’s problem then just have the bottle to say so.
Some of them genuinely do believe it. IME often associated with people in jobs that can't possibly be done without them (Dr, Pharmacist, etc). That said - if they are genuinely offroad equipped then as climate change gets worse there is an argument that some critical roles will actually need more of them - to get through the floods etc!
I can’t believe that so many people on this thread, after seeing the data on the ticket that SUVs are the second biggest contributor to the rise in emissions and if they were a country they’d be the seventh biggest polluter, are siding with the SUV owner.
I decided they were crackpots rather than competent scientists when they wrote co2 rather than CO<sub>2</sub>.
If this idiot works in Aberfoyle, why doesn’t he live nearer instead of slap bang in the middle of Glasgow?
Perhaps his wife works somewhere that living near to Aberfoyle would be stupid. Perhaps he cares for elderly parents in Glasgow? Perhaps there isn't actually any housing he can afford (we've no idea if he's living in a luxury flat by himself or he's sharing a grotty one with three mates) near to Aberfoyle because they've all become holiday homes? I wouldn't chose to drive glasgow to aberfoyle everyday - but I bet anywhere you did live to work in Aberfoyle isn't well served by public transport that gets you too and from the pharmacy for opening/closing time and that if you reduce your commuting miles you may actually do more miles at the weekend and wipe it out!
If the action they want is people to stop using SUVs and start using public transport they'd be far better pushing for a public transport network that serves the journeys people are choosing to make by car far better.
All that’s going to to do is piss those owners off and make them more defensive of there choices.
Indeed. Even if it did win him over (I can't imagine any "victim" of this saying you know what, I think they have a point and I think its good to give in to "terrorism" so I'm going to get rid of the SUV but lets assume they did) he's just going to sell it to some other muppet who "needs it for the winter" - there won't be fewer SUVs on the road, at best there will be another new car with all of its built in energy costs for production!
The west end of Glasgow has this problem?
If he doesn't live on a bus route I'd be pretty certain his own street is not a priority for ploughing/gritting. Now a bit of planning and thinking ahead and he can probably mitigate that and decent tyres would probably help on any car. If I was driving glasgow to aberfoyle every day I'd want a car that was fuel efficient rather than had better ground clearance.
However few miles you do in your SUV you’d have less of an impact doing it in a smaller more efficient car.
That may be a legitimate argument to people about to buy an SUV (feel free to campaign outside showrooms) but once you've bought one there is some balance to not simply throwing it away as it took energy to make and so will its replacement.
As for winter conditions – they do make these special tyres for snow, and if you really are worried they do make 4×4 normal cars too.
But worth bearing in mind that winter tyres, 4x4 on normal cars and roof boxes on golfs all diminish the fuel economy too - and don't expect people to minimise when they are used too this is the real world, not everyone has a garage (esp in the west end of Glasgow) so storing a roof box and bars can be a PITA, never mind switching wheels.
However, if I did what you did (risked my own, my family’s, and other’s lives by greatly exceeding the speed limit and jumping red lights) I would at least have had a good long think about whether my actions were correct or not which you don’t seem to have done.
In your case I would be asking myself if I got enough information from the maternity department. Should I have asked them if we should drive in ourselves (obviously sticking to the speed limits and not jumping red lights) or if they were going to send an ambulance?
You don’t even seem to realise that what you did was dangerous. It was certainly more dangerous than letting down tyres.
It’s this lack of awareness (or lack of interest) in how what we do can adversely affect others is at the core of this argument.
Yes I took a risk – a calculated risk as we were concerned about losing our twins at that moment in time. I would do the same today if I felt the life of a loved one was at risk and I am not apologising so don't try to tell me otherwise.