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Yes Munrobiker. Well said.
APF
No problem here, earth-dwellers.
The sanctity of property is equal only to the sanctity of personal freedom of choice and both trump any possible impact either have on the future of the planet.
Nobody should do anything ever unless every possible edge case has been satisfied and every single person agrees with and approves of the idea.
Gentle, agreeable persuasion that will bring everyone on board with zero inconvenience for anyone is a proven method for delivering change within human societies.
The memory of our personal choice luxury will keep our children warm when they have no choices left.
DON'T TOUCH MY CAR!!
These giant Q7s and such are an absolute pain on small country roads.
I don't understand why anyone gets that size of car (same as the Merc GLE, BMW X5 etc) - there must be so many places they are a real hinderance. A couple of years ago I saw a Q7 stuck in a car park at Newcastle Central Travelodge. TBF there were big signs up warning drivers of larger cars not to use that floor because of access issues so they deserved it LOL!
God this thread is so depressing.
We all need to do more and the standard British exceptionalism clause is just bullshit. We are all hypocrites. None of us is doing enough.
The real ‘news’ out of CoP is that our politicians have yet again failed to deliver on their promises and we are sleepwalking into disaster. We are past the point planning and in the need to ****ing do something about.
But keep trying to justify why you are part of the problem (and not part of the solution) because, well, because.
I reckon the only way we have cat in hell's chance of reducing the impact of climate change is a combination of grown-up government policy (so good luck with that) and making the kind of lifestyle changes we all need to adopt mainstream, socially acceptable behaviour.
Letting down the tyres of random members of the public and gluing yourself to roads gets you in the papers, but the impression it leaves on the wider public is that climate change activism is the concern of a lunatic fringe. Tokenism for the sake of self-satisfaction rather than really making a difference I'm afraid.
Wait until everyone catches on that electric cars are not that sustainable either.
(Sorry for the link)
I'm not really surprised by a lot of the responses on here, but it does remind me why I haven't bothered contributing to much on here of late (or even reading that much).
I get it, SUVs are bad. I've driven a few borrowed ones in my time and I kind of see the appeal, but I wouldn't want to own one as a) I care about the environment; b) wouldn't want the ridiculous fuel costs; and c) they're no fun to drive (apart from actually driving them off road, where most of them really aren't that good anyway).
So sure, for the majority of SUV owners it is nothing more than a status symbol. Maybe that says other things about their personality, or maybe they just haven't thought about or don't understand the impact of their choice of vehicle. Or maybe, just maybe, they do have a semi-valid reason for having one. Who knows.
However, letting tyres down is a dick move. I'd expect that sort of thing from scrotes out to do nothing more than piss people off, but from people that have taken the time to think about the environment and their actions I'd expect better.
Who cares how awful a choice of car it is and who that person is or what they do - every now and then a person's car (any person, any car) can be a lifeline. Anyone can have an emergency of some kind where the quickest way to get help is in their own car, or could need to respond to someone else's emergency. It is conceivable that coming out of your house to find your tyres have been let down could actually be the difference between life and death (miniscule probability, sure, but possible).
So, despite my dislike of SUVs and some SUV owners, I do not think that this is a valid way to try and educate people on their choices. If you really need to go down the route of inconveniencing SUV drivers (which personally I think is ridiculous and will only reinforce the divide between those that care about the environment and those that don't) then there are a hundred different ways that it could be done without compromising the ability for the vehicle to be used in an emergency and without damaging property.
Loving seeing car owners set the arbitrary acceptable vehicle size limit as just above what they drive, smugly ignoring the environmental impact of their own vehicles. There's some weapons grade hypocrisy on this thread.
Letting down the tyres of random members of the public and gluing yourself to roads gets you in the papers, but the impression it leaves on the wider public is that climate change activism is the concern of a lunatic fringe. Tokenism for the sake of self-satisfaction rather than really making a difference I’m afraid.
I think it's more nuanced than this. You say 'wider public' but I'd suggest you mean primarily those who own property. Those people are more likely to feel the way you describe, but those without property (cars, houses whatever) may feel differently. Inequality in our society creates these two camps, and age is a significant indicator. In short, younger people are less likely to agree with your view IMO.
Anyone can have an emergency of some kind where the quickest way to get help is in their own car, or could need to respond to someone else’s emergency. It is conceivable that coming out of your house to find your tyres have been let down could actually be the difference between life and death (miniscule probability, sure, but possible).
Yup - when my wife was 8 months pregnant with twins and started to bleed I would have been more than mildly annoyed or inconvenienced had I found our car to have had all its tyres deflated. I even exceeded speed limits (by some margin) and ran red lights that day. Thankfully all way okay.
Again that is unfair on rural communities that *have* to do some miles just to get around and do life.
+1
And I'm already paying +£500 in 'road tax' for my family-sized saloon as it was >£40k new, whereas my wife's SUV's 'road tax' is about a 1/3 of that, because it was <£40k.
As there is very little co2 in the earths atmosphere I don’t get all the push on reduction? If the climate is changing it can’t be down to co2. It is estimated that co2 accounts for 0.04% of the earths atmosphere.
Not sure if stupid or trolling...
"and"
We all need to do more and the standard British exceptionalism clause is just bullshit. We are all hypocrites. None of us is doing enough
This is the most important statement in this thread for me.
Of particular distaste I think the posters that state it's for the government to put regs place before they will be changing their ways. Like the religious who require a missive from a book or a head god bother before they understand what the right thing to do is.
It is conceivable that coming out of your house to find your tyres have been let down could actually be the difference between life and death (miniscule probability, sure, but possible).
In the West End of Glasgow? Yeah, I would say zero probability.
Like I said, if there was ever a place where you absolutely do not need to own an SUV it's the West End of Glasgow and the protestors picked their location well.
Hence the fact the biggest 'victim' story the BBC could find was a pharmacist who was late for work.
As there is very little co2 in the earths atmosphere I don’t get all the push on reduction? If the climate is changing it can’t be down to co2. It is estimated that co2 accounts for 0.04% of the earths atmosphere.
But when I was at school everyone knew it was 300ppm hence it has increased by 1/3 in that time, which is a helluva lot and quite scary.
( discounting rounding errors)
Edit to say that its even more weird that due to the change we've now got a total of 100.001% of constituent gasses in the atmosphere..... go figure 😉
Yup – when my wife was 8 months pregnant with twins and started to bleed I would have been more than mildly annoyed or inconvenienced had I found our car to have had all its tyres deflated. I even exceeded speed limits (by some margin) and ran red lights that day. Thankfully all way okay.
Yes, thankfully you didn't kill anyone.
Unless your car is fitted with blue flashing lights I would say what you did put far more lives in danger than this protest did.
Wait until everyone catches on that electric cars are not that sustainable either.
@matt_outandabout did you read the article or just the clickbait headline?
"The Swedish car maker said that over a car's lifetime the electric version will become greener overall, though this will only be achieved after covering between 30,000 and 68,400 miles" and that's also using figures for the global energy mix.
The EU-28 energy mix is greener and rapidly getting greener still. And this graph is only for 120k miles which isn't that much these days.
As there is very little co2 in the earths atmosphere I don’t get all the push on reduction? If the climate is changing it can’t be down to co2. It is estimated that co2 accounts for 0.04% of the earths atmosphere.
It might not sound like a lot but it's enough to cause a lot of problems. Let the scientists do the science, and listen to what they say.
Two things.
Lots of the new Defender 90 in Surrey. I look at them, and even with one estate agent driving it, they look big but small inside. I looked it up - the boot is 176 litres. Really?
Surrey again. Friends are directors of companies. No problem with that. 2 year car cycle, this year get a leccie one, save the environment! "What do you use it for?" Oh nothing really, it's useful to drive to the airport once a week."
It's all greenwashing isn't it?
Of particular distaste I think the posters that state it’s for the government to put regs place before they will be changing their ways.
@Convert - totally agree with this.
statements like "I wanted it and it's not against the law" and "until the government..." are utterly pathetic and really show the level of social responsibility felt by the people who make them.
Self entitled, self centred, self aggrandising idiots.
I also love all the people complaining about tyres being deflated because ONCE in your life you had an emergency that required access to a car, but the millions of others times you used the car, it would've been an inconvenience at most.
Also LOL at the person who thinks a car tyre is ruined when the car has been sat on a flat tyre for a few hours.
If you can afford the £40k saloon you can afford the wealth tax it comes with. Further punitive taxation may be part of the solution here.
So Molgrips, what they are really saying is that buying a brand new electric car is slightly less bad than buying a brand new petrol car?
That doesn't make it good at all.
Best options are, in order
Have no car
Have old car, use it a lot less
Have old car
Have new electric car
Have new fossil fuel car.
Those last two are way, way worse than any of the others
.
I'm in the Have old car and use it less group, some journeys cannot be done on foot or by bike and for a significant part of the country there is just no public transport. Its not ideal, I am still part of the problem.
There are laws about mandatory wearing of masks....
That’s going well (great example shown by our PM!).
Everybody agrees something has to be done (just not by them...).
Net****ed by 2050 here we come.
Love the juxtaposition of Davos'[almost] username and his view 🙂
Mr MacConnacher, who drives 25 miles to Aberfoyle, Stirlingshire, each day for work, said he needs a large car as he often faces "challenging conditions" on the road in winter.
But also has summer tyres on a car in Scotland in November. Do these "challenging conditions" involve not being able to get a parking space close to the Ubiquitous Chip?
I think it’s more nuanced than this. You say ‘wider public’ but I’d suggest you mean primarily those who own property. Those people are more likely to feel the way you describe, but those without property (cars, houses whatever) may feel differently. Inequality in our society creates these two camps, and age is a significant indicator. In short, younger people are less likely to agree with your view IMO.
I take your point about younger people supporting this kind of direct action, but it's not really them that need convincing is it? The older, property owning, SUV drivers are likely to have the gas boilers and meat based diets etc. are not exactly a minority. It's those that have a lot that need to be convinced it's in their interest to do with a bit less.
Yes, thankfully you didn’t kill anyone.
Unless your car is fitted with blue flashing lights I would say what you did put far more lives in danger than this protest did.
Given the situation at the time I felt that I had no other option, I stand by what I did 100% and will not apologise for it. What would you have done in the situation?
Interesting that (mild) vandalism to a vehicle is seen by some as a terrible crime worthy of being met with violence, yet vandalism against the environment is not something to be called up on at all (particularly, as long as there's at least one other person on the planet who can be pointed out as being slightly worse). In fact - as mentioned out - some people seem to think it's their right to inflict as much environmental damage as they want, up until the point it's actually made illegal?
The main problem is IMO that, although we've probably reached the tipping point where we're already ****ed anyway (barring some huge planet-saving technological advance) the time where it'll actually impact people in a big way is still years off and in fact, most of us will probably be dead or close by that point. So why [I]would[/I] the averagely selfish person really care? Even though I do try hard to be as eco as possible these days, not sure [I]I[/I] really care if I'm quite honest, as it does rather seem like pissing in the wind!
Also LOL at the person who thinks a car tyre is ruined when the car has been sat on a flat tyre for a few hours.
whys that then ? pretty big leap to assum a car is used every few hours......
HAve seen the results of a flat tire left for 3 days and the rim had cut into the rubber so ill stand by my original statement thanks even if you find it funny.
Given the situation at the time I felt that I had no other option, I stand by what I did 100% and will not apologise for it. What would you have done in the situation?
If I felt that breaking the speed limit and jumping red lights was necessary then I would have called an ambulance.
This thread has changed my opinion on the protestors actions. I was pretty neutral about it before but reading the responses has made me realise that humans are completely incapable of judging risks and really shouldn't be allowed to drive any type of motorised vehicle.
I now think the protestors should let down the tyres on all cars.
I’m struggling to think of pharmacies that are off a main road
Perhaps his patients might be. Home deliveries are a thing, especially in winter. You don't win hearts and minds with this action. Nor blocking the M25 junctions.
If I felt that breaking the speed limit and jumping red lights was necessary then I would have called an ambulance.
You mean the ambulance that would have to drive from the hospital to our house then drive back again. Even assuming it set off immediately that would double the journey time and we were very concerned we were about to lose our unborn babies - at that point every second counted.
If you can afford the £40k saloon you can afford the wealth tax it comes with. Further punitive taxation may be part of the solution here.
1 I didn't buy it new
2 My car is about 33% more fuel-efficient than my wifes' SUV
And your point is, jealousy?
You don’t win hearts and minds with this action.
Absolutely. But then again, relying on politicians to solve the problem facing the planet is going swimmingly...
Do nothing <hyperbole> and let your children die </hyperbole> or make a fuss on the way out?
You mean the ambulance that would have to drive from the hospital to our house then drive back again. Even assuming it set off immediately that would double the journey time and we were very concerned we were about to lose our unborn babies – at that point every second counted.
So when you called 999 they told you not to bother waiting for an ambulance and just jump in your car and drive to the hospital as quickly as possible and to ignore red lights?
I mean, it was life or death so obviously the first thing you did was call 999, right?
Right decision johndoh.
You don’t win hearts and minds with this action.
It's too late for that. We've had 60+ years trying to gently persuade people to do the right thing and we are still heading in the wrong direction. Times up. We need to be far more punitive to those that choose to be part of the problem.
.
I can only imagine the rage of some forum members when they are ready to go for a bike ride only to find a flat tyre on their bike...
Right decision johndoh.
Without knowing all the details, maybe (but I'd still like to know what they told him when he called 999).
However, I'm still struggling to understand how putting your own and other's lives at risk demonstrates that having access to your car at all times is essential because sometimes it can save lives.
Maybe it sums up the selfishness of car owners perfectly. I don't care if I risk other's lives, the only thing that is important is the safety of me and my family.
These protesters are being Dicks, Nothing more, nothing less. They are achieving nothing from this action. If it was my tyres they let down I would be more that a little pi$$ed off. Hey lets go to pointless for the environment trail centres and let down all the tyres on T5’s on the grounds no one needs one to go and ride a bike. See how that goes down
The problem with these protestors is they seem to think that the normal rules of society such as respect for each other and different views and opinions don’t apply to them and they can do what they like, be as hypocritical as they like, because they are on the ‘right’ side of their cause.
Haha no I'm not jealous of people who own luxury cars. I totally understand why people want to own nice cars, it's a reward for working hard. Gotta spend it on something and people love cars. I'd have a nice car if I could justify it. But thankfully I do very low miles so have a cheaper older car. Bikes are my irrational luxury spend.
I'm not against the wealth tax on luxury cars, it's a sensible cash grab. My point was that if SUVs are a significant environmental problem, then additional punitive taxes may be required to change consumer behaviour. But the industry seems to be going the other way, with more SUVs of all flavours, so I doubt the government would dare do anything drastic that may damage their sales. Looks like we'll have to get used to seeing more and more of them.
These protestersPeople who live in the West End of Glasgow and own SUVs are being Dicks, Nothing more, nothing less.
FTFY
Two wrongs don't make a right and all that but let's not let the glitterati of Hyndland off the hook too easily.
So when you called 999 they told you not to bother waiting for an ambulance and just jump in your car and drive to the hospital as quickly as possible and to ignore red lights?
I mean, it was life or death so obviously the first thing you did was call 999, right?
We didn't know what it was (at that time we had no idea if it was serious or not as it was our first pregnancy). We called the maternity department (we had their direct number as we were already at the stage of planning for the due date - to be honest we thought it could be the onset of labour but they said the symptoms didn't sound like that). It was them that said it was potentially serious and told us to come in straight away. So right then we had a choice of hanging up and ringing 999 to ask for an ambulance or getting in the car that was sat outside the house (with four fully inflated tyres).
The problem with these protestors is they seem to think that the normal rules of society such as respect for each other
Oh the ironing.
Times up. We need to be far more punitive to those that choose to be part of the problem.
Do you drive, fly, heat your home with fossil fuels, have children, eat meat, eat plastic wrapped vegan ready meals, own a mountain bike or any items solely for leisure/fun? Then you've chosen to be part of the problem too. Or is it just people who drive a different car? We are all guilty, every single one of us. Hypocritical finger wagging at those we perceive to be marginally worse than us serves no purpose. We all need to look at our own impact before we berate others.
Reading this thread this quote keeps spring to mind:
When you're accustomed to privilege equality feels like oppression.
Hypocritical finger wagging at those we perceive to be marginally worse than us serves no purpose. We all need to look at our own impact before we berate others.
Good point, well made.
Hypocritical finger wagging at those we perceive to be marginally worse than us serves no purpose. We all need to look at our own impact before we berate others.
Good point, well made.
No its not. Its a terrible point (unless you were being sarcastic, that doesn't come across in type 🙂 )
It needs to be a collective effort. One person changing for the better makes naff all difference over all, we need everyone heading in the right direction
It was them that said it was potentially serious and told us to come in straight away. So right then we had a choice of hanging up and ringing 999 to ask for an ambulance or getting in the car that was sat outside the house (with four fully inflated tyres).
You asked what I would have done and, having had sudden scares during pregnancy ourselves, I may have acted the same way. Our judgement is not always what it should be, especially with the first pregnancy.
However, if I did what you did (risked my own, my family's, and other's lives by greatly exceeding the speed limit and jumping red lights) I would at least have had a good long think about whether my actions were correct or not which you don't seem to have done.
In your case I would be asking myself if I got enough information from the maternity department. Should I have asked them if we should drive in ourselves (obviously sticking to the speed limits and not jumping red lights) or if they were going to send an ambulance?
You don't even seem to realise that what you did was dangerous. It was certainly more dangerous than letting down tyres.
It's this lack of awareness (or lack of interest) in how what we do can adversely affect others is at the core of this argument.
I can only imagine the rage of some forum members when they are ready to go for a bike ride only to find a flat tyre on their bike…
Can you imagine the rage on STW if it was discovered that someone from the local anti-cycling group was letting down the tyres on all the bikes in the office carpark to teach them a lesson about riding two abreast on the road?
Hypocritical finger wagging at those we perceive to be marginally worse than us serves no purpose. We all need to look at our own impact before we berate others.
This is why we are where we are!
If there's no berating then there's no impetus to change anything! If no-one makes a fuss why would anything change?
As for this idea that "the government needs to enact change" - HELLO?!??! You have not been paying attention. The bad guys are in charge! They don't want to do anything!
Do you think these people believe their own fairy stories? FFS man, if you just want a big car because you like them and think having one’s fine because climate change is someone else’s problem then just have the bottle to say so.
Some of them genuinely do believe it. IME often associated with people in jobs that can't possibly be done without them (Dr, Pharmacist, etc). That said - if they are genuinely offroad equipped then as climate change gets worse there is an argument that some critical roles will actually need more of them - to get through the floods etc!
I can’t believe that so many people on this thread, after seeing the data on the ticket that SUVs are the second biggest contributor to the rise in emissions and if they were a country they’d be the seventh biggest polluter, are siding with the SUV owner.
I decided they were crackpots rather than competent scientists when they wrote co2 rather than CO<sub>2</sub>.
If this idiot works in Aberfoyle, why doesn’t he live nearer instead of slap bang in the middle of Glasgow?
Perhaps his wife works somewhere that living near to Aberfoyle would be stupid. Perhaps he cares for elderly parents in Glasgow? Perhaps there isn't actually any housing he can afford (we've no idea if he's living in a luxury flat by himself or he's sharing a grotty one with three mates) near to Aberfoyle because they've all become holiday homes? I wouldn't chose to drive glasgow to aberfoyle everyday - but I bet anywhere you did live to work in Aberfoyle isn't well served by public transport that gets you too and from the pharmacy for opening/closing time and that if you reduce your commuting miles you may actually do more miles at the weekend and wipe it out!
If the action they want is people to stop using SUVs and start using public transport they'd be far better pushing for a public transport network that serves the journeys people are choosing to make by car far better.
All that’s going to to do is piss those owners off and make them more defensive of there choices.
Indeed. Even if it did win him over (I can't imagine any "victim" of this saying you know what, I think they have a point and I think its good to give in to "terrorism" so I'm going to get rid of the SUV but lets assume they did) he's just going to sell it to some other muppet who "needs it for the winter" - there won't be fewer SUVs on the road, at best there will be another new car with all of its built in energy costs for production!
The west end of Glasgow has this problem?
If he doesn't live on a bus route I'd be pretty certain his own street is not a priority for ploughing/gritting. Now a bit of planning and thinking ahead and he can probably mitigate that and decent tyres would probably help on any car. If I was driving glasgow to aberfoyle every day I'd want a car that was fuel efficient rather than had better ground clearance.
However few miles you do in your SUV you’d have less of an impact doing it in a smaller more efficient car.
That may be a legitimate argument to people about to buy an SUV (feel free to campaign outside showrooms) but once you've bought one there is some balance to not simply throwing it away as it took energy to make and so will its replacement.
As for winter conditions – they do make these special tyres for snow, and if you really are worried they do make 4×4 normal cars too.
But worth bearing in mind that winter tyres, 4x4 on normal cars and roof boxes on golfs all diminish the fuel economy too - and don't expect people to minimise when they are used too this is the real world, not everyone has a garage (esp in the west end of Glasgow) so storing a roof box and bars can be a PITA, never mind switching wheels.
However, if I did what you did (risked my own, my family’s, and other’s lives by greatly exceeding the speed limit and jumping red lights) I would at least have had a good long think about whether my actions were correct or not which you don’t seem to have done.
In your case I would be asking myself if I got enough information from the maternity department. Should I have asked them if we should drive in ourselves (obviously sticking to the speed limits and not jumping red lights) or if they were going to send an ambulance?
You don’t even seem to realise that what you did was dangerous. It was certainly more dangerous than letting down tyres.
It’s this lack of awareness (or lack of interest) in how what we do can adversely affect others is at the core of this argument.
Yes I took a risk – a calculated risk as we were concerned about losing our twins at that moment in time. I would do the same today if I felt the life of a loved one was at risk and I am not apologising so don't try to tell me otherwise.
Remember when covid was taking off and the government suggested people shouldn't go to the pub, but let them stay open anyway, so the pubs were inevitably rammed? That's where we are now with climate change.
Unless the government takes drastic action to change consumer behaviour, we will continue to do all the terribly selfish things to which we've become accustomed to enjoy, which are slowly killing the planet.
Yes I took a risk – a calculated risk as we were concerned about losing our twins at that moment in time. I would do the same today if I felt the life of a loved one was at risk and I am not apologising so don’t try to tell me otherwise.
I don't want you to apologise for it.
It would be nice if you had a think about it and asked yourself was actually necessary (ie, should you have asked the maternity department if they were going to send an ambulance or if it was ok if you just drove in yourself) but I guess that's too much to ask .
It would also be nice if you could recognise the irony in saying that letting down tyres could be a life or death issue because it would stop you going out and putting other people's lives at risk but again, I assume that's too much to ask.
No its not. Its a terrible point (unless you were being sarcastic, that doesn’t come across in type 🙂
You said, we need to be more punitive towards those that choose to be part of the problem. I asked you directly if that includes you? Based on the examples I gave of climate damaging activity - not just owning a particular type of car?
I asked you directly if that includes you?
Yes it does. It includes everybody
However few miles you do in your SUV you’d have less of an impact doing it in a smaller more efficient car.
I'm going to self-declare here.
I sort of own an SUV - a 4x4 yeti. A micro suv - is that a thing? I live at 200m above sea level in the highlands. Winters can be cold - we had snow of the ground outside the house every day from xmas eve to valentines this winter. A 4x4 yeti with winter wheels feels like a suitable car for the location.
To offset this (and because I like doing it!) I ride a bike to get from a-b (shopping, visiting people, commuting - not just a-a riding for fun).
In my situation an SUV that does reduced mileage plus bike when I can feels like the best worst option. Having another car for use when not biking and not in winter conditions feels like a bad thing environmentally.
Long term an electric 4x4 small suv at 'everyman' affordability levels would be awesums. I can't imagine it's on the top of many manufacturers to list mind.
It would be nice if you had a think about it and asked yourself was actually necessary (ie, should you have asked the maternity department if they were going to send an ambulance or if it was ok if you just drove in yourself) but I guess that’s too much to ask .
I had no idea if it was necessary but at that time at 8am on a Sunday morning I had a choice of potentially losing two unborn children at almost full term or potentially having an accident on the way to the hospital having just been told we needed to get there as soon as possible because the signs were that my wife was miscarrying. I do not recall the specifics surrounding the discussion of getting an ambulance versus driving ourselves there (it was 12 years ago) so I can't help with that one – I just know we were told to get there as soon as possible.
Yes it does. It includes everybody
Well we can agree on that 👍
Yes I took a risk – a calculated risk as we were concerned about losing our twins at that moment in time. I would do the same today if I felt the life of a loved one was at risk and I am not apologising so don’t try to tell me otherwise.
I wouldn't bother mate, Bruce is quite clearly more interested in 'winning' an online argument rather than any response from you.
He also clearly has no idea how dire the Ambulance situation is in North Yorkshire. If you had waited for one you'd have been waiting a long time!
I'm also enjoying him continually ignoring the fact that incorrectly inflated tyres might be a little bit dangerous too.
I have a small 4x4 SUV and come on here looking for some more robust tyre recommendations! In mitigation, I live down a gravel track and have already had 3 punctures in 4 months - last winter at our last house we got snowed-in for 10days.
It’s not just the size of the big 4x4s like Q7s, Range Rovers but the ridiculous low profile tyres fitted on 20” rims which means they can’t/won’t drive on anything but tarmac for fear of damaging their wheels/tyres - which gets a bit tricky when most of the roads around here are singletrack with passing places - not all passing places are tarmac either, the council contractors in their wisdom deciding to leave a 6” drop onto soft ground that is now deeply rutted.
Say what you like but SUV's are an absolute marketing triumph. Its kind of amazing that they exist.
Take a normal vehicle, make it a bit worse in almost every way, then sell it for more money. Amazeballs!
Even the name S... U... V...
Its utter nonsense.
Sports? :). I mean c'mon. Most of them have got clattering 4 pot diesels trying to drag 1,600kg plus of metal with a roll centre about a foot higher than it needs to be. Some of the big 4.0 litre monsters might actually be quite fast but they are about as sporty as playing darts.
Utility? Well maybe some of them, but the majority sit on low profile summer rubber all year round. Some of them aren't even 4WD. Matey boy's Land Rover on summer rubber that he needs to access the wilderness of Aberfoyle has much less "utility" than a FWD Golf with winter tyres.
Vehicle: Well okay I give them that.
Rename them Pointless Fashion Vehicles and they might be less popular.
Although, Conspicuous Uneconomical Nonsense Transportation would be even better.
I wouldn’t bother mate, Bruce is quite clearly more interested in ‘winning’ an online argument rather than any response from you.
It did make me laugh that on the other thread everyone in Aberdeen wanted to fight him when he lived here. And yet the rest of us didn't experiance that.
I have a Land Rover Discovery - reason...I really like them
I wouldn’t bother mate, Bruce is quite clearly more interested in ‘winning’ an online argument rather than any response from you.
Actually, what I'd really like is an acknowledgment of the irony of using the argument that deflating tyres can be lethal because it would stop someone going out and greatly exceeding the speed limit and jumping red lights.
I also think it's a pretty good metaphor for this entire argument. My needs come first and if that means that others have to possibly die then so be it.
Just don't touch my stuff.
I wouldn’t bother mate, Bruce is quite clearly more interested in ‘winning’ an online argument rather than any response from you.
Yeah it did seem to be going that way - I wasn't going to respond again if he posted again.
There's an important point in all this that collectively we need to disassociate ourselves from being marketed 'unnecessary performance' across a wide range of consumer goods. In an ideal world - given what has been known about climate from the scientists for over 30 years - by this point in time the car industry should have (and could have) adapted to collectively offer the consumer options which minimise impact. Even now as we transition to electric cars, just look at whats being marketed, still stuck in the fantasy of performance from what is fast becoming a bygone era. We don't need day to day vehicles that do 2-3 times the speed limit and do 0-60 in 4 secs. It was fun while it lasted but what exactly are we accelerating so fervently towards? It would be great but just an idealistic fantasy, if the car industry could pool resources to develop viable vehicles that forgo performance to instead focus on minimising impact, being recycle-able, simply durable & repairable, be actually affordable and maximise range not speed to encourage a swifter electric transition - this would be concurrent with being small and light but good design could still make them practical. That sort of vehicle may only be capable of doing 80mph max and 0-60 in 12 secs or so if the other things are prioritised. That's fine and would have the added advantage of taking a lot of aggressive behaviours of fragile ego's out of the equation. The roads would be a better place for it. Motorsport can exist in its own space on a track, where it should be. The fact that we collectively seem so far from this way of thinking now is not a good indicator for our future. If we carry on our rabid consumer fantasy as before, we're probably screwed.
The problem with these protestors is they seem to think that the normal rules of society such as respect for each other
Oh the ironing.
So you think it is ok for someone who you have never met before to let your tyres down because they don’t like the car you have chosen to buy? Really? Perhaps you would be so philosophical if they came down your street and let your car tyres down because they don’t like your choice of front door colour, or the way you cut the grass. I really don’t see how anyone can defend the action of these people.
You said, we need to be more punitive towards those that choose to be part of the problem. I asked you directly if that includes you? Based on the examples I gave of climate damaging activity – not just owning a particular type of car?
Let’s start by having punitive penalties towards all those who choose to have children. Let’s face it the average western child has a massive carbon footprint certainly way more than any vehicle you can imagine. From a climate change perspective more children are a huge part of the problem
Totally agree endoverend 👏
Even the name S… U… V…
Its utter nonsense.
Sports? :). I mean c’mon. Most of them have got clattering 4 pot diesels trying to drag 1,600kg plus of metal
Um, rich.
I think you've missed the point ( unless I have) it's even worse than that.
I think the name is actually because they are pretending that the vehicles are for facilitating sport, ie real sport, not driving.
The idea is that these vehicles are bought by sporty, healthy outdoorsy types as s utility to facilitate that sport. Ie you put kayaks on the roof (proper lols) or use the rugged 4wd to get you to your gnarrcore climbing destination etc
Does sound pretty far fetched TBH so perhaps I'm completely wrong...
Let’s start by having punitive penalties towards all those who choose to have children. Let’s face it the average western child has a massive carbon footprint certainly way more than any vehicle you can imagine. From a climate change perspective more children are a huge part of the problem
Actually I would go further. It's impossible to live without a carbon footprint. Anyone who chooses to continue living should face massive punitive penalties in order to encourage as many people as possible to kill themselves.
Did I win Whataboutery Top Trumps?
Years ago, on my Clockwork up in the Pentlands. Proper snow, really cold. Postman was happy doing his rounds in a little Mk1 Fiesta. He said it was by far the best vehicle for the job.
It did make me laugh that on the other thread everyone in Aberdeen wanted to fight him when he lived here. And yet the rest of us didn’t experiance that.
Glad I could brighten your day.
Maybe it was my questioning of car culture that upset the locals, who knows.
endoverend and chrismac are on the money.
Have a read of this: https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/energy-and-environment/2017/12/1/16718844/green-consumers-climate-change
Tl;dr - If you're a middle class or above westerner, regardless of how green you think you are, it's not enough, and all you're doing is tinkering around the edges rather than making any meaningful difference.
SUV or EV makes no meaningful difference - the answer is no car.
Factory farmed meat or organic meat makes no meaningful difference - the answer is no meat.
Big house with gas boiler or big house with heat pump and solar makes no meaningful difference - the answer is small house.
Short haul flight holidays or long haul makes no meaningful difference - the answer is no flying.
Having children that do all the wrong stuff or having children that do all the right stuff makes no meaningful difference - the answer is no children.
OK flameproof overalls on here goes.
I have a 4.8 X5 18 miles to the gallon it is a V8 and an 08 registration.I have driven company cars and vans up until I retired and with one knackered knee can get in and out the x5 as the floor is level with no lip to get foot over the X5 is auto and I do about 1200 miles per year, backed up on MOT mileages.
Having driven across the England Wales for work before retiring with up to 50,000 mile per year.The car was bought after 3 previous owners and it costs £500.00 road tax per year.Why should I not be allowed to buy what I want as having driven diesel barges all the years 40+ .
Petrol is paid as I use the high octane E5.
Not got a private plate and service by BMW at their prices so probably costs me in the region of £2000.00 pr year. Cannot have a van as not allowed in the local tip.
Not got a private plate
Ah well, in that case.....
Just because you can/want doesn’t mean you should.
Plenty of selfish attitudes on here, a sad reflection on us as human. Proud of taking pointless flights and owning unnecessary cars? No wonder the planet is f*d
I’m alright * everyone else
****s