[url= http://www.amnesty.org.uk/content.asp?CategoryID=11458 ]MORE HERE[/url]
After 20 years on death row, diminishing evidence and a case against him eroding with time this man has still been executed.
The Daily Fail have created a hugely emotive response to this with pictures of Myra Hindley and the families of the Soham murders. Blandly they describe the lethal injection as something quite appealingly serene! Then again, what else should I expect from a tabloid?
[url= http://www.****/debate/article-2040554/Troy-Davis-Justice-served.html?ito=feeds-newsxml ]Daily Fail Article[/url]
The case appeared to be falling on its arse.
We don't know if he killed anyone, but we do know that Georgia killed him.
DD it was a prolapse of justice.
It is a prime example of how clumsy the US justice system is and why capital punishment is an inappropriate form of punishment. At least someone wrongly convicted and imprisoned can be released, there is no undo for this.
harmless saline solution
clearly not!
The case appeared to be falling on its arse.
Sorry, in case I wasn't clear, I meant the original case against him. All in all, this is pretty bloody shocking. That Daily Fail article is sinister!
I don't presume to know anything at all about the evidence in this matter and it would be wrong to do so without a proper analysis of the case, but irrespective of that my thoughts on the death penalty are much the same as the below.
A humane and generous concern for every individual, his health and his fulfillment, will do more to soothe the savage heart than the fear of state-inflicted death, which chiefly serves to remind us how close we remain to the jungle.
RAMSEY CLARK, New York Times, Jul. 3, 1968
pure distilled right wing politics at it's very finest..
disgusting
Also killed yesterday, Lawrence Russell Brewer, one of the white supremacists who murdered James Byrd Jr (a black man) by dragging him along a road behind their vehicle. Such behaviour scarcely seems conceivable.
RED ARROW
RED ARROW
GREEN ARROW
GREEN ARROW
Ah, Vienna.
(That means nothing to me).
The sport of comment rating on the Fail's website
Honestly words fail me.
That Daily Hate aticle is disgusting
The United Kingdom doesn’t have a death penalty and in cases like the Soham Murders, the Moors, [b]Bulger,[/b] Fred West – ones so shocking that even execution is considered a proportional and measured response – this is a shame.
So executing children would have been okay then. Jesus wept.
Troy Davis' conviction looks at best unsafe and at worse a miscarraige of justice.
But he's been murdered by the state now so he can't protest his innocence any longer
I couldn't finish that article though I tried on the basis that you should always know what the other side is thinking.
Utterly repellent opinions dressed up as reasonable responses.
Even if he didn't actually do the crime he was executed for, there were probably plenty others that he got away with that this is sort of punishment for though............
I wondered if a thread would appear on STW. There's been general outrage here in Frogland and the case confirms my decision never to visit the USA.
After reading the Daily Mail article do I really want to visit England? A country that had Saddam tried where he could be executed. The Birmingham six would have no doubt be dead now were it not for the "enlightened" view that prevailed at the time.
it does sound like an abhorrent miscarriage of justice 🙁 r.i.p troy
it says in the article:
Troy Davis was not only accused, but also convicted of the cold-blooded shooting of a cop, Mark McPhail, in front of dozens of witnesses in a Burger King parking lot in August 1989.
what am I missing?
what am I missing?
All but two of those witnesses withdrew their statements, saying they were given under duress. Of the remaining two witnesses, one has refused to discuss it for the past 20 years, the other was the other suspect in the murder!
No forensic evidence, no credible witnesses. The state justified it buy saying that he was unable to prove his innocence, rather them them proving his guilt
From the Guardian
1. Of the nine witnesses who appeared at Davis's 1991 trial who said they had seen Davis beating up a homeless man in a dispute over a bottle of beer and then shooting to death a police officer, Mark MacPhail, who was acting as a good samaritan, seven have since recanted their evidence.
2. One of those who recanted, Antoine Williams, subsequently revealed they had no idea who shot the officer and that they were illiterate – meaning they could not read the police statements that they had signed at the time of the murder in 1989. Others said they had falsely testified that they had overheard Davis confess to the murder.
3. Many of those who retracted their evidence said that they had been cajoled by police into testifying against Davis. Some said they had been threatened with being put on trial themselves if they did not co-operate.
4. Of the two of the nine key witnesses who have not changed their story publicly, one has kept silent for the past 20 years and refuses to talk, and the other is Sylvester Coles. Coles was the man who first came forward to police and implicated Davis as the killer. But over the past 20 years evidence has grown that Coles himself may be the gunman and that he was fingering Davis to save his own skin.
5. In total, nine people have come forward with evidence that implicates Coles. Most recently, on Monday the George Board of Pardons and Paroles heard from Quiana Glover who told the panel that in June 2009 she had heard Coles, who had been drinking heavily, confess to the murder of MacPhail.
6. Apart from the witness evidence, most of which has since been cast into doubt, there was no forensic evidence gathered that links Davis to the killing.
7. In particular, there is no DNA evidence of any sort. The human rights group the Constitution Project points out that three-quarters of those prisoners who have been exonerated and declared innocent in the US were convicted at least in part on the basis of faulty eyewitness testimony.
8. No gun was ever found connected to the murder. Coles later admitted that he owned the same type of .38-calibre gun that had delivered the fatal bullets, but that he had given it away to another man earlier on the night of the shooting.
9. Higher courts in the US have repeatedly refused to grant Davis a retrial on the grounds that he had failed to "prove his innocence". His supporters counter that where the ultimate penalty is at stake, it should be for the courts to be beyond any reasonable doubt of his guilt.
10. Even if you set aside the issue of Davis's innocence or guilt, the manner of his execution tonight is cruel and unnatural. If the execution goes ahead as expected, it would be the fourth scheduled execution date for this prisoner. In 2008 he was given a stay just 90 minutes before he was set to die. Experts in death row say such multiple experiences with imminent death is tantamount to torture.
[b]CHARLIE WOLF is an American broadcaster currently living in the UK[/b]
Contemptible, badly written and seriously flawed 'journalism'. WTF does he broadcast?
Can we start a Downing Street petition to have this p***k deported back to the USA?
RIP 🙁
On top of what franksinatra has quoted, there have been other cases with the same police force where those "giving" evidence have said they felt pushed into their statements.
Regardless of what really happened (although evidence makes it's suggestions) this has been dealt with awfully. 20 years on death row!? Not only has he been killed, but 2 decades of his life have been destroyed before hand.
I just read that link about Brewer, the white supremacist. Here's an excerpt:
The 44-year-old requested the following for his final meal, however, did not eat any of it, according to prison officials: two chicken fried steaks smothered in gravy with sliced onions; a triple meat bacon cheeseburger with fixings on the side; a cheese omelet with ground beef, tomatoes, onions, bell peppers and jalapenos; a large bowl of fried okra with ketchup; one pound of barbecue with half a loaf of white bread; three fajitas with fixings; a meat lovers pizza; three root beers; one pint of Blue Bell vanilla ice cream; and a slab of peanut butter fudge with crushed peanuts.
I'm struck by this, it's flippin huge!? It's 7 meals and 2 family's puddings 😯
[i]Even if he didn't actually do the crime he was executed for, there were probably plenty others that he got away with that this is sort of punishment for though............[/i]
Is that based on knowledge of the case / history of Troy Davies or just a disgusting assumption?
Even if he didn't actually do the crime he was executed for, there were probably plenty others that he got away with that this is sort of punishment for though...
...and if you believe that (though there's no apparent reason why you should), it means that the real murderer remains free.
In particular, there is no DNA evidence of any sort. The human rights group the Constitution Project points out that three-quarters of those prisoners who have been exonerated and declared innocent in the US were convicted at least in part on the basis of faulty eyewitness testimony.
The absence of DNA evidence is not a real problem. It would be nice to have it but if it's not there, it's not there. Its absence makes it harder to prove guilt and yet guilt was proved.
The "three quarters of duff trials involved eyewitness testimony" statistic isn't that shocking either. What proportion of similarly serious trials involve eyewitness testimony? What proportion of trials have conflicting eyewitness testimony?
Higher courts in the US have repeatedly refused to grant Davis a retrial on the grounds that he had failed to "prove his innocence". His supporters counter that where the ultimate penalty is at stake, it should be for the courts to be beyond any reasonable doubt of his guilt.
...but guilt was proved beyond reasonable doubt. That is *not* the basis of the rejection of the appeals.
[b]Even if he didn't actually do the crime he was executed for, there were probably plenty others that he got away with that this is sort of punishment for though............[/b]
Is that based on knowledge of the case / history of Troy Davies or just a disgusting assumption?
Do we really need a sarcasm smiley?
Such behaviour scarcely seems conceivable.
It's shocking that there was also state sanctioned murder in this case. But that, of course, isn't your point. In Davis' case, it's clear now, that there is enough new evidence to bring the proof of guilt into more than reasonable doubt. Thus his earlier conviction appears very unsafe
A needle running harmless saline solution through a tube was inserted into his arm; he then lifted his head to speak to those witnessing his death through the glass; still to the end pleading his innocence.Minutes later a combination of chemicals was passed through his veins and in 15 minutes time, after shutting his eyes one last time and falling asleep, he stopped breathing, his heart stopped pumping and he died, pretty peacefully.
Putting down the family dog would have been a lot worse.
Yep, nothing more peaceful than killing a human being who's been protesting his innocence for 20 years! And it's comparable to putting down a dog.
Just when I think the Faily Wail can't surprise me any more with any more bile and viciousness, it manages to pull something out of the bag.
If you want to know more about murder police procedure in the US, have a read of "Homicide - A Year on the Killing Streets" by David Simon. Very much sympathetic to the cops but jeezuz its a system full of holes any decent lawyer could drive an elephant through.
I'm against the death penalty in all instances (yes including for Hitler or Stalin) but where is the heart bleeding for the Nazi who got smoked on the same night? Or the cop who got shot by some smokehound? He owned a 38" but he "gave it away" earlier that night. Not proven to be guilty isnt the same as innocent so spare me all the RIP Troy.
I love you America but sometimes you do make it hard to be a friend.
He owned a 38" but he "gave it away" earlier that night.
you realise that is the other (free and alive) suspect?
its a system full of holes any decent lawyer could drive an elephant through.
So why wasn't a pachyderm-sized hole found here?
the cop who got shot by some smokehound
Which is the smokehound you're referring to, daddy-o?
Not proven to be guilty isnt the same as innocent so spare me all the RIP Troy.
But he was proven guilty.
What's your point, again?
mcboo - it was one of the 'witnesses' that owned the 38 and 'gave it away' earlier in the night.
and yes, I can't really understand what you are saying.
But he was proven guilty.
What's your point, again?
I don't know their point but the evidence used to prove his guilt looks a lot more flimsy now than at the time of prosecution hence why most people would be concerned about the soundness of the verdict.
If he was retried today there is a lot less evidence to be produced for this trial.
We all know innocent people have been found guilty, that miscarriages have occurred.
I find it hard to believe anyone reading the details would not have some doubts in this case tbh.
Some more reading here.
RIP somebody. I don't know enough facts to make that singular or plural.
My point is -
I'm always against the death penalty.
This looks like a very unsafe conviction.
America by executing people just gives easy ammunition to everyone who has an axe to grind.
Where's the thread on STW complaining about the execution of the white supremacist?
Where's the STW outrage at Iran hanging young men on a crane for being homosexual?
I'm indulging in a bit of whataboutery (usually found here and in the Guardian) but you know, I've kind've got a point I think.
Being leant on by a cop to make a statement? Seriously, read the David Simon book. The police wouldnt get anywhere with 90% of folk in American cities without a bit of pressure.
"You can either go downtown as a witness or a suspect" is a choice phrase.
Read the link I posted up and the depth and scrutiny of the reinvestigation. Its easy to pick up one or two emotive apperent changes in testimony and especially when the person(s) wont be called forward by the defence to testify (wierd) but were there any DNA evidence gathered at this crime scene?
guilt was proved beyond reasonable doubt.
Not on the basis of the current evidence which hasn't been retracted - not to any reasonably sane person. The very fact that some original "witnesses" have retracted their statements which were clearly made under duress should be sufficient to put a bit of doubt in the mind of anybody reasonable - that would certainly be sufficient for the UK Appeal Court to declare a conviction unsafe. Or do you think it's reasonable for somebody to be proved guilty due to witnesses lying?
Look at the counter arguments on this document
oh dear daily mail... you should be ashamed.
I am totally unsurprised by the drivel they print, what's scary is about 2.3 million people buy and believe this crap daily!!!!
I am totally unsurprised by the drivel they print, what's scary is about 2.3 million people buy and believe this crap daily!!!!
+1
my nan thinks i'm stupid because i scoff at things that are in the paper. she honestly believes if they print it is true.
The Daily Mail should seriously have to come with a big disclaimer notice on the front: 'warning - this newspaper contains deliberate lies and distortions of a hateful right-wing nature'.
So am I right or wrong in my understanding that Troy Davis was one of the group that shot the policeman?
i.e. one of the group attacking the guy in the street who got struck on the head from behind and then ran behind the van shouting for help?
I know someone who writes a (non-political!) column for the Wail. She's said that if her article is too positive, it gets sent back. She's been told that things need to be negative in order to make the readers feel better about themselves.
Bloody awful, hateful paper.
But thats ALL papers.
Positive news doesn't sell. There are the odd exception stories but for the main we need to be read about how bad the economy is doing etc etc.
Pal of mine works for the Mail too.....he's a really good egg, isnt at all foaming reactionary. Havent the heart to abuse him but that really is an appalling article. Writes about an execution, illustrated by pictures of dead British kids. The whole nation gets to vomit over their corn flakes.
What if Troy Davis was guilty?
What if Troy Davis was guilty?
of murder; so killing people is wrong; so society kill him.
sounds f----- up to me.
So him and another guy attack a homeless dude, then one of the two executes a copper.
Theres confusion about who pulled the trigger, so maybe a double execution should have taken place.
boy oh boy, its sure not fashionable to be 'right wing' these days, is it.
I almost feel guilty for not being a socialist nut job.
i think when right wing people forward such well reasoned and eloquent posts calling opponents "nut jobs" it can only serve to redress this perception
well done
Theres confusion about who pulled the trigger, so maybe a double execution should have taken place.
whilst this does assure us we kill the guilty person it also assures us we kill someone innocent.
I hope that its a troll
of murder; so killing people is wrong; so society kill him.sounds f----- up to me.
So what do you propose we do?
So what do you propose we do?
I know this is quite complicated, but I'm guessing...
Hmmm...
Not Kill Him?
whilst this does assure us we kill the guilty person it also assures us we kill someone innocent.
Collective punishment - what's wrong with that?
its the punishing the innocent people bit.
Did you do that
No
Whack
that will teach them
It will never be implemented anywhere [ non totalitarian] for blindingly obvious reasons so why discuss it?
Collective punishment is the punishment of a group of people as a result of the behavior of one or more other individuals or groups. The punished group may often have no direct association with the other individuals or groups, or direct control over their actions. In times of war and armed conflict, collective punishment has resulted in atrocities, and is a violation of the laws of war and the Geneva Conventions. Historically, occupying powers have used collective punishment to retaliate against and deter attacks on their forces by resistance movements (e.g. destroying whole towns and villages where such attacks have occurred).
It will never be implemented anywhere
Well to be fair, the Romans did it.
Our circuits instructor made us all run a lap of the park because two girls couldn't stop chit-chatting at the front. I can't begin to describe the feeling of injustice 😐
I did not say it had never happened.
Bloody hell - like any of you actually think it is a good idea to kill 2 folk when you dont know which one did it.
Off to do more DIY
DD did you punish him by hitting another staff member there?
DD did you punish him by hitting another staff member there?
No, but good idea JY. You are a real "solutions" man 🙂
the pair of them are guilty of killing the copper.
as in the pair who killed Jamie Bulger. both sentenced for the crime.
How about this?
From the Ming (1368–1644) and Qing (1644–1912) Dynasties onward, the extent to which those within the family were exterminated was increased. Under the Hongwu Emperor (r. 1368 – 98), those committing rebellion and treason were punished by having their parents, grandparents, brethren (by birth, as well as "sworn brothers"), children, grandchildren, those living with the criminal regardless of surname, uncles and the children of brethren put to death, as well as death themselves by slow slicing or lingchi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_familial_exterminations
JY FYI collective action (it isnt called that cannot rember what its called - is it joint enterprise) is a concept in english law - like if you hung out with muggers and watched them but did not actually mug anyone you can still be held responsible.
Its beside the point, I'm against the death penalty. Full stop.
Capital Punishment is just wrong; premeditated state murder for the purposes of revenge not justice.
Democracy breeds over-simplied liberalism sadly.
Democracy breeds over-simplied liberalism sadly.
Deep. 😐
shame it doesn't seem to breed literacy
Interesting comment in that Mail article
What is the life of James Bulger worth (what little there was; he was tortured and murdered at the age of two)? Robert Thompson and Jon Venables not only didn't get life -- they got new lives at a cost of millions to the taxpayer.Venables is only back in prison because he was convicted for downloading child porn.
Did the scales of justice really balance in these cases?
Implying we should be executing not just minors but kids of 10?
JY
Common purpose or Joint Enterprise
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_purpose ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_purpose[/url]
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/apr/26/guilty-of-being-in-wrong-crowd ]http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/apr/26/guilty-of-being-in-wrong-crowd[/url]
[url= http://www.criminallawandjustice.co.uk/index.php?/Analysis/joint-enterprise-liability.html ]http://www.criminallawandjustice.co.uk/index.php?/Analysis/joint-enterprise-liability.html[/url]
[url= http://www.criminallawandjustice.co.uk/index.php?/Analysis/reform-of-joint-enterprise-principles-for-murder.html ]http://www.criminallawandjustice.co.uk/index.php?/Analysis/reform-of-joint-enterprise-principles-for-murder.html[/url]
Nick blackberry provides my literacy 😉
In a country that has a very active 5th Amendment you REALLY do need the ultimate sanction.
See it as a escalation of our own society. If we were awash with gun ownership we too would have some hardnose punishments wouldn't we?
JonR their effective punishment turned out to be partly ineffective.
Liberal society states we should always give someone a chance to redeem themselves but murder is unredeemable. At least in my eyes. How can you rehabilitate someone to be like me or you when they have no concept of me or you?
how can you say murder is wrong then murder someone for it?
That is the whole point we dont have the same moral code unless we both murder