[Closed] Training and diet talk...

Hmmmm... I'm 5'10" with a similar upper body build and have got myself to 11st 5lb.

I reckon you can get to 12.5 on the iDiet with ease and 12.12 (give or take 0.02) with some extra effort.

How much do you weigh at the moment?

I suffered exactly the same running down of reserves and muscular fatigue when trying the paleo diet

I did at first, then I adapted it slightly with great results. I increased the carbs taken around exercise. However I was doing quite a lot then. Now I'm doing less general exercise and really only doing the shorter targeted training sessions, I'm relying on glycogen stores during (as discussed on the other thread) and only refuelling afterwards.

I think that if you eat loads of carbs your body can get very good at using them for exercise and not so good at using fat. However if you train without depending on the carbs your body can become better at burning fat.

and only refuelling afterwards.

Does that mean no more coke pre workout?

How's the swimming coming along? I'm giving in and getting lessons.

It does Yeti yes. I have learned 🙂

I haven't been swimming for two weeks or so. Not good enough but that's families for you 🙂

Awesome!! You see my mention of 'Iron War'... I reckon you might enjoy it, although it is light on science.

I think fueling for events was posted by Solo on the last thread, Yeti. What I suggested on the previous page will do if you're doing a training ride with iDave. If you're properly racing at at an intesity that makes chewing difficult then put a Powergel in as well so that you can still get soemthing down if there isn't a descent steep enough for eating when freewheeling.

I generally look at the profile of the course before the start and spot the points I think it'll be easiet to eat and pee on the fly. On long events some descents are long enough to munch through half a sandwich sandwich especially if there isn't a climb imemdiatley after.

Time for a swim.

You pee in races? Well then you can't be going very hard. I never pee on rides therefore you must be a wuss*

* sarcastic post

...that and you usually have a break in the middle for toilet breaks, draw cash out etc 8)

LOL @ Jamie.

Feel free to use this thread to give me G[s]r[/s]i[s]e[/s]f about swimming on.

Edukator - just tell me what to have for tea tomorrow then??

Feel free to use this thread to give me Grief about swimming on.

[img] [/img]

down if there isn't a descent steep enough for eating when freewheeling.

TSY - hmm I really should've seen that coming. I'm currently down to ~15 stone. That's from 16 10 (a personal high, or should that not be low, point) about 5 weeks ago.

It's not for no reason I'm on the biffers idiet...

Edukator - Member
For many people with sedentary jobs it will mean getting over 60% of their energy from body fat assuming they burn 3000 calories a day and they get 1000 calories from their iDave intake.

Burning 3000 calories a day doesn't sound particularly sedentary.

For many people with sedentary jobs it will mean getting over 60% of their energy from body fat assuming they burn 3000 calories a day and they get 1000 calories from their iDave intake.

WTF are you on about? Do you think the iDave diet is calorie restricted to 1000kcal per day? It would appear that you are in fact a bored troll who hasn't taken the time to actually look into the diet you so vehemently criticize.

The fact that you thought that advising to eat carbs during endurance exercise is 'anti-iDave' advice backs that up further.

iDave you claim 2kg a week weight loss, that's over 2000 calories a day of body fat to be burnt. A small inactive person wouldn't lose that if they ate next to nothing and a typical STWer would only lose that if they were getting less than 1000 calories a day from food. Even if they lost 2kg in the first week the body would by then be in famine mode and losing more at that rate would become a painful experience.

Your diet has a red light section that says no white carbs, no ceraels and no fruit. That leaves pulses and vegetables which are such low calorie sources of carbs I doubt anyone would cope with the portion sizes to provide enough carbs for an endurance athlete. especially as many of them are notorious for givng people wind.

Do you acuse everyone that disagrees with you of trolling, iDave?

Tea Yeti? A cup of tea and a piece of fruit. Or do you mean dinner? If the day after is a big sporting day then spaghetti, fish such mackerel, a side salad and fruit for desert.

Tea as in the meal you have when you get home from work!

But you've answered my question, so thanks. What about for breakfast that morning?

That leaves pulses and vegetables which are such low calorie sources of carbs I doubt anyone would cope with the portion sizes to provide enough carbs for an endurance athlete

[i]iDave you claim 2kg a week weight loss[/i]

Err. don't think he does.
More like 1-2lb per week.

[i]That leaves pulses and vegetables which are such low calorie sources of carbs I doubt anyone would cope with the portion sizes to provide enough carbs for an endurance athlete[/i]

This is why you are being called a Troll.

You know that the iDave diet isn't for endurance athletes.
Yet you post what you have.

Its the very definition of Trolling, if ever there was one.
😉

You're not very good at this are you ?.

Perhaps you should stick to your Rock n Roll dancing.

iDave you claim 2kg a week weight loss, that's over 2000 calories a day of body fat to be burnt. A small inactive person wouldn't lose that if they ate next to nothing and a typical STWer would only lose that if they were getting less than 1000 calories a day from food. Even if they lost 2kg in the first week the body would by then be in famine mode and losing more at that rate would become a painful experience.

But that doesn't happen, so what you understand about fat loss must be incorrect? Or have the iDave dieters been imagining things? Either you're wrong or their real life documented experience is wrong.

Which do you think is most likely? Your understanding is outdated or many people (not just on STW) have been imagining things?

When you understand that it's not calories in and calories out, you might start to see the light.

ton, have you been starving yourself? Are you in famine mode?

EDIT - the iDave diet is for endurance athletes also, but they would use some carbs before during and after some training and events.

New login, Solo?

[img] [/img]

That leaves pulses and vegetables which are such low calorie sources of carbs

^ This is trolling

Lentils (all per 100g)
Energy (cal) 99
Protein 7.6g
Carb 17g
Fat 0.5g

Half the calories, but twice the protein of white/whoelmeal bread. About a tenth to a fifth of the GI of white bread.

How much carb do you need a day?

[Edit] More importantly how much carb do biffers like me [b][u]NEED[/b][/u] a day?

Matt

Does consumption of too much muesli impact on one's ability to read and retain facts? I think i might switch to cheesecake for breakfast.

I reckon Edukator hasn't read the diet sheet. Otherwise he'd realise that even if one was eating a calorie deficit the day seven 'eat what you want' reward would stop it kicking in. This day would also help top up any glycogen stores a biffer might have neglected to replenish by not following the diet properly.

Jamie.
[i]Hello Solo.[/i]
❓

[i]EDIT - the iDave diet is for endurance athletes also, but they would use some carbs before during and after some training and events. [/i]

So, thats iDave diet, plus Carbs then.
But there are carbs in the iDave diet anyway.
❓ ❓

I reckon Edukator hasn't read the diet sheet.

There's a diet sheet? How do I get a copy?

2kg a week it says here on the iDave diet posted earlier on this thread:

[url= https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bw_T87IBJ5crZTE0YmU1OTMtOGM0Yy00MTk5LTk1OGUtMjY5NzY1NDk4YWNi/edit?authkey=CNeXx-wG&pli=1 ]iDave diet posted a few pages back.[/url]

It strkes me that the people using the iDave diet on this thread are endurance athletes or aspire to be endurance athletes. People on STW are generally MTBers, a sport which generally involves riding a bike for hours at a time on a regualr basis.

So, momentum, are you now prepared to retract your accusation of trolling?

matt_bl - Member

How much carb do you need a day?

The first hit on google (and that always the one with the most facts) says 180-230. So three bowls of muesli.

People on STW are generally MTBers, a sport which generally involves riding a bike for hours at a time on a regualr basis.

pmsl, stop it, i'm choking on my chips.

right, time to go off and do something awesome

There's a diet sheet? How do I get a copy?

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/training-and-diet-talk#post-3675618 ]It's here.[/url]

So, momentum, are you now prepared to retract your accusation of trolling?

But that doesn't happen, so what you understand about fat loss must be incorrect? Or have the iDave dieters been imagining things? Either you're wrong or their real life documented experience is wrong.

Which do you think is most likely? Your understanding is outdated or many people (not just on STW) have been imagining things?

In your own time..

[i]So, momentum, are you now prepared to retract your accusation of trolling? [/i]

Oh no.

Thats my opinion on you here and matt has pointed this out better than me up there ^^^^

[i]That leaves pulses and vegetables which are such low calorie sources of carbs

^ This is trolling

Lentils (all per 100g)
Energy (cal) 99
Protein 7.6g
Carb 17g
Fat 0.5g

Half the calories, but twice the protein of white/whoelmeal bread. About a tenth to a fifth of the GI of white bread.

How much carb do you need a day?

[Edit] More importantly how much carb do biffers like me NEED a day?

Matt
[/i]

2kg a week it says here on the iDave diet posted earlier on this thread:

yep.. and people do!

I've recommend this to 3 mates(mountain bikers) and all have lost around 1.5-2kg in teh first week and haven't counted any calories or restricted portion sizes

CaptJon - Member

matt_bl - Member

How much carb do you need a day?

The first hit on google (and that always the one with the most facts) says 180-230. So three bowls of muesli.

But also perfectly possible to get from vegetables and pulses!

Another key difference is the slightly larger portion sizes that can be eaten of iDave compliant food will actually fill you up and due to the higher protein content (compared to bread/potatoes etc) produce a feeling of satiety.

Matt

Me, 1500 to 2500 calories worth of carbs a day, more if I'm really acitve. I prefer getting my protein from fish, meat, cheese and other tasty things as I realy don't get on with lentils.

I've recommend this to 3 mates(mountain bikers) and all have lost around 1.5-2kg in teh first week and haven't counted any calories or restricted portion sizes

I read last night that for every gram of carbs stored in our muscles will be accompanied by 3-4g of water... is there any truth in this?

Edukator - Member
Me, 1500 to 2500 calories worth of carbs a day, more if I'm really acitve. I prefer getting my protein from fish, meat, cheese and other tasty things as I realy don't get on with lentils.

Muesli is pretty carb dense at 78g per 100g, and worth 340 calories. To get 2500 calories that is 730g of muesli. Not sure what the milk would add.

yes it is true TSY

Whole milk 66 cal/100g
Semi 46
Skim 34

Hmmm... so does the iDiet have any impact on glycogen stores in it's first week?

[i]iDave - Member

But that doesn't happen, so what you understand about fat loss must be incorrect? Or have the iDave dieters been imagining things? Either you're wrong or their real life documented experience is wrong.

Which do you think is most likely? Your understanding is outdated or many people (not just on STW) have been imagining things?

In your own time..
[/i]

ha, ha.

Edukatroll wont answer iDaves question.

😆

2kg a week it says here on the iDave diet posted earlier on this thread:

I think that comes from the experience of many many people eating like this. I don't think he made it up.

You are basing your calculations on very simple science, which the scientific community is learning is not really very accurate at all. You should also learn this.

You seem to think exercise is the only way fat can leave your body...

Personally I think we should applaud Edukator... his dogged determination makes him an ideal candidate for endurance sports... he could race an Ironman on nothing.

Edukator - Member
Me, 1500 to 2500 calories worth of carbs a day, more if I'm really acitve. I prefer getting my protein from fish, meat, cheese and other tasty things as I realy don't get on with lentils

To be honest I only added lentils as an example, other beans, chickpeas, sweet potatoes are as good if not better carb-wise. I recommend McCance and Widdowson if you need nutrient info.

I also get protein from those sources. My breakfast this morning was eggs scrambled with chorizo, puy lentils and steamed greens.

Matt

I don't put milk on my müesli CaptJon. Hot water and fruit with a natural yohurt accasionally. I like cheese, especially goat's and sheep's cheese but don't drink milk.

Obviously I don't just eat müesli; bread, pasta, pizza base, occasionally rice, fruit ... too. Could you work out how many kgs of vegetables I'd have to eat Cap'n, several kilograms no doubt when burning 4-5000 calories a day X-C skiing. You see the problem? Training with a bloated stomach is unpleasant and high intensity training with a full stomach a very bad idea. So something a little more energy dense is useful.

Edit: I eat potatoes too, Matt, but they are the iDave red list "no" category. I eat a few vegetables too, carrots, peas and French green beans (the ones picked when they a very small).

The idea that you can fool your body into thinking it's not hungry by filling your stomach with low-calorie stodge or satisfying fat is false imo for two reasons. 1/ your stomach adapts to portion size and composition. 2/ hunger is also your body's way of telling you it needs fuel and that has as much to do with all this blood sugar stuff we've been talking about as with how full you are.

With all this talk of carbs for energy, what about the paleo theory of getting a large proportion of your energy from fat? I'm not talking about "optimum" nutrition for training/racing/etc but more for an active "average" joe. Is it be possible/sensible to derive a lot of energy from fats and mainly use (simple) carbs to refuel glycogen after activity?