You should be proud that you stepped up and reacted to an awful situation.
Many would freeze through fear.
If it wasn't for people like you I probably wouldn't be here now, so thank you again.
It sounds like there wasn't much more you could have done in that situation, but if it makes you feel better, go and seek out a first aid/CPR/defib training course, although it sounds like you are already proficient in dealing with events like this.
Nothing more I can add, if that man was a relative of mine I’d be so grateful that you stepped up
Well done
You stepped up when someone needed too. well done.
May I suggest a steady bike ride somewhere pleasant, followed by a tasty beer.
You did the right thing, take solace in that.
Nothing more I can add, if that man was a relative of mine I’d be so grateful that you stepped upWell done
+ 1
Nothing but the greatest respect for what you did ..we would all like to think that under the same circumstances we could do the same ..but could we ?
Hope that in time you recover from the trauma .
The world's a better place with people like yourself in it ...please don't beat yourself up ..you tried.
What Houns says x1000.
It's difficult enough trying to assess someone who has an episode, even as a well trained first aider, but the natural reaction would be as you did, to focus on the bleeding. Even as a first aider of many years, I have hardly any real world experience (thankfully), I don't think for your average Joe it's ever easy, and there is always something you will feel you should have done.
Well done mate.
Geetee.
You can and will question what you did and didn't do. That's natural. But please don't beat yourself up about the outcome. You did respond, the vast majority of people don't.
The fact that trained paramedics tried for 45 minutes to resuscitate and didn't succeed shows that it was a lost cause from the get go. CPR rarely works on its own without the intervention of an AED and trained paramedics. It just gives the casualty a slightly better chance. If you had started CPR as he fell all you would have done is pump blood from his head wound out faster.
I'm impressed you did something. Go and speak to your doctor and ask for to speak to a councillor to get things in perspective. I've been in similar situations to you and it helped a lot.
It's the natural response when something doesn't work out to ask whether you could've done something differently that might've changed the result. You kept the guy going long enough for the pros to arrive, good work.
Houns - Member
Nothing more I can add, if that man was a relative of mine I’d be so grateful that you stepped upWell done
Well said Houns, and well done Geetee.
Had a similar one to this. Driving with the ex-wife down a road in a fairly rundown bit of Manchester. Maybe 8pm and it was dark. Drove past bus stop and there's a guy just lying there. Initial reaction was that he was pissed/stoned, but something didn't look right so I stopped the car and jumped out. As I did this a cyclist and two people passed by without stopping. Ran over and he had a big gash on his forehead which was bleeding. At first thought he'd been mugged then realised he wasn't breathing. Started CPR and at that point a medical student who was cycling past stopped and took over. I ran to look for a phone (in hindsight don't know where my mobile was, maybe I had it and wasn't thinking straight) and the first side road I went past there was a first responder Ambulance car parked up! Grabbed him and he took over and very quickly there was an Ambulance there and they took him inside and spent 40 minutes or so trying to get resuscitate. Eventually one of the paramedics came back out and said they hadn't succeeded. Massive Cardiac arrest whilst jogging (we assume, he had joggers and a t-shirt on and keys, but no ID) and according to the para was probably dead before he had even hit the ground.
I did wonder for a time if I could have done more. With time I realised (as will the OP I hope) that the fact that I stopped was a lot more than many would have done and that whether or not I immediately gave him CPR wouldn't have made the blind bit of difference.
To echo the others I commend the OP on his actions and only wish that there were more like him
OP you sound so much more prepared than most of us could ever be, you were brave enough to step up when someone needed you, its extremely admirable.
Your feelings are understandable, natural, but you put in a sterling effort & thats all that anyone could ever do, It's almost impossible to feel like you did a good job with the outcome I'm sure.
As a few others have said, I was taught to stem the bleeding first - if you do CPR on someone with a severe bleed, you're just pumping oxygenated blood out of their body.
And I can't remember the exact figure, but it was something like a 7% success rate on CPR for someone in arrest, and that's for something potentially survivable which, to my pretty much totally untrained eye, doesn't sound like this chap was in any case.
Well done for stepping up.
but every now and then he gulped for air but he was like a fish drowning on a beach.
Oh yeah, this. This happens and people think "cool, a response / he's breathing" - nope. It's called agonal breathing / respiration and it's an automated response from deep in the brain stem when you're ****ed and just about dead. The way it was originally explained to me is that it's an evolutionary legacy back from when we were fishes that only comes out in this circumstance - it wasn't the guy clinging onto life and trying to breathe, it was the guy dying and his body not quite shut down 100% just yet. They're not actually effective breaths for a mammal living in air.
The specific reason our first aid trainer told us about this was for your kinda circumstance - people feel like they failed because "he was still breathing when I got to him" - no, he really, truly wasn't.
A similar thing happened to me a few years ago.
Chap almost screamed then fell over in the Co-op car park, dropping his dinner from his Greggs bag.
I thought he'd just slipped, so I turned away, as I was sure he'd be embarrassed with someone watching. After 15 seconds or so he was still down, so I went over, and his face was going purple.
Called 999, got the instructions on how to do CPR etc. Only one person in the assembled crowd would help. Ambulance arrived pretty quickly, maybe 5 minutes, they carried on for 40 minutes or so, but couldnt do anything. Ambulance Man told me he would have been dead as he hit the ground, they suspected a massive heart attack from which there would have been no recovery even if he was in a hospital.
I still felt shit about it and thought I should have done more.
Well done geetee.
If I was that chap I'd have been happy to go out in the care of a stranger acting as you did.
Horrible experience, but be proud that your instinctive reaction was to help a fellow human in their gravest moments.
Hats off.
You're a good person.
It's called agonal breathing
Everything I'm seeing is saying that agonal breathing is the most significant sign you should start CPR immediately.
If I ever see it again I know I will not hesitate to start CPR. I didn't recognise it for what it is and consequently didn't start CPR until the emergency call handler said we needed to but that was several minutes later.
Its sounds to me like you did everything you could at the time with what you had at the time.
Regardless of the outcome that is enough. Well done.
If it ever happens to me I hope you are around.
Sounds like you did great.
As we were told on various first aid courses, if you have to start cpr the person is already dead, you might bring them back but ultimately they were dead first
You sir are a top bloke.
thank you for doing what you did. I honestly don't know if I would have the presence of mind to deal with it.
I doubt he would have survived the injury you describe plus whatever was the original cause of the collapse even if he had collapsed in front of the A&E five a side team at the station. TV portrays cpr and defines as very effective - in fact even if you get a patient back into a proper rhythm the odds are still not in their favour for survival.
In this day and age, where many of us go around with virtual blinkers on, well done for responding and trying to help.
I'm not an officially trained first aider, but that ear bleed sounds like odds were against him pulling through.
Oh and ...
... it probably wasn't, the closest I have been to being in your shoes (first on scene at overturned car on motorway with trapped driver) I would have sworn it took 20+ minutes for the fire brigade to arrive and another 10- 15 for the ambulance. First fire crew were actually on scene 6min38s from the call, and the first paramedic was 3 minutes behind him.didn't start CPR until the emergency call handler said we needed to but that was several minutes later.
Having failed to save a cyclist who keeled over in front me (along with a nurse, we were two to stop and try to do something) it took a while for it to sink in that whatever I/we had done the guy was not going to live.
So expect some soul searching, we all hate being powerless or possibly having done/not done something, but your description says to me that the poor man was doomed from the instant he hit the deck, and maybe before - why did he fall?
An oldie, but a goodie - I've never seen a better example of agonal breathing, and a great result at the end. Every time I see this vid, it gets the goosebumps and shivers going.
[url=]
geetee
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. You acted with the best possible intentions and you did everything in your power to help the chap. For that, you should be commended.
Most people in that situation would freeze and do nothing. You had the compassion and bravery to help in what sounds like an awful scenario.
I would also like to say thank you. I wish there were more people like you in this world.
And please don't punish yourself unnecessarily. I know, easier said than done...
That sounds like a truly horrible experience, and as others have said, not survivable. It sounds like he probably had a cardiac arrest before he fell and then that was further complicated by what sounds like a catastrophic head injury.
As a junior doc, I work on cardiac arrests in the hospital. They're always messy, some things are always done in the wrong order etc. And that's for a well-drilled team in a well-resourced setting. Fortunately I've never had to deal with anyone who's died outside a hospital but I imagine it's horrible.
Well done for trying.
Well done. You stayed calm, took control and acted.
When my clubmate crashed onto his head, I did the same - ordered two to block the road, another to call 999. I didn't initiate CPR immediately because he still had a strong pulse. Once the emergency services arrived I started CPR (Thank you Vinny - it really works), but in truth he was dead when he hit the ground. I suspect your man was similar.
Formal First Aid training gives you the confidence to take control, but the most likely outcome is still poor. Whatever you do, with the exception of motorcycle helmet removal, [b]you really can't make it any worse![/b]
Well done, again.
getee I think you did something truly heroic, don't be hard on yourself. It may sound glib but it is just life.
Nobeers got his links messed up; this is it:
You did good OP.
Many folk wouldn't. By what you say, there wasn't much anyone could have done.
Thanks spooky! Dunno what I did there...
Nothing to add other than you did what you could. Hope you're feeling a little better. Virtual hug from the family funk
You did your best you tried, thats all the patient could have asked for, others may have walked past very fast.
Sounds like you did an absolutely superb job but what you seen is pretty unpleasant. If you want to chat send my private message,
You can only do your best. Seems a horrible situation to be in. Dont beat yourself up about it.
I'll just echo what onzadog and Drac and others have said.
You did your best, it sounds like you reacted very well and its very unlikely anything different you could have done would have made any difference.
I'd also echo dracs offer but he would be far better at it than me. contact him if troubled by all this - It would trouble the most hardened professional among us
Nothing to add to sensible words already posted other than my best wishes
I witnessed something similar many years ago, although the fall backwards was caused by a punch. I didn't have to do a lot, other than moniter, as, although totally unresponsive, the guy still had a pulse and was breathing. Unfortunately the guy died a few days later from the massive head injury he sustained.
For a while, like you, I wondered if I could have done more, but eventually I realised that he was probably brain dead when his head hit the floor.
At the trial the judge thanked me for my efforts and outside the court the lads mothers stopped me and thanked me for trying to do something.
As others have said, the guys family will be grateful that you acted.
Geetee, well done you did a good job. I hope someone as level headed is around should I ever need assistance.
I hope this doesn’t sound too callous, but from your description the man appears to have had little chance of recovery. There is something to be said for a quick and painless death - I would not want to be treated following a huge head trauma.
As others have said, conducting immediate CPR on a previously fit, young, and completely healthy person who has suffered a sudden traumatic injury due to an accident or incident can make a difference, but CPR on someone who is in that life threatening condition due to an underlying condition, well, that's a whole different situation!
You did your best, that's all you could do, and by the sounds of it, way better than a lot (the majority probably) of people could have done. When it's your time, it's your time, but we often forget that these days when we just expect our 1st world medical science to save us.....
I have to echo the sentiments - well done geetee for showing true courage.
A couple of years ago, my dad's neighbour banged on his door, ranting something incoherent about his wife. They lived in a block of flats and their doors were across from each other. The neighbour's door was ajar so my dad went in for a look while the neighbour wandered around the hallway, still babbling.
My dad found the wife in the bathroom, half sat, leaning against the wall with some sheets around her neck tied up to the vertical towel rail. He immediately supported her, untied the sheet, got her into a recovery position (hard in a small bathroom) shouted for my mum to call 999 and administered CPR until the ambulance cam 10 minutes later. He couldn't get a pulse.
The paramedics took over but soon realized she was beyond saving. She'd broken her neck when initially jumped off the bath. It's incredible to believe how she managed it, as the towel rail was only 5ft tall. Must've just taken a dive.
They told him there was nothing he could've done, but did the right things trying. Took him a while to get over it.
This was just before his decline into the debilitating phases of stage 4 renal cancer. I watched him die a few weeks ago, which was incredibly tough knowing there was absolutely nothing I could do apart from be there for him and my mum. A great bloke who let his actions speak louder than his words. Rest in peace, dad.
Good job OP.
I have also attempted CPR and got a bad result. (On my own Dad, on an MTB ride as it happens). 14 years on and i can still remember every minute of the 90 minutes it took to get him to A&E. And it was as recently as last night that I last questionned the decisions I took on the day.
I don't really want to dwell on this long enough to read the conjecture in the other posts, so sorry if this is largely repetition. Don't be too hard on yourself. You did your best, and certainly a lot more than other people there. You were up against shocking odds.
You're doing the right thing to talk it through on here, and to try to get something positive about it i.e. The first aid course. That'll help. But don't be surprised if you still struggle a bit. Quiet moments were the worst for me eg gym, bike etc. It'll take a while to settle down in your head, maybe a few months or over a year. Without realising, my experience made me emotionally withdraw from life and almost cost me my relationship. Maybe others on here can advise better, but there must be some things you can do to help your loved ones understand what you are dealing with.
Once again, well done, and take it easy on yourself. Drop me a line on the email if you want to talk one to one. Chrispeeuk at y@hoo.
Chris
