I built up a Shand Stooshie (Columbus & Dedacciai steel) as an all rounder 7.5 years ago.
It's become a seemingly forever bike, thanks to modern standards, neutral colourscheme and some longlived component choices. So, it's another vote for steel here.
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Wears DT240-based wheels, 28-35mm tyres, PDW mudgards, Ultegra / GRX / Praxis mix, carbon finishing kit and Hope RX4s calipers - 9.7kg inc. XT pedals. It's most at home being a B-road and light touring bike in its current build, ideal for when you don't know the roads.
I also have another "bike for life" (again, steel) in the form of a Genesis Volare 931 - first bought a mere 5 years ago. Sub 8kg and so good that I bought it back after selling it. 😉
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First - if you are not even 50, you should have a number of bikes left in you. Having said that bike can last and last if you want them to.
I'd be asking myself a few questions about what it is you want before getting too into the brand and material. Is it for racing or pseudo racing (club chain gang and village sign sprints or sportives that aren't a race but actually are)? Or is it a sportive bike? Or even a cross continent self supported race/tour/bikepacker? Or is for just riding around a bit and looking nice. The blur beteeen gravel-lite, light tour and road bike is getting more and more. Without getting too fancy I'd be very interested in a Kinesis GTD V2 if buying today.
Steel bikes are lovely too. Arguably I'd trust a steel bike more than a titanium bike. Titanium is proper hard to weld without issue and there's only a few places doing it on bike frames that are big enough to do it properly imo. Enigma is somewhere I would trust however.
If I had time and my budget could handle it I'd be taking a day at the Bespoked exhibition, dreaming and chatting. Sadly, you've just missed it this year.
I'd have no hesitation in suggesting you talk to https://www.northroadcycles.com/ really happy with mine and feels just as at home on-road with a change of wheels / tyres
good people too :good:
In a "recommend what you ride" vein, the Sonder Colibri Ti is a lovely thing.
Buy it from the Yorkshire shop if you like 🙂
Gonna chime in with all those recommending steel being worth a look too…
Personally, I much prefer steel for road bikes over Titanium… Ti frames typically have a touch more compliance, but arguably feel quite dead and lifeless compared to a good steel frame. Obviously these are sweeping generalisations, and you can make a steel frame feel dead and lifeless or make a Ti frame feel lovely and whippy if you know what you’re doing, but more often than not, what I have said rings true.
I have ridden a few Ti road frames, all fairly forgettable to be honest. I currently own a Condor Super Acciaio Disc which might be giving 1lb away to the best Ti frames (it’s giving 2lb away to carbon!) but it’s such a fun, exciting bike to ride, yet still provides that magic carpet ride that you really only get with the best steel frames and I have never experienced with Ti.
In a “recommend what you ride” vein, the Sonder Colibri Ti is a lovely thing.
I went for a look at that, but the straight/unbutted tubing put me off.
#MyProblem
Sevens can be built to be as stiff or flexible as you like. I went with their default settings as at the time didn't know what I wanted.
I'd rather ride a Seven with Centaur than an Enigma with Record
I’d rather ride a Seven with Centaur than an Enigma with Record
I've just realised I exist in a world where that sentence makes sense, and it scares me.
3rd to chip in "a Sonder Colibri Ti is a lovely thing"
Yes, it has straight gauge tubing, but it's all about diminishing returns. Spend the extra on a lovely set of wheels and types and you will appreciate them more than the butted tubing. It's not for life, but it does clean up lovely and that scrape down the side of the café or other bike leaning on yours really does not do any damage a scotch pad will not buff out.
For fancy steel look at :
Fairlight Strael
https://fairlightcycles.com/product/strael3-deposit/?v=79cba1185463
Shand Rizello
https://shandcycles.com/shop/bikes/rizello-disc/
I would also put a vote in for Mason Cycles for fancy steel and titanium options.
OP, what road bike have you got at the moment?
I own 4 titanium-framed bikes - a Colnago, XACD custom road/gravel and two by Waltly - 29+ and fat bike. You can't really butt ti tubing, you can only make the middle thinner by grinding it down, saves about 100g /frame - not really worth the effort IMO. I like the ride of titanium for the way it mutes the chatter of a rough road - when I raced, I had lighter, stiffer carbon bikes but with the bike chattering around it's sometimes harder to get the power down if the back wheel is skipping about and it beats you up after a while. More recent trends for running bigger tyres at lower pressures clearly helps here.
I also like the ride of a classic, skinny tubed steel framed bike - but most modern, mass produced frames have to meet certain test criteria that can make them heavier and dead-feeling. A huge benefit of going custom is being able to choice tubes sizes to suit the rider's weight/needs.
Having owned a few ti brands, I would not hesitate to recommend Seven. Every bike is custom, every tube tuned to how you want it to ride and the workmanship and warranty are outstanding.
Moots are vastly overpriced IMHO and the finish is difficult to keep looking good. The Seven brushed finish looks great year after year and is easy to buff up.
The only caveat that a few people have mentioned is the ever changing 'standards', although with flat mount brakes, 142 spacing, a 44mm head tube and a T47 bb, you should be OK for a few years. The only unknown right now is if UDH and T-Type transmissions might become the norm over the next few years on the road too, and not many brands (Seven included) currently have that option.
Thanks for all the input sorry I’ve been away.
My road bike at the moment is a Trek Emonda. It’s been great but now feels ok. I ride weekends with a mate for 50-80 miles and during the week. One trip abroad riding somewhere nice in Europe. That’s it, no racing anymore, no chain gangs anymore. Simply just enjoying the ride. That’s why I fancy something different that’ll really enjoy.
I’m in Harrogate and not thought Prologue would do Enigma. Nice.
Just looked at Sturdy frames. Simply beautiful!
I've got an Enigma Etape - two and bit years old, so 32-34mm clearance, bolt axles etc. Superb bike - a super comfy cruiser. A bit of flex in the BB...go for the Evoke or a Signature model if you want something racier or stiffer.
As per others, I also have a Fairlight Secan gravel bike and I do think that (as an 853 tubed steel bike) it rides a little nicer than the Etape...slightly stiffer in the BB and has a slightly different and better 'zing' to the frame, and is equally as comfy.
You can't go wrong with either to be fair. And I do prefer the looks of the Enigma.
Ditto on the Fairlight. I had a Secan and it was one of the nicest riding bikes I have ever owned.
Not as glamorous as some. Not a 50th Birthday once in a lifetime type custom bike. But very hard to beat.
I've had a couple: a Litespeed back in the day and an Enigma more recently. Both looked great. But... they're not as light or stiff as you might expect. And I worried about cracks and longevity. As others have suggested, a nice steel bike-for-life like the Fairlight or a custom (Saffron etc) might be the ticket. All things considered, my current carbon Aethos is superior in every way to my titanium bikes.
Bought a titanium gravel bike (Planet X Tempest Ti). Not sure I could describe any difference between that and 531, CrMo, or mild steel frames I've ridden in the past. Looks cool though. Am planning to sell imminently to fund MTB upgrade.
I rode with some new folk last night. The blokes who were 70 and 65 were at least as fast and probably faster than me, so that's giving me inspiration to see how long I can keep riding for :yes:
I have an xl tempest with hunt wheels, force/rival axs and beautiful USE post and bars…Oh; and purple hope headset and seat collar. Probably my favourite bike and the one I use most. Barely over 8kg as well.
You can’t really butt ti tubing, you can only make the middle thinner by grinding it down, saves about 100g /frame – not really worth the effort IMO
My Lynskey 456Ti would disagree - it IS worth the effort 🙂
I rode with some new folk last night. The blokes who were 70 and 65 were at least as fast and probably faster than me, so that’s giving me inspiration to see how long I can keep riding for
I'm 60 and did my first 300k at the weekend, couldn't keep the pace of some of the older blokes (and then find out later that one of them is an ex-Scottish national champ...), but did it - 15 hours elapsed with 13.5 hours riding.
The longest I'd ever ridden was 100 miles, a few years ago - but regularly do +7-8hr gravel & MTB days. Entered a 120k in May, did 130k eventually on my gravel bike. Then did my first 200k in June after treating myself to carbon road wheels & slicks, enjoyed it so entered the 300k.
I'll stick to 200k's and less from now, still looking at the Fairlight Strael though.
They all ride like a decent steel frame 😉
SO...
As good as steel, but shinier? Shut up and take my money 😉
Usually lighter than steel too
I'm in a similar boat to the OP, mid-40s, rolling about country lanes on a carbon ego-chariot, not bothered about racing but mulling a last big road bike in the next few years, but I'm increasingly drawn to skinny steel (but with modern standards and parts in mind).
And then the cross-over there with gravel bikes gets me mulling something along those lines.
It seems like every off the peg Steel road frame I find has a Ti sibling for 1.75x the price and a 200g weight saving, so perhaps weirdly if you want a Ti frame look for a steel one and you'll probably find a Ti version too.
O god now I’m getting my head turned by steel! Haha
Anyone used this chap?
https://feathercycles.cc/pricing
A pal of mine has had a bike built by Feather recently - it is a thing of absolute beauty. Light, too.
If you remove the British requirement, Litespeed are phenomenally good. I’ve now owned 4 and they just ride better than other Ti bikes. I’ve owned Merlin, Enigma (close) Kinesis, PX/OO, Cove, Cotic, Titus, etc. The only comparable quality I’ve had is an Indy Fab.
With near identical builds, my T5G rides so much better than my Tempest commuter.
As good as steel, but shinier? Shut up and take my money 😉
Until it needs a repair. Easier by far to find a frame builder who can repair steel. I had a Ti frame once, sold it and put all the bits on a steel frame; quite a bit heavier, but no qualms about absolutely thrashing the thing. Ti frame was a Hummer, steel frame an Inbred 567.
I’ve also got an Inbred 853 SS, with carbon forks and bars, it’s feather light, and I’d never swap it for anything Ti.
Of course, they are mountain bikes, but if I was going for a gravel bike, it’d have a steel frame, something like 853, or stainless.
In a “recommend what you ride” vein, the Sonder Colibri Ti is a lovely thing.
While I did earlier comment about non-butted tubes I had to take a trip down south yesterday, conveniently passing an Alpkit store, so I popped in.
They had a couple of Colbri Ti's in, a L and an XL. Chap put me some pedals on and I had a try-for-size.
XL fitted nice. Frame looks lovely and at £3200 for the Ultegra Di2 model (very) well priced too - many comparable Ti frames from online-type companies are +£4k.
For £49 you can book an all-day demo, getting the money back if you buy. I'm busy this weekend but will get one booked. I'll report back my thoughts.
Those Feather bikes look lovely on the sample page. Not cheap mind. But if you can afford it....
What stands out to me on that site are the variety of styles of frame - not just a tweak of dimensions to a default model. I suppose the only counter you could make is that you are buying a prototype. An off the peg will have been through a longer R&D process.
I guess it's deciding why you want custom. You are an odd shape, you've got unusual needs; a funky paint job; or is it just you want something a bit fancy. Or it might be that want to be part of the process and support smaller makers.
carbon ego-chariot
Great phrase.
Got to say, keep hearing great things about Secan steel bikes. Maybe when the gravel bike needs updating
TiRed 'have you tried both? My Merlin had Centaur, the Enigma has Record (including track cranks). There is little difference in ride. They all ride like a decent steel frame ;-)'
I have, used to ride a preaquisition Merlin, but I'm not comparing Enigma with Merlin but with a Seven which is not a like for like comparison in my opinion, had six months on an Enigma just preferred the Seven.
You ridden a Seven?
A few months ago I would have been very interested in Ti for a new road bike but am now having significant second thoughts over the suggested lack of environmental advantage over a good steel frame.
I'll be 60 this year and and am considering a new complete road bike for longer & faster rides; not races. For my 50th, I bought a Genesis CdeF R725 frame, which currently runs flat bars and is on 32 spoke wheels, making it a good touring bike. Hope X2 brakes, decent spread of 3x10 gearing and it's functional and reliable. It's not light but I can ride it for 12 hours without too much discomfort. I'm considering a 'Road' bike and the Fairlight Secan/Strael are firmly in my sights at present, perhaps with lighter wheels. I worry that for example the Strael might feel overly short for my brain; I'd be a 56R most likely, so wheelbase is a scary looking 1000mm. reviews suggest that it will ride really nicely, lighter and livelier than my Genesis. Does anyone have experience of both Strael & Secan, for comparisons sake?
Priorities being reasonably light, reasonably quick, reasonably comfortable- a nice place to be on a long day ride..
I suspect I'd go with a mechanical 105/GRX 2x12 build and maybe those lightish wheels.
RE steel and Ti, I've had a couple of US-made Ti custom road bikes but I have a 953 frame which has a nicer ride feel overall. It has pretty much the same parts and geometry as the Ti bikes did but there's something I like about the ride Vs the Ti frames. But it's very subtle. Not saying one is better than the other, just that it gets very close either way.
If I was getting a custom frame now it'd be 853 main tubes, with 931 or 921 stainless stays for that classic 3/4 chromed rear sort of look. It'd be a tad heavier than the 953 frame but there's loads of choice of UK builders who could do a great job with those materials and add the details that make it a true custom bike.
Love my Secan, and the new ones (and the Straels) have modular dropouts so you can change hanger type which should future-proof them.
That said, if I was looking for something truly special, I passed this place in Gent recently and the bikes look absolutely phenomenal https://www.jaegher.be/
Spa cycles in Harrogate will always do you a deal my mate has two titanium frames spec'd the way he wanted from them at decent money , his wife as well . She had a bike made by Ricky Feather but the wait almost killed her , it is absolutely gorgeous though to be fair, although not Ti.
Have a read of this before you decide: https://www.rodbikes.com/articles/steel-vs-titanium/steel-vs-titanium.html
I'd avoid a lot of the off the shelf titanium bikes as they're as heavy/heavier than their steel counterparts, and are far more costly. The Sonder mentioned previously as an example; the Fairlight is lighter, cheaper and probably "feels" a better ride.
Yes. Had a v1 steel Secan gravel bike and a titanium Sonder Camino gravel bike. Secan a much nicer ride all round. Well designed butted steel frame > Plain gauge Ti frame.
A lot of the Ti frames are made in same place in China so much of a muchness. Had a Ti Kinesis Tripster which was lovely, but many cracked so at 95kgs got rid.
Been building my Goldrush today. The frame is pretty impressive. Can't comment on the ride but I'm pleased by it's looks
Also I will probably get kicked for this, and I dont really care, these days try not to buy anything from China due to their genocide to the uighurs and also their support for the genocide in Ukraine.
No need to get kicked out, up to you where you want to buy from and why, although the companies based in China are not necessarily part of that genocide but China are profiting overall from people buying stuff from them I suppose.
Going down that path you also need to check where the tubing is coming from and what you think of that country though, but again not a bad thing to do.
For fancy steel look at :
Fairlight Strael
I don't quite get why Fairlight frames are so expensive.
Anyway, still riding my 2010, Lynskey-made Planet X road bike, now with Enve forks and it still rides beautifully. In an ideal world it would maybe have more tyre clearance and disc brakes, but most of the time it just works really well. I think sometimes people get overly hung up on specifications and the latest industry standards instead of just appreciating something for what it is.
