I think it's not just on the bike that you need to look at. If you want to improve then you have to look at everything from what you eat, what you drink, including alcohol, how much sleep you're getting, what stresses you have to deal with, and examine your coping strategies for those. There's no point in setting up a turbo to get those few extra watts if you are 15kgs overweight, it's not going to translate to getting you up that sustained climb. Likewise there's no point doing hours of Z2 after a skinful of booze the night before, or not enough sleep; you're just wasting your time.
It does depend on your goals..
If it's just to be a bit faster to keep up with the group, then riding with the group consistently will get you there. It'll get easier. Riding with faster people always helps, as you'll do more work than if solo, you'll dig deeper, and if you recover well, you'll get fitter.
On the point of turbo and structured training, I like TrainerRoad. It's simple and smart, with a lot of cool features, such as apative training. BUT, their default plans start with sweet spot base, a lot of people find they burn out quite quickly. I used their sweetspot base, general build plans to great effect when I was racing.
TrainerRoad have now added some polarised base plans, which do look good. I'm going to run through one in the Autumn.
https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/polarized-plan-updates/83044
If you picked the low volume polarised base plan, it's only 3 rides per week; two Z2 and one VO2MAX. I'd do that, and if dry, perform the z2 rides outside, making Sunday a longer cafe ride (if grim, Netflix on the turb). That leaves a couple of days spare for some strength work, and a rest day or two.
To improve, consistency is key, with some kind of progression.
Also, "to improve cycling performance" really look into on the bike hyrdation/fueling. If you're under carbed, that's an easy win. I stopped taking pocket snacks, and now add carbs and electrolytes to my bottles instead, adjusted appropriately for the ride I've planned, ie. quite a lot for a balls out club ride, just electrolytes for a Z2.
Unless you are trying to race just ride more and enjoy the ride. All this zone this and zone that stuff just turns what should be fun into a chore
I think it depends on the individual. I like mountain biking, I live somewhere hilly with lots of ups and downs and I find trundling unsatisfying, if you want to ride short, sharp technical climbs, you need to be able to go anaerobic repeatedly and recover. As per Joe Friel's book, if you don't use/train your top end, you lose it, hence the huge number of older cyclists trundling around at one moderate speed.
That's fine if you enjoy pottering around, but for a relatively small amount of more structured work - high intensity intervals a couple of times a week - you can keep more top-end and for me, that means I enjoy actual riding a shedload more.
You don't have to devote your life to training in zones, just make a commitment to do a couple of quick, more structured sessions. Shoot me now, but I like the feeling of hammering stuff, it's confirmation that I'm not entirely dead.
I'm not saying everyone should or must do that, it depends how you're wired, but personally I find a relatively small time investment makes my unstructured rides a lot more enjoyable. The Friel book is great for general principles of what happens as you age and some simple ways of slowing that process. It doesn't mean I never have easy rides or potter, but it's nice to have a choice. YMMV, but you can do both.
Fitness and enjoyment go hand in hand. If I'm feeling sluggish the ride is definitely less fun. A great ride is when it all comes together.
Fitness and enjoyment go hand in hand. If I’m feeling sluggish the ride is definitely less fun.
100%
When you'll feeling good and strong, the rides are significantly more fun.
It's fantastic that you're looking to maintain and improve your cycling fitness, even as you progress through different life stages.
Start racing. I began at 45 and was regularly dropped. I made second cat at 51. Plenty of masters racing. It's a lot of fun too.
Little and often.
Don't worry about how you feel (because most of your riding will be in 'Z2'). Noone feels good every day. But the person who shows up 'every day' wins the game. Just think of Z2 as 'can I have a constant conversation at this pace? but also need to breathe through my mouth, just not heavily. Yes: You're in Z2. No: Work easier or harder respectively.
Commuting as others have suggested would be a wonderful way to it if it's possible
80% of your time in Z2. 20% (or less) above it, if you wish, builds aerobic base (with the 20% vo2/z4 building the higher end of 'performance'). That ~20% can be races or some kind of competition, as some have suggested. Rather than having to slog yourself solo round grim intervals - but you might enjoy that! Alternatively MTB is forced intervals where you're theoretically having 'fun'! ;).
Strength & conditioning - subscribe to Dynamic Cyclist or join a few local gym classes. Strength, conditioning, mobility, stretching. Try hit a couple of them each week. Even for just 30 mins. Plenty on youtube for free. It'll enable you to ride injury free and continue into life with strength.
I'm late 50's, just ride more - although according to my OH I ride too much 🙂
Having different bikes works well too, for example; I often go out on the gravel bike if on my own, and if it's mucky just stick to the back roads and hardpacked lanes. MTB is normally with pals.
@monkeycmonkeydo Can you talk more about the McGuff approach.
Doable at home? Gym only? Why so keen on it (beyond it being quick, presumably)? Sustainable for the long term if it's super high intensity?
Thank you 🙂
the huge number of older cyclists trundling around at one moderate speed.
this is definitely a thing. I mean good on them absolutely, but I'm thinking of folks who then get a bit frustrated when they put on a bit of weight and slow down slightly more... And doing more of the same is unlikely to help.
(If they're happy with that, social/fun rides etc that'a great of course. Just if they're not happy then there's plenty of advice on this thread.)
Im with BadlyWiredDog. Do some short sharp fast rides once in while, get your heart rate up in intervals.
I do old skool PT training in the park once every couple weeks, but that's because I like it. Shuttle runs interspersed with various versions of press-ups, core exercises, burpees, squats, star jumps etc. Also singlespeed on the road more recently instead of mtbiking because the trails are getting overgrown and muddy due to the amount of rain. Around here it's all undulating lanes so that forces intervals much the same way as mtbiking does. My av. speeds have gone up so something is working. Riding to work 5days a week, brisk 2 mile walk every lunchtime, riding to the shops, an hours yoga session once a week, it all adds up.
High Intensity Training (note - no interval in there) a la Doug McGuff is very appealing. There is a lot of science to back it up, it's safe and working out once a week and still getting all the gains makes it hard to resist.
I've had two bashes at it about 10 years apart and it's definitely not for me. Firstly, I like to workout in the morning and the workouts left me utterly destroyed for the rest of the day. Like really struggling to stay awake in the afternoon. The most recent attempt also sent me into depression. So, never again, for me.
However it might work for you, but for it to work properly you need to be prepared to go to a dark place and become good friends with pain. I don't care if my current training is less effective as I actually enjoy it.
Having said this, there's a lot of value in understanding more about the HIT approach, which places a lot of focus on injury prevention.
Take up running. It will do more for your fitness than cycling will
this - My running got faster when I started riding more, so I ran more and my riding got faster
What worked for me ..is to do hills
and also this - it's easy to cruise (riding or running) on the flats.
I was pretty fit and quick up until I was 45 when I had a really bad RTA (commuting) and got my spine broken. I was doing about 5,000 a year, commuting etc.
Next two years I did about 700, mainly off road, and increased to only 1200 pa for 2018 and 2019. 2020 saw me getting out more (lockdown), and 2021 returned to some road riding, getting my miles upto 2000 then in 2022 2,600 miles with some commuting involved. I'm likely to be around 3,500 to 4,000 this year, baring catching covid (knocked 8 weeks off end of last year).
I'm 53 now and not as fit as I was but managed two 8 hour days MTB'ing along the Pennine Bridleway with some mates. My back causes some issues (bloody lucky I can walk TBH), but I can still ride the road bikes OK. I commute 20 miles return 3 days a week, and then out on road bikes, CX or MTB at least once or twice a week on top of the commute. I never do big miles, so a couple of hours is fine as got stuff to do at home.
Shifting a few KG and cutting down on alcohol and food has certainly helped. I don't tend to eat a lot in the evenings.
Fortunately/unfortunately, the lads I ride with do a bit of everything (road/CX/MTB and commute), but none of us will be getting an e-bike - all prefer to suffer and batter ourselves.
Youtube's your friend @reluctantlondoner.Me,I just use my local outdoor gym and adjust the program as best I can.I usually try to push it till I fail.That seems to be the point of it.
All of the above is YMMV, don’t take anyone here as gospel especially as there are opinions as opposed to advice, you need to find what works for you. Because over 30-ish we have an ever declining body, at our age it’s generally:
- Intervals weekdays
- long Rides at weekends / when you have the time
- stretches and body / weight exercises.
- a higher amount of dietary carbs / good nutrition and lower alchohol content.
Finally, however you chose to define a goal be it racing, an event, general fitness or something else make sure you are enjoying it. Forced training, nutrition and “going without” time, food, beer, friends, family or whatever in the name of “training” can lead to a lot of misery.
I find trundling unsatisfying, if you want to ride short, sharp technical climbs, you need to be able to go anaerobic repeatedly and recover.
Yes - and I can do so from my training consisting of "just ride more miles" because in those miles comes climbs - both long and short.
Good post Kryton
Yes – and I can do so from my training consisting of “just ride more miles” because in those miles comes climbs – both long and short.
Good post Kryton
Yeah, that's the point, there's no 'right answer', it's whatever works for you. There's no prescriptive answer.
What works for me is doing an occasional high intensity interval session alongside my normal riding because I find it makes my other rides more enjoyable and I enjoy hard intervals too. But that's just me. Like I said in my earlier post 'I’m not saying everyone should or must do that, it depends how you’re wired, but personally I find a relatively small time investment makes my unstructured rides a lot more enjoyable.'
Everyone's different, mentally and physiologically, what we have in common is that as we age, we get slower and less efficient, but you can slow the rate at which that happens.
If you're feeling old at just 51 you really need to improve flexibility before you really are old. Try some yoga a couple of times a week . Try different teachers; they all have their preferences so mix it up a bit. It'll do very little for your aerobic capacity but your joints and muscles, without bulking up, will thank you.
Nice thing about current ideas for +50 athletes is that same recipe is supposed to help with longevity and wellbeing in later years. It is not more complicated than doing as much as Z2 as is possible, weekly or once in 10 days a HIT session and strength work through the year. Of course some sensible diet, stress management and good sleep are needed as well.
IMO and IME too much focus on interval work is counterproductive, at first those sessions will provide really good results but that can be just peaking existing aerobic base.
IMO and IME too much focus on interval work is counterproductive, at first those sessions will provide really good results but that can be just peaking existing aerobic base.
Noob gains are awesome though, feels good to rocket the ftp in the early days of training.
But yeah once you're settled it's different. Crushing intervals on the turbo is Big man ting. No one should be doing this on the reg unless they're very motivated and focussed on a performance goal.
It’s hard to argue with TJ for me
Are you sure?
Noticed my lawnmower felt light today.Three cheers for Dr Mcguff.A man of many talents.
Not everyone things Dr Mcguff is the way to righteousness tho'.... you'll only get so far with HIT and no base.
I appreciate this thread is kind of coming to the end of its usefulness but I agree with Kryton's post. The OP has asked the question on a forum so the responses are a mixture of specific training advice, underlying principles and personal experience.
My "top-tip" if the OP wants to get faster is to pick an event that you want to do and then follow a training plan tailored to the amount of hours/week you are willing to commit to it. Personally I like TrainerRoad to generate my plans but there are tonnes of options.
In terms of how to train there are different options (sweet-spot, polarised, 80/20 whatever) but they're all proven to work. If your destination is to get fitter then any of these methods will pretty much get you to that destination near-enough if you commit to them so just pick whichever suits you best.
Whichever you do, the underlying principles are the same and won't change. More volume gets you fitter, proper recovery, nutrition and sleep are required and gradually increasing the load so you don't plateau. Plus, as everyone says, strength and conditioning will really help.
Everything else is just noise or personal preference really. If people don't like doing intervals and prefer riding hilly routes then that's fine but the answer to the question of "what's the most efficient way to get fitter on a bike" is definitely riding properly structured intervals, one way or another.
you’ll only get so far with HIT and no base.
Very much this.
I never really appreciated how much my daily Zone 2 commute (30 minutes each way so 5 hours a week) contributed to my overall fitness and ability to ride my mountain bike for any significant time. I was just going to work and didn't think it was contributing anything. I changed job just under a year ago and my commute is now 10 minutes.
My exercise became purely mountain biking and strength work and now I'm great for up to 1 hour but then I start to feel shit very quickly.
I'm trying to introduce 45 minutes Zone 2 into my daily commute (basically taking a detour on the way home) and hopefully the longer mtb rides will start to become easier.
imo, if you do some mtb or strength work (or both) that's enough intensity work and you don't need to do add extra in.
I do a 200km audax ride every month to qualify for an award called Randonneur Round the Year. Currently 8 months into my fourth year.
This motivates me to get out and do a big ride regularly and the rides tend to be quite sociable and can introduce you to new routes and fuelling stops.
Entry normally costs less than £10 and there are lots of rides all round the country.
https://www.audax.uk/choose-a-ride/calendar-events/
The pace can very from intense to very leisurely. There is a time limit to complete the ride but the lower limit is quite generous.
Obviously one ride per month will not transform your fitness but having a regular monthly target can be good for motivation.
Min 90 min rides on trainer or with power meter in zone two for 80% of your workouts.
Outside of that HiiT or over unders.
12 weeks and you be good.
I'm just 50.
Been sharpening up my fitness in advance of a big trip and I'm mainly just riding more, but putting in a few sprints and climbing efforts.
It's working well and I'm feeling the gainz.
