[Closed] Those big cats out in the woods...

Big Cats in the British Countryside?

You'll be claiming there's a creature living in Loch Ness next 🙄

( 😉 )

am convinced there are big cats living wild here in uk.when the law got passed to make it illegal for (idiots) to have big cats as pets (in the 60's).am sure that more than one may have been released into the wilds of Exmoor e.t.c.from the evidence of paw prints that have been recorded also (which were not made by your domestic house cat 😉 i for one welcome our new big cat masters 😉 hail pussicus giganticus 🙂

You have to really watch out for Mountain Lions in many parts of the US, come across a couple of the last 10-15 years.

i think they should release more dangerous animals into wild areas, it might stop humans going there and ruining it

It's not a case of it they exist in the UK, it's how many.

Yeah - I'm a believer too 🙂

[i]"The journey of this mountain lion is a testament to the wonders of nature and the tenacity and adaptability of this species," Mr Esty said

Daniel Esty, commissioner of the state's Department of Energy and Environmental Protection.[/i]

Totally avoiding the sad fact that this poor cat's journey ended with it being flattened by an SUV.

The lesson learned here, is not so much about the tenacity and adaptability of nature, but more to do with dwindling naural habitat that unique species such as these cats face. Perhaps Mr Esty from the Department of Environmental Protection would have taken this media opportunity to do the right thing, and highlight the more immediate threats that all native big cats in America face.

What on earth IS a "Sport Utility Vehicle" anyway?

I've seen a wallaby in the Peak District!

If that lion ventured away from its home, how many others do the same thing?

In the UK - whilst I'm sure there's the odd escaped big cat prowling around, I don't see how there can be enough of them to have a breeding population, especially as the sightings often don't seem to be cats of the same species.

I have never seen a large pussy in the woods!

To me, this was interesting because even where they are a native species, the puma is solitary, ellusive, range very widely and find it very easy to avoid contact with humans.

Yes, the US is huge compared to the UK, and has vasts expanses of forest and other wilderness areas - but also, conservation, outdoor activities, and in particular, hunting are very big. These sorts of activities would / shoud bring people into contact with cats, in the same way that is argued for the UK. The reality is that this species is adept at keeping iteslf to itself...

ETA -

whilst I'm sure there's the odd escaped big cat prowling around, I don't see how there can be enough of them to have a breeding population,

Looking at the wikipedia entry for the puma, they are attributed with being able to maintain a breeding population based on very low and widely dispersed populations.

Think about it - for a solitary creature that lives and hunts alone and by stealth, it's pretty much a given that they need to be able to hook up with each other even over the large territories that they roam. Scent marking etc I guess.

You can see the puma caught by a farmer at Cannich in 1979, stuffed and mounted in Inverness museum. It was clearly a captive release, although they never discovered where it came from.

What on earth IS a "Sport Utility Vehicle" anyway?

A vehicle that's a sporty one and can be used as a utility vehicle.(pickup with nice alloys?)
Maybe a vehicle that is a utility vehicle for sports (bike transporter?!)

What on earth IS a "Sport Utility Vehicle" anyway?

Popular US vehicle type - think RangeRover, but way bigger, cruder and less economical

Someone ran over a big cat near Ludlow once - Lynx or something.

SUV = 4x4 or faux 4x4. So anything from a Honda CRV to a Ford Excursion.

my best mate and his wife and child stumbled across a puma carcass that thier dog had picked up the sent of,

not saying where, but they took a mobile phone photo and popped into the forestry commision hut on the way home, the rangers were not supprised and told them to keep schtum about it as they didn't want to have truck loads of hunters in their woods every night.

same woods same area of said wood where my dad always told me the 'black cat' lived in the seventies,

my dad aslo saw a 'black cat' cross the road in front of his lorry in 1997 near oxford,

The evidence suggests the cat had made the longest-ever recorded journey of a land mammal, scientists say.

i think mark beaumont went further 😛

Mrs M's cousin saw a black puma / panther a few years back in the FoD.
She's a farmer and the puma was on their land so the size was obvious, and she knows the difference between big dogs, wild boar & other animals of the same size.

Nearly sh@t myself one early morning (5:30ish) riding across Balmore Golf club, saw a large cat like object cross the track in front of me.

At the rate it was going I figured it had been scared off by me so wouldn't bother me.

I did pick up the pace a bit though....

I have my doubts about anything in the FoD.My uncle was a FC ranger, mostly game, for 50 years and spent most of his like in the woods. Never seen a sign of one. Shed loads of Muntjac though which look like a cat.

I like the idea though. More would be nice. Could we have wolf as well?

Whilst I have never seen a big cat I have also never caught anyone dogging in a lay by, which is rife apparently, and therefore I have an open mind.

I've seen a wallaby in the Peak District!

I've seen a wallaby in Wallasey!

I haven't really but there's a garden at Rivington with a couple of them boinging about! I thought I was seeing things.

Big cats in the wild. Yep. After the dangerous animals act in the 70s, loads of people dumped their pet cheetahs and cougars.

There was a guy near us who travelled around in his work van with a leopard in the passenger seat. No shit.

There was a guy near us who travelled around in his work van with a leopard in the passenger seat

Was he called Billy Smart???

I have hiked and biked throughout the mountain west here in the USA for almost 40 years and have seen exactly 2 mountain lions---extremely solitary and elusive. Here in Albuquerque, 2 have been hit by cars within the city limits this year. One was older and in poor health and the other a young cat. Due to the drought this year, food supply is scarce and ones in ill health or inexperienced hunters seem to gravitate to the city where the supply of dogs and cats for lunch (not to mention garbage cans) is pretty abundant.
Something my father told me when I was a kid is don't worry about the mountain lion you see--worry about the one you don't see.

Night riding through a local forest a few years back. Rounded a corner and found a series of eyes reflected back at us in the light. All but one pair of eyes fled immediately (deer). The remaining pair were lower down, a little away from the pack that fled and stood stock still looking in our direction as we passed.

That certainly upped our cadence!

Further to above post---here in New Mexico, the state is approx.
121,500 sq. miles in area and the estimated mountain lion population is 2500-3000, so about 1 lion per 48 sq. miles. You'd think we would see more, but as said above---extremely elusive. Kind of makes one pedal harder/faster out in the remote areas.

My folks own a couple of Bengal's, they're quite big for domestic cats, but then they also look like leopards not black cats.

Muntjac look like a cat 😯

That's a classic , 😀

Any animals released in the 60's and early 70's would be dead by now. My mates Dad came over from Canada with a pro tracker a few years ago to make a programme about big cats for channel 4. All the paw prints they saw and photos of prints they were given were from large dogs. As he said, if they're out there they have to eat, sh1t and walk and after 2 months going around Exmoor and Bodmin there was no evidence at all.

I've seen a wallaby in the Peak District!

well documented that there are/have been wallabies and caipubara (sp) roaming the peaks

riding across Balmore Golf club,

That's slightly alarming - I've read about the sighting by Bob Sharpe up on Meikle Bin, but I wasn't aware there had been sightings lower down. Wife was out walking the dogs a couple of weeks ago in the woods on the north side of Milton of Campsie when both the dogs started to get really spooked about something in the undergrowth - normally they chase anything that moves, but this time they were growling and pacing back and forth. the wife could hear occasional slight rustling and started to get a bit weirded out herself, so legged it out onto more open ground smartish. I didn't really attach much significance to it at the time, but maybe I'll be a little more careful up that way in future 😯

Used to do a lot of solo night riding up in the mountains and foothills, and always hearing animals and seeing eyes shining or fleeting shapes crossing the trail---really pretty spooky and, in retrospect, probably not the best thing to have been doing.
The common sense that comes with age and the protestation of Mrs. Busydog finally put an end to that.

ericemel - Member
I've seen a wallaby in the Peak District!

Me to!

Also seen what I thought at the time (about 10 years ago) was a big cat but maybe I was mistaken.

I've just finished reading Ben's Zoo by Benjamin Mee.

He relates how he was driving back to his zoo (in 2007/8, near the 24/12 course in Devon) when him and his passengers had a clear siting of a puma. They rushed back to the zoo expecting to find one of his animals missing and they were both there. The older keepers weren't surprised and told him that the wild pumas off the moors were attracted by the on-heat caged pumas - there was often evidence of wild pumas having visited the zoo.

So I'd accept that as a sighting from people who know exactly what a puma looks like. He could even pinpoint it as a young male.

boriselbrus - Member
if they're out there they have to eat, sh1t and walk and after 2 months going around Exmoor and Bodmin there was no evidence at all.

^^ that's the normal response - no sightings, poo or tracks = no big cats. The other way to look at it is that very few people in the UK actually venture into a puma's territory or know what they're looking at. I'd guess that the majority of people in the UK have never seen a live wild badger or otter, but that certainly doesn't mean that they aren't there? Most people don't wander around looking at poo or footprints so that sort of evidence is going to be very rare.

I'd suggest that a handful of wardens may never see any evidence of cats because you are looking at such a large area and such a small number of experts. AND presumably, a miniscule population of cats.

Two of my fellow MTBers - educated and intelligent types - have related to me how they saw lynx type animals in forests in south Wales.

Sorry for the ramble, I'm trying to type this in work!

qwerty - Member
i think they should release more dangerous animals into wild areas, it might stop humans going there and ruining it

This is done in Scotland.

Large population of Neds around Loch Lomond during peak drinking/shagging season.

One sighting here of a black feline thing the size of a lab within the M25, strolling along a pavement in deepest, darkest amazonian Weybridge early on a Sunday morning (obviously out to fetch the papers).
The so-called Surrey puma aint no puma, could have been a panther?

"I've seen a wallaby in Wallasey!"

I Lived in Wallasey for twenty odd years, I'm quite furry,I've got a tiny head and I'm quite round and have deformed feet and ears.....It was probably me.

"well documented that there are/have been wallabies and caipubara (sp) roaming the peaks"

Dunno about the Capybura, but the wallabies were released by a zoo (can't remember which one, if anybody can be bothered to look it up it's quite well documented)during the Second World war.

As he said, if they're out there they have to eat, sh1t and walk and after 2 months going around Exmoor and Bodmin there was no evidence at all.

The cougar (Puma concolor), also known as puma, mountain lion, mountain cat, catamount or panther, depending on the region, is a mammal of the family Felidae, native to the Americas. This large, solitary cat has the greatest range of any large wild terrestrial mammal in the Western Hemisphere,[3] extending from Yukon in Canada to the southern Andes of South America. An adaptable, generalist species, the cougar is found in every major American habitat type. It is the second heaviest cat in the Western Hemisphere, after the jaguar. Although large, the cougar is most closely related to smaller felines and is closer genetically to the Domestic cat than to true lions.

A capable stalk-and-ambush predator, the cougar pursues a wide variety of prey. Primary food sources include ungulates such as deer, elk, moose, and bighorn sheep, as well as domestic cattle, horses and sheep, particularly in the northern part of its range. It will also hunt species as small as insects and rodents. This cat prefers habitats with dense underbrush and rocky areas for stalking, but it can also live in open areas. The cougar is territorial and persists at low population densities. Individual territory sizes depend on terrain, vegetation, and abundance of prey. While it is a large predator, it is not always the dominant species in its range, as when it competes for prey with other predators such as the jaguar, grey wolf, American Black Bear, and the grizzly bear. It is a reclusive cat and usually avoids people. Attacks on humans remain fairly rare, despite a recent increase in frequency.[4]

Riber zoo released the ones in the peak I think, in fact didn't they escape??

And we all know that Exmoor and Bodmin Moor make up the greater part of the UK. Jeez, what a daft thing to say. Lynx have certainly been killed by cars in this country

The UK is a tiny country with a lot of people in it. Everyone has a camera phone with them these days, but still no-one has taken a picture which shows more than a dark shadow about a mile away. Sorry, but I think if they were out there then we would have proof by now.

Hmm... if there are only one or two animals the evidence would be spread pretty thin even across Exmoor, to be honest. Couple that with loads of walkers and sheep and whatnot trampling tracks, and rain washing away poo, doesn't seem all that improbable that they would exist and not be found by two blokes in two months.

This look like a moggie to you? I'm not sure but it looks jeffin big, especially as the fur's all matted.

[img] [/img]

Actually the Puma is the largest of the small cats and is bigger than quite a few of the big cats. Considering how few leopards, jaguars and pumas are seen by natives of the their habitats I wouldn't be the least surprised if there were breeding populations of large cats scattered across the UK.

I think it was Coypu, not Capybara, that were released from fur farms in the '70s...

One way to find them if they are there would be to bring in a professional hunter with dogs specifically trained to hunt cougars. If they are around, especially in a reasonably small region compartively, the dogs would be very likely to find them.
I have a friend in Colorado whose neighbor is a professional mountain lion hunter/tracker and his dogs don't often fail in the vast San Juan mountain range of S. Colorado.
Probably not terribly cost effective shipping a pack of dogs and hunter across the Atlantic---but it's pretty amazing what TV stations/news organizatons will spend for an excusive story.

Interesting detail on the cougars, including size, etc. can be seen at: http://www.nps.gov/brca/naturescience/mountainlion.htm

Here in New Mexico, there have been reports over the last 20 years of sightings of Jaguars in the SW corner of the state--it was pretty much ignored or considered mistaken identity (i.e. alcohol or other recreational drug induced)--until about 5 years ago, an experienced hunter got several pictures of one and about 2 years ago one was was caught in a trap in SE. Arizona that later died in captivity. Running into one of those would get my attention.

There was a report of a Lynx hit by a car in Norfolk, which is what I was thinking of, plus there are these:
- 1991 - A Lynx was shot dead in Norfolk by a Devon Farmer

- 1989 - In Shropshire a Jungle Cat was fatally injured in a road crash

- 1988 - In Devon a Leopard Cat was shot

- 1988 - In Hampshire a Swamp Cat was killed crossing a road

- 1987 - On the Isle of Wight a Leopard Cat was shot

CountZero--Based on the dates of those occurances, it could have coincided with people releasing wild animals they had as pets when the UK law went into effect outlawing keeping wild animals----I don't know the life expectancy of large cats, but I would imagine it could run to 20 years in a location where they didn't have much in the way of natural predators (and lots of deer, sheep, small animals to eat)--the large cats are very adept at staying out of sigh. If you think of how the population/urban spread has increased since then, potential habitat has certainly decreased markedly.

We have our own native species of wild cat. It may not be very large, but how many of Joe Public have seen one in the wild?

To be honest, the majority of our native mammals are less than obvious in the countryside! I probably see foxes a couple of times a year (and there are lots where I live), have never seen an otter, polecat or pine marten and am pleasantly surprised on the occasions when I see badger, hare or weasel.

Regarding cameras- you'd have to be face to face before you get a clear shot with anything other than very expensive pro kit.... As I posted in the puppy thread, I struggle to get a good shot of our spaniel because she never keeps still long enough! Couple that with distance, say a couple hundred yards and it's no surprise photos ar blurred or indistinct.

So nothing for 20 years then. Given that the life expectancy of a Leopard is 20 years I think it's pretty certain that anything released after the laws prohibiting keeping dangerous animals is long since dead. Oh and I only live in Kent, but see deer, foxes and badgers pretty much every week during the warmer months and I saw a family of boar at Bedgebury about 5 years ago.

FWIW, the one I saw was in '98 at a distance of about 25-30 metres, moved like a cat and was definately bleck! It's very easy to write things off, but judging from where it had been sighted, it could quite easily have been some moneybags' illicit pet.
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If big cats are around its suprising that one has never been put up by a pack of fox hounds, you'd need a cougar with some big kahuna's not to run from a pack of hounds.

As ocrider suggests, just cos it's illegal to have these pets doesn't mean that people aren't keeping them anyway and then releasing them when someone threatens to shop them. Or they escape.