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People will just fly with someone else, there won’t be an overall reduction in flights. But you know that don’t you
Are you sure about that? There won't be enough free capacity to pick up everyone so other companies will put up prices because they can in this case. That will put people off. In fact they can raise prices up until the point demand is dropping off again. Edukator is probably right here
Normally a Tory government would say **** off… But Boris seems a bit flush with cash in the run up to the election so we’ll see..
The contards wont do anything to help. Why should they? They didn’t help any other industry over the last 10years when in trouble, in fact they’ve gone out of their way to say “it illegal to assist business”
So I predict they will stick to their current policy of telling everyone to piss off.
I wonder how soon thomas cook pays the portion of the holiday to the individual hotels when its booked?
I’d be surprised if they paid in advance.
why would you bother with a package company when you can do it all online independently
I've done ski holidays independently for years, but had a scare recently when the return transfer was delayed and we nearly missed the flight home. If you're independent, that's your problem to fix; on a package it's all down to the operator.
When Monarch went, the CAA hired planes and pilots to bring people home, at huge cost, and it sounds as if the same could happen. Why don't the CAA use the bankrupt airlines planes and staff? They could extend the licence for a week for repatriation only, and using the facilities that are already set up must be cheaper.
I’d be surprised if they paid in advance.
Yes, I imagine hotels will stop feeding people pretty much immediately.
Monarch went under the day before we were due to go on holiday to Venice. Ended up booking the flights with Ryanair and speaking to the hotel directly (who hadn’t been paid) to keep our room. Ended up costing about the same.
Refunded via ATOL. Took a few weeks as there were obviously a lot of claims.
Scary times for staff and people on holiday or waiting to go 🙁
The mechs were all in at Manchester last night collecting their tools....
Sat up in Manchester on standby, flying third party work for another company, although we’ve had contracts for TCX in the past. I’m sure we’ll be flying repatriation flights as and when required. Sad times.
It’s an awful time for many folk, not just direct employees, but all the associated companies and their employees too. And not forgetting the stress on the customers. The flights we did for TCX were generally full, so the capacity is utilised. There will be a big bun-fight over slots, however my colleagues and I aren’t aware who has spare aircraft to service that requirement. The widebodied jets won’t be taken on (IMHO) by anyone as they’re seriously old now and would be a commercial liability. I don’t know about the narrowbodies.
Why don’t the CAA use the bankrupt airlines planes and staff?
The aircraft are owned by a leasing company; they will also be impounded at airfields until the landing/parking fees are settled and that they have the regulatory approval to fly, which can’t be issued to a bankrupt airline. The crew and ground staff will be busy looking for new jobs. Their passes will expire as Security is paramount.
The CAA are merely a regulator. They can’t and won’t requisition aircraft that are owned by a bank or anyone else.
I can’t help feel that RBS who were bailed out by the taxpayer should be coughing up; it’ll cost 3 times the bailout to repatriate...
Gov to bail out or not?
TC have c600,000 holidaymakers abroad; c150k from UK; estimated repatriation cost is £600mill.
Additional funding requirement to satisfy prospective lenders is £200mill.
If a bail-out happens would Gov be able to recover costs from future profits (if TC continue trading)?
If repatriation cost is for UK holidaymakers only that's £4k/head; assume an average of 250 seats on a plane - that's £1mill/plane which presumably includes all costs.
Sounds like a lot but I have no understanding of aviation industry costings.
Problem with the government bailing them out for £200 million is that will tide them over through the winter, when they'll need another £200 million, and another next autumn.....
If it's not a viable business any longer chucking chunks of cash at it really isn't going to help anything other than short term cash flow. If they had a great restructuring idea presumably they'd be well into that by now after the last investor cash injection about 6 months ago IIRC??
You’d be amazed at how many people don’t take out insurance
Isn't that what Just Giving is for nowadays? Go on holiday, get pissed, fall off balcony then raise money to get medivac home.
Guess who is due to fly home from Mallorca tomorrow on TC? 🙋♀️😂
why would taxpayer need to repatriate people? genuine question - isnt this what insurance/ATOL/ABTA is for. Ok there are always edge cases and short term welfare things but surely this is for people to make their own arrangements, and if they havent then tough?
Guess who is due to fly home from Mallorca tomorrow on TC?
Is it Ronnie Pickering?
Boris has some thinking to do, if he temporary saves Thomas Cook, he sets a precident for shaking the magic money tree for lots of other UK businesses that will go pop if Brexit goes ahead... Especially if his beloved No Deal flavour happens, god help us ordinary folk!
Those that compare bailing out Banks to bailing out TC are somewhat way off the mark.
Afterall, you do want your Bank Deposits back don’t you? Had the Govt not bailed them (didn’t really bail them but bought large chunks of shareholding’s in them then tagged lending on assets) you wouldn’t have been able to get at your money. The BoE is lender of last resort, it’s ITS job to make sure people have access to their funds. If you want anyone to blame for that fiasco... have a pop at the directors and CEO’s who flagrantly pissed your money and assets against bad stock and shifty investment management.
As is LyingBloHard will do nothing other than wave a flag whilst dangling from a zip-wire like he always does.
Are the repatriation flights done on a cost basis? There is going to be a lot of money made by some people.
A colleagues friend applies aircraft liveries. He recently did a load of TC planes that were hired for the summer season.
A few weeks after the job was completed, a big wig at TC decided that the design should be altered so all the decals had to come off and revised ones added.
No wonder they are struggling with such decision making.
Very upsetting for those awaiting flights home in the coming days; and those already paid for holidays later this year or next year.
What really surprises me is that TC have managed to sell holidays for this long; I cant remember the last time we booked through a TC type company. I thought most people nowadays booked their holidays through TravelRepublic type websites.
Once again the Brexit thread loons will cry its another result of Brexit, but its an unfortunate result of changing consumer practices.
Had the Govt not bailed them (didn’t really bail them but bought large chunks of shareholding’s in them then tagged lending on assets) you wouldn’t have been able to get at your money.
Don't the FCSC protect your money for such an event?
This is the logical conclusion of our need to address climate change - an end to cheap mass tourism as companies struggle to make a profit at the price people are willing to pay for their holidays. Add in realistic fuel taxes etc and it really does spell the end.
What really surprises me is that TC have managed to sell holidays for this long; I cant remember the last time we booked through a TC type company. I thought most people nowadays booked their holidays through TravelRepublic type websites.
They have 550 shops selling nothing but TC holidays, plus website etc. Currently over 150k people oversees with them now.
Yes its unfortunate for those working in the 550 shops. And the 150k stressing the last few days of their holidays now.
Its the end for TC now though; they wont be getting any new bookings from today - and a load of people going to the GPs to get a certificate to cancel and refund holidays already booked.
The government shouldn't be funding any bailout. I think if shareholders were liable for the debt they might take their role as owners of the company more seriously. As it is the company goes bust and all supplies will have to take the hit on the debt that's outstanding. So you end up with the owners if the company going bust with no liabilities and all their suppliers having to fund them instead. That doesn't seem very fair to me
As it is the company goes bust and all supplies will have to take the hit on the debt that’s outstanding.
They can get insurance cover for this, so probably won't loose too much (assuming they took out cover).
It's the banks / bond holders who will take the biggest financial hit; and then the staff who get the most disruption.
@chrismac^^^ shareholders own the company but have little/no influence over board decisions - other than the likes of activist investors or large shareholders who can agitate for change and have their views expressed in business media.
Small shareholders have no voice other than a vote at AGM. Too often they buy at/near top of market and are panicked into selling when share price has plunged.
When a company goes pop the shareholders lose their investment; is that not enough for you?
How many small shareholders were wiped out by Northern Rock? What influence did they have over the Rock's funding and lending decisions - or even understood them?
What happens if you need to pay for a holiday in next few days and TC goes bust straight after, they have your cash, and how much will the credit and debit card companies have to pay out under clause 75 refunds.
Sadly more and more of these large companies are going bust more frequently, with huge loses of staff and upset customers.
Anyone else thinking they could jump on a plane tomorrow, get marooned somewhere nice, and not be able to go to work on Monday?
mooman
Once again the Brexit thread loons will cry its another result of Brexit, but its an unfortunate result of changing consumer practices.
Massive condescending generalisation?
Yeah, nothing at all to do with Brexit, I mean buying in Sterling and paying in foreign currency when the value of the £ has declined since you set your prices has no impact on your bottom line...
Yes its unfortunate for those working in the 550 shops. And the 150k stressing the last few days of their holidays now
It's actually 600k in total, 150k of those are UK nationals.
So 2.5% of the UK population in any given week are on holiday with one of the major tour operators in the UK, which according to you is a dying industry
0.25%
I think if shareholders were liable for the debt they might take their role as owners of the company more seriously.
If you want to see the end of business, pensions, insurance and innovation then that’s fine. Limited Liability Companies are called Limited Liability for a reason.
How many small shareholders were wiped out by Northern Rock? What influence did they have over the Rock’s funding and lending decisions – or even understood them?
The vast majority of NR shareholders were customers who were given shares when it de-mutualised, rather than seasoned investors. I worked for the registrar that maintained the list of shareholders at the time, and the number of calls from angry punters who couldn’t/wouldn’t believe that the shares that they had, that were once worth £000’s, were now worth nothing, (they had got them for nothing too, but that wasn’t the point, apparently) was crazy.
You’d be amazed at how many people don’t take out insurance
Me. I never take out insurance for european holidays. they only thing that insurance gives you is medical repatriation. Everything else is covered under EU reciprocal arrangements - yes even recovery from the mountains and medical treatment. If you have insurance you might be diverted to private facilities
I am prepared to self insure in the case of needing medical repatriation which either means staying abroad longer until you are fit for a normal flight or paying extra for 2 / 3 seats
But then - the only insurance I have is house and contents.
Well, the hoped-for marooning hasn’t happened yet. Just about to get on the plane home.
I don't understand why it's ok for shareholders to take dividends from the profits but not be liable for the losses. Why should the suppliers have to carry the losses and not the people who own the company?
I don’t understand why it’s ok for shareholders to take dividends from the profits but not be liable for the losses.
Considering the share price at which those shareholders bought at has nosedived 90% in the last year, I'm fairly certain they are taking a big hit on losses
because its not Lloyds of London .Its a PLC, the L standing for limited . This means your exposure is limited to your investment only.
I do have a nasty feeling this is the tip of the brexit iceberg. People are simply not spending as they used to , so luxery items are probably being put on hold. and foreign holidays are certainly a luxery item
I get bombarded with email offers from ski companies with various offers trying to entice me to book today , likewise Neilson and Mark Warner.
I do have a nasty feeling this is the tip of the brexit iceberg
Sshhhhh you can’t mention that word here 🙂
I’m always amazedaball’s how bad some of theses big companies are at er actual business though ,the amount of millions spinning around and they can’t make it work, it’s not like they started up last week.
Boiled frog syndrome - they don’t realise the extent of their problems until it’s too late. Plus if you have a business model that’s worked for decades it’s hard for people to accept it won’t work again..
There are multiple factors here - whilst brexit uncertainty and a related devaluing £ is going to have some impact, diy holidays, airbnb, low cost airlines and some poor offerings from some of the the package holiday companies are also factors.
It's never been easier to put your own holiday together either completely independently or by adding accommodation and hire car to flight bookings from the low costs.
I'm in my late 40s and I've only booked 2 package holidays in my life - unless I'm looking at a dedicated activity holiday, I can't see it ever happening again.
whilst brexit uncertainty and a related devaluing £ is going to have some impact, diy holidays, airbnb, low cost airlines and some poor offerings from some of the the package holiday companies are also factors.
I think the B word has actually put the accelerator to the floor on businesses that were on a dodgy footing TBH.
If you book flights and hotels through Expedia you get ATOL protection these days, so that's one slight advantage that tradional package had eroded.
Just read an article online that said they've paid out 1.2 billion quid in interest since the last massive loans taken to stave off bankruptcy in 2011. 😳