MegaSack DRAW - 6pm Christmas Eve - LIVE on our YouTube Channel
Thank you Convert, a rather well thought through an balanced post from someone at the sharp end.
The current system works (most of the time), the people that know the specific situation for the child, the teaching professionals, make the decision. Gove would have more of a leg to stand on if what he was talking about would actually make a difference. it won't, it won't tackle the chronic truancy I was talking about two pages ago, nor will it address some of the poor parenting that Convert alludes to. Result is the self righteous like TJ get to feel smug, lots of people who generally buy into the implied social contract between parents and the schools feel a little more alienated and the social contract becomes weaker as a result.
As said many times above it would be a lot better if Gove concentrated on dealing with some of the difficult issues our education system faces rather than producing sound bites.
There also seems to be a lot of envy wrapped up in self righteousness coming from certain people on here. Of course people want to pay less for their holidays, means there's more money for other things including the kids. There's also a lot of people who can't take their leave during school holidays, people that work in the tourism business, people with limits on the number of staff at the same time, people in the armed forces, people with fixed shift patterns. Finally don't forget the people who service the schools, my wife works for a heating engineering firm who have a lot of the maintenance contracts with local schools. They are very busy during all the school holidays as this is when the schools want the work doing, to minimise the disruption to the teaching......
Could this 'take your holidays when you like' approach not be extended to teachers?I've been married to a teacher for 17 years and we've never had a cheap holiday.
she's had parents shouting at her when the school's shut for one day due to an Inset.
There's two side to every story, there are others who can't take holidays when they want as mentioned above (and their holiday allowance is often a lot less). Parent's abusing the teachers is not acceptable, but then teachers don't always show much understanding of how much of an issue inset days and ad hoc school closures can be for working parents without the safety net of local parents.
Could this 'take your holidays when you like' approach not be extended to teachers?
It would be an interesting experiment.
I'd like to parents reaction if their kids' teacher was allowed 10 days off each year just to get a bargain holiday.
Would all those parents arguing that it's ok for them to take their kids out of school be ok with the teacher clearing off for a week or two?
What a fun thread.....
Seems that Stoner is taking the kid to see a wonderful event. Kid is only 5 and will not suffer much loss of education, and in fact will get some pretty good life education, including French. I think Stoner said he would do it this year an maybe next, then would be more reluctant to do it, when the education becomes more intensive.
Don't think Stoner mentioned he is doing it for convenience or cost, but to see the TdF. Seems like for a one of event to me.
I apologise to TJ for the insult.
unnecessary.
how much of an issue inset days and ad hoc school closures can be for working parents
Inset days have been part of the school system for decades, and are published as part of the school calendar, so they're not unexpected & there's loads of time to make arrangements.
Ad hoc days, fair enough.
Unless it's due to snow. or dangerously high winds. or broken plumbing/heating. and the council closes the school.
Sometimes, that's just life.
Our daughter has an Inset day at her school on Wednesday this week. My wife will still be expected to work at her (not the same) school.
Teachers with children have exactly the same issues with Inset days and childcare as everyone else.
Locally most of the 'after school club' type operations do Inset day cover as well.
And I work at home which is always useful.
It seems that most parents on here have considered the impact of taking their children out of school, and are not blindly assuming that there's an annual entitlement of 10days in-term holiday per annum.
And the government's (rather draconian) statement was aimed at parents that consistently take out their kids on this basis without any regard for the education system. And that I disagree with. But I also don't want to be told that I can't take them out if there's a good reason.
I still don't understand why people's holidays cost more during school holidays. I've never noticed any difference on any of my last few holidays.
[i]if there's a good reason. [/i]
Every parent who takes their kid out of school in term time belives that they have a good reason. This is why heads had discretion and were abel to exercise judgement. The problem was that the parents who were refused often either did it anyway or got [i]really[/i] nasty.
Most schools now just say 'no kids out of school in term time, no exceptions' to avoid the problem. All Gove is doing is formalising it and removing the Heads discretion.
I reckon most schools will welcome it, it will remove a lot of conflict from their relationship with the parents if they can just say 'it's the law' when asked.
The Telegraph article concludes with similar thoughts to earlier posts (although I censored the final line to save flaming an otherwise good argument!)
As for the cost of plane tickets, spare a thought for those poor teachers who cannot take their families away out of school holiday time. At least for other families, the restriction around plane fares lasts the length of the child’s school career. For teachers, it lasts their entire lives. As I have always said, it isn’t our teachers who are at fault: it is the system.
aP - it really can make a huge difference. My son's first school had a head who was a keen skier. So terms started a week later that everyone else. Why, it was the cheapest week of the whole season. Massive discount on previous week.
I still don't understand why people's holidays cost more during school holidays. I've never noticed any difference on any of my last few holidays.
Ah I guess everyone else who notices this is wrong then. The same holiday costs at peak season which is school holidays.
Most schools now just say 'no kids out of school in term time, no exceptions' to avoid the problem. All Gove is doing is formalising it and removing the Heads discretion.
Most? None in our area do.
I took my son skiing three weeks ago, a couple of weeks before the half term break. It was not a case of 'saving money' it was the difference between being able to afford it or not being able to afford it. A secondary consideration is that the slopes and lifts were far less crowded than they would have been in the half term week.
I strongly suspect that many areas of the holiday industry, particularly winter sports, wouldn't have the capacity to accommodate everyone who wanted to go if they were restricted to school holiday time only. Also, the term time weeks would become quieter resulting in employers being unable to justify the staff levels they have now, which would again be to the detriment of service during school holiday times.
It was not a case of 'saving money' it was the difference between being able to afford it or not being able to afford it.
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[i]Would all those parents arguing that it's ok for them to take their kids out of school be ok with the teacher clearing off for a week or two? [/i]
Of course not. Because the teacher not being at work doesn't save the parent any money. And *that* is all that is important here.
Great reponse from convert - our kids' school (primary) has communicated the acceptable grounds for "unauthorized absence"; basically not when they're being inspected or there are tests in the offing. Fully expect this to be a different kettle of fish when they go to secondary in line with converts comments.
Key thing is that we're exercising judgement as to the best thing to do for our kids - if we want to take them out of school for whatever reason, we evaluate and decide, communicate and agree with the school.
Gove is barking up the wrong tree with this policy - much better to stop undermining the position of the LEA with his nutjob notions of academies and free schools.
It not all black and white is it. There's a big difference between taking a struggling student away during exams for two weeks and taking an above average 7 year old away for a few days.
TJ's immovable standpoint on this matter I think might change if he had kids.
Yes my children's education is important, thats why its such a big part of our home life as well. That said I wouldn't think twice about pulling my child out of school for a day or two for something I or he determined important.
I also want to install some values in my children like determination, desire and god forbid maybe some dreams and aspirations.
I'll encourage them to do well and support their hobbies and interests.
If my boy is as keen on cycling when he's seven as he is now (4) then I would def pull him from school for a day to watch his heroes ride past him whilst he cheers them on.
You can find that kind of inspiration and awe in a book or classroom.
Go for it Stoner. Your child. You know how he's doing and how it will affect him. Its not like they'll be teaching some brand new skills and lessons in the last week of the school year is it!
[i]Your child. You know how he's doing[/i]
not includign Stoner in this comment but you'd be amazed at how many parents have no idea how their children are doing (and how few of those seem to actually care)
I took my son skiing three weeks ago, a couple of weeks before the half term break. It was not a case of 'saving money' it was the difference between being able to afford it or not being able to afford it. A secondary consideration is that the slopes and lifts were far less crowded than they would have been in the half term week.
God Bless You and the trials and tribulations you must face in your daily life.
You wanted to go skiing. You don't need to go skiing. Your child needs education. You make your First World Problem almost sound like something real.
There's a big difference between taking a struggling student away during exams for two weeks and taking an above average 7 year old away for a few days.
Yes - it teaches the thicker kids that truancy is OK for the brighter kids. Real motivation there.
not includign Stoner in this comment but you'd be amazed at how many parents have no idea how their children are doing (and how few of those seem to actually care)
Yes but Gove is trying to tarnish everyone with the same brush isn't he?
Gove is barking up the wrong tree with this policy - much better to stop undermining the position of the LEA with his nutjob notions of academies and free schools.
Fuzzhead - despite the free school bit, do you agree with the comments from Katherine Birbalsingh? I must admit, I didn't know who she was when I read her article this morning, but her comments made a lot of sense to me, especially of ensuring that schools made the most of these final weeks. But then a few quick checks, shows that she has her opponents (The Guardian, Janet Eades etc.) Now I understand her final line about Gove!! 😉
Interesting woman - time for more reading!!
Would I take them out at a critical time - No
Would I take them out just to save money - No
Would I take them out if they were behind or struggling - No
Would I know what they were learning and ensure they did some studying during travelling / whilst away - Yes
Why should my freedom to educate / inspire my children be restricted because some abuse the oppurtunity for cheap holidays?
Would all those parents arguing that it's ok for them to take their kids out of school be ok with the teacher clearing off for a week or two?
Sounds great to me, I'll take my 2 weeks at the same time and take little trb touring, he can "catch up" with the teacher when they are in over the summer hols making up their time. A flexible approach to term time is just whats needed. This would be even easier to achieve if teachers only had 24 days holiday like the rest of us but saying that would be trolling 😉
Little trb is coming to France in the last week of term. But as he's in reception I'm fairly confident it won't affect his GCSE's, and beside's the government / LEA have mandated that kids start school at 4 these days which is a tad young for some.
[i]Why should my freedom to educate / inspire my children be restricted because some abuse the oppurtunity for cheap holidays? [/i]
because like all things run by the state or large companies it is more economical/easier to administer a 'one size fits all' approach.
I don't think that I'm a dangerous driver and occasionally break the speed limit when I think it's safe. I wouldn't try and argue the speed limit should somehow be different for me because I know my own driving better than the police if I was pulled up for it though.
This should stop the 'term time holiday' arguements
Turned out to be quite an ironic thread title 😀
teamhurtmore - sorry, not familiar with her, although a quick Google brings up the tagline of "the Tories' favourite teacher", which doesn't exactly endear her to me! Couldn't find any comments from her on the original article?
[i]I wouldn't try and argue the speed limit should somehow be different for me because I know my own driving better than the police if I was pulled up for it though. [/i]
Sounds like you don't belong round here 😉
Stoner - MemberI apologise to TJ for the insult.
unnecessary.
Ta - no worries. I do find it amusing to be called a socialist and it intended to be an insult 🙂
Fuzzhead - yes, I left the Tory's favourite and her line about Gove out for obvious reasons!!! People wouldnt get past that to her actual comments 😉 I posted the link to the Torygraph article earlier.
because like all things run by the state or large companies it is more economical/easier to administer a 'one size fits all' approach.
Funny that. When making desicions about my children I tend to think about whats best for them.
What happens to be
for the government / LEA I couldn't really give two hoots about.more economical/easier to administer
[i]I couldn't really give two hoots about. [/i]
which is fair enough and for educated and middle class parents is probably not a problem. The policy still has to cope with all comners, though, as I said and we are all victims of the lowest common denominator in so much of our lives that I can't see education not going down the same routew for 'policy' type areas.
It's ironic really - teachers are having to produce individual learnign ojectives for each child in a class of thirty now and yet the parents take the view that there's this homogenous education system that treats their child as if ithey're part of a production line and won't be missed.
yet the parents take the view that there's this homogenous education system that treats their child as if ithey're part of a production line and won't be missed
Yep but that'll be the parents who have no real interst in their childs education.
My first step would always be to talk to his teacher and make sure he's up to scratch not struggling with anything etc. It could be quite a bargaining tool as well to encourage them to get stuck in and improve in the months running up to it.
Your child needs education.
Sure does.
Which is why my kids are both at the top end of all of their classes, and I had no compunction about taking them out of school a week early to go to Australia over Christmas. The amount of learning missed = zero; in the last week they would otherwise have been watching films/in a school play/making decorations.
An education is not just about exams, and still less about attendance.
In their three weeks away, the kids learned how to drive a 4x4 on sand (hello Fraser Island), had surfing lessons, climbed Sydney Harbour Bridge, saw a massive glow-worm tunnel in the Blue Mountains, swam with dolphins, sheared a sheep, saw wild dingos/'roos/lizards, abseiled, and did some canyoning. As well as seeing relatives they'd otherwise never have got to see.
I reckon they've learned a bit from their trip, and certainly a load more than they'd have gained from that final pre-Christmas week.
I do find it amusing to be called a socialist and it intended to be an insult
I hereby revoke my apology as I obviously need to work harder on my insults...
Oh dear, I've upset drac. 🙁 Sorry and please don't mark my card!
I remember at my kids school that pupils would be taken out for the day to go to Thorpe Park/Chessington etc., on some flimsy pretext.
Don't teachers have enough to do without investigating/listening to lies of reasons for the absence?
I have to laugh at some of these responses though. 🙄
There also seems to be a lot of envy wrapped up in self righteousness coming from certain people on here. Of course people want to pay less for their holidays, means there's more money for other things including the kids
Ably demonstrated?
God Bless You and the trials and tribulations you must face in your daily life.You wanted to go skiing. You don't need to go skiing. Your child needs education.
We've just taken our two skiing. They didn't [i]need[/i] to go skiing, but they sure as hell got a lot out of it
Where to start??? They were so excited and asked (and had answered, so many questions...)
- Mechanics. How does the cable car work - the idea of it being counterbalanced to reduce the amount of work required. How the skis work.
- Environment. What a glacier is and how the snow doesn't (shouldn't)melt, allowing the glacier to accumulate and advance... and the implications of climate change and retreating glaciers. Avalanches, shelters and barriers
- A few new social skills& a smattering of Italian
So, yes - i'd say it was a very educational holiday for them.
Which is why my kids are both at the top end of all of their classes, and I had no compunction about taking them out of school a week early to go to Australia over Christmas. The amount of learning missed = zero; in the last week they would otherwise have been watching films/in a school play/making decorations.
An education is not just about exams, and still less about attendance.
In their three weeks away, the kids learned how to drive a 4x4 on sand (hello Fraser Island), had surfing lessons, climbed Sydney Harbour Bridge, saw a massive glow-worm tunnel in the Blue Mountains, swam with dolphins, sheared a sheep, saw wild dingos/'roos/lizards, abseiled, and did some canyoning. As well as seeing relatives they'd otherwise never have got to see.
I reckon they've learned a bit from their trip, and certainly a load more than they'd have gained from that final pre-Christmas week.
Best post of the thread.
Education is more important than attending school.
As you said, in this instance, your kids got more education out of school than they would have while in school.
As a parent you have to make those decisions. And you made the right one.
I can't see how your decision would have affected anyone else at your kids school, or had a negative impact on any other kids education.
Turned out to be quite an ironic thread title
Really?
All those who touted their wonderful learning experiences whilst on term-time holidays - are those activities only available during those times, or could they be carried out (if their parents would play the game) during the school holidays?
My folks only took us away during school holidays. We seemed to be able to do stuff during those times - or do you rebels have access to a secret stash of 'educational' stuff?
In isolation, we can all make a good case for taking individual kids out of school. But when you aggregate that up, it becomes unworkable and potentially very selfish for the schools concerned. But still, very fitting for modern "me, myself, I" society......each to their own!
It all reads very much like the moneyed middle classes think they should be allowed to take their kids out of school because they go on educational holidays, but the proles who can't afford quite the same shouldn't be allowed the same leeway.
it will still, more than likely, be cheaper to pay the fine than pay double for the holiday so it wont change much.
[i]In isolation, we can all make a good case for taking individual kids out of school.[/i]
all? I still haven't seen one in this entire thread.
It all reads very much like the moneyed middle classes think they should be allowed to take their kids out of school because they go on educational holidays, but the proles who can't afford quite the same shouldn't be allowed the same leeway.
Ahhh, now we are getting somewhere.
Yes, of course, that is where Gove is headed - because outside of the LEA sector, the schools that Gove wants the moneyed middle classes to send their kids to do these sort of trips anyway don't they...
"Independent" schools have always been big on expeditions etc as part of their programmes of learning and personal development.
Been out all day,and not reading all of this,could somebody give me the salient points please. I take it that there are still two camps,but mostly it is none of our damn business if you want to take your kid out of school. Has the strike action be used to beat the teaching staff yet? That is the way the first couple of pages were going.
For what it is worth,I have no problem with Stoner taking his 5yo to the TdF,especially at that time of year. However; it is a holiday. I reckon I will see perhaps a third of my certificated classes go on holiday between now and exam leave in May. Last year a Mother wrote to me asking me to provide catch up work and wondering what lunchtime would be suitable if her daughter needed some extra help. She had gone to Florida for two weeks on the last day of the Easter hols. BTW; any prospective employer/Uni sees the % of attendance of any pupil. A question,bearing in mind there are probably two very different views on this thread,and I guess this is aimed at you Stoner; will you still be taking him when he is 15? (apologies if the bigger hitters have arrived and covered this)
It all reads very much like the moneyed middle classes think they should be allowed to take their kids out of school because they go on educational holidays, but the proles who can't afford quite the same shouldn't be allowed the same leeway.
And there's no envy or unwarranted judgement of others in that statement is there 🙄
It shouldn't matter what your background is, if you can convince the head teacher that you have reasonable grounds to take your child out of school, be it for educational reasons or the inability to take time off in school holidays or whatever, the childs general attendance is good and they are performing well in school then that is what counts.
duckman, maybe you should have read the rest of the thread through as most people in favour of being able to take their kids out in term time made an effort to point out that missing school at 5 and 15 would have very different consequences.
Stoner; will you still be taking him when he is 15?
stumpyjon (and wallace1492) has covered all my points of view on this throughout the thread with much more decorum and much less frothing than I managed.
One thing thats always going to get a parent's backs up, is criticism of their parenting choices. Up there with 650b, Maverick frames and flatties vs spds in the contentious stakes.
6 pages in 22 hours. Is there a record for the fastest growing thread?
It is all moot anyway, we will be going on work to rule from the Autumn; so by the time you have paid for a tutor in 4 subjects, £150 to get them into the local indy DoE unit (because the DoE is worth UCAS points,dontchaknow) and paid for the football/rugby/hockey training we provide for free. You won't have any money left to go on holiday in term time.*
stumpyjon (and wallace1492) has covered all my points of view on this throughout the thread with much more decorum and much less frothing than I managed.
I got the impression you wanted to ensure that you got the benefits from sending your kid to the school with an opt out should you want to go on HOLIDAY.
* Used to show some of the things us schools (which having read the thread) that are so poor and staffed with such lazy ****less skivers do for your kids (in between their "educational trips.")
No UCAS points for DofE unfortunately, although admissions tutors will note the energy, self-discipline, commitment and capacity for teamwork that is required for completing the award.
As someone who gives permission for pupils to miss school, I would also add that some basic politeness would be nice. You clearly didn't book your ski trip to Canada the day before you leave, so why wait until then to 'ask permission'. That's just plain rude, and not setting a very good example.
And there's no envy or unwarranted judgement of others in that statement is there
Well as one of the moneyed middle classes who did get taken on skiing holidays in term time I think he makes a pretty good point tbh. 😉
My sister is taking her (4 and 7) kids out of school this week so that she can babysit lots of other kids for a close friend's mum's funeral. My sister [i]is[/i] a primary headteacher. (but not their headteacher). Will Mr Gove come round and give her a stern talking to? 😆
gove might enforce ban on removing kids but its holiday companies who are taking the p*** i took my son out off school 1day early few years ago daughter had teacher training day saved myself £1000 on price of my summer hol so £50 fine wont bother me. but think you should only do it relevant to term time, not exam time etc
Ah well, at the end of the day...
Gove is only the [i] English[/i] education minister.
gove might enforce ban on removing kids but its holiday companies who are taking the p*** i took my son out off school 1day early few years ago daughter had teacher training day saved myself £1000 on price of my summer hol so £50 fine wont bother me.
I've put my input into this thread a page or two back with my current teacher head on but could shed some light on this quote from days (black and white days mind you) managing a holiday centre.
The economics of most overseas holiday centres is that they run on a model that barely breaks even and covers the fixed costs in the off and shoulder periods but then makes the entire profits for the year in the peak period. To run a centre you need to lease or run the hotel for the whole season and there are fixed costs in doing so and you feel lucky to cover those with paying guests and even charging much less you struggle to be even half full out of peak season. In peak season we could have been full 3 times over. When taken as a whole throughout the year profits were pretty modest. Making the costs more even throughout the year just would not be econmically viable with the current UK school holiday dates. It's just market forces.
One thought might be to look again at when schools have their holidays - could different counties be at slightly different times therefore extending the holiday season and changing the cost structure of holidays. Working around public exams might be a hassle though.
I tried to read all the posts and got bored. So I hope I don't repeat what's been said.
My 11 year old is a great skier and can ski black runs . From mostly taking a week off during term time. It was mine and my wife's decision. Next year he's in big school and we won't do that because of school commitments
He works hard in school, takes extra tuition and I believe it's worth it. Having done this, he can take this skill going forwards and has given him huge confidence.
This year we took the children from Thurs to Thurs over half term missing Friday. The new headmaster would not allow it. We went anyway. It saved a huge chunk of cost. This is just as Andywoods says.
Going to the original post - that's great. Take your son to the TDF. He'll never forget it. And let's face it, he'll get a better view than trying to watch road cycling in the Olympics
when it comes to school holidays , France is divided into zones , the 3 zones have different holidays , except in the summer and xmas I think . it was done to avoid traffic on the roads .
surely a similar system would mean there is less demand for holidays and might bring the prices down a little bit , making it more affordable for people to go on holiday ?
Can someone tell me where these holidays are that cost the same in and out of term time please? I'd really appreciate it. Assuming we're not talking about camping in Birmingham or something.
Any holiday I've ever looked at that wasn't entirely self-catering and in a tent (and don't get me wrong, we do those too), has been *at least* double the price out of term time. Some skiing holidays will treble in price during school holidays especially those that are popular with families.
Thanks.
And let's face it, he'll get a better view than trying to watch road cycling in the Olympics
applied for lots of tickets (triathlon, track cycling, hockey). got none.
Can someone tell me where these holidays are that cost the same in and out of term time please? I'd really appreciate it. Assuming we're not talking about camping in Birmingham or something.
Any holiday I've ever looked at that wasn't entirely self-catering and in a tent (and don't get me wrong, we do those too), has been *at least* double the price out of term time. Some skiing holidays will treble in price during school holidays especially those that are popular with families.
Thanks.
[url] http://www.secretdestinations.com/one-price-all-year-round-villas.html [/url]
As a parent of two boys, both at primary school, it amuses me greatly when parents bleat on and on about the cost of going on holiday.
Rather than boring on about how expensively is and how unfair [b]it[/b] is why not go see your GP and get a strong dose of PTFU. You aren't [b]entitled[/b] to a foreign holiday, it's not owed to you.
Back in the day, when going abroad was genuinely expensive all the time, our parents took us on holiday in the uk, camping usually. What's wrong with doing that? It's perfectly possible to have an ace time for not too much money if you use your nut, plan in advance and don't expect to live a lifestyle that's clearly beyond your means.
Is my memory failing, or didn't TJ argue elsewhere for 'discretionary' obedience to traffic regulation measures?
The problem is the prevailing "don't tell me what I can or can't do, i'll do what the f*** I like, it isn't hurting anyone" attitude in society ... when I was at school people had more respect for the education system & teachers, people in positions of authority in general actually ... society has become increasingly self-centred in pretty much all areas ...
'discretionary' obedience to traffic regulation measures
Society is generally too stupid for anything discretionary to work properly.
Most people can't even manage to do things they're asked/expected to do, so expecting them to make appropriate decisions using their own head is laughable.
"Discretion" = "Do what I like", in most peoples narrow, selfish little world.
[i] http://www.secretdestinations.com/one-price-all-year-round-villas.html [/i]
Excellent. Many thanks. Got any skiing holiday stuff? 😉
ditch_jockey - MemberIs my memory failing, or didn't TJ argue elsewhere for 'discretionary' obedience to traffic regulation measures?
Not that it has any relevance at all but when its my safety at risk then yes I will break traffic law. I will not do it for my convenience nor to save a few pennies. As regards taking your children out of school - I have no problem if its for a good reason - but merely saving money is not good reason to me.
Haven't read all the previous, apologies if this point has already been made
I am seperated from my two daughters mother and they live with her so every moment I can spend with them is very precious to me and I would like to think them. My work is reliant on tourism, it is part of my terms of employment that I may not take time off during school holidays. I don't earn alot but try to take my daughters away for a few days once a year using the local papers "holidays for £10" offer, genuinely the only holiday I can afford for them. We usually go to a caravan park a few miles up the road. I have to take these trips in term time, sometimes including Friday and Monday or sometimes during the week dependant on what "slot" we can get and consequently my girls miss a few days school. I always give plenty of notice and get permission from the Head and class teachers (who are all excellent and do a fine job BTW)
So you see I am not looking to save a few quid on taking Tarquin and Jemima for jollies round Val d'isere dahling. I have a genuine need. Blanket legislation like this will mean my girls and I will lose precious quality time together.
Thanks Mr Gove.
when it comes to school holidays , France is divided into zones , the 3 zones have different holidays , except in the summer and xmas I think .
There French are also pretty hardcore when it comes to pupils missing school, for any reason. There are pretty hefty penalties.
Personally I am totally opposed to taking kids out of school for holidays. It teaches them that education is less important than more frivolous stuff and can have a serious effect on their attitude to learning. Parents who dress up their self interest in "but little johnny will learn loads, will write a diary, will do all his work etc etc" are just justifying their own self interest as other than seeing a few foreigners not much really happens. Certainly no more than if the holiday was during proper school holidays.
I see it all the time at college, kids (always the ones with relatively affluent parents) get taken off for holidays, fall behind on their work, do badly in their exams and then the parents are asking me what [b]I[/b] am going to do about it. All parents seem to think their kids are clever and a week off here or there will not affect their learning. Unfortunately, their perception of their kids ability is usually exaggerated and their learning is affected no matter how good the kids are. Equally cheap holidays seem to be a bit like crack, no matter how often people say "only this once", once they get a taste for it they cant stop, even when it comes to important periods like GCSE and A level years.
However do what you like but: accept the responsibility for you genius kids doing less well than you expected, don't moan about crap schools and teachers being the only reason behind said underachievement, don't expect the teachers to do loads of extra work to bring your kids up to speed etc etc.
I am seperated from my two daughters mother and they live with her so every moment I can spend with them is very precious to me ...... I have a genuine need. Blanket legislation like this will mean my girls and I will lose precious quality time together.
Scenarios like this are what the existing discrectionary system is supposed to accommodate. Actual neccessities rather than just so people can afford a nicer holiday 🙄
Mr Gove's proposal is reported in the Daily Telegraph article as being a blanket ban.
Hopefully when the full facts are available it will be seen to allow for absence due to extenuating circumstances - i.e. head teachers will not be expected to hide behind zero-tolerance legislation
Of course, this would not prevent some parents inventing stories to get what they want 😕 ... (cynical? moi?)
Well I haven't got time to read all this but I would like to point out that holidays do not only benefit the parents. A *good* holiday can be worth a lot more than two weeks of being bored sh*tless in a classroom.
The parents of persistent truants are currently 'fined' (can't pay, won't pay, naturally), then taken to court and given a slap on the wrist.
Removing the power of headteachers to allow absence on a discretionary basis just chucks another couple of hundred thousand families into that failing system.
My two are off to play in a local music festival in a few weeks' time - it will mean a couple of authorised absences from school. Is the school going to lose discretion over this as well? (#firstworldproblems)
Schooling is a partnership between parents and teachers. Some parents take the p*ss out of the current system, and so do some teachers. Removing any flexibility will not tackle those parents who are utterly incapable of holding up their end of the deal, just alienate the many more who just want a pragmatic and mature relationship with the school.
Fortunately it's an unenforceable headline grabber, so we can rest easy.
On the subject of termtime holidays, I've never done it, but I do sometimes look at what the children actually do in the last couple of weeks of the summer term and get very tempted.
Wont this new rule royally **** with Police, Fire, Nurse/Doctor and Ambulance staff's holiday plans with their kids?
This year we took the children from Thurs to Thurs over half term missing Friday. The new headmaster would not allow it. We went anyway. It saved a huge chunk of cost. This is just as Andywoods says.
Who would be a teacher.
I did quite like the fact that Education Welfare Officers stand outside Legoland in Windsor on term time weekdays taking details down from people with school age kids 🙂
Well I haven't got time to read all this but I would like to point out that holidays do not only benefit the parents. A *good* holiday can be worth a lot more than two weeks of being bored sh*tless in a classroom.
A "good holiday" can just as easily be had during official school holidays.
holidays during term time are better [b]fact[/b] - I think it's the thrill of illicit time off school that does it.
Not that it has any relevance at all but when its my safety at risk then yes I will break traffic law
Of course it's relevant - you're criticising Stoner for contemplating ignoring proposed legislation, while being quite content to break existing traffic laws. A week's absence from school is probably less risky for a child's wellbeing than someone flouting traffic laws, especially when they're not wearing a helmet.
[i]especially when they're not wearing a helmet[/i]
this thread now has all the ingredients in place for meltdown.
^^ Yes, I think after 6 pages it's safe to say this thread no longer has a serviceable purpose other than repetition followed by bickering and personal insults ... standard STW procedure
ditch jockey - so stoner is taking his children out of school to ensure their safety? Or some equal imperative?
Excellent. Many thanks. Got any skiing holiday stuff?
No worries.
There is a chalet that's run by an English couple (ex Teachers) that doesn't charge more in school holidays.
(or don't charge less in term time) depending on how you look at it.
I'm pretty sure its in Meribel, but possibly Morzine. Don't have time to look for it now I'm afraid, but they do Summer Mountainbiking and Winter skiing holidays.
Worth a search about.
