[Closed] This should stop the 'term time holiday' arguements

In the grand scheme of things there's a lot about the education system in general and truancy issues in particular that need sorting before banning parents from term time holidays.

Final point, not all parents take their kids on holiday to spend two weeks in a kids club whilst they get drunk. Some of us actually see the holiday destination and family time as a learning experience in it's own right.

Well put, stumpy.

Drac - you're exempt from this.

Ours didn't. I guess they look at how well the kid is doing in class, what they're like for attendance, whether the parents turn up for parents evening and are supportive, that sort of thing. If all boxes are ticked, have a nice time.

This is exactly what happened to us, we even got a letter stating why we could take her out of school.

I guess ours will have to be home schooled for a week in January every year.

God knows what we will do about my brothers Friday wedding in September.

In '79 as a 12 yr old I had 7 weeks off to visit family and friends in Canada.

The headteacher thought this was a great idea and would be very educational (which it was).

I am all in favour of term time hols. The only kids disadvantaged by taking time out, are the kids who would be equally 'disadvantaged' staying in school.

Get a grip Tories!! Governance by sound bite!

We'll see how this goes then- we were of a mind to send out oldest to school after Easter, or possibly September, but if this goes ahead we might keep them both out of school for another year or two.

In mrs vinnyeh's line of work she doesn't get to pick and choose her holidays - she's largely restricted to taking time off at the end of a job, and we've found the advantages of being able to spend large chunks of time with, and educating, our children, while indulging their broader interests, far outweighs the paint-by-numbers education that schools seem to provide.

Some of us actually see the holiday destination and family time as a learning experience in it's own right.

This is true but going somewhere cheaper and possibly closer to home, in school holidays not term time, achieves the same end.

Pulled our son out of school for a couple of days to watch the mtb world cup at fort bill. Told the headmaster where we were going and he was all for it.

So stoner - are your children home educated then?

it is a lot cheaper for me to fly home ( france ) with the familly by going 1 day early or coming back late .

headteacher approves it , as it is part of their education to learn a second language .

nope. your point?
apart from the obvious one...

If you're registered to attend school you are obliged to attend school except for authorised absence (The bit that gove**** is thinking of getting rid of) unauthorised absence CAN lead to the LEA finding you. But given the inconsistency of below it's daft.

You do not have to notify the LEA that your child isnt to attend school and is going to be alternatively educated and then you can go off and do as you please within educational achievement targets.

Honestly, these politicians have a bl**dy nerve, dont they? I mean,

- we spend our lives teaching our kids that the only person that counts is themselves
- that authority is something that should be mocked at all times
- that your learn more spanish at magaluf airport than in class
- that the uni of life is THE place to learn real stuff

..then this. Blimey, they will never be ready for work at this rate. Where do these politicians think that our kids will learn that its ok to waltz out of work to go to the nearest costa, surf the net instead of working, go to the gym during work hours. If they dont get this right at school they will never be prepared to compete in a global labour force. Scummy politicians - makes you sick.

There are some dozy buggers here.
Why always assume that prices double in the holidays? How about realising that they just get cheaper when there is less demand. Perhaps some people should be at school with their kids.
I reckon its a great idea but it won't work. The penalties will be just like all the others in this screwed up country of ours, pointless. Now if the penalty for taking little Jimmy abroad for a week out of holiday term was removal of passports for 10 years people would think just like decnt fines ( lets say £1000 first time) for speeding etc would stop them.
Equally it would also mean that all those screaming little gits who spoil my holidays would be else where.

What a load of baw bags, politicians live in a bubble world...

I just like the end lyrics "f*ck you I won't do what you tell me"

eek bit hippy/anarchist of me.

Stoner - Member

nope. your point?

Cake and eat it?

Want your kids in school abide by the rules, want to not abide by the rules then home school them.

What are these holidays you all speak of...?? Been many a year since ive had one of those. Any time off I have gets eaten up with child care during school breaks.... Oh the luxury to have any time left to take off work during term.

abide by the rules

because government policy knows best, doesnt it?

Those who do will defend their right to do it, they just rely on the rest of the parents to suck it up so that the class can run, if all parents did the same it's easy to see 20% absentism if you add the usual "real" sickness

is it viable to run a coherent education with that level of absentism? I doubt it

"painting by numbers" education, might be your school ours seems to be quire innovative

In the grand scheme of things there's a lot about the education system in general and truancy issues in particular that need sorting before banning parents from term time holidays

tell me what's the difference between; can't be bothered to take the kid to school all the posh parents can do it for their expensive holiday's, we want an extra star on our hotel, and Tarquin loves skiing ,

it's a mute point anyway, you'll keep on doing just as BMX X5 owners always park in disabled/ parent and child spots 😉

Stoner - Member

"abide by the rules"

because government policy knows best, doesnt it?

No - by putting your kid in school you agree to abide by the rules - and there are legal sanctions for you if you don't. If you don't want to abide by the rules then home school them so you don't have to.

TJ. How many children do you have? Presumably you are approaching this thread from a position of experience?

Cheers GreatApe that would be nice if we were.

Coffeeking I work as a Paramedic there's only so many of us can be off at anyone time, my wife works for the NHS too so trying to sync our holidays is very hard. I don't get many weekends off, like all emergency services I even have to work Xmas. So yeah it's not as easy as you may believe.

Usual attitudes and BS on this thread, but you all know better as parents than teachers do when it comes to education of course. I especially liked Stumpyjon's bit about doing something about truancy...where is it they go/stay when they skive school? But that is of course,our fault and something schools need to do something about.You do realise taking the kids on holiday during term time IS truancy? And the bit about in-service days, that was good as well;I mean wrong, but lets not let whatever your brother's mate claims he saw be called as rubbish. Ill-informed in my experience,but good. And Stoner,as your child is registered with the school you have a requirement to send them.It's like this,I don't think anybody below senior management is bothered,especially with a child this young,but please don't dress it up as an educational trip.You are going on holiday,and want to take your child.
It is a pity the weather hasn't been bad, as we could have had the usual thread about how the school is closed,ignoring the fact it is closed because parents sue the local authority.

Usual attitudes and BS on this thread, but you all know better as parents than teachers do when it comes to education of course. I especially liked Stumpyjon's bit about doing something about truancy...where is it they go/stay when they skive school? But that is of course,our fault and something schools need to do something about.You do realise taking the kids on holiday during term time IS truancy? And the bit about in-service days, that was good as well;I mean wrong, but lets not let whatever your brother's mate claims he saw be called as rubbish. Ill-informed in my experience,but good. And Stoner,as your child is registered with the school you have a requirement to send them.It's like this,I don't think anybody below senior management is bothered,especially with a child this young,but please don't dress it up as an educational trip.You are going on holiday,and want to take your child.
It is a pity the weather hasn't been bad, as we could have had the usual thread about how the school is closed,ignoring the fact it is closed because parents sue the local authority.

You must have been off skiving the day they did paragraphs and spacing duckman

It'll be interesting to se the results of the first case of parents v state! I've started a thread on this subject before and as I said back then, they're my children and if I wish to take them out of school I will do so!!

I don't understand this talk of holidays costing more in school holiday periods. Could someone explain?
As a child of 2 teachers school holiday holidays never seemed to be a problem.

wrightyson - Member

It'll be interesting to se the results of the first case of parents v state! I've started a thread on this subject before and as I said back then, they're my children and if I wish to take them out of school I will do so!!

Home school them then. Its not menu based system where you can pick and choose. Once registered and at school yo have a legal obligationto send them

I don't understand this talk of holidays costing more in school holiday periods. Could someone explain?

As someone who doesn't have kids that need taking on holiday any more, I always choose school holiday times for my holidays because - as you alluded to - they don't cost any more than similar holidays in term time 🙄

Yeah I'l explain, your parents were off during the school holidays some people's parents aren't.

Does that make sense? For me it's not about the extra cost during peak times it's that I get a limited choice if when I can have my holidays.

It is a pity the weather hasn't been bad, as we could have had the usual thread about how the school is closed,ignoring the fact it is closed because parents sue the local authority.

Has this ever happened though? Or is it based on this fear that they may get sued.

Why home school them, I'm quite happy to admit we couldn't do that?? I don't ever recall signing a document legally binding my children to attend school on every day it's open! I would also never expect the teacher to help them out after their return from holiday. However I'd also never take them out for two weeks solid, that I think is irresponsible, but the odd two/three day stint I can't see as being a problem. Like I see it'll be interesting to see who wins the first case brought to court!

TJ you can be a sacntimonious arse sometimes.

The world doesnt begin and end with the state as Im sure youd love it to. 100% mandatory attendance is not a reasonable consideration for the social contract that state schooling certainly deserves. But a commitment to a full and broad education of your child is a reasonable consideration. And that does not necessarily need mandatory full attendance on pain of the law.

Like all good lefties you believe that you can legislate the citizenry to achieve target outcomes. That is baloney. It insults the individual.

...

Stoner -and yo can be a gross hypocrite 🙄 if you don't want to abide by the rules then opt out. You cannot pick and choose. Those rules are there to protect the others as well. 100% mandatory attendance is the legal requirement. Picking and choosing which bits of the law you want to obey?

There's no right or wrong answer to this.

100% agree with stoner about state intervention etc and others about there being bigger issues surrounding educational performance.

However...it's not just about the individual child. I was speaking with teacher friend of mine a while back who tells me it's common to have multiple kids parents wanting time off at certain points in the year. Once you have more than a couple off at the same time it has implications for curriculum delivery and can lead to those who have attended being stalled whilst those with a suntan catch up.

Not black and white

teamhurtmore - Member

Honestly, these politicians have a bl**dy nerve, dont they? I mean,

- we spend our lives teaching our kids that the only person that counts is themselves
- that authority is something that should be mocked at all times
- that your learn more spanish at magaluf airport than in class
- that the uni of life is THE place to learn real stuff

..then this. Blimey, they will never be ready for work at this rate. Where do these politicians think that our kids will learn that its ok to waltz out of work to go to the nearest costa, surf the net instead of working, go to the gym during work hours. If they dont get this right at school they will never be prepared to compete in a global labour force. Scummy politicians - makes you sick.

actually TJ, until gove piped up with his proposal it was 100% mandatory attendance with discretionary max 10 days pa absence. Which is not 100% mandatory attendance. HTH.

And people pick and choose which laws to obey every day, especially in respect to daft ones that are created to capture one undesirable social problem but end up gathering up perfectly reasonable behaviour. The courts and those that apply the law recognise this every day too, and generally only sanction against the intended undesirable activity - hence conditional discharge for most failure to attend cases that arent actually cases of chronic truancy and failure to educate. At least the judiciary is a bit more intelligent in interpretation than you obviously are.

Why quote that TJ? it's bollocks

Picking and choosing which bits of the law you want to obey?

sort of like picking and choosing whether or not you RLJ?

how very dare you jota.

Dress it up anyway you want it. your convenience is at the cost of not just your childrens education but others as well.

Either you play by the rules or you homeschool. Your wish for cheap holidays does not outweigh others rights to schooling

Either you play by the rules or you homeschool.

Really? Or have I touched a raw nerve? Its amazing how folk just justify their selfishness.

When I was at school we would ocassionally be taken out for holidays during the term time as it was the only time we could have family holidays. It was very unusual at the time and we needed special permission. I don't think a couple of weeks out of a school year are going to be that detrimental to a child's education.

C'mon folks. It's not even 8:00 and there's personal insults already! I am (broadly) with you TJ on this one but unless we are all 100% squeaky clean (RLJ?) then we can hardly accuse others of hypocrisy.

Stoner, isn't Gove saying that he wants to remove HMs discretion to allow up to x days holiday? As much as I generally dislike state intervention, extending the alternative argument merely leads to anarchy. Neither are desirable.

stoner: and that does (SHOULD?) not necessarily need full mandatory attendance on pain of law

TJ any reason for copying my post?

thm - leaving discretion in the hands of someone who is in a position to apply it is a far more sensible approach - there's no anarchy in common sense. There's resentment and lack of respect in statist/centrist dictat.

Just hammering the point you made home 🙂

The difference is I have an imperative for my occasional RLJ which is my safety and it impinges on on no one else. Stoners reason to take his kids out of school is merely selfish and does impinge on others.

The mention of the RLJing anyway is a classic diversion tactic 'cos he is backed into a corner - He knows he is in the wrong so has to try to divert attention from himself and also chuck in a few insults as well

Dress it up anyway you want it. your convenience is at the cost of not just your childrens education but others as well.

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1 or 2 weeks really won't have much effect on kids, not even someone else's.