[Closed] This football chant racism business, really?

You could argue that it’s a sign of how things have progressed.

It’s a strange one!!

It's could be considered "offensive"

Well there's your answer then. Unless you're proposing that some degree of offensive racism is okay.

Unless you're proposing that some degree of offensive racism is okay.

The song suggests he has a massive penis.

‘Scoring all our goals, bellend by his toes’

Link, if it’s allowed

While singing rude songs has always been part of football, the rudeness isn't really the issue here (although as a lifelong fan I'll admit to s****ing at some rude songs in the past, I can also see that if we want ladies and kids to feel at home at football then they are becoming less acceptable)

Putting that aside, the 'difficulty' seems to me to be that the stereotype being portrayed is what some would consider a positive one. Why would that be an issue?

The question here is whether stereotyping someone as a result of the colour of their skin racism?

That's your answer.

Perfect !

Also, Romelu Lukaku is a bugger to rhyme with anything.

Don't really see where the racist element comes into this ..do some white men not have large penises Offensive? ..perhaps ..but personally if I was a pro footballer and there was a terrace chant proclaiming to the world that I had a supersized " old man" ..I would be well chuffed..

Putting that aside, the 'difficulty' seems to me to be that the stereotype being portrayed is what some would consider a positive one.

Offensive? ..perhaps ..but personally if I was a pro footballer and there was a terrace chant proclaiming to the world that I had a supersized " old man" ..I would be well chuffed..

There was a similar thing many years ago with Linford's 'lunchbox'. Actually it's not particularly complimentary,when you spend spend your life training to excel at something and then people still apply reductive stereotypes.

As to seeing it as positive... No, not really. I mean after all. "they are really good dancers" "or they are really good at singing" is not a positive to say in this context either. It plays to lazy stereotypes and is reductive.

I think, particularly in this forum, we need to move beyond the term 'racism' we end up in semantic arguments about it and whether or not it is actually 'racist'. That's not really the issue, it's just not very nice.

First question do you want to try and explain it to the kids at the football?
Next - is it a stereotype based on the colour of his skin?

That tells you it's out for me, and yes it's called progress not PC gone mad.

^^^^^^ this +1 sausage

Is there a pineapple on his head?

Up here we have 'show racism the red card' and it's in their definitions - racial stereotyping - which all clubs sign up to.

I'd imagine KROOF will have the same.

Political correctness gone mad. Next we’ll ban songs about running fast as being a racial steriotype. We’ve had the same nonsense at Spurs about singing being the “Yid Army”, thats done with pride and showing solidarity with a persecuted group.

Just to add fire to the "stereotype" a good mates an ex pro and he always said no man has ever matched Sol Campbell in the trouser area 😆

Chants & swearing have been part & parcel of attending football matches since I started supporting my team 50 years ago ..its called atmosphere .
Within the last few weeks Premier League clubs were asked if they were in favour of having a standing section re-introduced at their ground ..this being where those fans interested in singing could be housed ..( they arent going to be handed a hymm sheet on the way in ) most clubs were in favour .
If you are going to be offended by swearing or singing ..knowing as most people do that this happens at a football match then my advice is to stay away ..
Racism in sport ..I have no time for ..but I don't see how racism can be applied to that particular chant .

jambalaya - Member
Political correctness gone mad. Next we’ll ban songs about running fast as being a racial steriotype.

If you are going to be offended by swearing or singing ..knowing as most people do that this happens at a football match then my advice is to stay away ..
Racism in sport ..I have no time for ..but I don't see how racism can be applied to that particular chant .

Mike look at the finals of any athletics event, its clear there is a physiological difference. It’s now medically proven.

We’ll have an edict before long saying no clapping at football just like they do in student politics. Jazz Hands Baby. Jazz Hands.

The NUS Women's Campaign tweeted: "Some delegates are requesting that we move to jazz hands rather than clapping, as it's triggering anxiety. Please be mindful!"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/32032291/students-swap-clapping-for-jazz-hands-at-nus-event

http://www.independent.co.uk/student/nus-ban-whooping-cheering-exclude-deaf-people-national-union-student-conferences-a7707136.html

Mikewsmith
Yes ...I knowingly did ..as that was the same scenario when I attended my first match ..it happens !
I've just watched the highlights of the Man.City game where two of their players ( as an example ) used the "F" word when missing a chance to score ( Mane & Sterling )..not only did Sky highlight this but showed it again as a replay )..
So go on ..tell me I was a bad parent ..

Can't be arsed to really but saying we did something for 50 years isn't a reason to carry on doing it. Maybe sky need to think a bit more before showing that as a replay?
It's also possible to shout, cheer, chant and get frustrated without a volley of swearing and crude chants.

How about making it a more welcoming place for families? Would you take a 5 or 6 year old to see their first game if they were going to listen to swearing for 90 minutes

Yes. Because it's part of everyday life, just walking down the road etc.

I took my lad to Anfield at 6 years old, he's been a few times since. We've also been to several Reading games and to Wembley.

I just accept there will be some swearing, he accepts it and doesn't get all giddy about it etc.

We’ll have an edict before long saying no clapping at football just like they do in student politics.

No we won't, that's total bollocks and you know it. We're talking about racism in football stadia. The extremes of student politics are utterly irrelevant.

Mike look at the finals of any athletics event, its clear there is a physiological difference. It’s now medically proven

What's your point? What is medically proven?

Edit- In fairness I have had a look now, and the balance of evidence supports Jamba's point. White folks are good at throwing things.

Oh and jumping over things with a stick, they are good at that too. Easy to forget.

jambalaya - Member
Political correctness gone mad. We’ve had the same nonsense at Spurs about singing being the “Yid Army”, thats done with pride and showing solidarity with a persecuted group.

I know a handful of Spurs fans who had no idea that it was anything to do with Jews, derogatory or otherwise. Just goes to show football fans are both intrinsically racist and stupid, not somewhere I'd be taking my child.

We go to yachting regattas where there are fewer **** s.

And the Redbull Hardline event, but will the Bentley manage the mud?

Who cares ..

I took my 7yr old to watch England play at Wembley as a mate got some tickets and said it would be an amazing experience! Yep won't be doing that again, wall to wall swearing and offensive remarks, cursing the referee when he actually penalised a player, thankfully my son got bored during the second half and we left. He comment was that football was ok, but he preferred it when we went to watch rugby!

London Irish games, loads of families and children, specific family friendly areas, even outside of those areas language is 'moderated' as soon as they realise children are nearby!

My 5 year old watched the athletics and noted that the whole line up for the sprints were black athletes. What's the pc way of explaining that it's because they're physically suited to running fast? Without suggesting that because someone is black they are more likely to be good at it?

What's the pc way of explaining that it's because they're physically suited to running fast? Without suggesting that because someone is black they are more likely to be good at it?

Mike look at the finals of any athletics event, its clear there is a physiological difference. It’s now medically proven

No it isn't. I just a read a very good book by Dr Adam Rutherford (R4 Inside Science, geneticist, etc.) where he discusses the idea of race and genetics, and explains very clearly that any idea of racial superiority, be it intelligence or sporting prowess is total fallacy.

So, yes to say that 'they' are faster, stronger, cleverer, stupider, bigger dicked, or whatever, is inherently racist.

My daughter isn't stupid, she can see when there's a noteworthy pattern or regularity to something. So why are they all black?

jambalaya - Member
Mike look at the finals of any athletics event, its clear there is a physiological difference. It’s now medically proven

Oh wow, so much ignorance....

Some black people may be better at running than some white people but there is vastly more genetic diversity in the population of Africa than the whole of the rest of the world combined (hence Out of Africa theory so robust)

Using skin colour as an indicator of sporting prowess is exactly the kind of misinformed tripe that perpetuates stereotypes & racism

My daughter isn't stupid, she can see when there's a noteworthy pattern or regularity to something. So why are they all black?

There are many reasons, just not genetic ones.

My daughter isn't stupid, she can see when there's a noteworthy pattern or regularity to something. So why are they all black?

Did she notice that the pole vaulters were white?

The human genome project, and the ongoing mapping of our genomes now shows that we all have a common ancestor much more recently than we thought.

In the U.K. You only have to go back 900 years to find we are all related. In Europe it's about 1200 years, and worldwide 3500 years! We are ALL related, and quite recently too!

Back in the day we had a chat at Celtic - "He's fat he's round, he worth a Million pound - Mark McGhee - Mark McGhee" - now that was an insult he was clearly worth £2M.

What's the pc way of explaining that it's because they're physically suited to running fast?

Try explanaing that there are social and monetary reasons for different athletes being from different backgrounds.

Availability of training, costs of equipment, etc.

Is it coincidence that all the best rowers are tall,white, and went to public schools and Oxbridge?

So, Is it ok if I make up a song about jambalaya having a tiny penis?

Yes, yes it is.

Did she notice that the pole vaulters were white?

In all my years as a fisherman (angler) I've never seen a black person fishing.
I can only conclude that I'm better suited to it physiologically. Obviously.

What's the pc way of explaining that it's because they're physically suited to running fast?

They are the best at running for their country, also for many sport is their only hope of escaping poverty and running is accessible to all.

Simple and nothing to do with genetics, yes there seems to evidence of a gene that allows some people to be better sports but it’s nothing to do with race.

Shot putters? Discus throwers? Equestrian events? Anything else did she notice any all white events

Michelle Carter. Current Olympic women's shot put champion.
[img] [/img]

What's the pc way of explaining that it's because they're physically suited to running fast?

To be honest, any PC way probably wouldn't be using 'they'.

It might start that there is greater genetic diversity within populations than between populations and that actually, some of 'them' actually are quite slow!

And obviously cycling - something I assume most of us like, being on here.
Why is it that cycling as a sport is almost entirely dominated by white people?

Michelle Carter. Current Olympic women's shot put champion.

Yeah, but she is a woman

Just watched the video linked back there.

Apparently he’s a Belgian Genius, with a 24” Penis and scores all the goals while his bell end hangs by his toes.

I guess Belgians are well endowed.

Shot putters? Discus throwers? Equestrian events? Anything else did she notice any all white events

Anyone remember Oliver Skeete?

Going back to the original question regarding a specific chant that alluded to the size of Lukaku's penis ...
There is on a Saturday morning a programme called SoccerAM which is seen by millions every week..a feature on this programme is a Q&A session with a different player every week some are black some are white ..the questions are fairly standard every week ..who is : the best trainer / dresser / dancer / fastest / slowest etc.
The last question is always the same and is a loaded question nearly always answered with a smile by the player being interviewed ..Who is the longest in the shower ?
Here is Frank Lampard being interviewed ..for the last question he answers Didier Drogba..is this then deemed to be racist ..or just a bit of fun as it was intended ?

So long as he doesn't have a chip on his shoulder about it...

Here is Frank Lampard being interviewed ..for the last question he answers Didier Drogba..is this then deemed to be racist ..or just a bit of fun as it was intended ?

just had to check, it is indeed 2017
[img] [/img]

Yeah, but she is a woman

OK, then. Reese Hoffa. (There are many more examples, but I can't be bothered to look any up. Two will do for now!)

In the grand scheme of football chanting it's pretty tame

A good football chant is a thing of joy and majesty.My own personal favourite is hearing the whole of Old Trafford launch into their homage to [url= https://www.fanchants.com/football-songs/manchester_united-chants/park-park-2/ ]Park Ji Sung[/url], which is offensive on so many levels, but also hilarious when sung with gusto by 70,000 people! 😀

I took mr daughter to the match the other night, and she was s****ing as the Stretford End launched into a rousing rendition of 'my old man said be a city fan, I said * off, bollocks, you're a *!!!'

We didn't hear the Lukaku one, if they did sing it. Personally I doubt it'll last, just because as a chant, it's just not that good

Do you seriously think football terraces are the only places where people swear? If you do, and you find it offensive, you really should get out more

Mikewsmith ..
It's not an assumption ..most people who follow the game would know that Didier Drogba was indeed a world class black footballer ..
As I previously mentioned ..its a loaded question which everyone being interviewed is aware of ..there are examples of black footballers answering the same question stating other black players as being "the longest in the shower" ..is that also racist ?

OK, then. Reese Hoffa. (There are many more examples, but I can't be bothered to look any up. Two will do for now!)

Didn't qualify for Rio, so you haven't come up with 2. You have come up with none. But clearly, if you can't be bothered and you are just looking to address specifics rather than the general point, then thanks for playing!

It's not an assumption ..most people who follow the game would know that Didier Drogba was indeed a world class [s]black[/s] [i]male[/i] footballer ..

The only time I've ever heard proper racist chanting at a match was years ago at an Engerland game at Wembley. Surprisingly it was a bunch of Chelsea fans, renowned as they usually are for their liberalism and all-inclusive tolerance

They barely got into their BNP inspired repertoire before the stewards booted them out

Anyone remember Oliver Skeete?

Aye. Anyone remember any other non- top-flight show jumpers from the same era? Thought not... that's because Skeete, as a black show jumper, was so anomalous that he became a household name.

There were even people claiming he wasn't making the GB team due to racism. No, it was because he was nowhere near good enough.

No need to re-quote and amend my post charlie boy ..I was making the point in a very non racist way that Didier Drogba was a black footballer as quite clearly mikewsmith was pretty clueless to the fact ..

Do you seriously think football terraces are the only places where people swear?

Also worth noting the player has asked them to stop including during the match when they sung it.

How about the old Liverpool chant about Robbie Keane...

He's fast,
he's red,
he talks like father Ted
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane

Racist?

As far as I can see what was actually said was that it's not the only public place where people swear ( not chant or sing ).
I can think of quite a few ..on the street , in the pub , in the workplace ..etc..

Feefoo this is the reason for your observation.

[img] [/img]

They regard the Archbishop with some respect in Africa

JY - get over yourself FFS!

Stand in any schoolyard for 5 minutes and you'd hear far worse. For gods sake, don't be going in any pubs. There's some frightful language being used in some of those places

Like I said, I doubt it'll last. Simply because as terrace chants go, it's just not a very good one

But everyone knows the best way to ensure its continuity is to make a fuss about it and tell everyone to stop singing it

hodgynd - Member
No need to re-quote and amend my post charlie boy ..I was making the point in a very non racist way that Didier Drogba was a black footballer as quite clearly mikewsmith was pretty clueless to the fact ..

Can you name another public place where you hear chants about the size of peoples penises ?

Yup pretty much where a group of men might be, it’s not uncommon.

Do you have the entire list of who's the longest?

I though they were talking about who spends the longest in the shower.

Watched a bit of MOTD last night with FIL

In the Tottenham match some black bloke was sent off and he was greeted with lots of people making "w@nker" signs and shouting at him to FO. Was that racism or just football?

Racists really don't like being told that they're being racist do they?!

Football has a real problem with racism still ime. A few years back when Stoke were in the Europe league or whatever it's called, I got given tickets to see them play Valencia. Spent an hour beforehand in the pub with a few Valencia fans (from memory I think that they brought 30!) Then spent the game in the same stand as them.... obviously not sat next to them because footy fans can't be trusted to sit next to each other. For the entire game all the meatheads surrounding me did nothing but shout racist abuse at the Valencia fans......never been to a match since.

JY - get over yourself FFS!

Stand in any schoolyard for 5 minutes and you'd hear far worse

Yup pretty much where a group of men might be, it’s not uncommon.

Mikewsmith
No & No..if you would like a simple answer ..
You still haven't answered the question that I posed though ..or do you just like to gloss over the questions you find to hard to answer ..by asking another ?
.. I'm almost embarrassed that you support the same team ..so do you still go or has the swearing & chanting that's been present in the ground throughout my lifetime driven you away?

So, Is it ok if I make up a song about jambalaya having a tiny penis?

His nob retracts, unlike his made-up facts, Jambalaya!

Can you name another public place where you hear chants about the size of peoples penises ?

Who is going to explain cock flavoured soup based innuendo to the children?

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/i-have-never-seen-this-before

His nob retracts, unlike his made-up facts, Jambalaya!

STW post of the year 2017

Bravo

Your question was

As I previously mentioned ..its a loaded question which everyone being interviewed is aware of ..there are examples of black footballers answering the same question stating other black players as being "the longest in the shower" ..is that also racist ?

I have never experienced a song about a mans penis in a public place.

So because you haven’t it doesn’t happen?

Drac - Moderator - Block User - Quote

nothing to do with race.

Yeah, that's probably why the last 5 years of men's 100m finals have been so ethnically diverse

[img] ?v=-830826504[/img]
[img] http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/rio-brazil-14-august-2016-a-general-view-of-the-mens-100m-final-at-picture-id589528230 [/img]
[img] ?v=298743231[/img]
[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

Diversity extends beyond colour.

No need to re-quote and amend my post charlie boy

[img] [/img]

..I was making the point in a very non sexist way that Didier Drogba was a male footballer as quite clearly mikewsmith was pretty clueless to the fact ..probably

I do find it funny that we're continually being told to celebrate diversity on one hand, and on the other that there are no differences between groups of people. I'm not expert on physiology but spend even a little time watching the Olympics and it become fairly obvious that black people are generally better runners than whites (other races are available) whereas white people are better swimmers than black. There will be exceptions, but as a general 'stereotype" it's obviously true. In fact most stereotypes become stereotypes because there is at least an element of truth to them.

Same goes for other aspects of life. A classical music orchestra will be comprised almost exclusively of European and Far Eastern musicians, as will the audience. Other types of music attract other audience make-ups. Similarly some bands will appeal far more to men, some to women. My black friends have a terrible taste in music. However they say the same about me, although to be honest so do most of my white friends.

My personal view is the fact the various races have their own strengths and weaknesses is one of the main things that has led to the world being so brilliantly diverse. If we were all the same things would be so bland. Think what food in the UK would be like if we hadn't had folk from other cultures bring us all their varied delicious cuisines. Loads of other examples too. It's not a case of one race (or gender or whatever) being better than another, just different in various ways.

As for the case mentioned, I don't really follow football, but it seems to me the footballer chap in question is hugely popular with the fans (who are probably a mix of races), and the fans in question are singing a light hearted song that I'm sure he finds hilarious. I get the impression there are people out there determined so see racism in the slightest things, which is quite sad really, and does no-one any favours.

I'm confused by the original controversy.
Is it racist to black males because it stereotypes them as being well endowed or is it racist against white males because it suggests they may not be as well endowed? Or is it racist to anyone offended by it because they are, well... offended by it?

With regards to the various sports dominated by one evolutionary trait over another, swimming is another example. I'm sure a lot of sports people develop in a particular sport as much to do with socio-economic reasons as physical reasons and a lot of [i]top[/i] sports people do tend to be from more developed countries where sport is better supported and funded. Equally, exceptional talents from less developed countries tend to be adopted into developed countries to further their journey to the top.