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Great intent, but the proof will be in the pudding, if just re-announced monies then we won't see much beyond what we have, but it needs some serious effort to provide infrastructure for all, pedestrians, cyclists and vehicles. Preferably segregated. Nottingham has made some efforts, but still a long way off with some dangerous parts of the city centre without lanes etc that you have to get through.
It could be a perfect opportunity to implement the measures needed to reduce pollution in cities (by not letting it build back up), encourage active travel (safely), improving public health at the same time, and changing habits. With a well thought out strategy now could be once in a generation chance to make a huge difference.
They could invest it in more Police traffic enforcement, more magistrates to enforce the reported offences, and more staff at DVLA to take away all those licenses when they hit 12 points.
I think you have a misplaced concern about where the problem lies.
There’s no absolute shortage of magistrates (they are after all only paid expenses so theoretically cheap); there have been massive building closures and the support staff within the Court service (who advise the mags, do the admin, run the buildings etc), have seen huge attrition.
DVLA arent the ones to decide if you get disqualified under totting up - that’s the magistrates. Resource has nothing to do with the number of people on 12+ points still driving. The bad news for people who find that abhorrent is that in times of economic crisis the appeal courts have previously decided that the financial impact of losing your license is something relevant to take into account- and I expect there will be lots of people (perhaps with some underlying medical condition) emphasising that they couldn’t use public transport because of the virus risk.
Where there are funding issues is within the prosecution service, and in legal aid. Meaning that cases often get dropped because of errors in admin or deadlines being hit, or (often the least capable) people trying to defend themselves and clogging up the courts with cases that end up costing the public purse more than if we’d just paid for a few hours of a solicitors time.
What they might need is some realistic alternative to fines. If someone is on low income struggling to make ends meet every week/month anyway then a fine often becomes a punishment on their children rather than the offender. Hence why fines end up being paid at crazy low rates like £5/fortnight; add to that the situation in England where prosecution costs often end up far higher than the fine and you have a message that traffic offences are trivial.
Without doubt if you are worried about road safety then you need more enforcement or at least proactive visibility of those who can enforce, but I don’t think magistrates/dvla are going to be complaining if you do. In reality with so little road use for the last 7 weeks they will probably be rather quiet. But you’d want that even to enforce all the new found Lycra louts who discover that when on a bike (or escooter) they can terrorise pedestrians.
UK compared to Holland and also major cities in Australia (where I have spent time) is night and day. We’re 40 years behind.
Not everywhere
Here in MK we have an awesome segregated cycle network that covers then entire city (robots permitting)
I've not been to MK, but I can't imagine anywhere in the UK (New Towns included) comes even remotely close to the level of infrastructure they have in Holland.
Almost every road and street has an alternative cycle way, or infrastructure designed to make cycling on the road safer. They are generally separated from both vehicles and pedestrians. And it's not just in the cities, you could take a 6 year old child out with you and cycle to pretty much any destination you like in relative safety. Cyclists are given priority at junctions. Many roads even have an alternative road running alongside them (not some crappy cycle path, but an actual road, mainly for cyclists to use). Wherever you want to go is just effortless and requires zero thought or concern for your own safety.
Spend any amount of time cycling there and you will quickly see why everyone else does.
given the shit weather in this country its a waste of cash. People don’t want to ride in the wet going to work.
And yet they have a similar climate in Holland...
Yourguitarhero - problem with those Edinburgh changes is they are a temporary measure and presumably revert to the old way as soon as lockdown is lifted?
Anagallis_arvensis has it bang on - cycle paths with giveways at every crossing point, ridiculous street furniture or a randomly placed wheely bins just become impossible to use. Ironically fairly easy to fix with the right design philosophy and clarity of purpose.
New signage announced. That should do it.
given the shit weather in this country its a waste of cash. People don’t want to ride in the wet going to work
Aye mass cycling only works in sub tropical cities like Copenhagen, Reykjavik and Amsterdam.
There are actually very few properly wet minging days, especially if you live on the east or south of the country.
And as CV is showing spending hours a week sedentary in a metal box is not good for you, vs facing some light drizzle.
I think you have a misplaced concern about where the problem lies.
I think you've misplaced the seriousness of my comments. Having just read "The Secret Barrister" I'm well aware of the problems of the system, as well as having numerous friends in various parts of the process from copper to magistrate.
And frankly, the economic argument against bans is easily dealt with. An automatic one month ban the first time you hit 12 points. Your job protected - up to you if you take annual leave or unpaid leave if you really can't work in that time.
It's a punishment. It's meant to inconvenience you. It's meant to make you understand how important it is to keep your license so that Phoebe can get to ballet lessons, your nan can be taken to hospital check ups and that you stop endangering other road users.
People don’t want to ride in the wet going to work.
Some people, not all people. Also, just checked the stats, 230 dry days a year here. If people are happy to only cycle on those days I'll take it.
How many of us using Netherlands as the example of how good cycling infrastructure can be have ridden there? I have several times when there with work, it's good, there is great provision and segregation, however there is also one key difference in their law. That of presumed responsibility for the driver in any collision; I recall a Dutch colleague saying this leads to the younger members of the population riding recklessly as they know the car etc has to yield and they take risks. Granted nothing on the scale you see here with some cyclists being reckless, I guess you will always have that.
Lots of moaning and cynicism and zero suggestions for how we can help support said transition.
recall a Dutch colleague saying this leads to the younger members of the population riding recklessly as they know the car etc has to yield and they take risks.
If you are going to drive around in 2 tons of SUV the risk should be on your head is my policy. The risks to pedestrians and cyclists are because of cars and not the other way around. Drivers are the new smokers.
Absolutely Rydster, not saying it's the wrong approach. Change in mindset for all road users needed. It was just something that stuck with me, that there are issues that they too experience.
I'd like to hear your suggestions Fatmountain. Personally, tax incentives for workplaces to go cycling/ running/ walking to work friendly: showers, lockers, secure storage. We lobbied hard for it when we moved, not perfect but it's got a good uptake. Greater push for and perhaps greater tax benefits of C2W schemes. Universal roll-out of workplace parking levies. Fund properly public transport to all areas of the country, especially those with very low provision presently. Just a start..
Some practical ideas...
Reduce 30mph speed limits to 20mph (and enforce them).
Tax breaks to put changing facilities into businesses (deducted from their tax bill so no upfront cost or admin).
No VAT on bikes.
Those three would make cycling to work more appealing to everyone, and only the speed limit change would need any real work on behalf of Govt. The others would pretty much going run themselves. Throwing money at a few bike lanes won't change much, and its geographically too limited. Plus all capital projects now cost so much its barely worth doing them anymore. Better off creating change through changing the way we behave.
Some Edinburgh changes are temporary, but the majority are permanent - they were planned for later in the year but are being brought forward
If you look at the list in this article ( https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/council/major-edinburgh-roads-set-be-shut-have-pavements-widened-or-bus-lanes-added-improve-active-travel-council-announce-2847270) it says which are temp and which aren't.
The Mound closure isn't in that list, but my pal (who works for Sustrans in the city liasing with the council) was telling me about it yesterday
I recall a Dutch colleague saying this leads to the younger members of the population riding recklessly as they know the car etc has to yield and they take risks.
Of course, it's no utopia, and you will see the same reckless behaviour you see from humans anywhere else in the world. You will also see the same emotive behaviour in response to it, often blown well out of proportion or with little basis in fact (something that is not unique to the UK)
Amsterdam is a bit mental, and I'm not even going to go into mopeds in cycle lanes, but away from the hustle and bustle it's an absolute joy and I'd challenge anyone to find a better environment anywhere else in the world that so fairly and efficiently distributes infrastructure for all users, benefitting everyone.
Improve the state of our roads. I cycle to work 3 days a week and the roads are getting worse and worse. Any repairs are done as cheaply as possible and don't last wrong. A greater police presence would help, unless I'm out on my motorbike, of course.
Education for drivers about the needs of cyclists and stronger punishments for thos who break the laws. How hard is it to drive within the law. Put your bloody phone down and concentrate. If you need your licence, drive accordingly dont plead hardship when you're carelessness catches up with you.
I lived in the center of Haarlem for about a year. I lived on one of the busiest shopping streets leading to the main square, yet it was peaceful with chatter and the occasional bike bell (bar the cathedral bells) . The cycling infrastructure there was excellent, but their culture and society is also very different. It's not just the network that allows for more bikes, they have restrictions on business practices and scheduled times for car access to certain areas. As a society they have more consideration and respect for each other, and they acknowledge each others presence and an individuals rights; it's not something I can sum up easily in a few words.
I cycled from Haarlem to Utrecht, Den Hague and Amsterdam, whilst the level land certainly enables longer journeys than in the UK, it was the cycle network that makes it possible. The only time cycling felt sketchy was in Amsterdam, because of British tourists. It's easy to learn the rules of the road, they will tell you when you get it wrong.
I’ve not been to MK, but I can’t imagine anywhere in the UK (New Towns included) comes even remotely close to the level of infrastructure they have in Holland.
Almost every road and street has an alternative cycle way, or infrastructure designed to make cycling on the road safer. They are generally separated from both vehicles and pedestrians. And it’s not just in the cities, you could take a 6 year old child out with you and cycle to pretty much any destination you like in relative safety. Cyclists are given priority at junctions. Many roads even have an alternative road running alongside them (not some crappy cycle path, but an actual road, mainly for cyclists to use). Wherever you want to go is just effortless and requires zero thought or concern for your own safety
It's not dedicated cycle routes here in mk , but very wide shared pedestrian and cycle routes (redways) & every major road has underpasses . I can get to anywhere in the city cycling with my kids (4-9 years) and we have maybe 3-4 minor roads to cross
https://twitter.com/CultureMK/status/1013861210717122560?s=19
Just a bit of pie in the sky pondering during my tea break - what if HS2 was cancelled? I wonder how many changes could be made to transport infrastructure to make it more bike friendly with £106 billion?
p.s. I’m not holding my breath on HS2 being cancelled, as too many snouts already in the trough.
I don't understand the antipathy to HS2. It's weird and irrational like people get off on just opposing for the sake of it. Similar to people getting apoplectic that a protected cycle lane has been constructed in their area.
It's just a rail line and significantly less impactful vs a new motorway for example. We have a lot of rail lines in this country so why not one more to help us catch up with other countries?
I don’t understand the antipathy to HS2. It’s weird and irrational like people get off on just opposing for the sake of it.
I'm broadly in favour of infrastructure improvements and the rail network is desperately in need of capacity increases but HS2 was costed at £56 billion in the 2015 budget and is now estimated at £106 billion. Apart from the environmental damage of construction, HS2 themselves say it will be a net carbon contributor for the next 100+ years. The benefit/cost ration was originally estimated at 1.8 so even in purely financial terms it's looking dubious unless the benefits have managed to increase as dramatically as the costs. I don't think it's weird and irrational to believe it's definitely in need of transparent scrutiny.
I don’t understand the antipathy to HS2.
I think its mainly down to the cost. They're spending 10 lines worth of money to build a line that the country doesn't really need. 10 regional railway projects would probably deliver far greater value for the country than a single London-centric railway upgrade.
A net emission of one gram of carbon over the next hundred years makes it a net carbon contributor. That not a very useful metric. If that was our criteria to do anything then we wouldn't build a single home.
What would be rational is for opponents of HS2 to formally articulate their own transport strategy and why it shouldn't involve high-speed rail. That might put to bed suspicions of NIMBYism.
I’m broadly in favour of infrastructure improvements and the rail network is desperately in need of capacity increases but HS2 was costed at £56 billion in the 2015 budget and is now estimated at £106 billion. Apart from the environmental damage of construction, HS2 themselves say it will be a net carbon contributor for the next 100+ years. The benefit/cost ration was originally estimated at 1.8 so even in purely financial terms it’s looking dubious unless the benefits have managed to increase as dramatically as the costs. I don’t think it’s weird and irrational to believe it’s definitely in need of transparent scrutiny.
Yes, even though my business stands a good chance of benefiting from the HS2 scheme, I think there are definitely better ways of increasing existing rail capacity and creating a more holistic, healthy and environmentally friendly transport system. Problem with this country are the lobby groups that can override the National interest.
It's a capacity issue. There was a report about how it would free up even regional lines for more traffic but I can't be bothered to find it. High-speed rail is about much more than it's headline journey saving time.
I think there are definitely better ways of increasing existing rail capacity and creating a more holistic, healthy and environmentally friendly transport system.
That may be true but otoh could be an uninformed opinion. Do you have a link to any studies?
I don’t understand the antipathy to HS2. It’s weird and irrational like people get off on just opposing for the sake of it.
Well, given how the virus has shown that we might not need to be able to get from Birmingham to London 10 minutes quicker for a meeting. See also the third Heathrow runway.
I'm all in favour of improving our transport infrastructure. I've just never been convinced HS2 was the most cost effective way of doing it.
Boris learned one thing during his mayoral adoption of Red Ken's rentabikes, there are a few votes to be scored by paying lip service to "cyclists" so why not toss some money their way, it might help him later.
It's a vague announcement with some "nice ideas" sprinkled in, but I'm not totally clear on it's purpose or even who this money will be directed towards?
One might assume local councils but then the article states that taking pressure off of public transport is part of the intent, in which case a proportion going to the likes of sustrans to maintain/upgrade routes between towns and cities might make sense too. That also suggests no effort to try and grow bike/train/bike journeys by increasing bike carriage provision.
Plus bike servicing vouchers? What would a "basic service" cost these days? I think Grant Shapps might get a nasty surprise when he discovers he's spunked half a billion quid on the man hours required to keep a fleet of neglected apollos, pulled from the back of sheds, rolling for an extra six months...
£2bn sounds like a big number but what is it actually going on? "popup bike lanes"? Money to "make more bike fixing facilities available."? Eh aren't these already available commercial services?
And What’s the time frame? The next 6 months or the next 6 years?
I can see it being pissed away on white paint for pavements and vouchers to fix Dad's pub bike... I'd like to be wrong, but I doubt I am.
I’m all in favour of improving our transport infrastructure. I’ve just never been convinced HS2 was the most cost effective way of doing it.
What is?
Sorry I didn't mean strategies, but what can you actually do about it? I write to my local councillors to convince them that we need better cycle infrastructure and can donate to Cycling UK, but any other ideas?
Here on Wirral we got this on a 4 lane dual carriagewy 30 mph speed limit, with a segregated cycle lane running on the footway,and also another 2 lane road running parallel,going past some flats that the locals living there objected to trucks going legally past their windows if the the carriageway that the bike lane has been put on was permanently closed, trucks would be serving 3 supermarkerts further up this road .
given the shit weather in this country its a waste of cash. People don’t want to ride in the wet going to work.
Utter drivel.
Second most prominent article on Thr Sun front page today refers to roads being shut down outside schools to try and put an end to 'the schoolrun' as schools reopen. Advice is to cycle, walk, scoot or travel in by spacehopper!
Article then takes on a very positive tone with regards cycling, even being nice to Sadiq Kahn, who has suggested that he expects to see an up to 10 fold increase in miles cycled and a 5 fold increase in walking.
This is the Sun ffs.
Changes to attitudes to transport mobility will be driven (pun intended) buy immediate practical concerns rather than politics or ideology.
Might be time to stop moaning and open up a bicycle repair shop maybe? There's going to be a lot of punctures to be fixed.
Second most prominent article on Thr Sun front page today refers to roads being shut down outside schools to try and put an end to ‘the schoolrun’ as schools reopen. Advice is to cycle, walk, scoot or travel in by spacehopper!
I almost don't believe you! 🙂
The local (private) school run near my house was basically a mile long row of obscene luxury tanks parked on the destroyed 'grassy' verge with their sole occupant head down on their iphone, all idling away, releasing clouds of poisonous exhaust fumes outside a building packed with their own children. I used to cycle past it every day and just couldn't fathom such a sight of selfishness/stupidity.
I want to believe this is the start of major national improvements (and yes something is better than nothing). Having lived in this country all my life, rarely has such national sea change been achieved since Victorian and post Victorian times and has always lagged behind other nations of similar economic standing.
Most of the modern interventions have been chronically under-funded (as in this instance), short sighted, begrudged/sabotaged by competing interests and poorly managed. Implemented in a sporadic piecemeal manner like splatting a turd with a cricket bat.
The fundamental lack of respect endemic in British society, the manipulators who both encourage and exploit it are the cancer preventing real progression in this country.
I’m all in favour of improving our transport infrastructure. I’ve just never been convinced HS2 was the most cost effective way of doing it.
What is?
I don't know, I'm not an expert in the subject. I understand the argument about it being the best way to improve wider capacity, but I'm not convinced - given the virus has shown that business travel and commuting can be reduced - that the need for that wider capacity will still be there, and therefore I am not convinced that the money couldn't be better spent on improving more local rail connectivity, or broadband to make homeworking better, or cycle lanes, or actually maintaining roads or hoverboards
Just because I don't know what the right alternative to HS2 is in our changing world does not necessarily mean that HS2 must therefore be correct.
EVs get a purchase subsidy and many other perks like free parking. I'll believe they are serious about encouraging cycling when VAT is removed on bikes and E Bikes. Personally I'd like to see E bikes cut off speed increased to 20mph. Makes keeping up with urban traffic in many situations possible.
Not far off normal traffic levels on tonights commute home, nobody else on bikes despite me going the long way home.
See what tomorrow brings but i expect to be the only one as usual. It was good whilst it lasted.