I've always wanted a Defender and may finally have the opportunity.
It will be a second car for only occasional use, I cycle to work every day and wife uses the main car, Landy will be for picking the kids up from nursery when the weather is too rubbish for bike trailer or sticking muddy bikes in the back.
I know about higher tax and poor mpg but am prepared to accept that. There is a guy locally selling a 10 year old 110 with 109k on the clock, seems keenly priced. I know squat all about under the bonnet stuff, what big service jobs do I need to look out for and anything in particular I need to check out when looking at the car?
what do I need to look out for?
Rust!
wheels on each corner
fuel stations.
Look out for low flying pigeons! Little fu(k3r5!!
Something else, I had an 09 Defender last year, hands down the worst ride and most dreadful seating position ever...
High mileage 4x4,avoid !
Have you ever driven one? They are horrendous to drive.
A HiLux with a big trailer
2nd the above. They are really terrible on the road. Hard work even on the motorway. Great fun in the rough but are you actually going to do that?
Right 10 year old 110 so thats a 2000 on a X?
So a 110 TD5 if you want to pick kids up assume its a County Station Wagon (5 door)
TD5 is a great engine and 105k is nothing, oil can creep up the loom to the ECU other than that they have proven to be bullet proof depsite the scepticism. It may just be it's ended up being Land Rovers best ever engine.
Everything is cheap on a Landy so running them is fine and most of it can be fixed easily apart from 1 thing
Chassis Rust! 10 year old this shouldn't be an issue but look out for it, especially the rear cross member.
The bodywork will prob be pitted at the base of the doors etc. This is just electrolite corrosion ali touching steel looks manky but thats about it.
They are bomb proof and ace! not much to worry about on them
Check the history, they like to be serviced and are (due to meccano nature) very very easy to ring / clock / etc!
Marmite cars, I accept what everybody says about them being crap to drive and they kinda are but I just love mine to bits.
[i]anything in particular I need to check out[/i]
Lengthy pro/anti 4x4/faux-by-faux threads on STW.... 😉
As stated, RUST!
Check [s]rear 1/4, outriggers, sills, door bottoms, footwells, bulkhead, body mounts[/s] [b]everything made of steel[/b]... Mechanically simple and parts cost sack all, but if you can't weld it yourself a rusty one will cost you a lot of money.
When I replace mine I'll either buy a rusty one and rebuild on a galv chassis or buy one someone has already done.
High mileage 4x4,avoid !
It's a landy! At 109k it's barely run in!
Great stuff, thanks
Although not mechanically minded, I am fortunate to be friendly with a local, reliable and cheap mechanic. I'll take him along to have a look over it with me when I view it.
I'm not fussed about the driving position, handling etc, I'd be surprissed if I do more than 2k a year in it. If I'm going any distance, I'll take the S-max.
Just need to work on MrsSinatra now for final (budget) permission!!
Blimey, surprised that Hora hasn't yet voiced an opinion yet...
😉
Theft. Above all else, the main problem with Land Rovers (especially tidy Defenders) is you can almost guarantee someone will try to steal it. Not kidding.
Other than that, even though they soak your right knee every morning at the first left turn, they are without a shadow of a doubt the best cars in the world and if you get the bug, you'll enjoy every mile.
For driving enjoyment I'd take a 90 on mud tyres over any sports car you can care to mention.
Paul. Seriously mate, go and take one for a drive before splashing cash on it. They are truly horrendous to sit in let alone drive.
I was sat in a yard of seemingly 50+ landys last week at Lix...rows and rows of the things.
This one is best.
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Paul. Seriously mate, go and take one for a drive before splashing cash on it. They are truly horrendous to sit in let alone drive.
If you hate it you can sell it again.
Think mine has lost maybe £500 in 5 years
Rather than plump for an off-roader that can be driven on-road, buy an on-roader that can be taken off-road.
Can recommend a late model Freelander diesel; decent onroad and fine offroad, plus will tow most things.
if you cant do your own maintenance - AVOID !!!
Rather than plump for an off-roader that can be driven on-road, buy an on-roader that can be taken off-road.Can recommend a late model Freelander diesel; decent onroad and fine offroad, plus will tow most things.
Yea, but freelanders are teh gayness
Had one , lots of rust , got stolen, wouldnt by one again
I've got a mate who developed an updated version of those tracks.
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[i]Yea, but freelanders are teh gayness [/i]
Be careful, I've just had a final warning for making comments about gender!
And its the wifes'
It's a landy! At 109k it's barely run in!
With the engine I'd agree with you but there's a whole load of cogs & sprockets underneath that aren't half as durable.....
Surely if you weld and steel joist/cow catcher to the front - you won't have to look out out for anything ?
If you need to scratch an itch go with a Alfa. At least you'll have a good driving experience inbetween the 'what next' and 'cost'.
If you even vaguely like how a car steers and feels, avoid.
If you need it for regular dirt track access to your house in the sticks- possibly consider this.
They are not bombproof and someone may nick yours and break it down to sell on ebay to the thriving market (thirst?) for spare parts of other Landrover enthusiasts.
If anyones doesn't like what I've written your not really a Landrover owner but a townie who wants to pretend to be one. Sure you'll post pics up of yours in snow etc until you drive home back to suburbia 😉
😆
I kept on having that itch...
Have you ever driven one? They are horrendous to drive.
Driving one on tarmac REALLY put me off. Defenders fill a section in their manufacturers line up. For customers who want a vehicle to on the motorway but still have some off road ability they have the Disco. For mostly offroad use etc- Defender.
You wouldnt buy a jump bike and do 30mile XC rides on it would you? Fit for purpose. Unless your an off-road enthusiast, farmer or live in the wilds why else would you buy it?!
I had the misfortune to have one as a company vehicle for a year a number of years ago where it was taken seriously off road every day. Compared to any of the decent Japanese offroaders they are crap off road too.
Telling someone to scratch a Land Rover itch with an Alfa is ridiculous. It's like telling someone to scratch an Orange Five itch with a Pinarello.
You make a valid point about theft though. Land Rover owners don't seem to understand that they fuel the eye watering theft rates that blights the marque. Main reason I stopped using mine as a daily driver. Fed up of worrying about it going missing.
As an side (cos even though I'm no longer in the fold I do still love them) despite the frequent cries of [i]'they're not even anything special off road' [/i]you'll hear, they are. They really are.
Lean, approach, breakover and departure angles, wading depth and axle articulation are all class leading, by some margin (Jeep included). Proper 50/50 split permanent 4WD with centre diff lock, beam axles and low rate coils - honestly, out of the factory, nothing can touch them this side of a Unimog or Pinzgauer. The compromises inherent in a Defender are there for a reason.
Whether you're prepared to put up with them is another issue. And to justify why you would be is as difficult and redundant as justifying your love of riding bikes though mud all weekend to incredulous work colleagues.
If you want a 4x4 you can't do much worse than look at what those who have the most extreme requirements buy. It's either got to be a 20 year old rusty Hi-lux or a Beetle. Although usually the beetle doesn't normally have a machine gun strapped to the roof.
HAve you consideed a Jeep Cherokee? They are cheap as chips and much better off road
Fit for purpose. Unless your an off-road enthusiast, farmer or live in the wilds why else would you buy it?!
Stop talking sense! This is a guy who's considering buying a Land Rover when he knows bugger all about cars, doesn't drive much, will use it primarily for taking his kids to school and occasionally carrying a muddy bike. Is there a vehicle [i]less [/i]fit for purpose than a Defender?
Some of the posts since are 😆 yet bang on 😯
Interms of itch. All of us men have that yearning in the back of our head to buy something unusual/not entirely fit for purpose..
If its only occassional use and bike duties occassionally and you live somewhere where cars pickup parking dings etc - why not:
[url= http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201020359081182/sort/priceasc/usedcars/model/940/make/volvo/page/1/radius/200/quicksearch/true/postcode/g38ag?logcode=p ]Volvo 940[/url]
This is a guy who's considering buying a Land Rover when he knows bugger all about cars, doesn't drive much, will use it primarily for taking his kids to school and occasionally carrying a muddy bike. Is there a vehicle less fit for purpose than a Defender?
All true, but I want one and that is good enough justification for me. My money, my choice!
The seats etc are good for child seats/small children?
Compared to any of the decent Japanese offroaders they are crap off road too
Actually that's BS,Defenders may be money pits, but they rarely get left behind in the off road stakes.....:FACT:
Most the competition can't even get around the "Jungle Track" they have where they're built......Another :Fact:
Check for awesomeness and it being a fun car without being fast.
Check for a great Landy community - try LRO.com for answers to any questions.
Check to make sure that I haven't been driving it in the North Sea ( I really shouldn't have ).
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Check that it's been properly washed inside and out:
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Oh and if you buy one and go off roading in a huge Polish military base, remember to engage diff lock when navigating the water section of the tank training course:
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slight edit -
I got stuck in the middle of this ( and it was my fault, not the vehicle's ):
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They are crap and ace!
And that should be the strap line...
Mine
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buy one-they're brilliant. Im driving it to Cape Town next year.
They're not that bad to sit in or drive unless you're a princess and the pea type person, but they are not a "car" as such - on road they're not designed for driving at speed or rapid direction changes, and steering them is more like guiding. But they're fun all the same. Not a car for those who dont want to be involved in the drive, or want a sports car. That said, the old hilux surfs and landcruisers are pretty nice on road and fairly comfy, but a lot more costly to look after and a bit more sensitive.
FrankSinatra
A little inspiration:
RustyNissanPrairie,
If you are driving to Capetown don't leave home without your orange lion suit:
Hi,
My father inlaw is a farmer and has many landrovers.
They are epic for offroading (with decent tyres) they will go up pretty much anything with enough ground clearance and scary gradient.
That is what they are good at, and pulling trailers.
He was an engineer and reckons they cost a bomb to run unless you can do it yourself.
He won't take my young kids in the landrover as doesn't think the seatbelts are up to it.
(As hora said. The seats etc are good for child seats/small children?)
In the farming world where 4x4 are requred most people are buying modern crew cab pickups.
Why not an estate car?
Im an engineer and have workshop access to tinker on it at work. A properly maintained Lanny to the correct service schedule is no more unreliable than any other car.
A badly maintained or abused example however WILL break the bank unless you know how to fully strip and service sometimes heavy and complex assemblies. An example is a good friend who unwisely didnt take me to look at a nice and shiny 52 plate Defender XS that he bought. It cost him £2k in parts &labour for a service and for the front axle to be rebuilt with new swivels, and four new calipers all round.
Dont be fooled by 'cheap' parts costs-what you see in the magazines from the likes of Paddocks or Craddocks etc is usually Britpart branded crap-yes it is cheap but it will fail very quickly again, ONLY EVER fit genuine LR or OEM sourced parts which obviously cost more.
However I love mine and wouldnt swop it for anything.
What other car can you do this in on a Sunday and then drive to work Monday morning?
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What other car can you do this with?-not have you wife fix it but be able to cook on the engine?
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Quick motorway services snack-chicken breast wrapped in Parma ham and garlic butter, 20 miles at 60mph. (Garlic prawns only take from Lee Quarry to Hebden Bridge, bacon butties are about the same distance)
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What if this IS your Monday morning office;
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crash out at the end of tiring day with an ice cold beer from your onboard fridge freezer (Engel)
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http://overland-live.blogspot.com/2009/11/expedition-land-rovers-through.html
I'm a one third owner for this....
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We've had it about 6 months, it passed the MOT no worries, costs 190ish a year to tax, does high 20's to the gallon on the road, and it's great fun. Drove from Manc to Reeth in it the other weekend, no issues.
Oh, and the reg plate was already on it!
I'd whole heartedly say scratch that Defender itch!
Franksinatra: Sorry you've not had a more useful response on here - slightly inevitable I'm afraid!
Have a look on www.landroveraddict.com/smf or www.defender2.net.
There are guides on there about what to look for when buying and, more helpfully, if you offer a few beer tokens someone with a wealth of experience will probably come a look at the one you have in mind with you - they did for me when I started out. I'd offer myself but I see you're in the Scottish Borders - I'm in Surrey, sorry chap!
Daily drive or not, if you've got the landrover bugyou'll love a 110 - good luck!
hp_source
You got seats in the back of that?
Two sideways facing ones with lap belts by the windows, they fold up when you need the space. the rest is just carpeted/trimmed out.
Honestly? Unless you need a Defender (and very few do), a Discovery is a lot better as an all-round vehicle that's still hugely capable off-road.
A good Disco II (and there are some VERY bad ones out there) will cost a good deal less than a similar-age Defender, will be a lot more car0-like, and will still cimb any mountain, ford any stream etc etc
My 20 month old son shouts "Land Rover" whenever he sees one - and it's NEVER another 4x4 mistaken for one - cool! I drove modded 110s for years as part of a Geotec Engineering job - they got pushed VERY hard indeed.
We nearly got a new 90XS after a 24 test drive (wife also took her driving test in a 90 pick up and had a couple - both white, both bought new) - my thoughts were:
It's pretty gutless for almost £30k
It's very draughty inside.
The new interior is a big improvement
Very noisy
Looked DAMN cool.
In the end we got a Jimny - now before falling over laughing... inlaws rave about the one they have (having had many LR Defenders) because:
Same "performance" (ahem) as a Defender
Smaller overhangs and better approach/departure angles
Better ground clearance
Much lighter
Never break down (the inlaws Defenders often did as did our site ones when I was a Geotec engineer)
Have more "safety" features (but still hardly safe)
So far, we have been everywhere in our Jimny that a Defender can go (if not modded) - very severe greenlanes and worse
It cost peanuts to run.
However the Defender can tow far more and has much more torque and I will always like them!
This is my mates recently rebuilt landy, he's had it since 1990ish. It is great fun.[img] 
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having said that my brothers Toyota version is as good if not better off road and better on road.[img] 
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I had the land rover itch from the age of 15. It took me until the age of 23 before I had finished uni and could afford to buy one. a 2002 TD5 90. The best decision I have ever made. As has been said already, the depreciation is negligible. Mileage isnt as much of an issue as people say either, as long as there is evidence of regular servicing.
They're also not "awful" to sit in or drive etc. You get used to it. Im 6 foot and have no real issues with leg room.
I've also learnt loads when it comes to repairs and maintenance. Most of the jobs are do-able, with a bit of research (Haynes Book of Lies and the forums on lro.com and lr4x4.com where they have comprehensive tech archives with step by step photographs). Failing that, it wouldnt surprise me if you didnt find someone local on the forum who would come and give you a hand! If youre ever in the NE with a problem, let me know!
Ignore the impracticalities. Theyre unbelievable cars.
Dickydutch - where are you located in the NE?
I'm from near Northallerton, but earn my living on the other side of the pond in Den Haag.
Cranberry. I live in Sunderland at the moment for my sins.
Are you not called cranberry on one of the forums too?
I sold a lightbar to someone in Northallerton a while back - that wasn't you per chance was it?!
I know defenders inside out (Done a few rebuilds, have 3 pals that are specialists, former committee member of Scottish Land Rover Owners club) I was once what you call an enthusiast.
Chassis - Look for rust. Take a screwdriver and tap the steel all along it and listen for dull tones. Often sign of rust eating its way out. Check the rear cross member (sort of rear bumper) for rust. Also outriggers (box section/tubes that come out the side of the chassis) for rust also the middle and back 2 of there are you seatbelt maintaining points. these call all be replaced but expensive.
Engine - Go for a 200tdi/300tdi/TD5. the new Puma engine is terrible IMHO. Do not got for a 2.5 td or NA. Too slow. Listen for tapping, check oil (if thick and gloopy, run) and water level. Make sure fan works, and all arms intact. Look at radiator and check for the fins and make sure the majority are intact. If not there might be cooling problems which mean the chances are the head is f@@ked. Also lift oil cap and smell for burning/look for a rainbow. Again chances are head is ****ed.
Electrics - check all lights work as you would expect. They are notorious for bad earths. Easy to resolve if you know how. Chances are on an older one fuel gauge wont work. Common fault.
Gear box. Drive up and down all gears in both high and low box as well at in Diff lock (if it has it. TD5 onwards wont)if you don't get drive in any gears chances are transfer box is done. Check for clutch slipping and listen for clunking. Take on to grass, some stones, pull away quick and get someone to check all 4 wheels spin when out of diff lock. If not Diff/Half shafts could be needing replaced.
Bulkhead (bit under windscreen) - Look all over for rust of bubbles. Again can be replaced but very, very big job.
Interior - Check there is some. Don't worry about this too much, again check all (most) things that are important to you work.
If you are in the Glasgow/Edinburgh or anywhere close by I'm happy to come for a look at any you fancy. I also know a few dealers that I can put you on to.
They are great fun cars, take alot of love (and often money) to run. there are some absolute tatties out there so beware. You get used to the drive very quickly and will have great fun, if you have the patience. Enjoy.
good checklist that Xan. I got carried away with justifying it for the poster!!
Sunderland? I hope you at least enjoyed the sinning.
I'm also on LRO.com as Cranberry. No, the lightbar wasn't for me.
FrankSinatra - register on LRO.com and say hello - there'll be someone near you that will take a look at a Landy with you in return for a beer or two - it could save you from buying a vehicle in poor condition.
This is all really good stuff, thanks for all of the comments.
Turns out the Land Rover I was going to look at is 19yrs old, not 10! Kind of shifts the balance a bit and not a project I'm able to take on.
Still have the itch and will scratch it, eventually...
xan - what's wrong with the new engine? Must admit I was a bit underwhelmed by it having driven 1000s of miles in td5 powered ones which felt better.
There's something about spending almost £30k on a vehicle powered by a Ford Transit engine that grates...!
xan - what's wrong with the new engine? Must admit I was a bit underwhelmed by it having driven 1000s of miles in td5 powered ones which felt better.
This is only my opinion but I think it is hugley underpowered. Drove one a year ago and it just didnt feel like a landy. I know someone that uses it as a workhorse and for towing and their description is that it wouldn't pull you out of bed. I think the Puma engines are strong but just dont have the guts. Plus all the new fangled electronics make in no where near as good off road as the old 200/300 engine. To be fair the TD5 has even lost some of the "off road" appeal of the older ones.
Turns out the Land Rover I was going to look at is 19yrs old, not 10! Kind of shifts the balance a bit and not a project I'm able to take on
I wouldnt worry too much about age. My last one was a 1986 and I spent over 3k getting it perfect. It was in better condition than most of the 10 yo cars on the road. When it comes to landies dont go by age, go by condition. I have seen 4-5 yo cars that are rust buckets. As I said if you need help let me know. See your based in the borders so if there is anything you really fancy I am happy to combine a visit to see a car with a trip to one of the stanes.
I have heard that the 300 engine is probably the best.
A four pot 2.4 just seems a bit lame for a Defender even if the torque is higher and the bhp about the same as the td5 unit. The new engine is also VERY noisy!
I did like the "look" though and the new seat arrangement was much handier. This is the one we had for a day:
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franksinatra
Mines a 98R 300Tdi 110 Hard top with Side windows, roofrack and XS alloys.
2 Owners from new (Anglian Water & Me) done 80,000 miles, Full service history. It's done about 8000 miles with me over the past 4 years. (I don't drive much)
I think I'm gonna sell it 🙁 because I just don't use it enough. So if you do want a 10 (and a bit) year old one then let me know.
Otherwise I'll keep it.
I think if I were to replace my TD5 90, I'd probably go for a 110. Just that bit extra room for bikes.
Have owned Defender 90's (300tdi)for the best part of 10 years, still gives a grin when used on road and off road, use mine as the only car and its great. Yes they leak are thirsty, built crap etc, etc but there is something about them and the random people that come over and start talking landys when yer in the local supermarket carpark.
Seats are ok if yer no over 5'8 (which I'm not), have driven mine all round the UK and Scottish islands without (m)any issues. Even had the GF driving it off road for the first time, which was scary for me as the passenger.
Dont think I would be without one now, and it got me home everyday during the freaky Scottish winter.
I have heard that the 300 engine is probably the best.
Without a dout. Remove the EGR valve, turn up the turbo a bit, bigger intercooler and they are flying machines. A guy I know has a 300tdi Tomcat that can beat V8s. the late 300s with the ECU could be re-mapped at well, but they are hard to come by.
TD5 can take a fair bit of power too with the right mod's. Twisted performance and Jeremy Fern have turned out some pretty quick TD5s.
The TD5 (especiallt the XS with the Aircon dash) are much nicer inside than the old ones, whilst still keeping that original look.
My mate is selling a 110 300tdi Hi Cap (perfect for bikes). new galvy chassis, newish 300tdi engine (4k miles), s reg, years MOT, 6 months tax, and full rebuild costing c £13k. Think he was looking for about £5.5 - £6k for it. Thats alot of car for not alot of money. Pic below. If your interested let me know and I can put you on to him.
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had this TUM 110 FFR for 7 years nearly,
brought it from the British army auctions@ witham specialist vehicles, it came green and completey full of sand and dust in places, 34000 mls on the clock when I brought it and on it's second engine.( should be noted that ffr stands for fitted for radios, it has a throttle lever like a choke so you can set the revs to run the radios or charge the batteries while parked up, putting quite a lot of extra wear on the engine,)
it has permanent 4 wheel drive and all the diffs etc, the base is built onto a beefier landrover chassis and looking underneath you can see the difference,
i haven't started it since new years day but i know just a turn of the key and a few pumps on the peddle and it will be off,
downsides include: 65mph top speed, 20 mpg 8O, funny looks from other drivers, the odd mistake by military convoys flashing at me etc etc.
plus points include: always having right of way on roundabouts, junctuons etc, you don't get much abuse from road rage drivers, scratches dont count, go anywhere ability, free shed 8O. washable interior,
it is for sale at the end of the summer, money is going to go on a newish 110 county 7 seater TD5 for summer jaunts to southern france and alps 😛
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Drove from Manc to Reeth in it the other weekend, no issues.
I've also learnt loads when it comes to repairs and maintenance.
😆
My mate is selling a 110 300tdi Hi Cap (perfect for bikes). new galvy chassis, newish 300tdi engine (4k miles), s reg, years MOT, 6 months tax, and full rebuild costing c £13k. Think he was looking for about £5.5 - £6k for it. Thats alot of car for not alot of money. Pic below. If your interested let me know and I can put you on to him.
I know someone who may be interested - can you get in touch : jwoffle [AT} goog lemail DOTcom - cheers.
😆 @ Konabunny
I've spent a few hours tinkering too! But, touch wood a bit of prep/checking/maintenance has so far done the trick, although that may be more luck than anything else.
Woffle - YGM!!
If you really must, I think these are ubercool (don't pretend to be a faux-farmer like a car-Fakinger with a defender) Instead of you sisters jeans, fake-farmer-Defenderman wears faux-flat caps, faux-checked country shirts and hang out thinking they look 'farmer old-money to their neigbhours' or kid your neighbours that you must have a rich-land owner farmer away from your pokey flat in Bristol.
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This however is for the discerning man who is respected by all I bet..:
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I used to drive a 110td.
Slowest, noisiest, ,thirstiest, most uncomfortable, most expensive, least reliable car I have ever had.
It was great fun though and I miss it.
Hora, stop, please. Your choices of both the Volvo and RR are perfect but my missus doesn't get them 🙁
I know, mrshora thinks of black shiny Audi S3's and all I can think of is big load space and a strong wearing interior with 90's-retro looks...
Just bought my little boy a 1/32nd scale 90 TD5 hardtop - he loves it!
I have a open rear cab Landrover (90?) with a date stamp 1975 from my childhood sat on my desk.
Land Rovers are for poor people
Buy a Range Rover FFS.