[Closed] These smart meter ads

I dont see how they help you save money or energy. Do they really think people will wander round their homes turning things on and off to see what, if any, noticeable difference it will make

It's not going to save me any money. If I want the hob or the telly on, I'll switch them on. If I get cold, I'll put the central heating on. If I want a shower, I'll take a shower.

In fact, if they later decide I'm doing these things at peak time with a smart meter, it will likely cost me more.

I see no benefit to me, so I'm not having them.

They will force every bodies hand by offering better tarrifs to smart metered houses (it's already started) and making it a stipulation if you move provider.

I suppose getting rid of meter readers is more efficient.

Chrismac  - that’s the exact phenomenon that a smart meter brings about.  The savings are purely based on user behaviour changes when you can ‘see’ the energy being used.

The ads in our area say you can save up to 354kwh.  If that’s a 50:50mix of gas and electric then the average price per kwh will be 9p ish - 354 x .09 = £30.   I’m not sure that’s worth the hassle tbh.

What they don’t mention is that they block you from moving to cheaper tariffs at any other provider, and if you do move away, literally all you have is a very expensive energy meter in your house.

I don't get this.  They're being installed free, and they don't prevent anything as far as I'm aware.  What is possible is that the 'smart' features won't work with a different provider, but there's a new standard (I don't remember the exact term but it's something 2) which uses a centralised network and should work with any provider.

Further to that,

"SMETS2" is what you want.  Further reading from a randomly Googled supplier:  https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/smets-1-and-2-new-smart-meter-generation.html

there’s a new standard (I don’t remember the exact term but it’s something 2) which uses a centralised network and should work with any provider.

Yup they're moving to a standard. Handy little gadget is what I see.

Over my dead body.

A lot of people don’t realise how much money they are spending on energy.

Most people on here are pretty switched on and either a) already are clever enough to use energy wisely or b) earn enough money that they don’t care.

Smart meters are a good idea. When I got one a few years ago, one of those that clipped to your electricity cables it did inform me quite a bit. I’ve got a smart meter installed at my new house and I’ve used it to ascertain that my new house (quite big for the 2 of us) needs heating in a different way to our last house (very small) so i have found the most efficient way to use the heating but still be comfortable

People who have the tin foil hats on argue that they’ll be used to charge more at peak times - bring it on I say. Anything which stops people using so much energy is a good thing.

Same with water meters - I use so much less now it’s measured!!

In fact, if they later decide I’m doing these things at peak time with a smart meter, it will likely cost me more.

Get with the times great great great grandad! Economy7 has done this since the 70's.

I'm sure at some point they'll start doing clever stuff, but at that point they'll probably just put all the standard tariffs upto the max rate and offer the 'smart' metered energy as a discount.  And the current ones don't transmit in real time anyway, so they'd probably need to upgrade your meter again before then.

Do they really think people will wander round their homes turning things on and off to see what, if any, noticeable difference it will make

That's exactly what does happen, most people probably don't realise how expensive a shower actually is to run. My OH certainly doesn't when she set's it to monsoon and sits in the bottom of it shaving her legs for half an hour.

It’s not going to save me any money. If I want the hob...........I’ll switch them on.

So you're probably going to benefit from it, because it will tell you in real time how much more the hob costs Vs warming your porridge in the microwave.  Ditto next time some salesman says "You could save £250 a year by cavity wall insulation", you'll know what your current cost is so will have some context rather than heating being some proportion of whatever your total is including cooking and water.

I don’t get this.  They’re being installed free, and they don’t prevent anything as far as I’m aware.

Because when you go to almost any provider's website and get a quote, one of the first questions is "Do you have a Smart Meter?"

When you answer "yes", you're booted away from cheap tariffs and on to the standard ones.  Presumably you can only get the cheap ones if you have *their* smart meter installed.  They're all like that.

If I'm going to pay more it's not going to be to one of the big companies. Moved to ecotricity simply for the moral high ground. Especially since it wasn't me that had smart meters fitted in the first place.

TINAS, if memory serves, you work in a related industry. Funnily enough, so do I. So how about allowing someone else an opinion without being quite so condescending?

Most people on here are pretty switched on

Which is clearly the problem... (-:

Presumably you can only get the cheap ones if you have *their* smart meter installed.  They’re all like that.

So... get their meter installed?  For free?

I had one in my last house. Admittedly not in the UK so there was a standard for the meter mandated by the grid so no issues with switching tariffs.

it was quite cool to see the spike from the kettle going on in the morning but it did not make me change my habits. It did however let me choose a better tariff based on my usage and times. I used to get free energy from 8pm to 6am so did washing tumble drying for free at the time I normally did it

if they want smart meters all they will do is charge a meter reading fee to non smart houses. If you have to pay an extra 20quid a month plus admin fee (or whatever they decide) to have your meter reading recorded or take a free meter the meter will end up in the house.

So… get their meter installed?  For free?

They're not free. They're paid for by increasing the price of energy.

Ovo installed one in my house. I moved to bg and apparently now I have to give manual readings again because bg can't communicate with an ovo installed meter. Not very smart then is it. What a waste of time. No wonder everyone hates energy providers.

So… get their meter installed? For free?

Doesn't work like that. They'll only install their own meter if you don't have a smart meter already. There's a reasonable wait so you simply join the queue.

If you've already got a smart meter fitted by someone else, you're not allowed into the queue on the cheaper tariff and you're forever at the bottom of the list because there's no benefit to them to swap out one perfectly good meter with another (the number of smart meters installed doesn't go up).

So you join on the expensive product with no guarantee of a move onto the cheap tariff. If it was just a matter of doing the bloody obvious I like to think I'd already have tried it.

Ah, fair enough then.  I didn't know that.

It's costing a fortune, and I don't think the savings are ever going to repay the cost. Plus they don't tell me how much oil I'm using for the heating, so not that smart. I just ignore the emails and letters asking me to arrange a fitting.

After reading this thread I have some questions... starting from the beginning

who owns the cables in the ground?

i thought it was the National grid then the specific companies would pay a service charge based of usage (how I imagine railways or air traffic control works). Trouble is when you get a service installed you just pay the provider so I am not so sure any more.

who owns the meter?

Is it like the cables and underground stuff or is it owned by installing companies?

Is it different If you pay for it to be installed

like I said before where I was everything up to and including the meter was owned by the grid and subject to a service fee. It worked really well so there must be something fundamentally different in the Uk that is making this mess

TINAS, if memory serves, you work in a related industry. Funnily enough, so do I. So how about allowing someone else an opinion without being quite so condescending?

I make documentary TV (and have never worked in retail energy).

And I'm not entirely sure why us working in the same industry should prevent a difference of opinion, stop being so condescending!

My provider has gone through a list of reasons why I need to have my meter replaced by a smart meter, all bollocks. Especially the one about my current meter might be dangerous, and then threatening getting a court order or something to replace the meter without my permission. They've backed off from all this and now just bang on about how much saving I'll potentially make, and even then the illustration is only a few quid a year. Which is wiped out by the price rises that will kick in after the rules are relaxed, to pay for them.

And then once we have them all, the "smart" bit to the consumer is gloss, the real benefit is to the providers as they know exactly when you use electricity/gas the most and can tailor bills accordingly for a personalised peak rate. Good luck trying to compare them when everyone's on a custom rate specific to them.

And yeah, SMETS1 are still being rolled out and they're reluctant to use the new ones, partly to use up stock and partly because SMETS1 discourages switching.

8 million SMETS1 have been rolled out, only 500 SMETS2 and they're not rushing, but have to stop installing SMETS1 by October 2018.  https://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.html

My supplier keeps hounding me to have a smart meter fitted. Given they'll only fit one Mon-Fri, and it won't work with other suppliers I'm not going for it. I'm not wasting a days leave for something I don't want.

My supplier keeps hounding me to have a smart meter fitted. Given they’ll only fit one Mon-Fri, and it won’t work with other suppliers I’m not going for it. I’m not wasting a days leave for something I don’t want.

Imagine having to potentially do the same if you wanted to switch suppliers. People aren't going to bother. It's almost like guaranteed lock  in for 80 percent of your customers!

Lot of bolloxs in this thread

we had a smart meter installed when we where with British Gas, 3 months later switched to Scottish Power, on the cheapest tariff available in my area according to moneysavingexpert's energy club. Not once was I asked if i had a smart meter, it just stopped working reverted to being a normal meter, but it didn't stop me switching or getting the cheapest tariff

another 12 months and switched again to Avro, again the cheapest tariff possible (with no exit fees), again not asked if I had a smart meter

the British Gas smart meter doesn't work with Avro in terms of sending readings but the display does work in showing how much electricity I am using (cost isn't quite right as it's still set at the old BG tariff), gas doesn't seem to work though. It has been useful in estimating how much it costs to charge my new company car (£1.20ish for approx 20 miles)

Further cons is the accuracy of the smart display to the consumer is dubious (from the link I posted: "some experiments have shown that some smart meters over record the power used by up to 250% and some under record by 40 % depending on the power measurement technique used."), and while in theory estimated bills are gone that doesn't mean over charging for a period of the year in anticipation you'll use a certain amount later in the year will go away. They can still pre-charge based on an estimate of your future use. Smart meters don't make that information more accurate to them, only that they don't have so many estimated readings before they get an accurate real reading which adjusts it. That said I've noticed my provider is sending round a meter reader on a regular basis now.

it just stopped working reverted to being a normal meter, but it didn’t stop me switching or getting the cheapest tariff

Basically pointless having one though if you're going to switch providers as it's then a dumb meter. It will put some people off switching however, if the believe the smart bit is important to them.

If the gas and electric supplies are too far apart a sm can’t be fitted apparently. You could tell them that.

If the gas and electric supplies are too far apart a sm can’t be fitted apparently. You could tell them that.

Well being as they install one for gas and one for electric that excuse won’t work.

If this had been thought through they would have got the right meter first then done a street by street installation. Has to be far cheaper than random house by house.

I'll not be getting one until it's unavoidable. I know what electricity appliances use and I'll use them when I use them. I do things like LED bulbs and only part filling the kettle  because I know it saves money and takes no effort on my part. Doesn't need several hindred quids worth of meter to tell me.

And as already said, they aren't free. Consumers will pay through their bills.

"Ross Anderson, an engineering specialist at Cambridge University, said: “The roll-out had no realistic prospect of ever saving enough energy to pay for itself but Whitehall didn’t care as the costs are going to fall on the electricity bill payer, not the Treasury.

“There are no real benefits, except the PR benefit already harvested by Milliband, Clegg and Cameron; the costs fall on every household.”"

https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2018/02/06/smart-meter-roll-out-stalls/

I agree there's not really a convincing argument for them yet, after mine was installed I checked for a couple of days and now it just sits (display off) on a shelf - for me the only benefit is not having to record my meter details and upload them every so often (not exactly a big chore but something I failed to do on a number of occasions :p ).

The next gen stuff might be an improvement though, there was talk about being able to switch providers several times per day (to jump between various time-of-day tariffs). That said unless it's easily automated and utility companies can be trusted not to screw up the billing (lol!) it won't be of much use.

And another thing.

My mum 89. She can just about use a TV. I tried to explain what the 'smart' meter did, but she gave up listening after about 30 seconds, so the display is in the garage somewhere. What a total waste. (Which she will have to pay for.)

What the adverts mean, is that people are going 'ooh, SMART! that's for me' and calling in dodgy leccy engineers... like my local shop, who saved loads of money on electricity by the smart metre catching fire and burning part of his shop down, which had to close and lose days of business, then open back up with the cheap-to-run emergency lighting units... bargainous.

weve got one.

the missus got me to unplug the screen as the energy usage upset her.

I dont have to send them meter readings.

Bills gone down by a tenner.

Im happy.

Pointless and insane waste of £11Bn.

Actual cost is about £420 per house (times 25million in the UK).

Its not free (you will pay through your bill).

More info here:  various articles from El Reg

Having worked across 2 big suppliers smart meter programmes I can probably help dispel some myths and explain why what is happening with SMETS1 meters is happening.

At the beginning of each year each supplier has to demonstrate to BEIS and Ofgem how it will meet the 2020 deadline to fit smart meters, our licence condition requires that we take “all reasonable steps” to deploy to every customer. However there is no further definition of this phrase so it’s up to each supplier to interpret. At the end of each year the suppliers performance is reviewed by Ofgem and if the commitments made 12 months earlier have fallen off plan then a fine is imposed. (See EDF last month https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/edf-slapped-350000-fine-missing-12712081 ). Suppliers despratley want you to accept a smart meter so they avoid the wrath of BEIS and Ofgem, so despite the immaturity off SMETS2 they are compelled by their commitment to Ofgem to carry on deploying SMETS1 regardless. This is not driven by any anti-competitive agenda at all, just government and regulatory pressure.

Suppliers are desperately trying to get SMETS2 to work, however capita and the DCC (the central data collection hub) were late to the party, 6 years late and testing and fault resolution is slow and often done in live environment essentially. SMETS2 suits suppliers more, why, well the meters are cheaper for a start and the infrastructure is paid for already, so more SMETS1 infrastructure is an incremental cost to them.

If the gas and electric supplies are too far apart a sm can’t be fitted apparently. You could tell them that.

Basically true.  Gas meters communicate on zigbee with a 2.4Ghz RF, if the gas meter is a long distance from the electricity meter & the communications hub (these two are connected / next to each other) and there are solid walls in the line of sight then a lower frequency may be required.  868Mhz is being developed but is not available yet in the metering market.  There is often no way to tell if the current equipiment will work until you get to site though, so some suppliers will naturally ask customers about the distance/ number of walls between the gas and electricity meter

Who’s paying for these adverts, BTW?

Smart Energy GB - set up by the government, funded by suppliers.

In my view much of the consumer saving is being made in early mass roll out, but the real benefits for the energy system, particularly electricity will be when the rollout has been significant, possibly over 50%.  This will enable demand side management with either load limiting, auxiliary load switches to control stuff like car chargers and time of use tariffs, to snip the peak demand and stop as much fossil fuel being burned in generation at peak.

As World Cup watchers will know it'll be so much better with the "blockchain solution" (head falls into hands). Who actually commissioned this ad? Actually you know it works, I remembered it because it's soooo utterly devoid of any substance.

How do they communicate with the power suppliers?

I think  my parents & my grandparents had one fitted - but it was no use as neither of them get mobile internet where they live.

How do they communicate with the power suppliers?

SMETS1 - the mobile network, usually Vodafone

SMETS2 - Telefonica mobile network, South, Arqiva radio North, via the DCC

I got an email from Npower the other day saying 'thanks for asking us for a smart meter' despite not asking at any point. I'm v happy with Npower generally, but thought that was a little odd. Ignored it until this thread reminded me of it.

I've always been dubious of the whole system but also from a data security POV. How easy would it be to exploit the system maliciously? can customer info be accessed in this way? Basically, can anyone search my private browsing tabs via my smart meter. I have a reputation to protect here. All of this is just speculation and ill happily admit to donning the tinfoil hat here but...

they block you from moving to cheaper tariffs at any other provider

No, the smart meter won't work with the new supplier.

BUt I agree, at a cost of £370 per household, not worth it. Not having to submit readings is a help to many though, and I have seen people make significant savings by monitoring their usage.

I have apps (provided by the suppliers) on my phone for submitting gas and leccy meter reads. They alert me when it is due and it enter the value. Takes all of 2 minutes.

And I have a little battery powered gadget (provided by supplier) that clips on the leccy cable at the meter and transmits current usage to a little LCD screen in the kitchen.

Can't see what benefit a smart meter would give me over this set up?

It’s not just about the user though as was mentioned before with better usage data the generation system might be able to be run in a more efficient manner. It is hard to identify waste and inefficiency without data

it would appear that you have the gen0 type smart system. It gives you the data but does not transmit it to the provider

smart meters are a good idea poorly implemented which is a real shame especially since many other countries have managed so we could have just implemented their system rather than reinventing one

If the gas and electric supplies are too far apart a sm can’t be fitted apparently. You could tell them that.

Well being as they install one for gas and one for electric that excuse won’t work.

EoN asked if we wanted smart meters. I said "yes" and a date was arranged for fitting. Their man came around and fitted an electricity smart meter. He then went to the other side of the house (diagonally) and fitted the gas smart meter. He then attempted to set them up and couldn't. I did not watch him do this so can't say exactly what they look like or the process.

He said it was because they were too far apart. He then said he had to fit a new electricity meter (non smart) as the one he had taken out was damaged, so he came back three days later to do that. When we changed suppliers to to EDF they asked if I wanted smart meters and I said " Eon said they were too far apart". EDF said "that can happen".

I cant tell you the detail of the reason as I cant remember what the guy said and I am not interested enough to go and find out more.

Basically pointless having one though if you’re going to switch providers as it’s then a dumb meter. It will put some people off switching however, if the believe the smart

except I have two new meters with easier to read and interpret displays