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Scotland picked a black player for the first time in 1881
That scratching noise is the sound of fingernails contacting the bottom of a very deep barrel.
Could be why they are not supported by the rest of the nation
To which the vast majority of England fans shrug their shoulders.
After England won the world cup Esso petrol stations was a wee tiny kiosk for the attendant that put the petrol in your car with just the odd can of oil, maybe antifreeze and a brake light bulb to keep them company. No fizzy juice or sweeties back then
They used to give out badges of football league club emblems to collect and push into the allocated spot on the cardboard folder when you paid your £2 for filling up your tank
Sheffield had two teams in the top division along with Stoke City
60 years ago a very long time ago
"That scratching noise is the sound of fingernails contacting the bottom of a very deep barrel."
I'm surprised you could hear it with your own head so far into the barrel.
I have seen a lot on social media this morning regarding things that were missed - for example Spence was stamped on by Messi just before the first Argentine goal - an almost exact replica of the incident that led to Egypt's goal being struck off.
A bit clutching at straws after the event, may be true but we were deservedly beaten in the end. However and I did flag this last night, when Anderson clattered Messi and rightly got booked for it, I'm pretty sure Messi had a Beckhamesque little flick out, if only Anderson had done like Diego Simeone and rolled around, maybe VAR might have had a look (yeah, as if)
I can take the on field shithousery, that is what Argentina and the South Americans nation do. It's up to the ref to stop it, while a series of niggly fouls individually are not enough for a caution, there is a totting up option of 'persistant offences' and with them committing so many in a relatively short time in the first half in particular many refs will also opt for a team foul where after a warning, the next player goes in the book and tough shit if it's your first, I know what you're doing in taking it in turns and I'm doing the same.
But the flag, the pushing Pickford face into the ground after the goal, and a sub entering the field of play to shout in the face of the England defenders - that's beyond shithousery, he ran into England's penalty area to do it. And if Jude gets a ban for slapping the sub afterwards that's a travesty, he deserves the same and to miss the final. It used to be a caution for entering the field of play without the ref's permission, I can just about accept the subs running up the line to celebrate but that is pure and simple being a snide little ****
A bit clutching at straws after the event, may be true but we were deservedly beaten in the end. However and I did flag this last night, when Anderson clattered Messi and rightly got booked for it, I'm pretty sure Messi had a Beckhamesque little flick out, if only Anderson had done like Diego Simeone and rolled around, maybe VAR might have had a look (yeah, as if)
It just shows how much was going on, as it wasn't mentioned last night.
I agree that we were deservedly beaten. I genuinely don't object too much to the shithousery on display, nothing wrong with pushing the limits of the rules.
What I do object to is the rules not being applied consistently (especially with VAR) across the tournament to all teams. Another thing that has popped up on my feed is Referee Channel & they looked at the 3rd minute challenge on Anderson & it was basically not a red cos it was the 3rd minute.
I am also excited for the final - more so than I thought I would be if England went out.
Another thing that has popped up on my feed is Referee Channel & they looked at the 3rd minute challenge on Anderson & it was basically not a red cos it was the 3rd minute.
That's how I felt about it – the referee daren't red card him simply because it was so early in the game, which is absurd.
Anyway, I think the final will be fascinating. Argentina are unlikely to start as they did against England and will probably be extremely cautious. Spain’s excellent midfield can dominate possession, and they may also know how to contain Messi.
For me, they need to stamp out the chucking balls on the pitch to stop quick throw ins etc being taken. Got ludicrous the amount of times multi-ball was in play!
Not a football fan at all, but surely this is unacceptable and should be punished.
Interesting episode of The Newsagents this evening.
They give plenty of examples where players have been punished for political actions taken by various players and the consequences.
Reckon any action will be taken against Argentina?
20k fine to the Argentina FA probably, no ones getting banned from the final
Been at the pub with some work colleagues, and poring over last night. We might be still sore by the manner of the shithousing so this isn't totally the best thought out ideas, but here's the anti-shithouse manifesto.
And before anyone says it'll ruin the game, players adapt remarkably quickly when forced. The tackle from behind was adapted in no time. The countdown for delaying throw-ins or goal kicks - how many have refs needed to actually penalise this world cup?
So - delaying the restart. Automatic yellow card. It should be anyway, just enforce that properly. If you commit the foul to break up play and that's worth a yellow and then prevent the restart - double yellow it, and a sending off. It's a deliberate action that needs eradicating.
Same with throwing a multiball onto the pitch. That's an absolutely deliberate act, not part of the game, make it a straight red. And if a sub or coaching team member does it - the red has to be applied to a player on the pitch, of the opposition's choosing. It is such a deliberate act, do it and lose Messi for the rest of the game.... you bet it would stop overnight.
Stop sides that are frustrating the game by these stop start fouls and then stopping the team playing on quickly, turn it back into a battle of skill and momentum.
Same with throwing a multiball onto the pitch. That's an absolutely deliberate act, not part of the game, make it a straight red
Can't see that happening too easy for people to say one of the other team's staff knocked the ball out of their hands/ pushed them etc Shithousery is not confined to those on the pitch .
I'm sure that made Mark Walters feel much better about things.
Can't see that happening too easy for people to say one of the other team's staff knocked the ball out of their hands/ pushed them etc Shithousery is not confined to those on the pitch .
There's a 4th official at all games now to manage the benches, and VAR at all games at the top levels. Put a camera on the bench areas solely if needs be.
So yeah, you *might* be able to say it was the other team's staff that did it, or they knocked the ball out of your hands. But if the penalty is losing your best player for the rest of the game, would you take the risk of being either of those protagonists when there's a camera looking right at you?
and I'm on a roll now.
Multiball is supposed to speed play up, but some teams, that play in blue and white stripes maybe, were using it to slow things down. Ball out of play for a throw in, the 'in play' ball is right there at their feet but no, I want that one on its little stand that's ten metres away and I'm going to walk slowly to get it, then do that dance with the ref to identify where to take the throw in from, and even with the efforts of counting down to speed up getting the throw in taken, that's another half a minute gone.
No. You use the nearest ball to the restart point. Do that as described above, and the direction is reversed. If you're doing it for a goal kick, whoops, now it's a corner. 'But that one's wet' - tough shit, it's an outdoor game.
And kick offs after goals. Now, this isn't just teams from the southern tip of the american continent, but they definitely do it. Nearly 3 minutes from their winner to the restart on Weds night, because of the sub invasion (covered previously) and the slow walk back right through the centre circle.
No-one wants to stop the rightful and joyous celebration of a goal being scored. It's the ultimate release of the game, no matter what Jordan Pickford thinks. But a minute's enough. Clock starts as a goal goes in, play restarts after a minute. Fill your boots in the meantime, but if you're still waving at fans behind the goal you just scored in, and your end's undefended when the restart happens, whose problem is that? Particularly annoys me when a goal's subject to VAR - as the decision comes in they THEN run up the other end again, just so they can waste time walking back. And all subs have to be off after a minute or they get a card. Simple as.
If Pele and Bobby Charlton could manage with a handshake or a manly pat on the back, today's players can manage with a minute.
If it doesn't work out for Andy Burnham, theotherjonv for Prime Minister!
Before we introduce a raft of new rules, can we at least ensure that referees apply the existing ones consistently. Ie, deliberately elbowing someone in the back of the neck is a straight red even if it is only after three minutes. And deliberately kicking out at an opponent when laid on the floor (and Argentina should fully accept this one after what happened to Beckham) – straight red.
I think that's the thing - it's always the thing, Premiership, Champions League, Euros, World Cup - let's have games refereed consistently.
With VAR there really is no excuse.
Yep, also include deliberately initiating contact to win a penalty (DR Congo), diving in open field play (Anderson) and slapping opposition players at the end of the match (Bellingham) or all these new rules to be applied to non-england teams?
I rewatched some of the game yesterday and as has been said above it was somewhat industrial but not brutal. England had 12% possession in the 30 minutes between Anthony Gordon's goal and Argentina's equaliser. This is why they lost not fouling by those foreigners or multiball play.
With VAR there really is no excuse.
Exactly – after that first incident against Anderson, the England players went to the referee and were asking him to check VAR (at one point, Kane was doing an 'elbowing' motion to the ref. to show him what he saw). Had it gone to VAR it was surely a red and I don't understand why it didn't as, in many other matches, the referee has checked VAR after being challenged.
I rewatched some of the game yesterday and as has been said above it was somewhat industrial but not brutal. England had 12% possession in the 30 minutes between Anthony Gordon's goal and Argentina's equaliser. This is why they lost not fouling by those foreigners or multiball play.
Yup after England scored it was suddenly one way traffic as Argentina realised if they wanted to be in final they had to actually play football & I have no argument about the result, the way we capitulated was hugely disappointing...
However also... there was this
In the grand scheme of things had the rules been applied consistently Argentina would've had a player sent off in the 3rd minute, that would've changed the game. And the first Argentina goal would've been chalked off for a stamp on Spence, even though our goal was at that point leading a charmed life.
Well the Americanism of soccer ball is complete. These hideous things will be given to the winners.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cgmk7mnnyjeo
is that the premium Elizabeth Duke range? Didn't that factory burn down a couple of years ago causing hundreds of pounds of stock loss.
It's not about whether it would have changed the outcome, no doubt as the game turned out and was officiated, Argentina were by far the better team and deserved the win. If certain things had been spotted and/or enforced then yes, things may have gone differently, including Argentina actually playing for the full 90 mins instead of the last 20, and we might well have had our arses handed to us.
Of course my rule changes would be implemented for all. I'm not saying England aren't also guilty of all these things, as is every other team*.
It has become part of the game and part that is 'ruining' it. My improvements are the result of an unserious pub garden conversation, and are deliberately OTT and supposed to be relatively humorously venting, but tell me they, or other means to remove some of these shithousery tactics, wouldn't improve the game?
* I assume Ireland would be but we rarely see them at major tournaments to know.
* I assume Ireland would be but we rarely see them at major tournaments to know.
ouch - but you see our progeny.
Argentina were by far the better team and deserved the win.
In the second half, yes, but we were the better team in the first half. But, by the end, we got exactly what we deserved.
I reckon had Argentina been reduced to 10 men after 3 minutes, they'd still have won. They wanted it more. It's a mentality thing, extremely difficult to overcome. Messi aside, England have the players to match Argentina but not the belief.
Sunday will be all about Spain's mentality. You suspect every player in the Argentina squad would literally kill for Leo Messi, that's not an easy group mentality to face up to. IMO Spain are superior man-for-man but it'll come down to mentality.
The world cup wouldn't be the world cup without some South American shithousery! It's all part of it. Normally Uruguay are the masters of it, but they went too deep too soon.
One positive to take from this - I would have probably been strongarmed by my children in to going and watching the final down at the local football club bar, so it's saved me at least £50 in drinks for the family.
I’m beginning to wonder if football really has any rules. So many seem to be ignored. I would give an instant red to any dissent shown to a match official. No ifs or buts. If the ref wants to speak to a player they will call them over. If not get on with the game
If I was an Argentinian of a nationalist persuasion, I would be very glad that we beat England at football.
I think Argentina should stick to the things it is good at:
- Football
- Raising cattle
- Hiding war criminals
Avoiding the thing it is terrible at:
- Fighting wars, especially those over the Falkland Islands with the UK.
I reckon had Argentina been reduced to 10 men after 3 minutes, they'd still have won.
Nah – had they had a player sent off for that tackle, they would have had to adapt what their approach was altogether (as they could/should have had Messi sent off too – but he knew he was going to get away with his petulant kick).
I would give an instant red to any dissent shown to a match official. No ifs or buts. If the ref wants to speak to a player they will call them over. If not get on with the game
Agreed. It should be more like Rugby Union (and League, I don't know if they do they same), where only the captain can approach an official.
Hope Spain will win the World Cup.
I still don't understand why Anthony Gordon was substituted during the match with Argentina, but I don't want to think about that now ...
Hope Spain will win the World Cup
Suddenly every England Supporter is going to be cheering on Cucurella's sh1thousery
Hope Spain will win the World Cup.
I still don't understand why Anthony Gordon was substituted during the match with Argentina, but I don't want to think about that now ...
Tuchel is getting a lot of stick for this isn't he, on the basis that Gordon was the "outball" which would've prevented the waves of Argentine attacks. But Gordon was on for 17 minutes after our goal and I didn't see him functioning as an effective outball many times, if at all. We were backs to the wall from the minute we scored.
It's not the first time in recent years England have done that in a big game, seems to be psychological as much as tactical. I guess Tuchel's thinking was that if the players were going to sit back and defend the lead anyway, he might as well set them up with the best players and system for defending a lead. It worked against Mexico and Norway afterall.
I think the flaw here is that we've known about this problem where the players seem to be afraid of winning in the big games, but we don't seem to have done anything about it. It has been our fatal flaw on more than one occasion, so you'd think a good amount of our preparation for this tournament should have been focussed on making sure it doesn't happen again. Yet here we are with it having happened again.
England don't play enough tier 1 sides. Their qualifying group was not very challenging and the route through the world cup saw them scrape over the line against Dr. Congo and Norway. Could have benefited with a Paraguay like team to build a little immunity to shithousery.
Great start to the 'should have been the final'. Only 87.5 mins to hold out for now.
Nice to see Argentinian shithousery isn't only limited to football, the rugby team's wearing a dark blue homage to Mexico 86 shirt.
Speaking today to some Italians, Germans and Spanish (plus a token Irish guy) it seems like this evening's game is the one everyone was hoping to see as the final.
Watching it, it seems like France are just there as a matter of course. Shame, because the scoreline is very much in England's favour.
It turns out that we're really good when there's nothing at stake.
First England game in a while I’ve enjoyed whilst it’s happening, rather than just a good result.
Definitely gonna win the euros!
I can’t believe Saka has started this match and didn’t get a look in the rest of the tournament
Well ¡!¡! Expect the unexpected 🤣
