Won by Jasleen Kaur this year, an artist celebrating the Scottish Sikh community.
Come on now. Surely someone wants to have a moan about a lady sticking a doily on a Ford Escort? 😉
This place is slipping.
BBC article
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e3982dz8ko
It's displeasing... I'm fairly sure that even though those wheels are Ford branded... They are the incorrect wheels for that car.
And why is there a picture of what looks like a BMW on the wall behind it?
So many questions, so few answers.
What kind of statement are they trying to make by that? ... Something very sinister I'm sure...
What kind of statement ..?
Yeah, marvelous that innit. Art wot makes ya fink.
It looks like the sunlight reflecting off the glass has melted large holes in it
My first thought was at last, a modern update to the legendary 5 spot
My second thought was **** me, were we really driving cars that looked like that?
It’s displeasing… I’m fairly sure that even though those wheels are Ford branded… They are the incorrect wheels for that car.
And why is there a picture of what looks like a BMW on the wall behind it?
So many questions, so few answers.
What kind of statement are they trying to make by that? … Something very sinister I’m sure…
Well, the photo could easily be the family with one of their family cars, the Escort has a boot lid spoiler, and a personalised plate, the wheels are very similar to those fitted to the RS1600i and RS Turbo Series 1, so it’s highly likely that it’s an XR3i, with a set of wheels from another Escort or a Capri.
I honestly fail to see why it’s‘ Displeasing’, when it looks very like an artwork representing a Sikh family and the cars that were/are important to them, the doily would be something like those that families would use to protect valuable items in the house.
Took me a minute or two to figure that out, but I’m artistically inclined enough to understand what artworks often represent.
Does that help?
I feel like having a moan that it’s been 11 years since the last straight white male winner, in a country where about 40% of the population are straight white men, but not sure I care enough to bother.
Wow! Seriously? I’m not sure what the population of straight white men has to do with the actual number of people involved in the arts, especially when you go back to the 18/19th century’s and women were hugely underrepresented in places like the Royal Academy, for what reasons I’m not sure, but I can hazard a guess, and it would be very interesting to see how many of those men were actually gay, especially when gay men make up a large percentage of the arts of various genres.
Maybe you should get out more…
I feel like having a moan that it’s been 11 years since the last straight white male winner, in a country where about 40% of the population are straight white men, but not sure I care enough to bother.
One for the Disproportionately Cross thread, probably
Edit. Actually, reading it again, maybe we need a new thread along the lines of "Things I could get annoyed about, but frankly CBA"
Definitely a case of 'art is in the eye of the beholder' there!
Although I do appreciate your particular interpretation.. That's what art is all about, is it not?
Off topic but funny story I've probably said on here before..
I dragged my mate around the Tate Modern quite a few years ago.. Almost against his will.
I told him "most of the stuff you will see" you won't relate too... But I guarantee you'll see one or two things that really make you think.
And he was pleased that I did, he saw one or two exhibits that struck a chord with him on a personal level.
Definitely a case of ‘art is in the eye of the beholder’ there!
Although I do appreciate your particular interpretation.. That’s what art is all about, is it not?
As a fairly regular visitor to the Royal Academy Summer Exhibition, and a visitor to most of the major London galleries and museums over the years, I would certainly agree with you, but it’s never possible to predict just what will strike an emotional response; Anthony Gormley’s works I absolutely adore, I’ve actually got two tattoos of a couple of his concept sketches, one is, according to what was written next to it, nearly funded and a date 2025, so possibly a public piece…
His ‘Critical Mass’ installation in London was extraordinary.
There’s plenty of highly regarded pieces I wouldn’t hang in my loo, though…
Gay men make up a large percentage of the arts of various genres.
I don't know if that's true but I'll take your word for it. Why would it be true though? I don't see how sexuality should have any bearing on artistic ability or interest in the arts? Must be a social thing where straight men don't feel as welcome in the arts? Is that a problem? I think if any other demographic was not proportionately represented in the arts we'd say it was a problem.
You're absolutely right though I do need to get out more.
Between the angle and the antimacassar it's hard to tell, but is that not an Orion?
Deffo an Orion.
but is that not an Orion?
Looking at it again.. It actually looks more like an Orion than an Escourt Either way the wheels are wrong.
But what is art? If nothing else it's supposed to strike a thought process and some thought and conversation.
So it's totally execcded it's face value already.
Here’s a couple of Gormley’s sketches which I’ve had inked, the top right one on the page,
…and actual examples - those full-size figures are cast iron, and the moulds taken directly from Gormley’s own body…
And something from The Cortaulds Gallery in London, that a few might recognise…
Deffo an Orion.
Clearly an allusion to the constellation.
Maybe it should have been titled "The car's the stars"
I've found some pics from a different angle, it's not an Orion, it's a Mk3 Escort Cabriolet.
A few years back I was invited to the Glasgow School of Art for an exhibition and I felt like I must be uneducated maybe a philistine but very few exhibits appealed to me or could I get my head around
Too much use of the over head projector from a few, chuck in some nude swimming in a lake etc
Some of it looked like it was figured out the Friday night at the pub on the back of a fag packet
I think some of them are now at the modern art gallery at Ravelston
Honestly, if the antimacassar is hand made, that's pretty impressive.
As for whether it is art, well, art is what it is. It's subjective and holds a mirror up to life. If someone likes it, appreciates it or understands what it is communicating, it could be said to be art. It's not really my thing, but I appreciate the effort of the antimacassar and that they found a car that age in what looks like such good condition. It looks like it has some rust in the sills, but that can be fixed.
Where’s the KLF when you need them?
"If the art classes in the sixth form colleges that I taught in over 30 odd years are anything to go by, probably 60+% of art students who subsequently went to art college were female so the demographic may well be skewed"
Was just about to post the same. I went to art college 30 years ago and the mix was about 65 percent female, although the teaching staff were 90 percent male. As time moves on those stats inevitably work their way through the system, now more than half the teaching staff are female, as are about three quarters of the students and when it comes to employment within galleries and museums and the distribution of funding the discrepancy is even higher.
If so few men are studying art then it's hardly surprising that there a fewer men represented within the arts further down the line.
I know there's very little logic to it, but I like to see a bit of graft. Ideally by the bod being credited with its creation. I can live with being too daft to understand it, or finding it aesthetically unedifying - but a bit of graft; some blood, sweat and tears, is always good to see. Works for most things in life - apart from yarn bombing postbox topper makers. They can get in the sea.
Well it's had some comments.. Maybe not in the way the artist originally intended...
But is it art?
I honestly fail to see why it’s‘ Displeasing’, when it looks very like an artwork representing a Sikh family and the cars that were/are important to them, the doily would be something like those that families would use to protect valuable items in the house.
I'm reading the doily it as the opression of someting more young and new?
Even though the composition is made of 'old' things... i'ts an expression of power.
Maybe the artists intention by placing a huge random doily on it, is a means to bring attention to the fact certain people in all walks of society can get smothered by a load of poo, and that we should all look after each other when we can.
But that's the beauty of art... you can read into it what ever you like.
I happened to catch the acceptance speech live on the BBC when Jasleen Kaur first dropped the F bomb then gave an excoriating critique of the Tate museums attitude to artists and ended with a free Gaza statement. Brave as she was stood in Tate Britain, so frankly I like her.
"when Jasleen Kaur first dropped the F bomb then gave an excoriating critique of the Tate museums attitude to artists and ended with a free Gaza statement. Brave as she was stood in Tate Britain, so frankly I like her."
But do you like her art?
Fair play to these folks managing to get cash in the bank producing talentless bollocks like this.
I could stand on a plinth with a kettlebell in one hand and a large wheel of cheese in the other. I'd be art, and people could read into my performance whatever they want. Does it make me talented, worthy of praise? I don't think so.
I'm fortunate enough to have a real gem of an art gallery along the road, showing work from real artists. I love going in there and goggling at their work in wonder at the talent and graft which goes into the stuff on show. Anything by Helen Denerley? Yes please! https://www.kilmorackgallery.co.uk/helen-denerley-sculpture/
Or this glorious thing currently on the wall https://www.kilmorackgallery.co.uk/artists/35-allan-macdonald/works/7545-allan-macdonald-when-i-awoke-hrisey-2024/
Still, more effort went into that than this $6.2m piece of art (that was eaten by the lucky winner).
And here's the moment the winning bid was made...
Fair play to these folks managing to get cash in the bank producing talentless bollocks like this.
I could stand on a plinth with a kettlebell in one hand and a large wheel of cheese in the other. I’d be art, and people could read into my performance whatever they want. Does it make me talented, worthy of praise? I don’t think so.
Excellent. This is the kind of missing the point comment we've come to expect and enjoy from the Turner prize. Well done 🙂
But yeah, I think she knows her way around a paintbrush when she wants to, if that's how you measure an artist.
I’m fortunate enough to have a real gem of an art gallery along the road, showing work from real artists.
Sounds like you don't get the subjective nature of art and what appeals to some doesn't appeal to others. For example those pieces you love that you link to do nothing for me so can I say there are rubbish, of course not.
You don't get to say who is a "real artist"
I don’t know if that’s true but I’ll take your word for it. Why would it be true though? I don’t see how sexuality should have any bearing on artistic ability or interest in the arts? Must be a social thing where straight men don’t feel as welcome in the arts? Is that a problem? I think if any other demographic was not proportionately represented in the arts we’d say it was a problem.
You’re absolutely right though I do need to get out more.
Demographic that potentially spent a lot of it's formative years having to act to hide themselves turns out to be good at acting?
Demographic that celebrates diversity turns out to be better at producing new creative expressions?
Demographic that had to stick it's head above the parapet of society and deal with comments like yours turns out to also be more inclined to then throw other ideas out there and push things forward?
I'm really not sure why you're at all upset, but I'm not surprised.
it looks very like an artwork representing a Sikh family and the cars that were/are important to them, the doily would be something like those that families would use to protect valuable items in the house.
Took me a minute or two to figure that out, but I’m artistically inclined enough to understand what artworks often represent.
Brilliant, ok, let's find an artwork without a linked article and get you to display your artistic inclinations lol
It’s what I would expect from the turner prize. Utter rubbish designed to create media comment and noise rather than be good art. I have a simple theory when it comes to art. If the artist has to provide any form of explanation as to what the work is about or represents then it has failed as art. In this case if the artist didn’t provide the explaination who would ever work out what a parked car with a big doily on it was supposed to be about
I disagree Chris.
At school (90s) we studied the Raft of the Medusa. On its own it's a great painting but without the explanation you miss most of the point of the painting and it becomes the dying and dead on a raft. Excuse the X in the top left . That's not original. 😉
It’s what I would expect from chrismac. Utter rubbish .......and noise
if the artist didn’t provide the explaination who would ever work out what a parked car with a big doily on it was supposed to be about
To be fair that much seemed obvious at first glance, And while that's a bit of a centerpiece to the exhibit, it makes more sense in the wider context of the other pieces exploring the idea that history is often written by a very mainstream narrative. The point as I saw it was that "1980's" conjures up images of the "Wolf of Wall Street" type excess and shoulder pads. But if you're from Nottingham it was probably miners strikes, or from Cumbria it was the restrictions on sheep farming after Chernobyl. There's also something about the sentimentality of it I think. It's not a million pound Ferrari in an air conditioned cocoon it's a Ford under a doily. I was visiting my nan in her new care home last week and it struck me how a lifetime of visiting her and grandads big detached house full of mid century G-plan furniture and doilies under everything to protect it was now condensed to a single room and only so few personal items you could fit them all in an archive box, a lot of the material things they may have cared about and protected are ultimately now gone forever.* So to me it resonated not just that peoples history deserves to be recorded, but how we should go about protecting that.
*not the G-plan sideboard, that I think was snapped up by a hipster furniture dealer from London
Demographic that potentially spent a lot of it’s formative years having to act to hide themselves turns out to be good at acting?
Demographic that celebrates diversity turns out to be better at producing new creative expressions?
Demographic that had to stick it’s head above the parapet of society and deal with comments like yours turns out to also be more inclined to then throw other ideas out there and push things forward?
I’m really not sure why you’re at all upset, but I’m not surprised.
I think you're being hasty in your judgement.
I'm quite liberally minded myself and I also work in an industry where working class white men are killing themselves at a disproportionate rate, so maybe that's why I'm quite sensitive to these kind of things.
While I recognise that support of disadvantaged women and ethnic minorities probably comes from a good place and is a good thing for society in general, I think it's about time we stopped pretending that white men can't also be disadvantaged in modern Britain.
I don't really buy any of those reasons you've given to be honest. Especially not the second one which seems to imply that white men don't celebrate diversity, which is definitely not the case. I'd be surprised if you could find any evidence that a particular non-age based demographic celebrates diversity any more than any others.
You only have to look at the music scene to see that white men are capable of and interested in pursuing artistic careers with just as much enthusiasm and talent as any other demographic.
OK, you can ready your flamethrowers...I'll admit it, I genuinely don't get the meaning of an awful lot of art. Maybe it's the way my brain is wired, or maybe I'm just a dullard (possibly even both), but I don't. There, I said it.
This Turner Prize piece of art, without any additional explanation, looks to me simply like a car with a doily on it. Nothing more. I see no hidden, implied or suggested context, just a car with a doily on it.
I can look at a picture, a painting, a sculpture etc and think "that's nice" or, maybe contentiously, "that's a bit naff", but this is only to my eye. I can appreciate the effort that may have gone into creating a piece of art, but not necessarily 'get it', or even like it.
I recall arguing, loose description, about the merits of a guitar solo in a piece of music I'd listened to, with a mate who was a good guitar player. They mocked my lack of appreciation of the technicality and skill required to play certain other solos they mentioned, whereas I thought they sounded awful. I could still appreciate that there was skill and technique, without liking those bits of music, whereas the one I'd mentioned just sounded 'good/nice' to my ear.
