[Closed] The trial of Anders Breivik

The 'war on terror' if it really were a war it wouldn't have been that difficult to win now would it?

Why is that exactly ?

Utter genius! I bet you've even missed the irony of that clip haven't you? You really couldn't make it up 😆

derekrides - Member

"Lifer - Member

What tosh."

Sorry chap you are wrong, fear is what drives all governments of left or right persuasion, it is fundamental to their existence, dates right back to feudalism. It also drives economies, it is driving our economy right now, do you really think we are at that huge a risk of terrorism at our airports for example.

So not the 'Socialist Society Leftist way'?

I reckon they are two new Elfin identities.

He might not have been to everyone's taste, but please, credit him with a little more intelligence...
(edit) And can we have more tiger based solutions, please.

Once again the Big Hitters flounce in to ruin what could have been an interesting thread rather than the usual hair pulling handbag slinging nonsense it becomes.

A lot of mountain bikes getting dusty in garages

[img] [/img]

9-11 essentially ended Irish terrorism

Edit: and it certainly wasn't cutting off (cough) the oxygen of publicity from Gerry Adams, having closed Diplock Courts, internment (imprisonment without trial) and allowing the police to bang up people who "obviously done it" (Guildford 4, Birmingham 6) that did it!

Lifer - Member

So not the 'Socialist Society Leftist way'?

Well if I'm not mistaken Norway is a Socialist Society is it not? I could be wrong, but were the kids killed not members of the very leftist party our esteemed and now famous 'hero' eliminated? Ironical they now want to try and 'understand' him, such is the naivety of the 'left' in matters such as this.

Now I'm not saying the 'right' are not equally bad ( in truth I have a tendency toward anarchy personally, I think in this enlightened and better informed electronic age it could serve us better than our current Governmental systems) but they do things slightly differently and I wouldn't be so crass or insult your intelligence by suggesting the difference to you, I'm sure you are already very aware.

[b]I could be wrong[/b], but were the kids killed not members of the very leftist party our esteemed and now famous 'hero' eliminated? Ironical they now want to try and 'understand' him, such is the naivety of the 'left' in matters such as this.

derekrides - Member
Well if I'm not mistaken Norway is a Socialist Society is it not? I could be wrong, but were the kids killed not members of the very leftist party our esteemed and now famous 'hero' eliminated? Ironical they now want to try and 'understand' him, such is the naivety of the 'left' in matters such as this.

He didn't 'eliminate' them he 'killed' them.
Why is it ironic that they want to 'understand' him?

Or rather why are you so against people trying to learn something from this tragedy that could prevent something similar happening again?

Ironical they now want to try and 'understand' him, such is the naivety of the 'left' in matters such as this

No, it didn't. Good Friday agreement and the decade of unglamorous negotiations with and between terrorists did, followed by the terrorists' political wings absolutely nuking their support bases with ineptitude in government and splittism.

I know that negotiations were well under way and that the Good Friday agreement had done a lot of the groundwork but the IRA were still procrastinating over decomissioning their weapons.

After 9-11 all but the most vehement of hardliners knew that the gun had to finally be removed from Irish politics. Terrorism was the dirtiest word on the planet at the time and this and the fact that the IRA's North American funding stream was effectively over brought the peace process in Ireland to a faster swifter resolution than it would have otherwise.

But this is all a bit OT

BigButSlimmerBloke - Member

Why is it ironic? They are simply bigger, better people than some halfwit with a gun.

Well there once again I have to say is where we shall have to beg to differ.

[i]"oh he's killed some of us and our kids.. lets try to understand him and why..." [/i] FFS and that's not the blackest irony? Or is that just plain naive. I'm not going to say stupid, I'm assuming it is grief warping the judgement of whomever it was that gave that quote, I'm sure whoever it was there are four or five times more who would simply shoot the ****er on sight.

I think Norway is showing remarkable dignity in the way they are handling this terrible affair.

If we (and by this I mean European nations) want to see an end to white supremacism and people signing up to extreme right wing philosophies, then we need to understand why these people come to think and believe what they do. Is it that it appeals to people who are already a bit unhinged (like Breivik possibly is) or does the participation in it unhinge people and make them start thinking stuff like it's OK to massacre people who don't believe the same thing? There's a lot of brainwashing particularly of young people that goes on in these sort of groups.

they want to prevent it happening again Derek why is that stupid?
Your assessment of what they want to do is a lazy and stupid caricature of their goal and even you know this.They want to prevent it happening again and believe the best way of doing this is to understand his motives. It may not work but it is more likely to work than your throw him out a 3 rd story window approach.

I'm sure whoever it was there are four or five times more who would simply shoot the ****er on sight.

konabunny - Member
So just to be clear - in this case the dudes referred to above who actually went through being shot at and having their neighbours killed are the naive ones, and you're the well-informed one?

Stockholm Syndrome or some variant, ironical it is their close neighbours that gave title to that psychological phenomenon. Mixtures of grief, guilt at survival, Lord knows what's going on in their heads, not straight thinking that's for sure.

"oh he's killed some of us and our kids.. lets try to understand him and why..." FFS and that's not the blackest irony? Or is that just plain naive. I'm not going to say stupid, I'm assuming it is grief warping the judgement of whomever it was that gave that quote, I'm sure whoever it was there are four or five times more who would simply shoot the ****er on sight.

They're just better, more rational people than you.

Or perhpas the fact that they have not had their values distorted by decades of right wing press revelling in scary stories allows themto see it all a little more clearly.

Norway has a very different and much more successful ethos in its criminal justice system.

Just maybe its you thats out of step here Derek?

But please continue its rather amusing

Well there once again I have to say is where we shall have to beg to differ.

Don't have to beg, you're wrong, I'd say get used to it, but I'll guess you already are

What about sharks? Or dolphins. Feeding him to some sharks is a bit unimaginative, unless you did it in a sort of ironic 70's James Bond film way and had a trapdoor in the courtroom, that dropped him into a pool below. Then you could just hear his cries. But even that would look to Austin Powers maybe?

How about dolphins? The American military trained dolphins to deploy limpet mines. Surely its not that much of a leap to train them to use machine guns. Ones that work underwater. You can get those, can't you? If not, you should! Anyway.... they could release him into a fjord and give him 10 minutes head start on the dolphins with machine guns, and film it all from a mini-sub and a helicopter. Then the footage could be edited, speeded up and released on youtube with the Benny Hill music as accompaniment. I'd watch that. The Norwegian justice system needs to get with the fricking programme. Its 2012 FFS!!!

But please continue its [s]rather amusing[/s] getting to be hilarious

Stockholm Syndrome or some variant, ironical it is their close neighbours that gave title to that psychological phenomenon. Mixtures of grief, guilt at survival, Lord knows what's going on in their heads, not straight thinking that's for sure.

Au contraire Derek

binners, imagination did you say?

In Ancient Rome, Cicero defended a man accused of patricide. Cicero failed and the man was found guilty and received this punishment. He was sewn into a leather sack with a cockrel and a dog, then thrown into the Tiber.

BTW is ironic-al any relation to cynic-al?

Anyway... Hippo's? They can be right moody buggers apparently. Especially when they're not covered in mud. What about some kind of mud-deprived hippo-releated judicial sanction?

Junkyard - Member
they want to prevent it happening again Derek why is that stupid?

derekrides - Member
I'm not going to say stupid,

Junkyard you have already demonstrated lack of the ability to grasp the meanings of my posts before resulting in a ban for me I believe, now you may be a 'big hitter' here, but frankly I don't think you have the intelligence necessary to discuss stuff like this without getting upset or insulting to those you disagree with, so you will excuse me for making this the last post of yours I reply to, thanks just the same.

Stockholm Syndrome or some variant, ironical it is their close neighbours that gave title to that psychological phenomenon. Mixtures of grief, guilt at survival, Lord knows what's going on in their heads, not straight thinking that's for sure.

well as that refers to kidnap victims it would indeed need to be some variant..as you seem a an expert on psychological matters would you care to name the one you are [s]making up[/s]referring to?

why is it ironical ?

Junkyard you have already demonstrated lack of the ability to grasp the meanings of my posts before resulting in a ban for me I believe,

now you may be a 'big hitter' here, but frankly I don't think you have the intelligence necessary to discuss stuff like this without getting upset or insulting to those you disagree with,

so you will excuse me for making this the last post of yours I reply to, thanks just the same.

its not really a reply it's a refusal to reply. Surely you can support your view with just the simple sword of truth and the trusty shield of British fair play? 😛

Mixtures of grief, guilt at survival, Lord knows what's going on in their heads, not straight thinking that's for sure.

derekrides - Member
I'm not going to say stupid,

"Stockholm Syndrome or some variant," not even slightly right.

Norway as a fair democratic country charges a killer with murder, he as is anyones right, pleads not guilty so goes on trial. Some of his victims being mature rational humans think that lessons to prevent the tragedy reoccouring may come out of the trial process.

How can this be "not straight thinking " Where as randomly killing people down dark alleys cos you know they deserve it is ok ??

llamas? Death by spitting?

frankly [b]I don't think you have the intelligence [/b] necessary to discuss stuff like this without getting upset or [b]insulting to those you disagree with[/b]

How about a goog old fashioned ravaging by the bi-curious islamic swan? Entertaining [u]and[/u] ironical!

Llamas binners? cruel and unusual punishment surely.

I prefer the dropping of an ACME anvil

dose up ona lot of stimulants
force the miscreant to sit through THe Only way Is essex non-stop, no adverts, on a loop for a year
chuck him him out naked into camp of travelers

Straight thinking should have had him shot at the sight - end of, that is my opinion and nothing you folk, big hitter, small hitter or fluffy bunnikins lefty love everybody spanker, will do or say can change that.

Circular arguments to swerve the discussion don't do it either, it is a plain fact, that giving that psycho the platform and the notoriety he has gained by this does not serve their case of preventing similar actions well, however you dress it and if you think it does, then good for you, clearly you are in good company.

As I said, I beg to differ and it is my opinion, damn I'm not even trying to alter your views, accept mine and have an end to it.

I'm liking your thinking uncle Jezza. There's scope there for the involvement of Acme Rocket powered roller skates and a tunnel entrance painted onto a rock face

Like it. 🙂

[i]Accept your views and have an end to it? [/i]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm - I believe Hitler used to use similar language. Surely I can't be the first person to mention Hitler on this thread. Can I? I think I might be? Tsk! Its gone to the dogs around here nowadays 🙄

in truth I have a tendency toward anarchy personally

No $hit Sherlock

derekrides - Member
Straight thinking should have had him shot at the sight - end of, that is my opinion and nothing you folk, big hitter, small hitter or fluffy bunnikins lefty love everybody spanker

What were you saying about intelligence to discuss without insults?

Llamas binners? cruel and unusual punishment surely.

I prefer the dropping of an ACME anvil

Or dress him as female panda and force him to endure the clumsy advances of the male panda's inept attempts to procreate.

Lets face it its no more than the evil b@st@rd deserves

A bit like this Rich:

[img] [/img]

Straight thinking should have had him shot at the sight

- end of, that is my opinion and nothing you folk, big hitter, small hitter or fluffy bunnikins lefty love everybody spanker, will do or say can change that.

As I said, I beg to differ and it is my opinion, damn I'm not even trying to alter your views, accept mine and have an end to it.

derekrides

Please. Go and find out a little bit about Norway...
... about it's people and it's culture.

Norway reallly doesn't fit your UK left / right political model. They are socially liberal and have a Scandinavian welfare model, but they a very open, friendly and above all patriotic people.

You will a Norwegian flags everywhere - like America, but without the yucky, smarmy, rather frightening intensity of US patriotism. Your political views of wishy-washy leftist, socialist pinkos just does not fit.

What you are posting is way, way off the mark.

3We should let the swans have him just for Derek

A man has drowned after being attacked by a swan, which knocked him out of his kayak and stopped him swimming to shore. So how dangerous are these graceful white birds?

Anthony Hensley, 37, worked for a company that provided swans to keep geese away from property.

On Saturday morning, the married father of two set out in a kayak across a pond at a residential complex in Des Plaines, just outside Chicago, where he was tending the birds.

One of the swans charged his boat, capsizing it, says Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart, whose deputies investigated the death.

Mr Hensley tried to swim to shore but eyewitnesses told the sheriff's investigators the swan appeared to have actively blocked him.

"I find myself still scratching my head," says Sheriff Dart. "This truly is one of the ones that keeps you from saying 'I've seen everything now.'"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17736292

rkk01 - Member
derekrides

Please. Go and find out a little bit about Norway...
... about it's people and it's culture.

Norway reallly doesn't fit your UK left / right political model. They are socially liberal and have a Scandinavian welfare model, but they a very open, friendly and above all patriotic people.

You will a Norwegian flags everywhere - like America, but without the yucky, smarmy, rather frightening intensity of US patriotism. Your political views of wishy-washy leftist, socialist pinkos just does not fit.

What you are posting is way, way off the mark.

The trouble with assumption, it is the mother of all **** ups.

I've been to Norway thanks, I have Norwegian friends and business colleagues, I've also travelled in Sweden, some of those I know also think like me, sadly in the real world, not a cosseted fluffy bunny environment like this where views like mine get swiftly banned for fear of upsetting liberal sensibilities, there are mixed views on this and other subjects and they get sensibly debated without insult or ridicule or pathetic attempts at it by half wits.

The principle difference between Norway and here? Wealth, they've held onto theirs not having squandered it on overseas vendettas and offering a welfare state to the globe.

Now I accept it might seem a tad extreme to simply eradicate someone like this, but as I said previously, so often the perpetrator of similar atrocities self terminate on the spot, knowing ultimately right from wrong in the final clarity of the moment I can only guess.

So lets examine, purely financially the cost of all this against the cost of a couple of bullets at the time, for the cost of the trial alone you could feed and educate a village full of starving Africans for a year, and for the cost of his incarceration how many kids could be treated or receive vaccinations against life threatening disease the world over?

So no, rather than that lets have a high brow pseudo liberal discussion, examination, trial and merciful yet luxurious incarceration (by African standards) of this fellow to show the world how wonderful and advanced a society we are.

[b]not a cosseted fluffy bunny environment[/b] like this where views like mine get swiftly banned for fear of upsetting liberal sensibilities, there are mixed views on this and other subjects and they get [b]sensibly debated without insult or ridicule or pathetic attempts at it by half wits.[/b]

Now [i]that[/i] is ironical.

So lets examine, purely financially the cost of all this against the cost of a couple of bullets at the time, for the cost of the trial alone you could feed and educate a village full of starving Africans for a year, and for the cost of his incarceration how many kids could be treated or receive vaccinations against life threatening disease the world over?

yes that is how it would work we would shoot him and end world poverty and disease ..you are a proper right on HUMANITARIAN Hold on were you not just saying they dont provide a welfare state to the world [ that why they are rich]How would this happen then?..Derek you have not thought this through have you 🙄

Sometimes derek I think you believe what you say as you certainly seem ill informed and unaware enough to reach such preposterous conclusions.
Nonetheless startling hypocrisy re the insults. Every post you make has a pointless dig at people who frankly appear to both brighter than you and more humanitarian than you.
Granted neither of these are huge achievements.

So no, rather than that lets have a high brow pseudo liberal discussion, examination, trial and merciful yet luxurious incarceration (by African standards) of this fellow to show the world how wonderful and advanced a society we are.

1: Why "pseudo"? Isn't it [i]real[/i] highbrow? How do you tell the difference?

2: Why do you object to merciful? Presumably because you want to be as "merciless" as him.

3: What makes you think they don't mean it for it's own sake?

[img] [/img]
or
[img] [/img]

You decide!

So lets examine, purely financially the cost of all this against the cost of a couple of bullets at the time, for the cost of the trial alone you could feed and educate a village full of starving Africans for a year, and for the cost of his incarceration how many kids could be treated or receive vaccinations against life threatening disease the world over?

So you would suspend due process, human rights and good governance in a country that has them to provide charity to African countries that live in crushing poverty largely due to the fact that they don't have good governance, human rights or due process.

Alrighty then!

So no, rather than that lets have a high brow pseudo liberal discussion, examination, trial and merciful yet luxurious incarceration (by African standards) of this fellow to show the world how [b]wonderful and advanced a society we are.[/b]

I think derek was suggesting that the display of "wonderfulness" is their motivation, rather than just the by-product.

Derek? Hullo? Come in, derek.

JY pretty sure it was hora that suggested 3rd storey building not derek.

Binners I beleive dolphin have been known to try to force themselves upon unwary swimmers/dolphin trainers so you may be onto something there.

...you are the same as him and you wish to commit the same crime [ shooting those you disagree with]How is the irony of this lost on you?

entertaining thread tho, was dissapointed that I spotted the gandalf-ification quote but couldn't remember the source.

derek - as someone who puts himself at risk of a good shoeing on virtually every 'religion' thread on here, allow me to give you some advice. Just stop it, now. This doesnt mean that I agree with your views in any way, shape or form, simply that those views appear increasingly ill thought out with every post you add. Yes, you're entitled to your opinions, of course, but by branding everyone that disagrees with you a lefty liberal, etc, you're hardly doing a good job of putting your point across.

derekrides

I've been to Norway thanks, I have Norwegian friends and business colleagues,

Have to say though - doesn't match the (admittedly dated) impression of Norway and the Norwegians that I got during my travels there.

The main differences I picked up on when in Norway:

- Norway is wealthy by dint of N Sea oil revenues AND low population

- You are correct, they haven't squandered their N Sea oil revenues. During the 80s they were re-investing while we were paying dole benefits.

- those UK dole benefits were a result of (necessary) re-structuring of dilapidated UK industry.

From what I have seen, Norway didnt have that legacy of a large proportion of the workforce employed in unionised heavy industry - or the entitled landed gentry / industrial owners that has caused polarisation of UK political positions over the last 100 or so years.

Seemed to me to be a country much more at ease with itself than the UK
Just my take

barnsleymitch - Member
derek - as someone who puts himself at risk of a good shoeing on virtually every 'religion' thread on here, allow me to give you some advice. Just stop it, now. This doesnt mean that I agree with your views in any way, shape or form, simply that those views appear increasingly ill thought out with every post you add. Yes, you're entitled to your opinions, of course, but by branding everyone that disagrees with you a lefty liberal, etc, you're hardly doing a good job of putting your point across.

No, but it's entertainment for me, I haven't had such a pleasant wind up for a while, has kept me amused for a bit, they do bite don't they and that junkyard fool deserved a bit of winding in after getting me banned a while back.

What's needed is a good can of this stuff...

[img] [/img]

It'll keep the mass murderers away - honest 😆

I think that rather than blaming junkyard for your ban, you need to look a little closer to home. The fallback defence of 'I was just trolling' is, at best, immature.

Ah. Edinburgh.

so, derek 'entertainment' over a mass murder is a 'pleasant wind up'.

nicely played. you're a real human being.

No, but it's entertainment for me, I haven't had such a pleasant wind up for a while, has kept me amused for a bit, they do bite don't they and that junkyard fool deserved a bit of winding in after getting me banned a while back.

Ooooooh, dark coloured kitchen implements abound! 🙂

I suspect we've all fallen pray to a Daily Mail random quote generator. They're still perfecting it though. The only part that failed was, in mentioning it had been to Norway, it missed the opportunity to start the monologue "some of my best friends are Norwegian, BUT......"

Needs a tweak

I'm beginning to see a pattern emerging....

derek posts some childish, ill-thought-out nonsense.

Questions are asked and a response is requested.

derek ignores the questions and claims he didn't mean it and was only "winding people up" for his "amusement".

derek ends up looking like a silly child.

Have I missed anything?