[Closed] The transformation of Gordon Brown

Don't mention Pensions....

Has to be a troll, surely. The man is an incompetent buffoon to be wheeled out whenever the Labour party need a "big hitter" to give them some gravitas.

incompetent buffoon

Which is what I have always thought, except that his may be the only voice people will listen to from the 'IN' side in the EU debate.

I don't know how you feel about that, obviously, but I, for one, am glad of his intervention. So I say, 'wheel him out'.

Other than him having the sense to keep us out the Euro, I've always thought of him as an idiot, but his speech on the devolution referendum and now this one have shown him in a different light.

When they are not scrabbling for power a lot of the elder statesman do come across a lot better - John Major, William Hague spring to mind, though your views may vary. They seem a bit more rational, capable of seeing the bigger picture.

Shame they are all dicks when actually in power.

He can say what he likes, most folk stopped listening years ago. Having said that, he's been wrong about practically every major decision he's ever made, so if he's for remaining then we should probably leave.

Other than him having the sense to keep us out the Euro, I've always thought of him as an idiot

This is the bit I agree with and I think that one of the major reasons he didn't want to go into the Euro is that he would have been called out for spending money we didn't have like a drunken sailor with an itchy cock.

Don't mention Pensions...

Or the gold. Or the abolition of boom and bust.

I've always admired him.

I think a few of you are being rather unfair, to say the least.

Don't mention Pensions....

What, his?

He gets £100,000+ ex Prime Ministers pension, even though no-one voted him into the job. No wonder he was so cavalier with other peoples.

Don't forget him using anti-terror legislation to get money out of the Icelanders when the banks went pop. He's still hated there for that little stunt.

I know he was recast as the "incompetent buffoon" during his premiership and after the financial crisis, and certainly he clearly didn't have the persona for leadership, but he does deserve some credit for a few other things. His interventions when the credit crunch hit are widely credited by most economic experts as preventing things from getting much worse much more quickly. He also kept us out of the Euro and was mostly successful as chancellor.

He failed to spot the financial crisis coming, and didn't realise that the banking sector had become dangerously under regulated during the previous conservative government, but I'm not sure that any mainstream politician did, and I'm fairly sure that it wasn't within any one country's governments power to prevent it anyway.

Clearly flawed in many ways, but I do think he has more to him than the incompetent buffoon.

Don't mention Pensions....
What, his?

I'd guess that the comment relates more to the deregulation of pension fund investments (removing restrictions on the sort of stuff funds could invest / gamble [b]our[/b] money on) which is a major contributory factor to the stories we keep hearing about mahoosive pension liabilities (Tata Steel, BHS).

Don't mention Pensions....

Are you referring to the continuation of the Tory policy of raiding pensions to bolster treasury coffers? Or is it that he removed the contribution limit to personal pensions which has since be cut by the current government?

at oldejeans... the facts suggest otherwise! By any objective measure he's the worst PM (and one of the worst chancellors) we've ever had, and he's up against some stiff competition

What, his?
He gets £100,000+ ex Prime Ministers pension, even though no-one voted him into the job. No wonder he was so cavalier with other peoples.

He failed to spot the financial crisis coming, and didn't realise that the banking sector had become dangerously under regulated during the previous conservative government, but I'm not sure that any mainstream politician did, and I'm fairly sure that it wasn't within any one country's governments power to prevent it anyway.

I think Vince Cable called it beforehand, as did many financial operators / commentators..

his interventions in the Scottish Referendum debate, and now the EU debate have reflected a real 'elder statesman' quality he never showed before

What this tells us is that the top jobs are in fact poisoned chalices. You can't do what you would like to do, or act on your principles, because you're pinned down. See Obama also.

And what THAT tells us is not to take what politicians say at face value, because they can't really say in public what they mean, and they can't do what they'd like.

and didn't realise that the banking sector had become dangerously under regulated during the previous conservative government, but I'm not sure that any mainstream politician did

He may well have done, but wasn't able to act. The government really aren't in charge of some things, you know.

Don't forget him using anti-terror legislation to get money out of the Icelanders when the banks went pop.

Or the gold

That was a bit of often quoted silliness.

There's no way the price of gold could've been predicted for the next decade, and secondly you could accuse the same of Cameron for not selling in 2011 at the top of the recent market.

Brown and Blair were the reason why this voter deserted Labour eighteen years.

Their economic policies helped to kill social mobility, the housing market was allowed to overcook, pension protection legislation was watered down, then there's the issue over Britain's gold reserves which were sold off for a song. I didn't much care for the appointment of Damian McBride either.

But, I have a friend of mine who knows Gordon Brown personally. Apparently he's a very warm, kind man in private.

You won't find me defending much about New Labour, but had Gordon called an election within six weeks of becoming PM, he'd pretty much have been guaranteed victory.

When they are not scrabbling for power a lot of the elder statesman do come across a lot better - John Major, William Hague spring to mind, though your views may vary. They seem a bit more rational, capable of seeing the bigger picture.

Shame they are all dicks when actually in power.

Except for Blair - he's still a cock.

That was a bit of often quoted silliness.

@Saxon agreed, also the dignity he showed when leaving office showed his character. However as above he did cut my pension by 25% and his management if the aftermath of the crises was a disaster 😐

Except for Blair - he's still a cock.

^ This x1 million.

I think he's very clever, he's just go no charisma, and is either terrible at explaining his decisions, or no-one listens.

Regarding the gold sell off, i read this a while back. No idea if it's true, but it seems to explain a few things
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-07-10/gordon-brown-sold-britain%E2%80%99s-gold-artificially-low-prices-bail-out-large-ameri

Basically banks had shorted gold to the extent it threatened financial stability, so Gordon Brown sold Britains gold as cheaply as possible, by announcing the sale in advance, and by selling it at auction.

I think Vince Cable called it beforehand, as did many financial operators / commentators..

If you keep saying something eventually it will happen. Give it a few billion years and Pigs will probably evolve wings and fly. It doesn't mean predicting it makes the predictor a genius.

Even if he had 'called it', it would still have happened, it started in the US where there was even less regulation, and mortgages are given on the house not to the person, so if you get into negative equity you just hand the keys back and it's no longer your problem. Hence why whole neighborhoods have been abandoned, once prices drop it's much easier to just cut your losses and walk.

In fact calling it would probably have caused it to happen, regulation at that point would just have lead to less credit, and we'd all be here saying it's Browns fault for over regulating the banks and cutting off credit to businesses.

I'm not a fanboy or anything, but I struggled to understand the hatred he seemed to attract from some quarters.

But I'd rather have dour and awkward politicians than smarmy pricks like Blair or Cameron.

Or the gold.

Oh yes - the gold! Our Gold!

Maybe you should read up on why he sold it..?

I don't find Brown as offensive as many politicians, he had to live in the shadow of Blair for many years which must of driven him batshit crazy at times.

He is painted as a buffoon by the Murdoch/ right wing press, what a surprise.

I know a lot of people who lived high on the hog under Blair when he was chancellor, they weren't complaining about his or his policies then.

For the idiots among us who just seem unable to grasp this simple fact, the Labour party did not cause the economic crisis !!! The people who did are still out there and still screwing about.

I do have some time for him, he just seemed crushed by a decade and a half of both Government and scrapping with Blair's crew. He seems much happier now.

He made some decisions which, with the information available at the time were totally sensible but look bad with hindsight but I do feel that the concerns of the wider public were central to what he was tying to do unlike the current batch of smarmy, smug backstabbers who just want to run everything down so they can sell it of to their chums. (See the Post office for details, the NHS is work in progress)

Flawed? definitely, but a conviction politician who survived a very long time at the top with nary a whif of real scandal or corruption being aimed at him and I can respect him for that.

his management if the aftermath of the crises was a disaster

I'm not sure this is at all true. His actions are generally credited with helping the UK avoid Iceland level disaster, and he was pretty important in coordinating G20 and European wide interventions.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/feb/06/gordon-brown-save-world-uk

Maybe you should read up on why he sold it..?

That was a bit of often quoted silliness.

It is not the quoting of it that was the silliness. Raiding the family savings account to throw cash about isn't wise. Selling a lot of something on an open market at that bottom of that market and announcing it in advance is pure ****tery.

I have a friend of mine who knows Gordon Brown personally. Apparently he's a very warm, kind man in private

Because he was a spendthrift **** who couldn't run a surplus during the biggest boom years we have ever seen?

Governments, and especially the Tories hardly ever run surpluses.

Gordon Brown - when he was chancellor ran a surplus for 4 consecutive years.

I think the previous Tory run was 2 years for surplus.

It is not the quoting of it that was the silliness. Raiding the family savings account to throw cash about isn't wise. Selling a lot of something on an open market at that bottom of that market and announcing it in advance is pure ****tery.

No it's not at all.

The argument would be to sell it off and replace with something that generates more money. Now I will agree timing was off - but he would've taken advice on that. And I refer you to the fact nobody knew it was going to increase and then decrease again, as with all investments.

I would actually argue the same for Cameron - why not sell it off at the top in 2011 if the opposition was so smart? It would've been a good sell-off and then if you want the family 'gold' so much it could've been bought back at a much lower price.

Gordon Brown - when he was chancellor ran a surplus for 4 consecutive years.

It still ended in near bankruptcy and shame though, didn't it. Just like every other Labour govt we've ever had.

don't tell me mike p - was GB also responsible for the financial crises in the US, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Argentina, Brazil.........?

It still ended in near bankruptcy and shame though, didn't it. Just like every other Labour govt we've ever had.

Tories spend and spend, they just spend differently to Labour. Hardly the economic shining example you think.

Mostly countries whose economies were also built on imprudent levels of debt (and corruption in the case of the S Americans). Try Australia or Canada.

Gordon Brown is the personification of of how media driven our opinions are.
He didn't do too much wrong as either Chancellor or PM, at least in the context of perpetuating a globalized Capitalist economic system.
Blair hated (feared) him and used his media pals to run him down. That same media then had an instant scapegoat when the shit hit the fan.
Now he's not part of the system any more, the media have no reason to tell us he's an idiot (which he definitely is not), hence the warmer light he's being cast in.

Unfortunately, he'll have to wait for the revisionists before he can expect any credit...

No it wasn't! [b]He[/b] shouldn't have sold the reserves to begin with

It was a Treasury Plan (civil service) their logic was, we held too much in a volatile commodity. the price of which was far too unpredictable. The Sale generated about 11billion (but cost us in adjusted prices about 3billion) we still have over 300 tonnes in reserve. Plus just for balance, it we're going to criticize him for the gold sell off, then we have to applaud the 3G auction sell off, which generated 22 billion and the money went straight to paying off debt.

so in balance mild fail on gold, massive win on 3G...we (the public) came out alright.

Australia, certainly, and to a lesser extent Canada have reaped the benefits of an unprecedented commodities boom which protected them from the 2008 GFC

The UK hasn't suffered anywhere near as much as the other countries that I mentioned.

It's a myth that only Labour govts mismanage the economy. You're letting yourself down by perpetuating such a simplistic view of UK politics.

Governments, and especially the Tories hardly ever run surpluses.

Gordon Brown - when he was chancellor ran a surplus for 4 consecutive years.

wrecker - Member

No it wasn't! He shouldn't have sold the reserves to begin with, never mind the prices AND it was still at it's lowest for 20 years before!

They announced the sale in advance to drive down the price.

It helped tremendously for those who were short on gold at the time though, so that's cool. 8)

[url= http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-07-10/gordon-brown-sold-britain%E2%80%99s-gold-artificially-low-prices-bail-out-large-ameri ]http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-07-10/gordon-brown-sold-britain%E2%80%99s-gold-artificially-low-prices-bail-out-large-ameri[/url]