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Obviously a Thomas the tank engine fan Mr Brown.
[i]Gordon is the senior member of the engine family, the fastest and most powerful engine on the rails. He's extremely proud and inclined to boast. He's good-hearted, always willing to use his superior strength to help smaller engines out of trouble.[/i]
J[i]ames is a medium sized engine. He likes to think of himself as a really splendid engine. This can occasionally lead to grandiose ideas about the sort of work suitable for such a noble creature, which invariably lands James in trouble. James is a mixed traffic engine, which means he can pull both passenger coaches and freight cars.[/i]
Maybe its because Gideon is a daft name?
Don't posh people always give boys daft names ?
What's your first name Flashheart ? 😉
Wot, like James.
Leonard James Callaghan. James Gordon Brown.
I'm putting money on Tarquin Meredith Flashheart..
(plus some more middle names.. probably three more)
Rightplacerighttime, I wuz being ironic (hence the quote marks)
I happen to think that it IS in the national interest to keep farmers in a job, and miners too for that matter...
I'm putting money on Tarquin Meredith Flashheart..
😀 ......actually I happen to know Flashheart's first name. And yes it is posh - very posh in fact some would say, but not actually daft. At least I hope not, as it happens to be my middle name ! Although in my defence I wasn't given it because it appeals to the English aristocracy (which it clearly does), I was named after a famous general which my father served under - and he wasn't British. Mind you, I reckon it's well cool in it's Spanish form.
Get someone in who knows how to make money/run a business FFS.
Hora, you are a true Child Of Thatcher....
Edukator - you show how little you know by asserting this
Edukator - Member
I stand by my original assertion that inflation and currency instability are far greater threats than unemployment and Thatchers decision to fight inflation was the right one - as proved by the improving economic fortunes of Britain over the period 1979 to 1997. John Major handed over Britain's economy to Blair in fine form - look what Labour have done, again.
Unsder the tories the economy was devasted - years of declining output and stagflation and the wasting of the north sea oil money on paying for the millions of unemployed.
the damage done and the missed opportunities can never be repaired. Norway got rich on the back of the oil money and invested it for the peoples future. thatcher wasted ours on paying benefits. without the oil money the economy would have collapsed totally. As it was it was virtually destroyed.
Really - you have now lost any credibility you have had. Remeber black wednesday? Remembner high inflation high interst rates and simultaneous falling GDP?
"*You may know him as Gordon. Odd that. No one ever makes anything of the fact he has chosen Gordon over James, yet you dull Guardian readers never shut up about Osborne using George over Gideon. Why is that, I wonder? Something to do with class and inverted snobbery perhaps? No, of course not...... "
Can I say, I'm a dull Guardian reader and I had no idea George Osborne's given name is Gideon til you mentioned it
The reason people laugh at Osbourne is that he stopped using gideon to try not to look so posh. As have others of the tories changed their used name to avoid looking so posh although some have refused. there is no particular difference in how James or Gordon are seen.
Conservative candidates are under pressure to drop aristocratic-sounding names to play down the blue-blooded image of David Cameron’s party, it was claimed last night.
The Conservative leader, who wears his Old Etonian background lightly and is known as Dave by friends, asked one candidate, Annunziata Rees-Mogg, to change her double-barrelled name to Nancy Mogg
However, other Tory candidates have anticipated ‘Dave’s De-toff’. Simon Radford-Kirby, candidate for trendy Brighton Kemptown, describes himself as plain Simon Kirby.
Fellow Tory Scott Seaman-Digby switched to Scott Digby for his unsuccessful bid to become the Brighton Pavilion candidate
But aren't double barrelled names increasingly common due to women not necessarily taking the husbands name in marriage? No big deal nowadays IMHO.
Annunziata is quite a different story and Willy should be ashamed of himself ......... 😯
[i]Unsder the tories the economy was devasted - years of declining output and stagflation[/i]
That was Labour, "stagflation" was a term first employed by Conservative Iain Mcleod to describe what was happening under Labour when he was shadow chancellor in the 60s.
The conservatives have always had lousy economic numbers during the first few years of their mandates as the clear up the economic mess left by Labour. You can't congratulate Blair for the first two years of his mandate because he was riding on the result of years conservative good management. Thatcher was elected after the winter of discontent and it took a while to pick up the pieces.
Labour: tax busines more, introduce labour laws that are expensive for the employer, allow sabotage of the work place by a minority of communist fanatics, expand the public sector and pay people not to work.
Consevative: tax business less, limit union powers and favour democracy in the work place, reign in public spending and encourage people to work with measures such as the £1000 to start a buisiness under Thatcher.
That's why the economy does better under the conservatives. I believe that can be combined with measures to assure equality in education and health that I call caring capitalism so my sympathies would lie with the Liberals if I had a vote.
[i]Really - you have now lost any credibility you have had[/i] TJ in trouble and resorting to insult rather than argument, well I never.
Edukator
Are you Hora's intelligent brother? You are wasted in France m8, you should be writing speeches for Dave 8)
Dull Guardian readers, I am polished and shiny like a new penny.
Dont have an issue with Gideon changing his name, my dad was Francis Mervyn and always known as Merv. I have an issue with him being a buffoon 🙄
Likening our position to Norway is a bit daft there are only about 5 million Norges. We must have had that many unemployed. Also for good or for bad Norway is not in the common market.
>The reason people laugh at Osbourne is that he stopped using gideon to try not to look so posh. As have others of the tories changed their used name to avoid looking so posh although some have refused. there is no particular difference in how James or Gordon are seen.
=""He was a pupil at Westminster School and later studied at New College, Oxford, where he read Philosophy, Politics and Economics, and during which time he was elected as President of the Oxford Union. In later life, Benn attempted to remove public references to his private education from Who's Who; in the 1975 edition his entry stated "Education—still in progress". In the 1976 edition, almost all details of his biography were omitted save for his name, jobs as a Member of Parliament and as a Government Minister, and address; the publishers confirmed that Benn had sent back his draft entry with everything else struck through.[5] In the 1977 edition, Benn's entry disappeared entirely.[6] In October 1973 he announced on BBC Radio that he wished to be known as "Mr Tony Benn" and his book Speeches from 1974 is credited to 'Tony Benn'.
Yes, one Anthony Neil Wedgwood Benn , formerly 2nd Viscount Stansgate.
The point about norway is that they had a large share in the north sea oil. during the 80s they spent their north sea oil on infrastructure and invested it for the future. We had / have more of the oil. Our oil bonanza was spent on paying people to do nothing for political dogma rather than supporting industry.
Without the oil money to spend in the 80s and selling off the assets of the country there would have been no "thatcher revolution" This money was wasted. We have nothing to show for it. we don't own our own infrastructure any more and we don't make stuff. Keeping the value of the pound artificially high thru the 80s ruined our industry.
The thacherite years ruined our economy. The worst crime tho was the waste of the oil money
I remember being forced to drink milk out of little bottles with a straw in that had sat around in the sun all morning, this would have been mid to late 70s.Still can't face milk without adding Nesquik.
+1. Tho' eventually I made sure i was milk monitor and ensured my share was redistributed to people that wanted seconds.
I can't believe that people think that somehow one party or another will be able to steer the UK in an opposite direction to the ebbs and flows of the global economy that we are now, like it or not, wholly part of. There is little economic autonomy now left to national governments - most of it relates to how best they will protect the most vulnerable members of society. And here the choice is stark - Labour will try and the Conservatives won't try. Sadly, people are increasingly blind to the social contract (let alone old fashioned shit like communities and mutual support) and are only concerned with self-preservation and their own immediate gratification.
On an unrelated note: is Flasheart genuinely posh? I always thought he was an 80s arriviste. Standards have truly slipped! 😉
Anthony Neil Wedgwood Benn , formerly 2nd Viscount Stansgate.
Is this supposed to be a counter argument?
I think the point is being made that the current bunch of Tories are attempting a bit of surface polish (or scuffing). Tony Benn on the other hand has always appeared to me (despite whatever else he may be) to be sincere in his beliefs.
It's a bit like comparing a post-op transexual with a bunch of drag queens.
Sadly, people are increasingly blind to the social contract (let alone old fashioned shit like communities and mutual support) and are only concerned with self-preservation and their own immediate gratification.
Yup 🙁
Another legacy of Thatcher.
>Is this supposed to be a counter argument?
TJ was asserting that Tories were changing their names so as not to appear "posh". Just pointing out that it cuts both ways, I agree completely that Tony Benn is sincere in his beliefs but that's nothing to do with the point I was making 🙂
Personally I"m not sure that there is any value in looking to the financial records of parties of 20 years ago as some indicator of future success.
The world has changed beyond recognition and so have the personalities making the decisions. +1 HeathenWoods for pointing out that globalisation makes everything different, but also the internet, dwindling resources, population growth AND changing aspirations. 20 years ago many people didn't even have a car and only expected the NHS to treat them for serious conditions. Now, people are up in arms about marginal increases in fuel prices and their access to multiple IVF cycles and esoteric cancer drugs.
If the economic successes and failures of yesterday meant anything then Beijing would still be full of people on bicycles, IBM would be the biggest company in the world, Detroit would still be a functioning city and Iceland would be a place where cod comes from.
Paraphrasing the words of James Brown "Come on, like a sex machine"... no no, sorry not that James Brown (anyone worked out why he uses Gordon yet?)... I meant to say "GET REAL"
And BTW, I'll be voting Lib Dem.
On the tag "is hora really that thick"? No. I went to University and I didn't leave with 15grand of debt+.
If I was 18 now though I wouldn't be able to afford to go.
Go figure. Idiot.
TJ was asserting that Tories were changing their names so as not to appear "posh". Just pointing out that it cuts both ways, I agree completely that Tony Benn is sincere in his beliefs but that's nothing to do with the point I was making
And TJ is right, and you miss the point. The Tories want to [b]appear[/b] not to be posh. Tony Benn wanted to [b]actually[/b] not be posh. Otherwise he'd have been Tony Benn of the Conservative party.
Sorry double post (deleted)
Sorry mistaken post (ammended)
If I was 18 now though I wouldn't be able to afford to go.
But I'm sure you would have been ralaxed about that, taking life as it comes? 🙂
Ah yes. Probably would have gone over to the Balkans...
Eisenhower?I was named after a famous general which my father served under - and he wasn't British.
Sadly, people are increasingly blind to the social contract (let alone old fashioned shit like communities and mutual support) and are only concerned with self-preservation and their own immediate gratification.Yup
Another legacy of Thatcher.
Really? Most of the people I meet with that sort of attitude are as far removed from Thatcherism as it is possible to get. Are you really saying that it was entirely her fault or simply that she created the environment for an inherently greedy population to pursue their non-altruistic goals unchecked?
Ah yes. Probably would have gone over to the Balkans...
It was pretty good actually mate.
I was raised in a very working class family, but you know what i can't stand the Labour party.
People moan about the Tory party and the fact that they look after their own, you don't think Labour do or did that? They hide behind the social fairness card and i don't believe a word of it. My wife and i work very hard, ask for nothing from the state other than a safe and clean place to live and all i seem to see is my tax revenues and others like me being given away to 'less fortunate' people than us, how is that fair?
I don't see any issue in making people stand on their own two feet, and i wonder which party will try to make that happen, certainly not labour.
TJ, to think that Labour would not have wasted billions of £ if they were in power in the Thatcher years is a joke. The unions would have run riot and got bigger and bigger and choked the economy, maybe less so than the wasted oil money, but at least we dont have hugely powerful unions throwing their weight around.
The reason people laugh at Osbourne is that he stopped using gideon to try not to look so posh. As have others of the tories changed their used name to avoid looking so posh although some have refused. there is no particular difference in how James or Gordon are seen.
Given he changed his name at 13, that shows a remarkable prescience.
80s arriviste, if Flash is the man I think he is he was still at school in the 80s and has suffered periods of unemployment despite being soemthing of a specialist in jobs, too posh to claim the dole though.
I just love Browns manifesto (describing what he'll do- which are pretty basic ideas)...
why haven't you already done this or doing this now?!
Annunziata Rees-Mogg:
[img] 
[/img]
Heh! I'd giver her both barrels....
I'm sorry; that was crass and insulting, and there was absolutely no need for it. It won't happen again. 😳
ask for nothing from the state other than a safe and clean place to live
But don't forget sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, and fresh-water.
I don't see any issue in making people stand on their own two feet
Not everyone is capable of this tho'. What do you want to do with them? Workhouses? Begging? Take away social security and which safety net do you want to use? Or do you just let people fall? Seriously, I'd like to know because, in my eternal optimism, I'd love to believe that there is no one in this country who'd just leave people to rot.
I also smile to myself who say they come from post WWII working class backgrounds and don't see how the welfare state (healthcare and education) might just have contributed to their upward mobility. But then I guess actual history doesn't matter if you're sitting pretty now and just want the biggest slice of the pie you can get.
all i seem to see is my tax revenues and others like me being given away to 'less fortunate' people than us
Try looking harder.
yabba yabba. Can anyone sell me a road bike?
Irrespective of political leanings - this thread confirms one thing:
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The 80's Tory Gov't was the most divisive in living memory.
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There's no middle ground on this thread - no posters saying "it wasn't too bad", or "could have been better". Some have positive memories and respect the legacy of "improved" (ie forced) industrial relations, but many have very negative and deeply bitter memories...
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Quite telling I think
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Someone above posted about bitter old men - get over it and on with you lives... As someone who "came of age" in the mid 80s I strongly refute that assertion. When it comes to Thatcher's Govt I am still an angry young man.
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And relevence for the election - I hope that the electorate will be able to discern the true values of each party and choose accordingly.
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If they choose Red, they know what to expect - more of the same with added austerity.
If they choose Blue - do they know what values they are signing up to?
If they choose Orange - hopefully there will be the chance to reform the whole shoddy system...
Someone above posted about bitter old men - get over it and on with you lives
it was the same person who said
yabba yabba. Can anyone sell me a road bike?
That double quote-post doesnt show an example of a contrast though.
On the tag "is hora really that thick"? No. I went to University and I didn't leave with 15grand of debt+.
Lucky you.
You do have a tendency to post very ignorant, blinkered opinions on subjects you clearly know bugger all about, though, and subsequently make yourself look a plonker. As you've done here. Yet again.
What did you study at University? I'll wager it wasn't politics, history, sociology, etc...
"That double quote-post doesnt show an example of a contrast though."
It does, however, show that without doubt, you are the end of a bell.
It wasn't so much what you said, as when you said it.