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I was born in '62.
As I was approaching school leaving age, we were constantly warned that unemployment was almost 1 million and we would have to do well in our exams if we wanted a job.
Then came 1979 and the "Labour isn't working" posters.
Within a couple of years, the Conservatives had unemployment up to 4 million.
Big employers like Cadbury closing is a major news story now.
I can remember a feature on the end of the TV news every night listing all the job losses. Every day there were factories and businesses closing with the loss of hundreds or thousands of jobs.
Trying to claim the Brixton and Handsworth riots were "race" riots.
Raising funds by selling off nationalised industries.
Nationalisation of industries where free competition was possible has benefitted us all. However, monopolies such as water would have best remained public IMO as a public monopoly is no less efficient than a private monopoly but more expensive as there are share holders to pay. Would you really go back to a monopoly telephone provider?
Get a grip, get out on your bikes and stop arguing over history.
I love the way, in the face of overwhelming damning testimony of real experiences of life under the Tories, the best any Thatcherite apologist can come up with is 'oh let's forget about it all and just ride our bikes'. 😆
Pathetic. That the best you've got?
Since 1997 that has been to keep to an inflation target based on inflation figures provided by the government. How independant is that?
More independent than it used to be. And GB didn't have to do it did he? Must have been very tempting to hang onto that particular lever of control, but he didn't.
Would you really go back to a monopoly telephone provider?
We have some of the shittest and most expensive internets of any developed nation. Had the telecommunications infrastructure remained in public hands, the whole nation could now be benefitting from renting it out to all the different telecommunications companies, instead of one private company holding the rest to ransom. Fair competition? My arse. We could have had proper fibre optic cables all over by now. Instead, we have an increasing number of customers being squeezed onto ageing copper wire technology which is completely inadequate at supplying demand.
Blue thro and thro!
Funny that, I have a fibre optic Internet connection provided by a private company and the bill for that, HD TV, and unlimited telephone use is about a fifth of what I paid the state monopoly provider for telephone alone ten years back.
Mines being shut down as unecconomic, still millions of tonnes of high quality coal in the ground, better than the stuff they import- just to shaft the NUM really
Shipyards forced to compete for orders against foriegn subsidised yards- just to further shaft the workers really
The selling off, to her rich cronnies, the services of our country-pulling the wool over the eyes of the population by bunging them a couple of quid for 'their' shares
Giving people the right to buy council houses at vastly under-market value, without putting anything back into providing more social housing
etc
etc
etc
Funny that, I have a fibre optic Internet connection provided by a private company and the bill for that, HD TV, and unlimited telephone use is about a fifth of what I paid the state monopoly provider for telephone alone ten years back.
Where do you live? Not the UK, I'd wager...
I remember loads of riots in and around Birmigham and I remember wondering quite why I was considered the scum of the earth for growing up in a single parent family. (which reminds me of an old thread when I had a huge argument about this with somone or other....
"There's no such thing as society".
That summed her up for me.
Well the NUM needed shafting. It got pay back for imposing its political will on the country rather than fighting in the interest of its members. When you vote for a government you don't want or expect a union to dictate government policy (unless you voted Labour at the time in which case you knew you were voting for a trade union funded political party).
>You mean when we had North Sea Oil?
>I have to say that Thatcher had it easy
Did North Sea oil only come on stream in 1979 ? Or did the Labour government pre-Thatch have access to the oil money also ?
Did North Sea oil only come on stream in 1979 ?
It was a little before that but not much - it wasn't till the early 80s that it was coming ashore in enough quantity for us to be self sufficient
[Well the NUM needed shafting]
Yep couldn't agree more, unfortunately the working miners and their communities were caught in the power battle between Scargill & Thatcher. Much like the poor Iraqi's caught up in the chaos caused by Bush, Sadam & Blair.
Don't vote it only encourages the b'stards
You win your wager Talkemada. None of the 3G telephone network was installed by the monopoly state operator either here or in the UK AFAIK. Companies bid huge amounts of money for licences with clauses on the quality of infrastructure. The same public regulation of private providers could be applied to ISPs. However, it's competition that has brought prices down. I pay 35e/month for fibre optic which is only 5e more than ADSL from one of half a dozen providers.
I remember Black Wednesday, Poll Tax, The Riots in London, I witness the signing of the end of the mining strikes.
I cannot forget the intrest rates going sky high day after day
and The Tories had no idea how to control it or what to do.
Also Trever Howard screwed up the pensions and introduced private
pensions was the way forward and how many are about to suffer?
But also Gorden Brown has screwed up here too!!!
Also every time the Torie MPs got caught doing wrong, and you expect them to chuck them out of Parliment they do this Done Thing and kept them in.
Also the Tories sold most of our Assets for next to nothing.
The Tories sold off our social housing cleverly to control the working class people.
I also had a client who introduced the back to basics policy for the
Tories, but unknown to him what was going on And The Tories had taken
him to court but he had won. If it was not for Labour who had given him help
He had his phone bugged and was constantly followed.
Somehow, I can tell Grantway went to school in the Tory era...
>Also Trever Howard screwed up the pensions and introduced private
pensions
Yeah, but he ROCKED in Brief Encounter.
Look at Labours legacy. Its disgusting. expansion of the public sector to 60% of the working population, then theres the "we'll help the poor" by feeding complacency and idleness rather than tough love.
We are going to get 5 more years of this from them and then the Tories will have to pick up the pieces.
Don't get me wrong. I grew up in poverty. Poverty some of you have never known the likes of. However I, like many working men am aspirational. I want something better. As such I can't vote for a party that enriches itself whilst showing the ultimate incompetence.
Labour does not represent the working man. Never has. None of them have. However any honest hard working man wants something better for his children. Look alot of Asians for instance.
Therefore I look to the Labour legacy, £900,000,000,000 debt and growing.
We are all poor now.
Trevor Howard 😆
The bits that stand out for me (born in 1977 btw) are
-falklands
-miners
-poll tax
-poll tax riots
-Kenneth Baker
-Care In The Community Act
-Student grants phased out in favour of loans.
I didn't like drinking milk as a child and so remember it well and remember being not at all bothered about it. 🙂
My father in law worked from 16 to retirement for british gas/transco. He also loves/fundraises for etc trains and Vulcans (the plane that is). His three favourite things in life fairly well dismantled under conservative governments and still he looooooves them so. 😕
I'm too young, mainly I remember "kill the bill", being told that there was no chance at all the CJA would ever be used to suppress peaceful protest, then my mates being arrested under the powers in the act 24 hours after it was passed while peacfully protesting. Impressive stuff.
"Fuel prices is my current issue"
Oil is expensive. The tories massively increased fuel tax, for most years of the last labour government fuel taxation fell in real terms. Fact.
then theres the "we'll help the poor" by feeding complacency and idleness rather than tough love.
Or
By providing better health care, education and social support. Areas where Labour have performed better than the Tories.
Hora; you've not thought this through really, have you?
However I, like many working men am aspirational. I want something better. As such I can't vote for a party that enriches itself whilst showing the ultimate incompetence
So, you won't be voting Tory then? 😀
We are all poor now.
No we're not. We live in one of the most affluent countries on Earth, you numpty! Poor? I thought you said you knew what real poverty was? 🙄
They talk about terror laws being used as the basis for all sorts of arrests now but I can remember when the Tories [Trevor Howard again, I think 😉 ] ordered the police to break up peaceful protests using - long forgotten - Victorian laws to arrest people
'watching & besetting' - WTF?
>being told that there was no chance at all the CJA would ever be used to suppress peaceful protest, then my mates being arrested under the powers in the act 24 hours after it was passed while peacfully protesting. Impressive stuff.
You'll love Anti-terror legislation introduced under Labour then 🙂
>-Student grants phased out in favour of loans.
Yes, Labour implemented that one ( http://www.independent.co.uk/news/student-grants-and-free-tuition-to-end-next-year-1251578.html )
"Well the NUM needed shafting." Edukator, you're a teacher, what the **** do you know about the coal industry? Scargill may have had an overinflated ego, he may well have made the struggle personal due to his emnity of Thatcher, but you know what? He was right. And as an ex-pat, what gives you the right to hold forth about the state of the nation?
He's got French broadband. 🙁
"You'll love Anti-terror legislation introduced under Labour then"
Yep, exactly the same thing... Except that the anti-terror legislation is being abused, the CJA was designed to do the job it was used for from the ground up, but that's a trivial distinction.
left school, went on dole.
[url=
f3cking Thatcher[/url]
Nationalisation of industries where free competition was possible has benefitted us all. However, monopolies such as water would have best remained public IMO as a public monopoly is no less efficient than a private monopoly but more expensive as there are share holders to pay. Would you really go back to a monopoly telephone provider?
As said before, they still are a monopoly, but "free competition" has only benefited the shareholder and no one else. Aside from this, is it a good idea to have electricity in the hands of a French state owned company or the recent acquisition of a large chunk of rail and transport network bought by a German state owned company?
When you vote for a government you don't want or expect a union to dictate government policy (unless you voted Labour at the time in which case you knew you were voting for a trade union funded political party).
I'm trying to figure out whether it was bad to be voting for something that was union backed or what we have today where political parties are dictated to by businessmen.
To loosely quote US President Obama: "A free market was never meant to be a free license to take whatever you can get, however you can get it."
Which is one of the many legacies of Thatcherism.
Edukator, you're a teacher, what the **** do you know about the coal industry?
So only people who worked in the coal industry know about the coal industry? Is that what you're saying?
And what exactly was Scargill right about?
Sorry if this has already been mentioned but I haven't read every single post. Has anyone mentioned giving the "Argies" a damn good kicking.
And what exactly was Scargill right about
Scargill claimed early on that was an agenda to close the pits whether they were economical or not
This was denied by the gov
one of them was right
Scargill claimed early on that was an agenda to close the pits whether they were economical or not
He may well have been bang on the money with that one...
For those having a go at Thatch for closing the pits, a few minutes on the history section of the NUM website might be enlightening. Obviously they hate the Tories, but wait til you see the vitriol for Labour governments in the 50s 60s and 70s who closed uneconomic pits.
And besides, we'd have either closed a lot of pits or not signed Kyoto in the 90s anyway, think it through...
Sorry if this has already been mentioned but I haven't read every single post. Has anyone mentioned giving the "Argies" a damn good kicking.
Wrong. Tory govt in Mexico 86, Labour govt in Japan/Korea 02.
I know quite a lot about the coal industry, mainly from an economic point of view, so I know that economically viable pits were closed especially when you integrate the social cost of closing them. The majority of miners knew that too and were prepared to compromise their political ideals to save their jobs and communities. Only their leader who was not dependant on a job in the pits or a mining community stopped a compromise being reached. A case of a bourgeois communist sacrificing his comrades on the alter of his own ego and ideals. A secret ballot would have saved the industry.
Oh and I worked in the A-series engine plant in Longbridge in 78 so demarkation disputes, sabotage, the closed shop, restrictive practices, theft and plain idleness are things I do know about.
Edit: to sum up research at Aberystwyth it was Thatcher who closed the uneconomically viable pits and Scargill that closed the economically viable ones.
For those having a go at Thatch for closing the pits
it wasn't just the pits though, that was her personal crusade & she couldn't have given 2 figs how many lives she destroyed doing it - it had absolutely nothing to do with economics
no, it was every other manufacturing company that was hit that did the real damage across the vast parts of the country
She set out to destroy the working classes by any means she could
bring back maggie, be interseting to see what her party of the day would do now.
uplink - that's a view you often hear expressed, but I have to admit I struggle to comprehend it.
Why was she doing this, do you think? For what purpose?
For what purpose?
Political dogma
I still don't understand. What do you mean?
uplink - are you there?
"Wrong. Tory govt in Mexico 86, Labour govt in Japan/Korea 02."
Gold star!