theres a very fine line between a heat of the moment over reaction, and an opportunistic perv taking advantage of the situation.
One of the newspapers ran an article over the weekend with multiple evidenced incidents of him “handling” or kissing female sports or entertainment personalities. Seems he is well know for his cheap thrills based on his privileged position and had prior for citing “celebration” as an excuse.
Has anyone from the men’s team piped up yet?
Yes - the coach has as have all the regional federation presidents
Has anyone from the men’s team piped up yet?
A few have, but maybe this is an issue that doesn't need white knight sexism and mansplaining.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">I was considering more along the lines of where a manager/player lashes out in football – thus heat of the moment assault, but they’re not vilified forever for it. </span>
I'm not convinced the consequences for players who behave like neanderthals shouldn't be worse too. Not necessarily career ending - but increasingly our courts take into account the youth of offenders and the ability to rehabilitate/change - a 19yr old who goes OTT about losing a tackle and a 50 yr old who is thrusting his hips whilst clutching his balls in the stands and then shortly after is placing long unwanted kisses on his team is not simply a moment of immaturity.
Whilst equally inappropriate, it’s hardly the same circumstances, is it?
No I wouldnt be doing it in front of millions of people and setting an example to the nation. I also suspect I earn quite a bit less than he does. I think it is reasonable to expect well-paid high profile people to behave like decent human beings.
My point was more about trying people in the court of public opinion rather than on the specifics of their case and in particular about the stigma that can be associated with high profile cases involving high profile people who have not been proven to have done anything wrong, but which are damaged by it regardless of any outcome. I’m thinking Cliff Richard / Yewtree.
The world's media were watching. I'm not quite sure what proof you want to establish what he did. Its about as far from a Sir Cliff story as you can get. FWIW I am pretty strongly in the "names of accused should not normally be publicly reported" camp - but that doesn't mean people who do stupid stuff in public shouldn't be reported about. At the end of the day all football players, managers, chairmen, presidents etc are judged on the 'court of public opinion' for their performance on and off the pitch.
But why, then would the RSFA go to bat for him if it was so patently false and he has history?
He's the president of the RSFA. Presumably the rest of the board like the status quo, and totally misjudged the sentiment in Spain, and among female players.
I think you need to watch some long versions of the vid and read around the topic before futher winding people up and making more of a fool of yourself, Daffy.
How am I "winding people up"? In my first post I said it was inappropriate, in my first post I said I didn't know the back story or all the details, in my second post i questioned why RSFA had supported him - As usual, your're quick to insult and belittle people expressing an opinion and seeking answers - you're a real piece of work, "edukator".
Not even a little bit comparable, two males, no sexual assault element. A better comparison would be Chirac kissing Barthes on the head, but again two males and not on the lips.
My EXACT point was that there was no sexual assault in the former case. Both sexual and common assault have similar sentencing, both of the above occurred in similar, highly emotional, highly public circumstances, my point was that simply because this IS sexual assault and in public that it's being treated far differently despite the law. Admittedly, I don't know Spanish law, just UK law.
Anyway - since I'm apparently just "winding people up", I'll leave.
He’s the president of the RSFA. Presumably the rest of the board like the status quo, and totally misjudged the sentiment in Spain, and among female players.
When he stated - not once but 5 times - in the most macho, confrontational manner imaginable, that he would not resign, he was loudly applauded by them all
That tells you everything you need to know about who's side they're on
FWIW - I'm not arguing what he did was right - at no point have I said that in any way.
What I'm saying is that the consequences for someone in the limelight on a socially charged topic are going to be far more severe than, for example, if you'd kissed a colleague in emotional circumstances. Even you are saying that they should be held to higher standards, because of how much they earn? Why? Why is the law, not simply the law? Why must some pay more or be seen to fall further?
I'm not talking about this Spanish buffoon specifically, but in general.
This chap will now have to answer for other things, but what I'm saying is, at the start, when (as almost everyone in this thread seems to agree) he could've simply apologised and made good, is his original crime is now seen as so horrendous, so nationally appalling and somehow the embodiment of the rot in the system? I'm genuinely asking how we got to this point? If it's this bad now, surely it was this bad at the start? How is one individual (at least publicly) responsible for all of it? Is it simply because he was first, or because of the compounding aspects of the thing?
What I’m saying is that the consequences for someone in the limelight on a socially charged topic are going to be far more severe than, for example, if you’d kissed a colleague in emotional circumstances.
I would have been instantly sacked and quite possibly lost my registration. I think most folk would
A few have, but maybe this is an issue that doesn’t need white knight sexism and mansplaining.
Why are we even talking about it then? 🙂
More a question of solidarity really, otherwise the dinosaurs in the Spanish federation will continue to believe that they can carry on this way.
What I’m saying is that the consequences for someone in the limelight on a socially charged topic are going to be far more severe than, for example, if you’d kissed a colleague in emotional circumstances.
What do you think the consequences would be, if you grabbed a colleague in the office and kissed her full on the lips, in front of everyone else?
I would have been instantly sacked and quite possibly lost my registration. I think most folk would
Agreed and you'd probably be on the sex offenders register for 2 years, but that's where it would likely end. You'd do your time and pay for your crime, but is that true for someone in a more public position? Does the period ever end? Could you even get another job? Is this just a consequence of being famous?
I would lose my registration and never work as a nurse again.
Did anybody here actually watch the game and the ending?
He seemed to kiss and go way OTT with every Spanish player, so much so that I was thinking that it was very cringe worthy and wondering how he could possibly think his actions were normal.
What got me was when he picked the women up and started throwing them around.
Getting carried away with the circumstances is one thing but he crossed the line at least 10 times imho.
To do so without much thought to his actions suggests he thought nothing wrong of it - a judgement the majority of those watching seemingly don't share.
Personally, I don't like the notion that an apology at the time would have sufficed. He may have got carried away with the situation but, he behaved naturally (to him), which suggests a deeper rooted problem of acceptability.
Don't know where I'm going with this tbh , just thought his actions were awful and not at all professional or respectful.
Agreed twonks, it was yuck. It should be the whole team complaining. Imagine Prince William doing it!
As is always the way, the media and public frothing simply increases the fervour. It becomes less about the ladies who were accosted by this throbber and what they might want done, but more about everyone else's opinion on it.
It becomes a witch hunt the minute people see an opportunity to gain from it, be that politically, reputationally, ideologically or financially.
At this point the ladies are the last point of concern for most driving the conversation. And they seem to be the only ones in the whole debacle this is turning into acting with any class and perspective.
"I'm sorry, I made a mistake." doesn't translate into Spanish. It's not part of the culture here, especially if you're a man. Very proud people.
Lie, obfuscate, blame the other guy, double down, and then, if all else fails, hide behind your mother is the order of the day.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/luis-rubiales-mother-hunger-strike-church-b2401011.html
Imagine Prince William doing it!
Well he couldn't have, cos he wasn't there, and he's the President of the FA FFS. You can bet your life he'd have been there if the men's team was in the final. Sexism in football is not just a Spanish problem.
Personally, I don’t like the notion that an apology at the time would have sufficed.
I would say it depends on what the womens team thought about it. I would have expected even if let off with an apology it would be accompanied with a written warning/final chance.
I don't necessarily think an apology would or should have sufficed - just that it would have stopped all the coverage and allowed him to continue. Not that this would be right
IHN
Imagine Prince William doing it!
Well he couldn’t have, cos he wasn’t there, and he’s the President of the FA FFS. You can bet your life he’d have been there if the men’s team was in the final. Sexism in football is not just a Spanish problem.
Prior to this year I don't think it would ever have even come up in PW's "potential upcoming events" list. He was probably on holiday and/or had other things to do. Not saying the "job" isn't flexible and they probably should have been there but I can see why they wouldn't. Next time I'm sure it'll be different.
Back to the subject; I had no idea that Spain had such a deep seated problem, sounds like they're 20 years behind, well, us? I'm never quite sure where we stand at any given minute as things change but he definitely broke rule 1 in the first place and has gone full BoJo since. Actually that comparison shines a light on us that we can let such people get away with some things and not others depending on the "mood" of the media.
It needs to be pointed out again that this isn't an isolated one off case, and there's been an ongoing problem for some years with how the womens team are treated .
So if you want an analogy , not only have you kissed a colleague on the lips without asking, you've humiliated them in meetings for a few years, treated them like halfwits and sacked anyone who won't let you feel them up.. Oddly enough they don't have too much sympathy even if your mum still loves you.
Did anybody here actually watch the game and the ending?
He seemed to kiss and go way OTT with every Spanish player, so much so that I was thinking that it was very cringe worthy and wondering how he could possibly think his actions were normal.
Wasn't just the players, the woman in the red suit got guided around by his hands like a pet.
Prior to this year I don’t think it would ever have even come up in PW’s “potential upcoming events” list.
Err, it bloody well should have been. Did you miss us winning the Euro's last year and being one of the favourites for a while? Not to mention reaching multiple tournament semi-finals over the last decade.
I wasn't aware of his previous form for this so I take back what I said earlier.
Sounds more the the straw that broke the camels back and I agree he should be made an example of now.
Or a murky pit of sexism and mysogeny is going to be cleaned up. a huge boost for womens football if parents think their kids will be safer now
Sounds good, if Spain hasn't had a huge issue with racism over and over again, and corruption over and over again, like the previous post i made, i can't see them doing much in the long run, there may be short term hits, but i doubt longer term much will be done, especially the more right Spain goes, it'll only feed their arguments over the next few years.
It just belittles all the work the women's game has done in the last few years, this one incident has people talking more about it than the actual competition, could you ever imagine that happening in the men's game?
How you think exposing sexism and misogyny works to the detriment of the womens game is a bad thing and why you do not place the blame for the distraction firmly where it lies with the groper is beyond me
should she have just been a compliant little woman and accepted being assaulted?
i can’t see them doing much in the long run
I've been in and out of Spain for 40 years and I've seen a slow change for the better, the same goes for the other places I spend time, France and Germany. Even the UK 🙂 Even this forum. 😉
Spain was doing pretty well on the feminicides with specific legislation and a significant decline to below UK figures. Then the Covid period was something of a disaster (France too) and the media have responded. The kiss came at just the right or wrong time.
Anyhow, the highlights without the kiss for anyone who likes good football:
How you think exposing sexism and misogyny works to the detriment of the womens game is a bad thing and why you do not place the blame for the distraction firmly where it lies with the groper is beyond me
should she have just been a compliant little woman and accepted being assaulted?
I didn't say any of that, as per my earlier post and last post, you're just sensationalising responses now, as stated for the third time now, Spain has had historical issues with many things, from racism, through to sexism, the same outcome happens, it gets lots of press, a sacrifice is provided, then we're back at the same problem, all i'm stating is realism for the way it'll be treated, especially now Spain is veering towards the right wing.
Rubiales and Vilda will pretty much be out of jobs, but i doubt the boys club will keep them out in the cold for long, the Spanish players have basically had their career defining moment marginalised and made pretty much worthless now, a moment that should have grown the women's game in Spain (and elsewhere) may now do the opposite, and that's before any of the usual retributions happen.
Its not just a Spanish thing. Remember that it wasn't too long back that the head of FIFA was saying that the way to make the women's game more popular was for them to play in the same kit as the beach volleyball. When that corrupt dinosaur was finally dislodged, kicking and screaming, from the top of the games governing body, he was replaced by this liberal visionary with his inclusive, progressive views....
Ladies and gentlemen, the head of world football. Pick the bones out of that twoddle
If anyone is even remotely surprised by any of this, then I'd suggest watching FIFA Uncovered on Netflix. Its a staggering documentary revealing the absolutely corrupt carry-on at the top of the international game. A fish rots from the head down. This kind of thing is neither here nor there when it comes to the scandals in the organisations involved in international football. Its no wonder this guy thinks he's untouchable. They all do. And they are ALL stale, pale and male...
Spain has had historical issues with many things, from racism, through to sexism, the same outcome happens, it gets lots of press, a sacrifice is provided, then we’re back at the same problem, all i’m stating is realism for the way it’ll be treated, especially now Spain is veering towards the right wing.
Now replace the word "Spain" with "England" and see how it reads, perfectly. Further right than Rishi? Nope.
Your post is borderline racist, argee, sure there are historical issues, both Spain and Britain are male dominated post-colonial societies but to say nothing has changed and nothing will change (when in reality it has and is) is a slur. The Spanish are as capable of change as you are.
Thinking about it only Spain is post-colonial, Britain still has 14 overseas territories including Gibralta.
Take a trip to Spain, visit the country (edit: not just a British gheto in Torremolinos), meet the people, you might just find it's more advanced than where you come from in many repsects.
https://twitter.com/marisabelrr1/status/1695136611883725191?s=46&t=-aGBgTY3GsGzh4xLBsB6ZA
“Grandma, tell me about how your team won the World Cup,” read an illustration posted on social media by La Roja’s Misa Rodríguez on Friday. The grandmother answers: “We didn’t just win the World Cup, little one. We won so much more.”
Here’s hoping.
Yes, you have to be pretty careful when stereotyping an entire nation.
I know some lovely Spaniards as well as some total throbbers.
Same as any other demographic really.
They've recently really tightened up the laws around dog ownership for example.
Also getting your car 'MOT'd'..
The testing centers are all council /government run and have vo vested interest in failing your car and selling you some parts you don't need.
That's just an example of some things they do a lot better than the UK or are working to do better.
If he doesn’t his career, possibly his life is ruined – because of an inappropriate act in the heat of the moment.
Isn't making quick decisions in the heat of the moment what football is all about? Sometimes you're Maradona, sometimes you're Gareth Southgate...
But the bigger problem with this "people get cancelled for one mistake these days" argument is that it just doesn't happen for these guys. It's never just one mistake, and they don't get cancelled. Weinstein was at it for 20 years - Crispin Odey for longer - and then it needed 500 cross-corroborated eyewitnesses and audio tape to get them. Even here the guy was trying to wiggle out of it even though literally the whole things is on video!!!
it has all the hallmarking of a witch hunt.
Do you know what a witch hunt is?
Now replace the word “Spain” with “England” and see how it reads, perfectly. Further right than Rishi? Nope.
Your post is borderline racist, argee, sure there are historical issues, both Spain and Britain are male dominated post-colonial societies but to say nothing has changed and nothing will change (when in reality it has and is) is a slur. The Spanish are as capable of change as you are.
What are you on about, i'm on about their football and their federation, every season there is at least one horrific racist incident in Spain, there's the usual 'punishment', then nothing done until the next big incident, you hear it and see it at their games on TV, for all their failings, the English federation come down a hell of a lot harder, and their clubs as well.
Thinking about it only Spain is post-colonial
Morocco disagrees.
True I've been through that enclave, it's a bit like having UK customs in Calais.
What are you on about, i’m on about their football and their federation
Including the words "football" and "federation" in your post would have helped make that clear. It wouldn't have changed my reply anyhow though I might have posted the first google results
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54453958
My point stands it's not a uniquely Spanish issue and you could replace "Spain" with almost any other country name that also has a far right government which was also one of your points.
Take a trip to Spain, visit the country (edit: not just a British gheto in Torremolinos), meet the people, you might just find it’s more advanced than where you come from in many repsects.
You're not wrong, their drivers are better than the French around cyclists!
What are you on about, i’m on about their football and their federation,
Really?
Sounds good, if Spain hasn’t had a huge issue with racism over and over again, and corruption over and over again, like the previous post i made, i can’t see them doing much in the long run
It's a bit of an eye-opener hearing the mouth-breathers on the radio phone-ins basically arguing that a woman doesn't have the right to withhold consent from being kissed, it's just something they'll have to put up with if a man wants to do it to them.
I mean, it's always been obvious that such people exist, but surely they didn't use to get such a lot of air-time.
In the original post earlier, was meaning the likes of the Vinicius Jr and so on, i've seen teams walk off the pitch in La liga due to it in recent years, and the usual derogatory stuff throughout, the Spanish football authorities have just paid lip service to it, as they'll do to this, big talk, little action.
So argee - do you think she should have just accepted being sexually assaulted?
You seem to be arguing against her making a complaint. What would you have had her do?
personally I think she should have slapped him.
The treatment of Vinicus jr by some fans is odious, of course that sort of racism never happens in the UK - of course it does!
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-48093032
https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/fan-banned-monkey-chants-326936
Classic pot kettle black.
Football has it's demons and no one country has a monopoly, Britain used to hold the high ground on the hooliganism front but eventually other nations, notably Russia, rose to the the challenge. The Hungarians have been doing pretty well on the racist chant front of late.
Sexism is something the whole of the sport has to work on and progress has/is being made which is why it's so important that the Spanish women's team stand their ground and Mr kiss gets shown the door.
personally I think she should have slapped him.
I think her response has been perfect, that's why she is being taken seriously and is supported by so many. Dignified and firm beats violence.
The whole governing body appears to be unhinged and have no grasp on reality.
This is totally normal for FAs and FIFA and sports governing bodies generally. There is a disproportionate number of chancers and weirdos and thickos at the top.